Play Calling

[yankeehater]

So I taped the Florida State/Clemson game and watched most of it last night. I recognize that both teams seem to have superior athletes and speed than ND does on Offense and they both have solid experienced QB's. The thing that struck me was the imagination of the play calling. You do not need super talent and a Senior QB to have good solid play calling. What I witnessed in that game is what I expected to see from the ND Offense in year 3 under Kelly. Can anyone also explain to me why we finally have a running style QB in Golson who would seem to fit what Kelly was looking for yet I am hard pressed to even remember a play that was called as a run for Golson.

I know it has been discussed in the past and we all thought it was the QB, but now we have one and it does not seem like they are using him the way at least I imagined. I think Golson struggled with the game and his emotions last night and to have him run and take a hit and get involved may have also settled him down because it was obvious what they were doing was not.

 

[ErieIrish13]

I've been wondering/thinking the same thing. I expected a high-flying no huddle Oregon-esque offense this year. Not the same execution, but something that looks similar

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Golson is a pass first QB. The running aspect of his game is crucial in terms of extending plays and rolling out. Denard's ability to torch defense's with designed runs is extremely rare and frankly, outright dangerous for your QB. Plus EG does not posses that running ability, nor does he posses the size of say, Cam Newton, who was able to run through LBs and CBs. Our boy is QB that can effectively escape the rush, pick up 3rd n shorts with his feet and hit any receiver, anywhere, with authority.

If Golson can calm down and find a comfort zone you will see more runs like his TD at MSU and a much smoother offense overall.

 

[Irishpinoy]

Been wondering about the same thing too. Is Kelly's offense so complicated that players are not grasping it on year 3.

 

[me9rob]

So I taped the Florida State/Clemson game and watched most of it last night. I recognize that both teams seem to have superior athletes and speed than ND does on Offense and they both have solid experienced QB's. The thing that struck me was the imagination of the play calling. You do not need super talent and a Senior QB to have good solid play calling. What I witnessed in that game is what I expected to see from the ND Offense in year 3 under Kelly. Can anyone also explain to me why we finally have a running style QB in Golson who would seem to fit what Kelly was looking for yet I am hard pressed to even remember a play that was called as a run for Golson.

I know it has been discussed in the past and we all thought it was the QB, but now we have one and it does not seem like they are using him the way at least I imagined. I think Golson struggled with the game and his emotions last night and to have him run and take a hit and get involved may have also settled him down because it was obvious what they were doing was not.

I don't how ND fans feel about this, but I always felt this was a misconception. Coach Kelly seems to do more with Pocket Passers than he does Dual Threats. I know he's had QB's like Dan LeFevour and Zach Collaros who have done well in his system, but I feel as though what he really wants is a pocket passer with accuracy to stretch the field. Not a dual threat so that he can run an Oregon-type offense. And because of this, it makes sense that his sophomore QB with only 4 games playing experience would struggle at times, because he needs to actually make reads and progressions as opposed to a running QB who can rely on straight up raw athleticism. I think that once Golson gets used to the reads and gets more accurate with his passes then he should be very deadly in the offense as a pocket passer and not necessarily a Michael Vick, Pat White etc. type QB.

 

[BeatSC]

If he isn't going to let him run the read option or bootleg once in a while why is he even in there.

 

[chubler]

Kelly is looking for a qb who runs more in the style of Aaron Rodgers, not Mike Vick. Run to extend plays, run when lanes open up and no one is open, but always pass first. The "running" part of running quarterback in Kelly's ideal system mostly occurs when a play breaks down.

 

[irishog77]

Why did people assume ND would be a read option or Oregon-like offensive team???

Also, thanks to our resident Trojan for learnin' some posters on here about QB's.

 

[Irish4Life09]

Golson is a pass first QB. The running aspect of his game is crucial in terms of extending plays and rolling out. Denard's ability to torch defense's with designed runs is extremely rare and frankly, outright dangerous for your QB. Plus EG does not posses that running ability, nor does he posses the size of say, Cam Newton, who was able to run through LBs and CBs. Our boy is QB that can effectively escape the rush, pick up 3rd n shorts with his feet and hit any receiver, anywhere, with authority.

If Golson can calm down and find a comfort zone you will see more runs like his TD at MSU and a much smoother offense overall.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but Golson hasn't been able to hit a barn-door all season so far.His accuracy has been terrible.He puts a good zip on it, but can't hit anybody.

 

[NDhoosier]

Why did people assume ND would be a read option or Oregon-like offensive team???

For some reason, people have that in their heads... Notre Dame is a different team than Oregon, they do not have the same personnel. We pass more than Oregon and we dont use or need to use a super hurry up offense.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Lord-luva-duck, Coach can't engage in "imaginative play-calling" with mediocre or erratic-functioning quarterbacks. You can cover anything else and "imaginatively call plays", but if the guy pulling the trigger is malfunctioning serious percentages of the time, you just have to do what you can to survive until he "gets it". I think [hope] Golson will get it if we all just settle back and wait a bit for it, ... and let Coach continue to pull enough rabbits out of his hat [or as the "popular" saying goes now: make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t], and lets us squeeze out ballgames.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I am still trying to make a general understanding of some of these threads; now this one. The play calling that coach Kelly made, which includes all his coaches...... someone please remind me in case I am imagining things, or have been in a coma.... aren't we 4-0? Is a fan-base really quizzing a staff that is on a winning streak and is 4-0 for the first time in a DECADE???!!!???

oh.... it must be me.....

 

[irishog77]

For some reason, people have that in their heads... Notre Dame is a different team than Oregon, they do not have the same personnel. We pass more than Oregon and we dont use or need to use a super hurry up offense.

Yep.

Been wondering about the same thing too. Is Kelly's offense so complicated that players are not grasping it on year 3.

You may be onto something. Look at Oregon (just as an example here for QB's, NOT that ND should be playing like them...as some people want to believe)-- Massoli(sp?) gets kicked out, Thomas steps in and has the offense smokin' (even going to the NC game). Thomas leaves, and a RS frosh steps in and the offense doesn't seem to skip a beat.

I think everybody can accept Rees' limitations as a QB, but wether it's been Crist, Rees, or Golson, the offense has rarely looked "polished" in 2 1/3 seasons so far under Kelly. Is it all the QB's fault? No. Does this mean the rest of this year and subsequent years will be similar? No, of course not. But maybe Irishpinoy is onto something about Kelly's offense? Or perhaps Bobby D was onto something in another thread when he questioned if ND/Kelly might be better off hiring a true QB coach? I think it's at least worth pondering or discussing.

 

[irishog77]

I am still trying to make a general understanding of some of these threads; now this one. The play calling that coach Kelly made, which includes all his coaches...... someone please remind me in case I am imagining things, or have been in a coma.... aren't we 4-0? Is a fan-base really quizzing a staff that is on a winning streak and is 4-0 for the first time in a DECADE???!!!???

oh.... it must be me.....

Would it be fair to wonder if ND was 4-0, but winning games with scores like 48-45, that there MAY be some defensive problems?

I'm happy as hell to be 4-0 (especially with wins over MSU and michigan)! That doesn't mean the team doesn't have areas for improvement though. We're fans, this is a message board, and IE prides itself on having intelligent discussions. It's okay to be both happy about being 4-0...but also wonder/hope the offense may change a little.

 

[Whatever]

First, Golson is NOT a running quarterback. He can extend plays with his legs. Second, he is a first year starter with 4 years eligibility.

That said, I want to see more MSU play calling out of Kelley.

 

[GreatGolson]

If he isn't going to let him run the read option or bootleg once in a while why is he even in there.

A little blunt but my thoughts exactly, there were several opputunities where if EG had held on to the ball and taken off, or rolled out on PA we couldve scored

 

[Old Man Mike]

It can't be that complicated. It worked like gangbusters in Cincinnati. I will maintain for many years that Coach walked into this ND situation with ZERO properly functioning quarterbacks, manufactured a semi-functional one out of practically nothing but guts, and now is trying to find a talented one who won't shake in gametime.

He WILL find that guy. Hopefully Everett just has some toughening up to do, and the nerves will go and the animal will begin smoothly prowling about. If it's not Everett, we'll have to try again with Gunner. Anyone claiming that Kelly is screwing up the QB coaching should at least consider the possibility that Everett is his FIRST opportunity to try to get a rookie talented person up to speed at ND.

 

[Dizzyphil]

It can't be that complicated. It worked like gangbusters in Cincinnati. I will maintain for many years that Coach walked into this ND situation with ZERO properly functioning quarterbacks, manufactured a semi-functional one out of practically nothing but guts, and now is trying to find a talented one who won't shake in gametime.

He WILL find that guy. Hopefully Everett just has some toughening up to do, and the nerves will go and the animal will begin smoothly prowling about. If it's not Everett, we'll have to try again with Gunner. Anyone claiming that Kelly is screwing up the QB coaching should at least consider the possibility that Everett is his FIRST opportunity to try to get a rookie talented person up to speed at ND.

Thank you Old Man. Maybe I am not presenting my argument in a manner that is understandable. I am truly not understanding some of these 'play calling' arguments right now and maybe I am being a bit defensive of a staff and team that is 4-0 and being compared to totally different styles, teams, staff, and competition.

Diz

 

[A2forND]

anybody know why we didn't see more of C. Wood.....especially in the second half???

 

[BobD]

Yep.



You may be onto something. Look at Oregon (just as an example here for QB's, NOT that ND should be playing like them...as some people want to believe)-- Massoli(sp?) gets kicked out, Thomas steps in and has the offense smokin' (even going to the NC game). Thomas leaves, and a RS frosh steps in and the offense doesn't seem to skip a beat.

I think everybody can accept Rees' limitations as a QB, but wether it's been Crist, Rees, or Golson, the offense has rarely looked "polished" in 2 1/3 seasons so far under Kelly. Is it all the QB's fault? No. Does this mean the rest of this year and subsequent years will be similar? No, of course not. But maybe Irishpinoy is onto something about Kelly's offense? Or perhaps Bobby D was onto something in another thread when he questioned if ND/Kelly might be better off hiring a true QB coach? I think it's at least worth pondering or discussing.

Thanks for mentioning my comment.

I believe it would be a great move. I like our coaching staff A LOT and think we are building something very special. The one thing I think we're lacking and our guys need is a GREAT QB coach/mentor.

 

[irishog77]

It can't be that complicated. It worked like gangbusters in Cincinnati. I will maintain for many years that Coach walked into this ND situation with ZERO properly functioning quarterbacks, manufactured a semi-functional one out of practically nothing but guts, and now is trying to find a talented one who won't shake in gametime.

He WILL find that guy. Hopefully Everett just has some toughening up to do, and the nerves will go and the animal will begin smoothly prowling about. If it's not Everett, we'll have to try again with Gunner. Anyone claiming that Kelly is screwing up the QB coaching should at least consider the possibility that Everett is his FIRST opportunity to try to get a rookie talented person up to speed at ND.

I'm not claiming that BK is screwing up the QB coaching. But hell, even the egomaniacal Weis was ok with hiring Cutcliffe, and then Powlus. Since Cutcliffe was never able to coach we don't know what would've happened. Powlus? Meh. But it's tough to say exactly what the results would be with BK....seeing as it hasn't ever happened. Would Kelly and the team be better off with a QB coach? Maybe, maybe not.

And yeah, you're right about Kelly and Golson, OMM. But at the same time, EG was around for a spring, a summer, an entire season, another spring, and then another summer. Is he a rookie in terms of on field action? Obviously. Is he a rookie in terms of exposure to the team and BK's coaching? I'd say not so much. Either way, should we, as fans, be expecting him to light the world on fire? Probably not.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

You know what was an imaginative play call? Doing a halfback pass at the 10 yard line.

 

[EddytoNow]

We're 4-0, but not because of our offense. This year reminds me of Ty Willingham and the year we went 10-2. The defense has been opportunistic and has kept us in games, but by no stretch of the imagination has our offense been efficient or productive. Our best offensive weapon (at least until yesterday) has been Ben Turk who punted well enough to give us field position.

Coach Kelly (rightly or wrongly) decided to play not to lose after the second interception yesterday. With all the gifts provided by Denard Robinson, our offense should have scored at least 35-40 points. We all know that they put the ball in the end zone only once.

Quarterback play? Conservative play-calling? Playing not to lose? Lack of skill on offense? Complicated offense? Something is wrong, and we need to correct it to have any chance at a BCS Bowl game this season.

Until that happens, kudos to our defense and especially to the defensive backs that have had to grow up fast.

 

[PraetorianND]

While watching the Oregon game Mike Bellotti was commentating and he said that year 3 is about when everything starts coming together in terms of getting the spread to function correctly. it takes awhile to get personnel used to running the old system up to speed on the new system. He also said in some cases you need to get completely different personnel in there altogether. (all things we knew)

BK has been playing a TON of freshmen and sophomores. I think he is doing a good job of getting the gears working. While I too was screaming about play calling during the game, we did win. I have a feeling BK knows more about football than I do and I trust what he's doing. Obviously I want to see our offense score more points ala Cincy, but I can't complain about a W.

Also, in terms of building the program, BK is doing a fantastic job. The only thing I worry about is someone in need of a head coach snaking Diaco from us. I think he is perfect for this team and the guys really respond to and respect him. He's also a beastly recruiter.

Go get em Irish!

 

[Old Man Mike]

On the issue of hiring a new QB coach: my understanding is that the NCAA limits the number of on-field [practice or game] coaches that you can have on the payroll [if I'm wrong about that, which is certainly possible, then ignore the rest of this]. If so, then we are full up. So, since Kelly has been coaching QBs for a very long time now, who do we fire elsewhere on the staff "that we don't need" to shoehorn another coach in?

 

[NDinFL]

It can't be that complicated. It worked like gangbusters in Cincinnati. I will maintain for many years that Coach walked into this ND situation with ZERO properly functioning quarterbacks, manufactured a semi-functional one out of practically nothing but guts, and now is trying to find a talented one who won't shake in gametime.

He WILL find that guy. Hopefully Everett just has some toughening up to do, and the nerves will go and the animal will begin smoothly prowling about. If it's not Everett, we'll have to try again with Gunner. Anyone claiming that Kelly is screwing up the QB coaching should at least consider the possibility that Everett is his FIRST opportunity to try to get a rookie talented person up to speed at ND.

Did OMM just drop a "gangbusters" on us?

 

[Cogs]

With how bad Kelly and our QB's are at getting the play in quickly, we could never run the Oregon no huddle offense.

 

[irishfanjho15]

4-0

 

[Downinthebend]

4-0

4-0?

 

[Bluto]

If he isn't going to let him run the read option or bootleg once in a while why is he even in there.

Golson has run the read option a couple times. He has opted to hand it off every single time. Play calling is not the issue. The issue is the QB (Golson) missing guys who are open for six or otherwise and last night throwing it to the wrong team.