Paterno Statue Down/PSU Penalties?

[tko]

i hope the hammer comes down so hard tomorrow. this is glorious, Blue!

 

[woolybug25]

Any chance the Big 10 kicks them out?

There is supposedly suppose to be additional punishments handed down from the Big10 after the announcement. If there is indeed a large monetary punishment handed down from the NCAA (likely), then it would be hard for the BIG10 to do the same without dipping into their own coffers.

Furthermore, if the NCAA gives PSU a tv ban for more than one season, then every team in the BIG10 that was on PSU's schedule will losing one of their televised games.


So, if we are trying to read tea leaves here.... I think the possibility is there.

 

[tadman95]

Yea, it just seems like that would have to be discussed. Probably a hard decision to make but I could see it depending on how much PSU's football is degenerated. Lots of bad press to go along with it.

Should be interesting.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Do u think nd would be interested in any psu recruits?

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyCBS
Penn State will be fined b/w $30 million to $60 million, sources told @CBSSports NCAA could fine Penn State as much as $60M as part of Sandusky sanctions - CBSSports.com

 

[peoriairish]

This fine is not enough. PSU's endowment is in the billions. If it is just this fine, I will be less than satisfied.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I could see the B1G fining PSU the amount of TV revenue lost because of games not being televised, if that is one of the sanctions of course.

 

[irishroo]

Its a cautionary tale, for certain. You damn well better be careful whom you hitch your wagon to. The community didn't care, didn't take much time to figure out who they were hitching their wagon to, they saw wins and money and said, hey ok, we're on board. I'm not saying those folks deserved to be punished, but life isn't a fair thing. The NCAA isn't damaging the community, Paterno is the one damaging the community. If he'd been ethical to begin with, this wouldn't be happening. He's to blame, not the NCAA. They are just the messenger.

I don't think that's a fair argument. You're absolutely right that you need to be careful who you associate with, but in this particular case Paterno had everyone fooled. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

This fine is not enough. PSU's endowment is in the billions. If it is just this fine, I will be less than satisfied.

There will be civil lawsuits against Penn State.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Some of these penalties and sanctions may not even matter, if in fact the Department of Education finds that Penn State violated Title IX policies, via the Clery Act. This could lead to the suspension of federal student aid, which would effectively end the University.

The thought that the university had no part in this cover up is naive at best, and the NCAA is definitely within its rights to hand down any punishment they deem necessary.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I don't think that's a fair argument. You're absolutely right that you need to be careful who you associate with, but in this particular case Paterno had everyone fooled. Hindsight is 20/20.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean you don't have the pay the piper anyway.

They worshipped someone like a god, because he convinced them he was. But they still did the worshipping. And for that they will pay, and rightfully so, in my opinion.

 

[irishroo]

I guess the real question that the NCAA needs to figure out is how to punish an institution itself, and not simply the people that make it up. If anybody can give a satisfactory answer to that, I think we'll know what the NCAA really needs to do.

 

[Irishbounty28]

I guess the real question that the NCAA needs to figure out is how to punish an institution itself, and not simply the people that make it up. If anybody can give a satisfactory answer to that, I think we'll know what the NCAA really needs to do.

I feel the point is being missed here, because the people you are speaking of, make up the institution. These people are totally intertwined in the web that is Penn State as an institution, and therefore are somewhat culpable for the wrongdoings. To answer your question, there is not any possible way to punish the institution itself without punishing the people that make it up.

This is more than just a problem with the institution itself, but involves the entire culture around the community. Joe Paterno was the institution, and was perceived as too big to fail by the University officials. He was put up on this pedestal by the entire Penn State community. THEY, or the people you speak of, gave him the power he needed to cover up the horrifying actions of Jerry Sandusky.

 

[woolybug25]

Some of these penalties and sanctions may not even matter, if in fact the Department of Education finds that Penn State violated Title IX policies, via the Clery Act. This could lead to the suspension of federal student aid, which would effectively end the University.

The thought that the university had no part in this cover up is naive at best, and the NCAA is definitely within its rights to hand down any punishment they deem necessary.

When you first started championing this thought, I thought "that sounds good, but there is some kind of catch", but the more I research it... you are absolutely right on this. PSU certainly did enough to voilate the Clery Act how it's written, it all depends on how the DoE addresses it. Interesting to say the least.

 

[Zwidmanio]

I guess the real question that the NCAA needs to figure out is how to punish an institution itself, and not simply the people that make it up. If anybody can give a satisfactory answer to that, I think we'll know what the NCAA really needs to do.

I don't think the NCAA is out to punish "the people that make it up" but rather the Penn State institution itself. Unfortunately, sometimes people not directly related to wrongdoings are disadvantaged by punishments for those wrongdoings, but is that a worse alternative than allowing an institution off without any sanctions?

 

[Irishbounty28]

When you first started championing this thought, I thought "that sounds good, but there is some kind of catch", but the more I research it... you are absolutely right on this. PSU certainly did enough to voilate the Clery Act how it's written, it all depends on how the DoE addresses it. Interesting to say the least.

I was contemplating bringing this up because I didn't take the time to read through the entire thread to see if it had been discussed already. I definitely believe that it is interesting, and will be something to keep an eye on.

From the looks of it, the DoE has never handed down such a punishment, and most come in the form of fines to the university. With a situation as unprecedented as this it is not unrealistic to think they could put the hammer down on Penn State.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Hey Chaeillion, I don't know where our posts went, but I don't think I've been more critical than anyone else as far as this matter is concerned. I certainly don't think I've posted anything that would make me a "fool." I do hate Penn St. for a lot of reasons going back over 30 years, but I don't like what has happened there nor do I wish any kind of penalty that is not deserved. The crimes that were committed and the coverup that ensued are the worst things I've ever heard of on a college campus.

 

[irish1958]

How could a fine harm anyone at PSU? They would have a few less $ in the bank. Kill the FB or perhaps all sports and that will get their attention (is the SEC listening?)….
So others are hurt?
Perhaps we should have let John Gotti alone because his tailor and his mistress and his sommelier would have a hard time if he could no longer support them.
The thing about this affair that really galls me is where was the anger when Spanier=JP II; Curry and Schultz (?spelling?)= countless Monsignors and bishops, and Cardinal Law ( and hundreds of others)=Joe Paterno?
Was what they did any different? If so, how?
What sanctions did they endure ?

 

[charlyp123]

If PSU players are allowed to transfer immediately are there any cornerbacks on their squad that could help us? I know that might sound callous but these kids didn't do anything. It was Joe Pa and the admins. And if it can help ND on the field next year I'm all for it. My only question is how do these guys find spots, are most school at their scollie limit?

 

[irishroo]

I feel the point is being missed here, because the people you are speaking of, make up the institution. These people are totally intertwined in the web that is Penn State as an institution, and therefore are somewhat culpable for the wrongdoings. To answer your question, there is not any possible way to punish the institution itself without punishing the people that make it up.

This is more than just a problem with the institution itself, but involves the entire culture around the community. Joe Paterno was the institution, and was perceived as too big to fail by the University officials. He was put up on this pedestal by the entire Penn State community. THEY, or the people you speak of, gave him the power he needed to cover up the horrifying actions of Jerry Sandusky.

Okay that's fair, I should have been more specific with my question. I guess the main issue I have with talk of the death penalty, massive bowl bans, etc. is that it places the vast majority of the punishment on the shoulders of the current Penn St football players. These are kids who were 8, 9, 10 years old when all of this was happening and have done literally nothing wrong. I don't know what the solution is, but the message I get from some of the punishments being suggested is that the NCAA, B1G, and Penn State should be actively looking to punish somebody, anybody, no matter their involvement with the actual crime.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Okay that's fair, I should have been more specific with my question. I guess the main issue I have with talk of the death penalty, massive bowl bans, etc. is that it places the vast majority of the punishment on the shoulders of the current Penn St football players. These are kids who were 8, 9, 10 years old when all of this was happening and have done literally nothing wrong. I don't know what the solution is, but the message I get from some of the punishments being suggested is that the NCAA, B1G, and Penn State should be actively looking to punish somebody, anybody, no matter their involvement with the actual crime.

I get your point, but how many players were still in high school when Reggie Bush was getting paid and his parents had a house bought for them? The current players always pay for the crimes of others. Otherwise, there would be no repurcussions for illegal conduct. Its the program that has to pay, regardless of who the current players are.

 

[Rhode Irish]

How could a fine harm anyone at PSU? They would have a few less $ in the bank. Kill the FB or perhaps all sports and that will get their attention (is the SEC listening?)….
So others are hurt?
Perhaps we should have let John Gotti alone because his tailor and his mistress and his sommelier would have a hard time if he could no longer support them.
The thing about this affair that really galls me is where was the anger when Spanier=JP II; Curry and Schultz (?spelling?)= countless Monsignors and bishops, and Cardinal Law ( and hundreds of others)=Joe Paterno?
Was what they did any different? If so, how?
What sanctions did they endure ?

I agree about the general sentiment here, but it always hurts when you hit someone in the pocketbook, especially in this case when it is presumably in combination with a bunch of other things (which will limit their ability to backfill the money).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Now that you all have seen the apocalypse, let's get back to brass tacks. True, all Fed monies could dry up for PSU making it the giant hole near Clarion and Slippery Rock State, but that ain't it. If there is a lesson warranted, and to be taught, the US Attorney could go after these administrative eunuchs with violations of the Civil Rights Act. It isn't a stretch. More murderers have taken their last breath on a Federal concrete cot because they were convicted of civil rights violations that you ever would imagine. With the possible victims running into the hundreds, this would be a perfect venue for our Federal Gov'mnt to make a point. It would be the right thing to do, especially in light of the Church, and other religious organizations dropping the ball. Like I said I knew a guy that was in front of the last US Atty, for beating an inmate. Ask him how his seven convictions on Civil rights violations are going.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Okay that's fair, I should have been more specific with my question. I guess the main issue I have with talk of the death penalty, massive bowl bans, etc. is that it places the vast majority of the punishment on the shoulders of the current Penn St football players. These are kids who were 8, 9, 10 years old when all of this was happening and have done literally nothing wrong. I don't know what the solution is, but the message I get from some of the punishments being suggested is that the NCAA, B1G, and Penn State should be actively looking to punish somebody, anybody, no matter their involvement with the actual crime.

YEAH, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE VICTIMS. UNLESS SOMEONE STANDS UP AND ENDS THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL!

 

[irishroo]

I get your point, but how many players were still in high school when Reggie Bush was getting paid and his parents had a house bought for them? The current players always pay for the crimes of others. Otherwise, there would be no repurcussions for illegal conduct. Its the program that has to pay, regardless of who the current players are.

And that's the issue I have with the NCAA. They need to figure out a way to punish the actual perpetrators and not just the kids that people like Pete Carroll screw over on their way out of town to greener pastures. I hate USC as much as everyone else here, but does anyone here really believe that the current players at USC deserve to be banned from playing in bowl games because Reggie Bush and Pete Carroll are a$$holes? I certainly don't.

I'd also like to touch on how much people have been talking about NCAA sanctions as a deterrent for others. I totally disagree. As long as guys like Carroll, Calipari, Tressel, etc. can just pack up and leave for a new town or new team once the NCAA comes calling with sanctions, there is no reason for coaches to play by the rules other than personal integrity, which JoePa just proved once and for all is essentially nonexistent in the world of college sports. Again, I'm not sure what the solution is, but there needs to be a better solution than the current one.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

And that's the issue I have with the NCAA. They need to figure out a way to punish the actual perpetrators and not just the kids that people like Pete Carroll screw over on their way out of town to greener pastures. I hate USC as much as everyone else here, but does anyone here really believe that the current players at USC deserve to be banned from playing in bowl games because Reggie Bush and Pete Carroll are a$$holes? I certainly don't. Again, I'm not sure what the solution is, but there needs to be a better solution than the current one.

I agree with you, but no team would ever have to face the death penalty or a bowl ban or any other type of serious punishment if they couldn't punish the current and future teams.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Hey Chaeillion, I don't know where our posts went, but I don't think I've been more critical than anyone else as far as this matter is concerned. I certainly don't think I've posted anything that would make me a "fool." I do hate Penn St. for a lot of reasons going back over 30 years, but I don't like what has happened there nor do I wish any kind of penalty that is not deserved. The crimes that were committed and the coverup that ensued are the worst things I've ever heard of on a college campus.

It s erased and he was warned via PM. I'd appreciate it if you let it go this time. Thanks!

 

[gkIrish]

Don't want to quote anyone in particular but I think that those of you fist pumping the air because Penn State football is screwed and thinking about what recruits ND can pick up need to postpone that conversation. The sanctions tomorrow will only be one step in the process of punishing those responsible and attempting to heal the victim's wounds.

I don't care if ND wins another game ever again if it means one kid is saved from being molested in the future.

Off to Greece tomorrow. Might be able to post a bit every few days, but I'm looking forward to reading everyone's comments on the sanctions when they come out.

 

[Rhode Irish]

And that's the issue I have with the NCAA. They need to figure out a way to punish the actual perpetrators and not just the kids that people like Pete Carroll screw over on their way out of town to greener pastures. I hate USC as much as everyone else here, but does anyone here really believe that the current players at USC deserve to be banned from playing in bowl games because Reggie Bush and Pete Carroll are a$$holes? I certainly don't.

I'd also like to touch on how much people have been talking about NCAA sanctions as a deterrent for others. I totally disagree. As long as guys like Carroll, Calipari, Tressel, etc. can just pack up and leave for a new town or new team once the NCAA comes calling with sanctions, there is no reason for coaches to play by the rules other than personal integrity, which JoePa just proved once and for all is essentially nonexistent in the world of college sports. Again, I'm not sure what the solution is, but there needs to be a better solution than the current one.

What are they going to do, though? They don't have jurisdiction over people when they leave college sports. You really don't get, huh? In general, they have bring the hammer down on programs that do wrong in order to create an environment where people are scared to do wrong. Specifically regarding PSU, they have to punish everyone who has ever bought a PSU t-shirt, because the hero-worship culture that surrounded that program and controlled that school is what created the environment that allowed Sandusky to continue to rape children after the most powerful people in that community knew he was doing it.

 

[irishroo]

I agree with you, but no team would ever have to face the death penalty or a bowl ban or any other type of serious punishment if they couldn't punish the current and future teams.

You're right, which is why the NCAA needs to totally change the way they operate. Employ policies that are preventative rather then punitive, that give coaches and ADs real reasons (ie ones that affect them personally and not just the school) to be honest and maybe we'll start to see some change for the better.

No we're getting off topic though. Back to Penn State, I think the NCAA needs to make an example of them, but not in the way most are suggesting. Most people are calling for very severe, debilitating sanctions in order to warn others not to do things like this. My opinion is that if we as a society really need sanctions and punishments to remind people not to cover up a horrific child molestation scandal, we're so far gone that we're never coming back. Instead, use the massive magnifying glass hovering over State College as a way to show what a football program should be. Allow Penn St to rebuild the right way and be an example of how to learn from your terrible mistakes and become better from them (under NCAA sanctions of course, just not the program-destroying ones some are suggesting).