Oversigning Recruits

[Rack Em]

I can't rep you right now, but that is utterly ridiculous. The sad thing is that I almost feel numb to reading these articles about Nick Saban because THEY ARE EVERYWHERE.

He is a low life POS. He is scum.

 

[Ironman8]

LOL Texas A&M just got number 36

 

[Ironman8]

Taylor Hamm ‏@TaylorHamm247

Breaking news: The Aggies have flipped a big 2013 prospect. GigEm247 has the latest

 

[IrishLax]

Que ALLGATOR explaining how this is not oversigning

 

[Ironman8]

Que ALLGATOR explaining how this is not oversigning

They are still the heavy favorite for Isaac S. too. Would love to see them get to 40 just for comedy's sake.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

They are still the heavy favorite for Isaac S. too. Would love to see them get to 40 just for comedy's sake.

As I joked in the Mastrogiovanni thread, somewhere Houston Nutt is laughing.

 

[irishog77]

They are still the heavy favorite for Isaac S. too. Would love to see them get to 40 just for comedy's sake.

Seriously. I remember South Carolina and Ole Miss having classes of like 36, 37, or 38. I want a&m to keep signing and signing guys, then like was previously said, to see a rationale/defense of this.

The sec-- "where you can only oversign by a little...unless you want to oversign by a sh!tload."

 

[Riddickulous]

TAMU has oversigned worse than I do on NCAA 13.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Seriously. I remember South Carolina and Ole Miss having classes of like 36, 37, or 38. I want a&m to keep signing and signing guys, then like was previously said, to see a rationale/defense of this.

The sec-- "where you can only oversign by a little...unless you want to oversign by a sh!tload."

The $EC, where 25/85 is more of a suggestion than a rule.

 

[BGIF]

The $EC, where 25/85 is more of a suggestion than a rule.

Actually I believe the SEC rule IS 28/85.

As for A&M, they stayed within the 15/85 until they announced they were joining the SEC. Because of the edge the other Oversigning schools had had in recent years they came into the SEC with a two year signing waiver to catch up. They'll also be allowed to buy one JUCO QB, once after Manziel leaves, and take a 5th Year Garden Maintenance Man Major Transfer at QB, once.

It's all about parity. They've got and you don't.

 

[Irish#1]

Actually I believe the SEC rule IS 28/85.

As for A&M, they stayed within the 15/85 until they announced they were joining the SEC. Because of the edge the other Oversigning schools had had in recent years they came into the SEC with a two year signing waiver to catch up. They'll also be allowed to buy one JUCO QB, once after Manziel leaves, and take a 5th Year Garden Maintenance Man Major Transfer at QB, once.

It's all about parity. They've got and you don't.

Who knew A&M could get up to SEC standards so quickly?

 

[PLACforever]

I just did a quick count, and I could be off by +/- 3 tops, but I have A&M with 126 on their current roster..... what the f&@$

 

[Riddickulous]

Came across this gem from Texags:

TexAgs.com - Recruiting

 

[Rack Em]

LOL Texas A&M just got number 36

That's a Riddickulous number of recruits.

I don't get it. If a school signs 25 recruits every year (the max a school can sign), you still end up with 100 over a 4 year period. That's 15 over the 85 man limit. I understand that EE's count against the previous year, but I don't understand why there isn't a 25 or 26 player limit every year whether a recruit is an EE or not. That puts pressure on the coaches to recruit upstanding young men and develop them as people and players. Liken it to a flat tax where everyone pays the same rate and there are no loopholes. This would keep Kevin Sumlin from being a piece of **** and having 293523058346710593762 commits. Screw him.

 

[Irishnuke]

talking about who they'll play in the BCS championship game next year.

TexAgs.com - A&M Football

 

[dshans]

Que ALLGATOR ...

In the words of Popeye, "I've had all I can stands and I can't stands it no more!"

It's "cue" not "que," dammit!

"Que" is either "what" in spanish or an abbreviation for Quebec.

 

[BGIF]

Who knew A&M could get up to SEC standards so quickly?

Why do you think the SEC chose A&M for membership?

For the TV market?

It was for NCAA Probation Proficiency.

Since the 1950's, The Top 25 Most Sanctioned FBS Programs:

3) Auburn has been sanctioned 4 times covering 11 Seasons
4T) Alabama 3 times 10 Seasons
7T) Texas A&M 4 times 9 Seasons
11T) S. Carolina 3 times 8 Seasons
19T) Mississippi 3 times 7 Seasons
19T) Mississippi 3 times 7 Seasons


A&M has the appropriate pedigree for the SEC.

NCAA Probation - Who has been on it most?

 

[Bishop2b5]

I just did a quick count, and I could be off by +/- 3 tops, but I have A&M with 126 on their current roster..... what the f&@$

That number includes walk-ons. Virtually every FBS school has several of them. I'm not sure how many they currently have on scholarship, but I believe it's only about 80. Since they didn't use all 25 of their scholarships for last year's recruiting class, NCAA rules allow them to use those scholarships remaining from last year's recruiting class to exceed the 25 limit this year as long as they don't exceed a total of 85 on scholarship.

 

[philipm31]

Maybe so, but they are NOT 11 short, my friend.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Maybe so, but they are NOT 11 short, my friend.

Perhaps not, but only they know how many they expect to lose to graduation, early entry into the NFL, 5th year seniors who'll choose not to return, players who can't continue due to injuries, etc. In the end, they'll still only award new scholarships to 25 plus the number of schollies they have left over from last year, and they'll only have 85 on scholarship when next season rolls around, just like everyone else.

 

[Irishnuke]

That number includes walk-ons. Virtually every FBS school has several of them. I'm not sure how many they currently have on scholarship, but I believe it's only about 80. Since they didn't use all 25 of their scholarships for last year's recruiting class, NCAA rules allow them to use those scholarships remaining from last year's recruiting class to exceed the 25 limit this year as long as they don't exceed a total of 85 on scholarship.

I'm pretty sure that's only the case if they early enroll otherwise I believe they still count against the 25 limit.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

That's a Riddickulous number of recruits.

I don't get it. If a school signs 25 recruits every year (the max a school can sign), you still end up with 100 over a 4 year period. That's 15 over the 85 man limit. I understand that EE's count against the previous year, but I don't understand why there isn't a 25 or 26 player limit every year whether a recruit is an EE or not. That puts pressure on the coaches to recruit upstanding young men and develop them as people and players. Liken it to a flat tax where everyone pays the same rate and there are no loopholes. This would keep Kevin Sumlin from being a piece of **** and having 293523058346710593762 commits. Screw him.

293523058346710593762 commits?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This whole article is worth posting:

A few years ago when Southern California was placed on probation. Some people were surprised by the severity of the penalties (only USC fans, really). But in the report released by the NCAA, it was directly noted that the USC football program had previously been placed on probation five times since the early 1950s. I’m sure USC’s repeat violations had some impact on the severity of the penalties they received in 2010.

Listed below are the current FBS schools that have been placed on probation, in which the school’s football team was somehow involved. It’s important to keep in mind that violations in other sports often bring attention to a school’s entire athletic program. Sometimes the football violations paled in comparison to violations in other sports, but if the football program was involved I still listed them (i.e. Baylor’s probation from 2005-09).

College Football (FBS) Programs That Have Been Sanctioned the Most

Note: The count includes seasons not yet completed (i.e. USC 2012-2013).
Rk School Seasons Sanctioned
1 Southern Methodist (TX) 17 7
2 Southern California 15 6
3 Auburn (AL) 11 4
4t Alabama 10 3
4t Michigan St. 10 3
4t Oklahoma 10 5
7t Colorado 9 5
7t Illinois 9 5
7t Texas A&M 9 4
7t Wisconsin 9 4
11t Arizona St. 8 4
11t California 8 3
11t Cincinnati (OH) 8 4
11t Kansas 8 4
11t Kansas St. 8 4
11t Miami (FL) 8 3
11t Oklahoma St. 8 2
11t South Carolina 8 3
19t Florida Intl 7 2
19t Houston (TX) 7 3
19t Memphis (TN) 7 3
19t Mississippi 7 3
19t Mississippi St. 7 3
19t Ohio St. 7 3
19t Texas Tech 7 3

Notes

Since 1953, the year the NCAA instituted penalties, Southern Methodist has spent 29% of their seasons on probation. By 2013, Southern California will have spent 25% of their seasons on probation.

The 2012 season, will be Florida International’s first season off of probation since they joined the Sun Belt Conference in 2005.

Schools that are currently from the SEC have been sanctioned 35 times, for a total of 77 seasons; the most by any conference in the FBS.

College Football (FBS) and NCAA Probation by Conference

Note: The count includes seasons not yet completed (i.e. USC 2012-2013).
Conference Sanctioned Seasons
Atlantic Coast 18 38
Big 12 25 56
Big East 8 14
Big Ten 21 48
Conference USA 22 51
Independents 2 3
Mid-American 3 4
Mountain West 6 12
Pac-12 31 64
Southeastern 35 77
Sun Belt 5 13
Western Athletic 3 8

The bowl ban is one of the most severe penalties the NCAA can hand out. Since 1953, the NCAA has handed out a total of 80 bowl bans to current FBS schools.

Auburn and Southern Methodist are tied for the most years of bowl bans; nine bowl bans in total.

College Football (FBS) Programs That Have Received the Most Bowl Bans

Rk School Years Bowl Bans
1t Auburn (AL) 9 4
1t Southern Methodist (TX) 9 5
3 Southern California 6 4
4t Florida 5 3
4t Houston (TX) 5 2
4t Kansas St. 5 2
4t Miami (FL) 5 3
4t Oklahoma 5 3
4t Oklahoma St. 5 2
10t Indiana 4 1
10t North Carolina St. 4 1
10t Texas A&M 4 4
10t UCLA 4 2
14t Alabama 3 2
14t Arizona St. 3 3
14t California 3 2
14t Colorado 3 2
14t Illinois 3 2
14t Kansas 3 3
14t Kentucky 3 3
14t Michigan St. 3 1
14t Mississippi 3 2
14t Mississippi St. 3 2
14t Tulsa (OK) 3 1

On 21 occasions a bowl ban has kept a current FBS school from winning a conference championship, has prevented them from competing in a conference championship game, or has kept a conference champion out of a bowl game.
School Year(s)
Alabama 2002
Arizona St 1959
Auburn (AL) 1957, 1993
Clemson (SC) 1982, 1983
Florida 1984, 1985, 1990
Kentucky 1977
Miami (FL) 1995
Michigan St. 1978
North Carolina St. 1957
Oklahoma 1973, 1974
Southern California 1959, 2011
Southern Methodist (TX) 1981
Texas A&M 1956, 1994
Wyoming 1959

References

Thanks to Robert Bradley for the idea.

The NCAA has made available a database of every major infraction they have dealt with. You can access their Legislative Services Database to conduct your own research on the topic. I would have liked to have been able to provide a link to every document I accessed, but unfortunately the links change with every user session. Most of the information posted was found using the NCAA database.

 

[chicago51]

After ND wins this year. I say the NCAA gives the SEC a 1 year bowl ban.

 

[ALLGATOR]

Que ALLGATOR explaining how this is not oversigning

I dont know why you guys care so much about what aggie is doing. Other SEC schools would be the first people to say something if they were doing something wrong. Aggie will follow the rules just like everybody else. I have done very little research on the issue but it seems a ND fan has

Texas A&M now with 35 commits...wtf?

FWIW, TAMU is not oversigning....

They signed 19 in the previous class that had 4 ees in it, so many of this class will be early enrollees; others wont qualify and/or will greyshirt. Keep in mind some TAMU kids will also declare for the draft, too.

Because they were in the Big 12, they have signed 3 classes (the 4th had 28) under 25:

2012: 19 signees (4 early enrollees)

2011: 22 signees (5 early enrollees)

2010: 23 signees (4 early enrollees)

2009: 28 signees

They signed 92 players over the last 4 cycles, and of those 92, ~72 are still on the roster. 17 of those are seniors, which leaves them at about 55 scholly's after this year. They could possibly have as few as 51 scholarship players after pro declarees are done. Some of these kids wont get in, some kids may not come back, so they've got some room.

The numbers to look at are 25 and 85. TAMU is at least 30 away from 85 total schollys. After early enrollees they should be able to get to 25 for this years class and be close to 85. Georgia is expecting to do the same thing this year because they took a small class last year: it's really about taking advantage of the early enrollee that they get this done.

Now, the SEC DOES NOT explicitly say a team CANT go over 85 at signing day, so that may be something to look out for. For example, TAMU could sign 40, then get 15 EE's to get to 25 for this year. However, they would then be at ~90 schollys TOTAL. 5 guys would have to be gone by August 1st (med hardship, violation of team rules, we know the deal) in order to get to 85.

I know the number appears exorbitant, but this is not a Houston Nutt situation there. In his case, he signed 37 knowing he couldn't get everybody in.

The roster breakdown can be found on ESPN insider, for those who have access.

I'm confident these #'s are correct, but perhaps someone has seen different numbers, I'd be interested in knowing what they are if they have. Cool thread

 

[IrishLax]

That number includes walk-ons. Virtually every FBS school has several of them. I'm not sure how many they currently have on scholarship, but I believe it's only about 80. Since they didn't use all 25 of their scholarships for last year's recruiting class, NCAA rules allow them to use those scholarships remaining from last year's recruiting class to exceed the 25 limit this year as long as they don't exceed a total of 85 on scholarship.

Do they have 11 EEs? And even if they did they couldn't count them all against last year's class.

 

[ALLGATOR]

Do they have 11 EEs? And even if they did they couldn't count them all against last year's class.

They have 9 EE's

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Math break: 30 is >, = , < , 36?

Circle the correct answer.

 

[Riddickulous]

TAMU would have ~50 schollies for the next three years and we all know they aren't going to be signing a 16-17 man class three years in a row.

 

[IrishinTN]

Math break: 30 is >, = , < , 36?

Circle the correct answer.

Wait a minute, I know this one...hang on, let me get my calculator...