Orlando attack - terrorism suspected

Legacy

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Good article, Whiskey.

Firearm case law in the United States

SCOTUS
In D.C. vs Heller, the Supreme Court struck down a D.C. ban on handguns, but recognized that like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited and gun rights can be restricted, while finding that handgun possession in the home for self-defense was permissable and that handgun locks violated the 2nd Amendment. (Counting the minority opinion judges, SCOTUS decided 9-0 that there can be restrictions on guns.)

In McDonald vs Chicago, Chicago's gun control ban (enacted in 1982) and other provisions which
- Prohibit the registration of handguns, thus effecting a broad handgun ban
- Require that guns be registered prior to their acquisition by Chicago residents
- Mandate that guns be re-registered annually, with another payment of the fee
- Render any gun permanently non-registrable if its registration lapses

SCOTUS reaffirmed provisions in Heller but struck down Chicago's restrictions (2010). The NRA had also sued Chicago, as they have with all gun restrictions in local and state laws. After six people were murdered and Gabrielle Giffords was critically injured in 2011, Chicago Mayor Daley, as all their mayors have, continued his vocal support of gun restrictions, saying
“This is a national tragedy...But unfortunately, events like this happen far too often in America. We have to come back with some common sense gun laws.”
Daley also said in 2011:
“It should be an outrage, where we kill more people in America on a daily basis, on a yearly basis than most of the countries combined . . . and this is unacceptable.”
Daley described America as a “killing machine” because of guns. Under Daley, Chicago in 1998 and other municipalities sued gun manufacturers and dealers for negligence on the grounds that they should have foreseen that their products would be diverted to criminal use. The Congress passed Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act in 2005, protecting those manufacturers and dealers from lawsuits.

Chicago’s Murder Problem See graph for rise in homicide rate after 1985 through 2015.

Since 2009, eleven states have passed laws requiring seized guns from criminals to be resold rather than destroyed. A number of crimes have been committed using these guns (in link). The NRA is a proponent of these laws.

Finally,
A 1997 U.S. Justice Department survey of 14,285 state prison inmates found that among those inmates who carried a firearm during the offense for which they were sent to jail, 0.7% obtained the firearm at a gun show, 1% at a flea market, 3.8% from a pawn shop, 8.3% from a retail store, 39.2% through an illegal/street source, and 39.6% through family or friends.

With 78% of prison inmates able to obtain guns from an illegal or family source, this would argue for biometric gun locks, making gun use available only to the legal purchaser.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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The American Interest's Jason Willick just published an article titled "How to Tear a National Apart":

In the wake of the San Bernardino shootings, and again after yesterday’s slaughter in Orlando, American gun control activists have made much of the fact that Al-Qaeda spokesman Adam Gadahn once reminded his followers that “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms,” and urged them to use the opportunity to massacre civilians in a hail of bullets. “What are you waiting for?” he asked.

Many on the Left seem persuaded that the most productive response to Islamist rampages is to agitate for more gun control measures, and statements like Gadahn’s apparently confirm this conviction. Even if it’s far from clear that new gun laws would have an impact—the 1990s assault weapons ban had no discernible effect on violent crime rates, and the Paris attacks should make clear that draconian gun control doesn’t exactly prevent terrorist mass murder—the impulse is understandable. “Thoughts and prayers” won’t stop the violence, as they say. Now is a time for action, and action means a scorched-earth-campaign against America’s tradition of expansive gun rights.

Watching the grimly predictable response to the Orlando tragedy, however, almost makes one wonder whether there was more to Gadahn’s evil exhortation than meets the eye. The purpose of terrorist attacks is not, first and foremost, to kill and maim people, but to sow fear and distrust, to undermine the public spirit—to undermine the very fabric of a society. Depending on the circumstances, guns may or may not be more effective instruments of murder than any other tools terrorists have used in the past. But there is no question that they are superior when it comes to one thing: Pitting Americans against each other.

After 9/11 and the Boston Bombings, Americans grieved together and comforted each other. They resolved to fight their attackers as one nation. Insofar as there was partisan dissension, it was mostly contained to cranks on either side. But the attacks at San Bernardino and Orlando have yielded an altogether different response, dominated by hostility, mistrust, and outrageous partisan attacks. Part of this is because the latter two attacks took place during a hotly-contested election season that has brought fevered populism to the fore on both sides of the aisle. But perhaps the most important reason Americans have been divided, rather than united, in the face of terror over the last year is simply because the terrorists elected to kill their victims with bullets. If Omar Mateen had planted Tsarnaev-style pressure-cooker bombs in the crowded Pulse nightclub on Saturday night, he may well have claimed just as many casualties. But the attack would not have immediately set off a political firestorm over gun control.

Guns occupy a critical space in America’s increasingly acerbic culture wars, a manifestation of the broader social convection currents taking place below the surface. For Jacksonians who are losing faith in the ability of established institutions to preserve order, the Second Amendment is a bulwark against totalitarian movements, like Islamism, that would undermine American liberty. Under this deeply held view, attacks by ISIS-enthusiasts strengthen, rather than weaken, the case for gun rights. But for cosmopolitan liberals, gun rights are an anachronism—a symbol of all the wrong-headed views espoused by working class whites. Set these two warring camps against each other in the context of an ongoing terror threat, and you push an already divided society even further down the path of tribalism and fracture.

The attackers in Orlando and San Bernardino accomplished something the attackers in Boston and New York didn’t: They drove a wedge between patriotic Americans, and managed to ensure that our grieving over the dead was polluted from the outset by a din of vicious political assaults. By any measure, they and their fellow travelers must consider this a great success. Perhaps terrorists who choose to carry out their massacres with guns are actually “taking advantage” of American society in a rather different way than many liberals think.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The real lesson here is that enemy armies are helpless against us, but a clever group can get us to break ourselves.</p>— ≠ (@ThomasHCrown) <a href="https://twitter.com/ThomasHCrown/status/742357838706548742">June 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Legacy

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from Whiskey's link above: Patrick Blanchfield, "The Gun Control We Deserve,"

Costs of a Buyback
...
at no point has a federal ban on gun sales been a plausible proposition[/B]. Regardless of what Maximalists and Minimalists may yell at each other and fundraise over, gun sales soar. During the holiday shopping season of 2015, Americans bought three times as many guns as Australia collected over the course of its yearlong nationwide buyback in 1995–96. Meanwhile, The cost of implementing a similar program in the United States—simply in terms of purchasing-related expenses and not including enforcement costs produced by inevitable noncompliance—could easily surpass $100 billion dollars.
No one on any side is talking about any buybacks or confiscations, though some take advantage of a few people's fears to maximize their profits.

Chicago
To give an example: for twenty-four years, the South Side of Chicago has not had a single trauma center. This means that anyone shot in one of the American localities most beset by gun violence must be transported some nine miles for care, despite compelling research that traveling more than five miles vastly increases mortality rates for gunshot victims. After years of dogged community activism, a new trauma center will open in 2017 at the earliest—and even then, numerous high-violence wards will lie outside that five-mile radius.

For twenty-five years, the city of Chicago banned handguns with the result that homicides in the city dropped for ten years then stayed the same for ten years. The recent surge in homicides has happened in the last few years, five years after SCOTUS said Chicago's handgun ban was ruled unconstitutional. Guns shops were then allowed to sell within city limits. The new trauma center is a conversion of an existing hospital, requiring facilities for all kinds of trauma and perhaps an upgrade in existing facilities - neurosurgical, burn ICUs, etc.

In a statement, the City of Chicago has said:
“Every year Chicago police recover more illegal guns than officers in any city in the country, a factor of lax federal laws as well as lax laws in Illinois and surrounding states related to straw purchasing and the transfer of guns. We need stronger gun safety laws, not increased access to firearms within the city.”

Congressional Appropriations & Gun-Lobby Interests
For all this to become possible, Americans would have to demand that their legislators resist regulatory capture by gun-lobby interests. We would need more funding for gun-violence public health research by the Center for Disease Control and other groups. And we would have to recognize the intrinsic value of those whose suffering is too easily banished from the public eye—like victims of domestic violence, the poor (black, white, and otherwise), and the mentally ill.

CDC funding
House - CDC funding in the House goes through the Committee on Energy and Commerce, Subcommittee on Health. The Chairman of the Committee is Joseph Pitts, who is rated "A" by the NRA (link to record on gun issues)

Senate - CDC funding in the Senate - Appropriations are through the Appropriations Committee, headed by Thad Cochran, rated "A" by the NRA (gun issues voting record), and their Subcommittee Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, and Related Agencies, headed by Roy Blunt, who is rated "A" by the NRA (gun issues voting record)

Besdies ending funding for CDC public health gun violence research, the Appropriations Committee has also specifically ended funding for CDC's Youth Violence Prevention Funds. Homicides are the third leading cause of deaths for young people between the ages of 15-24. (At least eight Senators on the Appropriations Committee have rated "A" or "A+" by the NRA, including Cochran, McConnell, Graham, Shelby, Blunt, Murkowski, Hoevan, and Moran)

Background Checks
The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is part of the FBI.

Strengthening domestic violence gun-purchasing restraining orders, streamlining reporting requirements, and fixing bottlenecks in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) would also be vital. Such initiatives would have to respect medical privacy concerns, remain mindful that the mentally ill are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators, and extend sustainable mental health outreach services to vulnerable groups. All these measures, enacted in concert or piecemeal, would diminish the number of lives cut short by bullets.

from: FBI official: 'Perfect storm' imperiling gun background checks
Depending on the volume of gun sales, at any one time the queue of pending cases — which by law must be resolved within three business days — generally ranges in the several thousand. Recently, those numbers have ballooned as high as 13,000. If the cases, some of which depend on local law enforcement agencies finding paper records to satisfy an examiner's search, cannot be resolved within the three-day period, gun dealers are generally free to complete the sales. "Some (cases) aren't being looked at until the third day,'' Morris said, referring to the increasing volume and limited staffing.

"That delay queue has grown ... that meter is running.''

70% of gun sales are approved through the NICS within minutes. The other 30% require a more thorough background check like in Dylan Roof's case. A longer waiting period would help with identifying criminals/felons/history of mental illness/terror suspects.

Appropriations Committee Heads
NICS (background checks) appropriations are through the FBI budget requests -
Senate - Appropriations are through the Appropriations Committee, headed by Thad Cochran, rated "A" by the NRA (gun issues voting record) and the Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies, headed by Richard Shelby, rated "A+" by the NRA (voting record on gun issues)

House - Appropriations for the NICS/FBI are approved through the Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies, whose head is John Culberson, rated "A" by the NRA. ( record on gun control issues)
 
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dshans

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I see no need to quote your entire post.

I can only say that I stand and applaud your patience, diligence, sentiment, reason, reserve and resonance.

Mere bullshit reps aren't sufficient.
 

Legacy

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Every year a "Fix Gun Checks Act" bill is introduced in the House, going to the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations for a hearing. The purpose of the bill, HR 3411 (for 2015) is
"To ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in the national instant criminal background check system and require a background check for every firearm sale."

The bill amends the Brady Bill by requiring reporting of all firearm sales, of reporting a person "adjudicated as a mental defective", reporting transfers and lost weapons, and including of federal court records into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

The head of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations is Bob Goodlatte, who has a "A" rating from the NRA on gun right issues. Goodlatte co-sponsored a bill prohibiting suing gun manufacturers, voted for decreasing the waiting period to 1 day, and signed a National cross-state standard for concealed carry bill, which would allow a person with a concealed carry license in one state to also concealed carry in any other state.


The "Fix Gun Checks Act" bill doesn't make it out of his Subcommittee.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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Here's the first in a series of 51 tweets from reporter Rukmini Callimachi regarding Mateen radicalization:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1. G'morning everyone, I'm still in Paris on assignment. Join me here for some thoughts on the partial 911 transcript of the Orlando shooter</p>— Rukmini Callimachi (@rcallimachi) <a href="https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/744913997397368837">June 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Legacy

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from post 693:
Senate - CDC funding in the Senate - Appropriations are through the Appropriations Committee, headed by Thad Cochran, rated "A" by the NRA (gun issues voting record), and their Subcommittee Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, and Related Agencies, headed by Roy Blunt, who is rated "A" by the NRA (gun issues voting record)

Besdies ending funding for CDC public health gun violence research, the Appropriations Committee has also specifically ended funding for CDC's Youth Violence Prevention Funds. Homicides are the third leading cause of deaths for young people between the ages of 15-24. (At least eight Senators on the Appropriations Committee have rated "A" or "A+" by the NRA, including Cochran, McConnell, Graham, Shelby, Blunt, Murkowski, Hoevan, and Moran)

House - Appropriations for the NICS/FBI are approved through the Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies, whose head is John Culberson, rated "A" by the NRA. ( record on gun control issues)

I didn't have the time to check all the Senate Appropriations Committee's 30 members NRA ratings (16 Reps, 14 Dems). Fourteen of the sixteen Rep Senators have an "A" rating from the NRA. (Collins (ME) has a C and Kirk (Ill) has a F)

One of the Dem Senators also has an "A" rating (Tester from Mont). Ten of the fourteen Dems have F ratings.

With fifteen of the thirty Senators on the Appropriations Committee having an A rating, changes in budget appropriations for gun violence issues for background checks, CDC research, etc. is virtually impossible.
 
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phgreek

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Man says he was Orlando shooter’s gay lover, says Omar Mateen targeted Latinos as revenge.

Not sure if it's possible to vet the story, but it could change the narrative a bit.

BWAHAHAHAHA...OMG, I can't breath. My side hurts. This has to be a giant shit (or pork) Sammich for them...

Seems like the ISIS "Darling" was someone else's "Darling"!

This entire situation is a tragedy, and I'm well aware of the gravity, but the level of irony...not letting that go.

More on the incongruous Rainbow ISIS fighter, Mateen. ISIS Might Have Claimed Credit for the Orlando Shootings Too Soon - Fortune
 

woolybug25

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BWAHAHAHAHA...OMG, I can't breath. My side hurts. This has to be a giant shit (or pork) Sammich for them...

Seems like the ISIS "Darling" was someone else's "Darling"!

This entire situation is a tragedy, and I'm well aware of the gravity, but the level of irony...not letting that go.

More on the incongruous Rainbow ISIS fighter, Mateen. ISIS Might Have Claimed Credit for the Orlando Shootings Too Soon - Fortune

It's been reported from the start that he was a closet homosexual battling an internal fight between his religion and his sexuality. It just hasn't been reported much because him going nuts because of a struggle with being gay isn't as sexy as being a radical Islamic terrorist.

The reality is that his sexuality battle could have been the root to his mental instability.
 

pumpdog20

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It's been reported from the start that he was a closet homosexual battling an internal fight between his religion and his sexuality. It just hasn't been reported much because him going nuts because of a struggle with being gay isn't as sexy as being a radical Islamic terrorist.

The reality is that his sexuality battle could have been the root to his mental instability.

You might be right, but IMO both stories are equally as "sexy" depending on what news source you frequent.
 

phgreek

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It's been reported from the start that he was a closet homosexual battling an internal fight between his religion and his sexuality. It just hasn't been reported much because him going nuts because of a struggle with being gay isn't as sexy as being a radical Islamic terrorist.

The reality is that his sexuality battle could have been the root to his mental instability.

Totally agree...If we are doing root cause analysis here, pretty sure he wasn't some sort of ISLAM fighter...ever.

...read some of the articles that touched on his orientation. The one I attached seems to put it all in a nice bundle. So yea sure its been out there...I was more reacting to the "face to the claim"

...having ISIS come out on a recruiting video singing this Mateen's praises, and then having a man claim he had a gay affair with the martyred ISIS warrior...oh, too much. It was apparently lampooned pretty well on twitter...on which I am not a real participant...so I missed the fun apparently.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Totally agree...If we are doing root cause analysis here, pretty sure he wasn't some sort of ISLAM fighter...ever.

...read some of the articles that touched on his orientation. The one I attached seems to put it all in a nice bundle. So yea sure its been out there...I was more reacting to the "face to the claim"

...having ISIS come out on a recruiting video singing this Mateen's praises, and then having a man claim he had a gay affair with the martyred ISIS warrior...oh, too much. It was apparently lampooned pretty well on twitter...on which I am not a real participant...so I missed the fun apparently.

Looking like that could be the case.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Totally agree...If we are doing root cause analysis here, pretty sure he wasn't some sort of ISLAM fighter...ever.

Looking like that could be the case.

See the Tweets I linked above. Very difficult to argue that Mateen wasn't radicalized by ISIS over the internet. Which is not to say that his story is just about Islamism. It can also be about a Muslim descendant of Afghani Pashtuns who couldn't reconcile his cultural heritage with his homosexual urges. And it can also be about mental illness and gun control.

But based on his comments to the 911 operator, ISIS' online propaganda clearly had an effect on him.
 

phgreek

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See the Tweets I linked above. Very difficult to argue that Mateen wasn't radicalized by ISIS over the internet. Which is not to say that his story is just about Islamism. It can also be about a Muslim descendant of Afghani Pashtuns who couldn't reconcile his cultural heritage with his homosexual urges. And it can also be about mental illness and gun control.

But based on his comments to the 911 operator, ISIS' online propaganda clearly had an effect on him.

probably some part of all of those things...but in this case I think it matters what he was first...He was not an ISIS fighter, nor was he apparently a devout Muslim...I think he was a defective human, failing at all turns...and decided to try and whitewash his life's failures with a cause. To me thats less radical Islamist and more opportunistic loser.
 

Whiskeyjack

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probably some part of all of those things...but in this case I think it matters what he was first...He was not an ISIS fighter, nor was he apparently a devout Muslim...I think he was a defective human, failing at all turns...and decided to try and whitewash his life's failures with a cause. To me thats less radical Islamist and more opportunistic loser.

There's a huge amount of overlap between those two groups. ISIS is explicitly targeting "opportunistic losers" in the West with its online propaganda.
 

IrishJayhawk

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There's a huge amount of overlap between those two groups. ISIS is explicitly targeting "opportunistic losers" in the West with its online propaganda.

That's why I think it's less about Islam being violent and more about violent people using Islam. But it's obviously hard to tease everything out.
 

phgreek

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There's a huge amount of overlap between those two groups. ISIS is explicitly targeting "opportunistic losers" in the West with its online propaganda.

No argument....

I think it is important to note these home grown folks who kill in the name of ISIS were going to kill in the name of something...IMHO.

Why do I think that...well, what in an ISIS message gets folks over their natural wiring to preserve themselves...nothing that I can see. They were already gone. To me this begs the question, if not ISIS, then what other thing will they wrap themselves in to justify sucking at life and making the rest of us pay.

I make a distinction only because I think it is far more critical to focus on the loon part, than the ISIS propaganda part...because we can actually catch loons, we can't stop ISIS from purveying propaganda(although we should target conduits).

Yes ISIS is out there more than others, and offers an easier thing for loons to wrap themselves in...so by all means, we should be watching those sites, trapping people with them, etc. But there will be others when ISIS is gone....and we'll still have loons by the thousands....thats all I'm getting at.
 

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Much of what Moslems hear and have observed have created such a conflict and clash that recruiting others in violent responses. Lengthy wars, tortures, disrespectful cartoons against their prophet, alliances with rulers who were considered tyrants and with Israel, inflammatory and indiscriminate rhetoric from leaders, poorly defined Mid-East goals, timelines extended, failed governments that were not democratic nor representative, and a disintegration of societies due to wars, etc. etc. have radicalized Moslems to a much greater degree than when Al Qaeda was the main threat. The more actions that are perceived as a war against Islam and all Moslems, the more converts to violent jihad are created. Some fires you smother or you risk splattering their flames.

The Globalization of Jihad: From Islamist Resistance to War Against the West (The Islamic Supreme Council of America)

(from page 2)
THE JIHADIST NETWORK TODAY

The infrastructure of al-Qaeda has not been destroyed, but shattered into a thousand smaller pieces. Its leaders do not despair at this turn of events, rather they rejoice because the fragments of their global terrorist network still operated in countries around the world and are still capable of inflicting serious damage in those regions. Though al-Qaeda’s collective power is diminished, the number of targets demanding the West’s attention has increased.

Moreover, the war on terrorism has spawned many new anti-Western groups and organizations throughout the Muslim world. The leaders of al-Qaeda are reaching out to these groups and providing money, logistics and other support. However, al-Qaeda is not necessarily trying to bring them into its own organizational structure. Rather, it has learned the value of a decentralized network.

The situation today is even more dangerous than it was before. Al-Qaeda presented the West with a single, if geographically diffused, target. Now, the West faces a myriad of new enemies, some of which it has yet to identify. These smaller groups are able to act independently and the elimination of one often has little or no affect on those that remain.

(from page 4)
Democracy has existed in the United States for more than two centuries and has flourished in Europe for many generations. In contrast, Western-style democracy is in its infancy in the Muslim world. All too often, those who win power through the ballot box become tyrants. America is trying to apply democracy in a region that has no established democratic institutions and no modern democratic traditions. Until indigenous democratic institutions are firmly established, democracy in the Middle East will continue to be a means for extremists and tyrants to take and hold power.
 
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Legacy

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Pistols statement on Orlando

Pistols statement on Orlando

Wonder what they think about the Pink Pistols (LGBT gun advocacy group).

Gwendolyn Patton, First Speaker of the Pink Pistols, an international GLBT self-defense organization, warns people not to jump immediately to the assailant’s guns as the object of blame, but to concentrate instead on Mateen’s violent acts. “The Pink Pistols gives condolences to all family and friends of those killed and injured at Pulse,” began Patton. “This is exactly the kind of heinous act that justifies our existence. At such a time of tragedy, let us not reach for the low-hanging fruit of blaming the killer’s guns. Let us stay focused on the fact that someone hated gay people so much they were ready to kill or injure so many. A human being did this. The human being’s tools are unimportant when compared to the bleakness of that person’s soul. I say again, GUNS did not do this. A human being did this, a dead human being. Our job now is not to demonize the man’s tools, but to condemn his acts and work to prevent such acts in the future.”

Pink Pistols Saddened by Attack on Orlando Club


The Group that Wants to Arm Gay America
 
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Irish YJ

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Aren't these the same guys that found no evidence of radical Islamic terrorism after editing the 911 call?

FBI/DOJ haven't been a paragon of credibility or transparency (A.G. Lynch) in this case.

Same guys that investigated Brady.
 
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