Offensive Line Thread

[IrishLax]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/isdupdate/status/1438535795980308490?s=21[/TWEET]

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I find this incredibly concerning. Does anybody find success rotating OL?

I'm certainly not opposed to the idea that the guards need to compete for their jobs based on the last two weeks. But doing it this way reeks of desperation. If they're not winning in practice then bench them and see what the understudies do. But a planned rotation sounds like the backups aren't actually doing enough in practice and the planned rotation is going to eliminate the benefits of continuity on top of it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I find this incredibly concerning. Does anybody find success rotating OL?

I'm certainly not opposed to the idea that the guards need to compete for their jobs based on the last two weeks. But doing it this way reeks of desperation. If they're not winning in practice then bench them and see what the understudies do. But a planned rotation sounds like the backups aren't actually doing enough in practice and the planned rotation is going to eliminate the benefits of continuity on top of it.

Yup.

Who's coming off the field for him? Until Correll to C and Patterson to LT is on the table, Madden seems to make the most sense.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The Hainsey/Kraemer rotation in 2017 worked fairly well. Didn't Elmer get a lot of reps in 2013 too?

 

[spoonidentity]

I was listening to the Dryskel podcast today and he had mentioned that he received information via multiple sources that the last few years McGlinchey, Alex bars and other veterans were watching game film and coming up with game plans and doing team instruction for the o-line not Quinn. I’m asking you specifically because you seem to have a good pulse on the program. If this turns out to be true...this might be the most absurd thing I have heard since Willingham’s golf adventures.


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Just to lay this rumor fully to bed. Per the ISD podcast on 9/15 Mike Frank unequivocally called this false. He confirmed with sources that it originated from the parent of a player who is not happy about playing time and role. All sour grapes. He also went on to say that based on his investigation he said he never would have reported it and it would be irresponsible to have done so (re: Driskell without naming him). His exact words also were to criticize Jeff Quinn based on things he actually did and not false rumors.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Today's II podcast, one of the guys said that the O linemen weren't happy with the Jeff Quinn hire back in 2017/2018, which is the exact opposite of what I remember everyone saying. Is that actually true and we were fed false info?

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[ulukinatme]

Today's II podcast, one of the guys said that the O linemen weren't happy with the Jeff Quinn hire back in 2017/2018, which is the exact opposite of what I remember everyone saying. Is that actually true and we were fed false info?

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Harry's guys batted for him. There were some malcontents as I think Lax pointed out, but the guys that were successful swore by him if I recall and weren't that thrilled about Quinn filling his shoes.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Today's II podcast, one of the guys said that the O linemen weren't happy with the Jeff Quinn hire back in 2017/2018, which is the exact opposite of what I remember everyone saying. Is that actually true and we were fed false info?

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Again, this is from Driskell, who seems to be hit or miss, but the players were clamoring for Joe Gilbert. He is the OL coach for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I find this incredibly concerning. Does anybody find success rotating OL?

I'm certainly not opposed to the idea that the guards need to compete for their jobs based on the last two weeks. But doing it this way reeks of desperation. If they're not winning in practice then bench them and see what the understudies do. But a planned rotation sounds like the backups aren't actually doing enough in practice and the planned rotation is going to eliminate the benefits of continuity on top of it.

I'm with ya. I feel like there is some serious grab bagging going on right now.

 

[NDRock]

Again, this is from Driskell, who seems to be hit or miss, but the players were clamoring for Joe Gilbert. He is the OL coach for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

What’s the connection with Gilbert and ND?

 

[BobbyMac]

One thing I want to throw out there to the... Correll's to small crowd. Do you know how many 6-3ish and smaller guys there are in the League? Brian Allen from MSU started at OC for the Rams at 6-2/305 vs. the Bears and we all know who starts for the Bears... 6-2, Sam Mustipher. Correll is not too small. Maybe he needs to do what Sam did, eat everything in sight and get up to 332.

 

[Irish#1]

One thing I want to throw out there to the... Correll's to small crowd. Do you know how many 6-3ish and smaller guys there are in the League? Brian Allen from MSU started at OC for the Rams at 6-2/305 vs. the Bears and we all know who starts for the Bears... 6-2, Sam Mustipher. Correll is not too small. Maybe he needs to do what Sam did, eat everything in sight and get up to 332.

Jeff Saturday 6' 2" 295lbs. He had a pretty good career.

 

[IrishLax]

Again, this is from Driskell, who seems to be hit or miss, but the players were clamoring for Joe Gilbert. He is the OL coach for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

The opposite was reported at the time. BK involved upperclassmen in the process and they liked Quinn. This was actually covered publicly too, not even inside info. I believe Sampson and some others wrote articles on it.

I'm not saying some of them might not have also said positive things to say about other guys, but I think he's misrepresenting the situation.

 

[IrishLax]

Two other thoughts:
1. I think if Quinn's biggest problem as a position coach, if he has one, is probably that he doesn't instill toughness/meanness in the group the way Hiestand did. Hiestand's groups were always bullies first, technicians later... but developed into high IQ players as part of the process. Even last year's very good line did not beat people up like with saw with the '15 or '17 groups.
2. This is probably the best football discussion we've had in awhile with a lot of well-reasoned competing viewpoints. Very interesting to read and get everyone's different perspectives on the OL now // where it's headed.

 

[BeauBenken]

Now what I do think was interesting in BK's comments about getting some snaps to other interior guys is that he seemed to suggest that the current duo was simply getting too many snaps. Do they think that they are just getting worn out over the course of the game and can't get the push necessary to spring the run plays or what?

The quote: "I think we have to. I think they're getting so many snaps. Zeke (Correll) in particular and Cain (Madden) needed a blow. Andrew Kristofic is probably the first guy and then Rocco and John in that order."

Are we running more plays than usual by playing at a higher speed? Pulling the guards more than previous years? I haven't noticed it as just a watcher, but I'd be curious on the numbers.

 

[Dale]

Now what I do think was interesting in BK's comments about getting some snaps to other interior guys is that he seemed to suggest that the current duo was simply getting too many snaps. Do they think that they are just getting worn out over the course of the game and can't get the push necessary to spring the run plays or what?

The quote: "I think we have to. I think they're getting so many snaps. Zeke (Correll) in particular and Cain (Madden) needed a blow. Andrew Kristofic is probably the first guy and then Rocco and John in that order."

Are we running more plays than usual by playing at a higher speed? Pulling the guards more than previous years? I haven't noticed it as just a watcher, but I'd be curious on the numbers.

I thought it was kind of coach speak to justify the rotating but we are definitely playing much higher pace, by my own tempo calculations, which I usually don’t use till like Week 5 to smooth out, we are in the Top 20, it won’t hold up there but significant jump regardless.

 

[Irish du Nord]

One thing I want to throw out there to the... Correll's to small crowd. Do you know how many 6-3ish and smaller guys there are in the League? Brian Allen from MSU started at OC for the Rams at 6-2/305 vs. the Bears and we all know who starts for the Bears... 6-2, Sam Mustipher. Correll is not too small. Maybe he needs to do what Sam did, eat everything in sight and get up to 332.

This is where I’m at too. He may be undersized for a guard, but not for a center. Getting him back there next year (if not sooner) will bode well for his play

 

[Irish#1]

Two other thoughts:
1. I think if Quinn's biggest problem as a position coach, if he has one, is probably that he doesn't instill toughness/meanness in the group the way Hiestand did. Hiestand's groups were always bullies first, technicians later... but developed into high IQ players as part of the process. Even last year's very good line did not beat people up like with saw with the '15 or '17 groups.
2. This is probably the best football discussion we've had in awhile with a lot of well-reasoned competing viewpoints. Very interesting to read and get everyone's different perspectives on the OL now // where it's headed.

This, part of how HH was more demanding.

 

[pkt77242]

Next week if Carmody is healthy, I would like to see

LT: Carmody
LG: Lugg/Spindler
C: Patterson
RG: Madden/Kristofic
RT: Baker

 

[Irishize]

Next week if Carmody is healthy, I would like to see

LT: Carmody
LG: Lugg/Spindler
C: Patterson
RG: Madden/Kristofic
RT: Baker

We will see more posts, tweets & mailbag comments like this moving forward but the II guys seemed to agree that there won’t be any major changes unless it’s injury-related. They’ve invested 4-5 years into Lugg so while it looks good on paper to got w/ the younger tackles once Carmody & Fisher are healthy, ND must believe that Lugg gives them the best chance. The questions to the staff will definitely get louder after the Wisconsin game but I doubt they make any major change.

 

[Luckylucci]

I guess that would be part of reasoning for why I’d move on from Lugg. There is no upside. Nothing left to get. If it hasn’t happened yet, it’s very unlikely to happen over the next 9. And, there isn’t another off-season for him.

 

[Irishize]

I guess that would be part of reasoning for why I’d move on from Lugg. There is no upside. Nothing left to get. If it hasn’t happened yet, it’s very unlikely to happen over the next 9. And, there isn’t another off-season for him.

I agree 100%. I suspect the ND coaches see differently. If half of next season’s OL is on the sideline and the current OL ends up costing ND the next few games, then why not pull the plug on the seniors who won’t be returning next season anyways and have shown they can’t get the job done? That’s why I’m not a coach.

 

[NDisme]

I think you keep Baker at LT Carmody didn’t show me much to put him back in that spot IMO.

 

[clashmore_mike]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/ADavidHaleJoint/status/1440373209317007360?s=19[/TWEET]

 

[IRISHMAN]

that's bad. does ND expect Michael Carmody to play this week?

 

[Luckylucci]

Woof! Man these boys are bad.

 

[Dale]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/adavidhalejoint/status/1439981045512904704?s=21[/TWEET]

For some context

Bama has also played Florida for context on my context

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Yo, dawg, I heard you like context...

 

[GrangerIrish24]

If Carmody is back, would it be better just to move Lugg to rg and put either Baker or even Alt at rt?

 

[pumpdog20]

who the hell has time to come up with such a stat