Offensive Line Thread

[koonja]

Am I bummed about losing Harry? F yes I am.. He was an amazing coach.

But the world is not burning down.. ND will hire someone and they will keep rolling out the pigskin on Saturdays in the fall..

It's going to be ok.. Let's see who Kelly goes with

Right. This is nothing like losing Elko. We'll be OK without Harry IMO.

 

[NDohio]

Did one of 'Bama's most important coordinators/ position coaches make a horizontal move recently?



Harry at least didn't make a horizontal move like Elko did, but I don't get the impression the 'Bamas and OSUs of the world are regularly losing their most important coaches at crucial junctions for the program. Their most successful guys get promoted to coordinator and HC positions at other schools after winning a title.

We just finally managed to string together a pair of 10 win seasons within a 3 year window for the first time since 1993. Not remotely similar.

There have been calls in this thread for Ed Warinner to come to ND. He is the perfect example of someone that did exactly what you are lamenting. In fact I would say that was worse as at least HH is going to the NFL, the pinnacle of his sport. EW left OSU for a lateral move(maybe?) to Minnesota. This sucks. I hate it, but this is something that happens everywhere in the world of coaching.

I do agree that HH was probably our most valuable coach, but this is life for coaches...They move...A lot...

 

[Blaise]

Right. This is nothing like losing Elko. We'll be OK without Harry IMO.

I agree,

but I do feel bad for the next OL coach.. Even if Harry returned, we don't have two veteran first rounders on the line..
the OL was going to slip, but now it will reflect poorly on the new coach

 

[SoIll]

Pete is calling for Rick Trickett

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Right. This is nothing like losing Elko. We'll be OK without Harry IMO.

Where would NDFB be today without the Martin brothers, Stanley, McGlinchey and Nelson? I doubt Kelly would still be our HC. Prior to Hiestand, we hadn't had an OL drafted in the first couple rounds since the Browns picked up Faine in 2003. Harry has produced 5 in as many years.

Elko is arguably a bigger loss, but that blow was softened by our ability to quickly back-fill with Lea. I doubt we'll be able to find anyone that comes close to filling Hiestand's shoes.

There have been calls in this thread for Ed Warinner to come to ND. He is the perfect example of someone that did exactly what you are lamenting. In fact I would say that was worse as at least HH is going to the NFL, the pinnacle of his sport. EW left OSU for a lateral move(maybe?) to Minnesota. This sucks. I hate it, but this is something that happens everywhere in the world of coaching.

I do agree that HH was probably our most valuable coach, but this is life for coaches...They move...A lot...

When Warriner left OSU, there was bad blood on both sides. It's not like Meyer was desperate to keep him there and the Buckeyes couldn't offer him enough to stay. That's just not comparable to us losing Elko or Hiestand.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Both are detrimental, but Elko was a bigger loss than Harry.

This is like finding out you have treatable cancer after being diagnosed with AIDS a week ago.

I disagree. HH brought talent to ND because OLmen wanted to learn and play under a winning OL coach. Losing HH just cost ND a big lure for OL recruits to come to ND.

You will see OL recruitment drop off bank on it. And ND needs all the help it can get.

 

[BoredIrish]

Pete is calling for Rick Trickett

Boom goes the dynamite... at least until the Jeff Quinn announcement comes out.

 

[koonja]

Where would NDFB be today without the Martin brothers, Stanley, McGlinchey and Nelson? I doubt Kelly would still be our HC. Prior to Hiestand, we hadn't had an OL drafted in the first couple rounds since the Browns picked up Faine in 2003. Harry has produced 5 in as many years.

Elko is arguably a bigger loss, but that blow was softened by our ability to quickly back-fill with Lea. I doubt we'll be able to find anyone that comes close to filling Hiestand's shoes.



When Warriner left OSU, there was bad blood on both sides. It's not like Meyer was desperate to keep him there and the Buckeyes couldn't offer him enough to stay. That's just not comparable to us losing Elko or Hiestand.

I guess if you're saying ND doesn't sign them without HH, you have a point. But if those guys come here regardless of who the OL coach is, they still turn out great. Harry never did much with a 3-star, keep that in mind. McGlinchey, Nelson, and Stanley all came in as high 4-star/5 star guys. How much credit do you give HH for Zack Martin? I actually do not remember how much he was with HH based on when HH came here.

Harry is awesome and I wish he'd stay, don't get me wrong. But we always have a great OL until we play someone with a defense, then we look like D2'ers out there. We got dominated by Miami and Georgia, it wasn't even a contest in the trenches. This seems to happen every year when we feel really good about our OL.

Elko was just great with "OK" personnel in year 1.

 

[calvegas04]

It's alright on to the next.

 

[NDohio]

Where would NDFB be today without the Martin brothers, Stanley, McGlinchey and Nelson? I doubt Kelly would still be our HC. Prior to Hiestand, we hadn't had an OL drafted in the first couple rounds since the Browns picked up Faine in 2003. Harry has produced 5 in as many years.

Elko is arguably a bigger loss, but that blow was softened by our ability to quickly back-fill with Lea. I doubt we'll be able to find anyone that comes close to filling Hiestand's shoes.



When Warriner left OSU, there was bad blood on both sides. It's not like Meyer was desperate to keep him there and the Buckeyes couldn't offer him enough to stay. That's just not comparable to us losing Elko or Hiestand.

I just don't think we can be as down as we are on the program because HH left. I am actually really glad and surprised he stayed as long as he did. HH is top three in his profession and did an amazing job while at ND. I am sure the NFL has reached out to him every single year and he kept them at bay until Da Bears are the ones that came calling. This is most likely the only job that would entice him to leave ND.

Good luck at the next level HH. It's been awesome seeing your work the last five years.

 

[ThePiombino]

Boom goes the dynamite... at least until the Jeff Quinn announcement comes out.

I just don't see the admin signing off on any "good ol' boy" hires anymore. I think BK lost that privilege after the BVG fiasco.

 

[Wingman Ray]

And I cant blame HH. Professional coaching Im sure is most if not all coaches dreams. Im sure he got a significant pay raise as well.

So no hate to HH, unlike Elko.

 

[ThePiombino]

And I cant blame HH. Professional coaching Im sure is most if not all coaches dreams. Im sure he got a significant pay raise as well.

So no hate to HH, unlike Elko.

Yep. Sucks to lose him, but this ^

 

[Dizzyphil]

I hate to see him go. I remember the day here in TN when vols fans were screaming 'GOOD RIDDANCE'. They didn't know what they had lost.

Harry - good luck Sir and thank you for your contributions.

 

[connor_in]

This is the life of a ND fan right now

 

[Ndaccountant]

BK is a sitting duck at this point IMO, one way or the other.

 

[koonja]

Do I need to state the obvious?

BK is a sitting duck at this point IMO, one way or the other.

I think this is what GK is getting at.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I guess if you're saying ND doesn't sign them without HH, you have a point.

Our OL recruiting has been outrageously productive over the last 5 years. Arguably best in the nation. You think that's just a coincidence?

But if those guys come here regardless of who the OL coach is, they still turn out great.

It's both. A lot of those guys came to ND to learn from Harry, and their development under him is a big reason they got drafted so high. Look at all the 4- and 5-star linemen we've graduated prior to Harry who didn't get drafted at all or underperformed their high school ratings and ended up going in a late round.

Harry never did much with a 3-star, keep that in mind.

Nick Martin was a 3-star who got drafted in the 2nd round. And you can't point to any other coach in the country who regularly turns 3-star recruits into early round draft picks.

McGlinchey, Nelson, and Stanley all came in as high 4-star/5 star guys. How much credit do you give HH for Zack Martin? I actually do not remember how much he was with HH based on when HH came here.

Zack himself gave Harry lots of credit for his development after the 2013 season.

Harry is awesome and I wish he'd stay, don't get me wrong. But we always have a great OL until we play someone with a defense, then we look like D2'ers out there. We got dominated by Miami and Georgia, it wasn't even a contest in the trenches. This seems to happen every year when we feel really good about our OL.

Of all the problems we've had on offense recently, our OL is close to the bottom of the list. Play-calling and QB development are much bigger issues.

I just don't think we can be as down as we are on the program because HH left.

Losing critical coaches like Elko and Hiestand after going 10-3 is not normal. Something is rotten in Denmark. This could be an early indicator of impending disaster as our most marketable coaches see a significant regression coming in 2018, followed by Kelly's firing and a total reboot of the coaching staff; so they're jumping now while their stock is high.

 

[Luckylucci]

I guess if you're saying ND doesn't sign them without HH, you have a point. But if those guys come here regardless of who the OL coach is, they still turn out great. Harry never did much with a 3-star, keep that in mind. McGlinchey, Nelson, and Stanley all came in as high 4-star/5 star guys. How much credit do you give HH for Zack Martin? I actually do not remember how much he was with HH based on when HH came here.
Harry is awesome and I wish he'd stay, don't get me wrong. But we always have a great OL until we play someone with a defense, then we look like D2'ers out there. We got dominated by Miami and Georgia, it wasn't even a contest in the trenches. This seems to happen every year when we feel really good about our OL.

Elko was just great with "OK" personnel in year 1.

It doesn't matter how much credit we give him, Martin gives him all the credit in the world. Similar to Harrison Smith when Diaco and Company got a hold of him, Martin has not been shy in his praise for Harry. He's said numerous times how prepared he was for the next level because of Harry.

Also, just because Stanley was a "high" 4 star doesn't mean HH doesn't deserve a lot of credit. As I've pointed out before, "high" 4 star players are not projected to 1st round picks and the best at their position unless, at least, one of two things happen. Great development and/or great evaluation of talent. Every single one of those OL you mentioned, were drafted ahead of their respective rankings. Even Nelson who will probably be a top 10-15 pick.

 

[Kingbish01]

Sucks to lose HH but the O line is usually filled with some of the smartest kids. I don't think recruiting will fall off as much as we think, and it may actually go up. I'd get on the phone with Justin Frye or Jeff Grimes.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't think the issue is so much losing HH as it is what losing HH (and Elko) represents. Basically what Whiskey is saying...

 

[Dizzyphil]

"Of all the problems we've had on offense recently, our OL is close to the bottom of the list. Play-calling and QB development are much bigger issues." Whiskeyjack

What HH instilled in the players as well - not just on the X & Os.

I distinctly remember at least three or four times when someone from the O-Line was interviewed and they stated somewhere along the lines that either as a unit, or as an individual was responsible for a mistake or missed assignment.

HH taught them to play as one unit, not as one player. You never heard HH or one of the O-Lineman throwing someone beside them under the bus.

 

[Nothingman]

 

[koonja]

Christian at ISD - "Some of the OL will be relieved."

 

[irishfan]

I’m prepared to get ripped for this opinion, but while I thought HH was a good coach, I’ve always thought he was very overrated by the fan base. Our OL has had a tendency to stink it up in big games and while I’m sure a lot of that is due to play calling as well, I’ve always thought a top-tier OL should be able to impose their will on anyone and avoid a sh!tshow like a Miami game for instance. For years I have thought we were good not great on the line and while I would have been happy keeping HH, I don’t think this is a massive loss.

 

[koonja]

I’m prepared to get ripped for this opinion, but while I thought HH was a good coach, I’ve always thought he was very overrated by the fan base. Our OL has had a tendency to stink it up in big games and while I’m sure a lot of that is due to play calling as well, I’ve always thought a top-tier OL should be able to impose their will on anyone and avoid a sh!tshow like a Miami game. For years I have thought we were good not great on the line and while I would have been happy keeping HH, I don’t think this is a massive loss.

My exact thoughts.

Look good against Temple, get owned against a great defense. We should at least compete in the trenches against great defenses if our OL is so great, not get completely thumped.

 

[ThePiombino]

Christian at ISD - "Some of the OL will be relieved."

What in the !?@#?!@# does this mean? I thought everyone loved HH?

 

[notredomer23]

I’m prepared to get ripped for this opinion, but while I thought HH was a good coach, I’ve always thought he was very overrated by the fan base. Our OL has had a tendency to stink it up in big games and while I’m sure a lot of that is due to play calling as well, I’ve always thought a top-tier OL should be able to impose their will on anyone and avoid a sh!tshow like a Miami game for instance. For years I have thought we were good not great on the line and while I would have been happy keeping HH, I don’t think this is a massive loss.

I was just saying this to my buddy. We've produced elite offensive linemen but never elite (still great, no doubt) offensive line units under HH. I think he is a very good coach and I am disappointed to see him leave but the sky is not falling.

 

[koonja]

What in the !?@#?!@# does this mean? I thought everyone loved HH?

They respected him, but apparently he worked them really, really hard. Sounds like a breath of fresh air won't be the worst thing for some players. According to Christian.

 

[irishff1014]

Christian at ISD - "Some of the OL will be relieved."

I want to know more?