Offensive Line Thread

[phgreek]

I read the article.

As far as what data is the criterion for this rating, I am a bit unclear.

The article talks at first about talent and implies that a major consideration is the players being evaluated.

Then when it lists ND as number one, it starts talking about offensive plays, blocking techniques, and schemes.

I can only surmise that this magazine thinks that ND has a high level of talent that can execute a sophisticated offensive scheme, with training and skills developed that will translate well on the NFL level.

Everything I have heard is that all NFL scouts are having wet dreams over Mike McGlinchey. Quenton Nelson is being whispered about as an automatic future All-Pro. And with ND's development process, record of developing offensive line talent under Harry, and the talent level of the recruits coming in (rated number one in the college ranks by compiling results of the recruiting services,) this covers it.

Also, I have a friend that is related to a coach in the NFL at the Coordinator level that swears ND will be better at each position this year than last. Not my words. I would say that my friend wouldn't lie about something like this, but I cannot swear that they would get everything in context, either! So what it's worth. A lot of people are looking at three right side as establishing themselves as pretty special, too.

So, a series of great offensive tackles, with as many more in the pipeline, and Harry in charge is enough to light 'em up!

I like the trajectory since Harry came on board. As we saw in 2007, THE most important facet of the game is O-line play...at least that is the lesson I came away with. And yes you need to reach competence in the other areas too.

I want to see this new band of guys do it on the field...if they do, the synergy between recruiting, development, and success will be something ND hasn't had on the O-line since Lou.

 

[T Town Tommy]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-football-top-10-offensive-lines-in-notre-dame-stanford/

No idea who this guy is but he likes the Irish OL.

 

[House16]

Yeah this article has been making the rounds. Doesn't mean much to be #1 when Appalachia State (which I believe graduates 3, by the way) is #3.

Also, very unfortunate gif choice here haha

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Yeah this article has been making the rounds. Doesn't mean much to be #1 when Appalachia State (which I believe graduates 3, by the way) is #3.

Also, very unfortunate gif choice here haha

I have seen a few oline group rankings and they all have Appalachian State in the top 20. So having them at number 3 is not that outrageous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScooterIrish]

I didn't read the articles posted, but I've heard the statements that the ND o-line doesn't have the starts that you normally see with elite groups. However, isn't minutes played a bigger deal than starts? I guess I thought the guys moving up into starting spots have actual, meaningful minutes played...

 

[zelezo vlk]

I didn't read the articles posted, but I've heard the statements that the ND o-line doesn't have the starts that you normally see with elite groups. However, isn't minutes played a bigger deal than starts? I guess I thought the guys moving up into starting spots have actual, meaningful minutes played...

Mustipher doesn't have many if any, and same for whoever plays at RG. Bars has some time under his belt, but he isn't what I would consider a veteran. The left side will be outstanding and the coaches love Mustipher, but the right side could be anywhere between terrible and good. There's just too much unknown at this point.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I didn't read the articles posted, but I've heard the statements that the ND o-line doesn't have the starts that you normally see with elite groups. However, isn't minutes played a bigger deal than starts? I guess I thought the guys moving up into starting spots have actual, meaningful minutes played...

I understand and agree with your point. Some of the guys who haven't started, have some playing time. Furthermore, they have competed against some pretty good players in practice, Smith, Day, Rochell, etc.

But everyone looks for a hard and fast, and there really are none.

And this Notre Dame line is a perfect example :

• Technique - Hiestand offensive lines have always demonstrated superior technique.
• Youth - Yes experience is really important. But there are three or four recruits from the last couple of classes that have the ability to come in and play well as freshmen. ND clearly has a luxury only a couple of schools have; Tommy or Liam may be good enough to start from day one, but they don't have to, which drops the rate of injuries. Which in turn leads to;
• Depth of Talent - Any team that has two players, let alone three or four that could jump in without much of a drop-off in play is ahead of the game. Last year we saw it with Bars for Nelson, and Nelson for Bars.
• McGlinchey and Nelson have a great shot at being All-Americans. Two next to each other? What if they end up consensus AA's? Last year with Smith and Fuller was the first time ND had two in the same year. But that was split between offense and defense. Two next to each other on the same line?
• Blocking scheme - The NFL is crazy in love with college teams that run the zone. Especially when they run the Outside zone really well. ND does that.

There is more but ND will have two or three quarterbacks that could play almost anywhere, may have prolific running down to number 4 on the depth chart, has a (real, healthy) tight end back, and may have two true slot receivers able to play at a high level.

This all helps the line. What you call defenders that cant key early, or cheat? Toast.

There is more, but I understand how anyone, especially those with an NFL prospective see a lot to like with the Irish this year!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Whoa. I know the reaction is usually, "Duh, because Hiestand." but this is especially impressive. <a href="https://t.co/PjfXMG5TSh">https://t.co/PjfXMG5TSh</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/760898845375160320">August 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Quote from the story: "The joke around the Texans organization is the next center they need to draft is currently in middle school."</p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/760901322866581504">August 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ozzman]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Quote from the story: "The joke around the Texans organization is the next center they need to draft is currently in middle school."</p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/760901322866581504">August 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Love to hear stories like that. Good on Nick and kudos to HH. Remember when some people were down on the hire? That was a long time ago

 

[greyhammer90]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Quote from the story: "The joke around the Texans organization is the next center they need to draft is currently in middle school."</p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/760901322866581504">August 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thank god that scrub left so we could get a more talented player in there right guyz?

 

[koonja]

Thank god that scrub left so we could get a more talented player in there right guyz?

Lol, crickets.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The love for <a href="https://twitter.com/HoustonTexans">@HoustonTexans</a> center Nick Martin is real. I've talked to coaches and players who think he'll be the team's best lineman.</p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/761321165075939328">August 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ThePiombino]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The love for <a href="https://twitter.com/HoustonTexans">@HoustonTexans</a> center Nick Martin is real. I've talked to coaches and players who think he'll be the team's best lineman.</p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/761321165075939328">August 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Awesome! Very happy for him

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The love for <a href="https://twitter.com/HoustonTexans">@HoustonTexans</a> center Nick Martin is real. I've talked to coaches and players who think he'll be the team's best lineman.</p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/761321165075939328">August 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I thought he couldn't hold up at the point of attack in college. How is he doing this in the NFL? I thought Mustipher was an upgrade? 34 wins or bust

 

[dublinirish]

Preseason Practice Update - August 10 :: Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

Harry Hiestand is one of the country's most renowned offensive line coaches whose recent pupils alone include four Notre Dame players taken in the first three rounds of the NFL draft since 2014.

Assisting Hiestand daily at practice is graduate assistant Donovan Raiola, a three-year starter at Wisconsin who spent time on several NFL rosters

Didn't know Raiola was on the staff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donovan_Raiola

Dominic's brother obviously

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">. <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF">@PFF</a> also had Ronnie Stanley as 1 of their top graded rookies in week 1 of pre-season + Zack Martin as 5th ranked OL in the NFL <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hiestand?src=hash">#Hiestand</a></p>— Jamie Uyeyama (@jamieuyeyama) <a href="https://twitter.com/jamieuyeyama/status/765572554937528320">August 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

HH doesn't seem like the type of guy that would tweet that at recruits but I sure hope somebody is blowing up Trey Smith, Wills, and Sarrell with these tweets and comments. I'd have a person in the recruiting office solely responsible for skimming the internet looking for the next quote from Obrien on Martin or Harbaugh on Stanley, etc. Strike while the iron is hot, lol.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Stanley top rated rookie lineman.
Martin, 4th round lineman ready to start as a rookie.
ZMartin, one of the best five linemen in pro football.

Not too shabby!

I would go there if I were a large, gifted 17 year old.

I wish I could find a couple of statements I saw lately, pro coaches that indicate a kid could play and not start for Harry, and still make it in the NFL. I've heard at least one lately, if not a couple. THAT is what I would be pushing.

Back these kids off of needing to start the minute they walk on campus, and see how they feel in a year or two when they have learned something. * Something = ND beginning to dominate the first two rounds of linemen taken in the draft.

 

[Blaise]

Stanley top rated rookie lineman.
Martin, 4th round lineman ready to start as a rookie.
ZMartin, one of the best five linemen in pro football.

Not too shabby!

I would go there if I were a large, gifted 17 year old.

I wish I could find a couple of statements I saw lately, pro coaches that indicate a kid could play and not start for Harry, and still make it in the NFL. I've heard at least one lately, if not a couple. THAT is what I would be pushing.

Back these kids off of needing to start the minute they walk on campus, and see how they feel in a year or two when they have learned something. * Something = ND beginning to dominate the first two rounds of linemen taken in the draft.

Its amazing the job Harry has done, but I am pretty sure they do preach this and its why we recruit OL VERYwell... we need to have that kind of success from our defensive players in the NFL so we can hang our hats on that... Someone in the secondary besides Harrison Smith

 

[Domina Nostra]

Its amazing the job Harry has done, but I am pretty sure they do preach this and its why we recruit OL VERYwell... we need to have that kind of success from our defensive players in the NFL so we can hang our hats on that... Someone in the secondary besides Harrison Smith

How could they have preached this before this year? It was just Z. Martin.

 

[Blaise]

How could they have preached this before this year? It was just Z. Martin.

Chris Watt, Ryan Harris, Zack Martin..... Ronnie Stanley was projected as a lottery pick before last season... Back to Back recruiting classes with elite OL recruits... yes... They def brag about being able to Develop and put OL into the NFL, same with TE

 

[Domina Nostra]

Chris Watt, Ryan Harris, Zack Martin..... Ronnie Stanley was projected as a lottery pick before last season... Back to Back recruiting classes with elite OL recruits... yes... They def brag about being able to Develop and put OL into the NFL, same with TE

Ok, you just mean generally.

Now they actually have a list of guys HH has worked with and is getting to the top or their trade.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Chris Watt, Ryan Harris, Zack Martin..... Ronnie Stanley was projected as a lottery pick before last season... Back to Back recruiting classes with elite OL recruits... yes... They def brag about being able to Develop and put OL into the NFL, same with TE

Harris was not Harry, but I get your point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zelezo vlk]

Hiestand has been a well respected coach among the NFL for a while. He put guys in the League from Illinois and spent time in Chicago.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[BeauBenken]

How could they have preached this before this year? It was just Z. Martin.

Well:

During his tenure at Illinois, Hiestand tutored 12 all-Big Ten selections on the offensive line, and every senior starting offensive lineman in his first seven years with the Illini signed with an NFL team.

His offensive line helped Bears' running backs eclipse 1,200 rushing yards three times in five seasons.

Thomas Jones gained 1,335 rushing yards in 2005 and 1,210 yards in 2006, while Matt Forte totaled 1,238 yards on the ground in 2008. Jones and Forte joined an exclusive list of Bears' running backs to ever gain at least 1,200 rushing yards in a season: Neal Anderson, Walter Payton and Gale Sayers.

In his first season with the Volunteers in 2010, only one player in his group had starting experience and that amounted to only three career starts. Three true freshmen started on the 2010 offensive line that helped running back Tauren Poole tie for the SEC lead with six 100-yard rushing games. He recorded just the 16th 1,000-yard rushing season in school history with 1,034 yards.

He didn't obtain things to brag about only while at ND.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Stanley top rated rookie lineman.
Martin, 4th round lineman ready to start as a rookie.
ZMartin, one of the best five linemen in pro football.
. . .
I wish I could find a couple of statements I saw lately, pro coaches that indicate a kid could play and not start for Harry, and still make it in the NFL. I've heard at least one lately, if not a couple. THAT is what I would be pushing.

Its amazing the job Harry has done, but I am pretty sure they do preach this and its why we recruit OL VERYwell... we need to have that kind of success from our defensive players in the NFL so we can hang our hats on that... Someone in the secondary besides Harrison Smith

How could they have preached this before this year? It was just Z. Martin.

Chris Watt, Ryan Harris, Zack Martin..... Ronnie Stanley was projected as a lottery pick before last season... Back to Back recruiting classes with elite OL recruits... yes... They def brag about being able to Develop and put OL into the NFL, same with TE

Hiestand has been a well respected coach among the NFL for a while. He put guys in the League from Illinois and spent time in Chicago.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Well:. . . He didn't obtain things to brag about only while at ND.

My comment was in the context of Stanley and the Martin brothers. I love HH, but before last year he wasn't able to talk about a streak of first rounders, All-Pros, and NFL starters.

Lots of coaches, especially the ones we compete with, get kids in the NFL on a regular basis. That is not unique.

HH has always been a great coach that is well-respected (except at Tennessee). He now has a new selling point: give me top flight talent at a top school, and I'll put them in the top of the draft. That talking point did not exist before the last couple of years. This isn't controversial.

But it's as if I stated that he had no success before ND. I didn't.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Great article on Harry
Notre Dame offensive line coach Harry Hiestand effect rooted in fundamentals

Stat of the day

In the 10 NFL drafts before Hiestand arrived in South Bend, only one offensive lineman—center Jeff Faine (1999-03)—was selected with one of the first 160 picks. In the last three drafts, four Irish linemen were taken inside the top 90 spots, including two first-rounders. Both the current left tackle McGlinchey and left guard Nelson are likely to join the growing list sooner than later.

 

[dublinirish]

Pat Flaherty didn’t find out the two were dating until a few years later when Hiestand informed him he was going to propose.)

HH with that illicit romance, slick moves brah

 

[arrowryan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>'s starting offensive line averages 6-5.1 and 315 pounds. That's bigger than 9 teams that made the 2015 NFL Playoffs.</p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/768643794573025280">August 25, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>'s OL in 2012 averaged just 302.6. It's biggest OL was 310 pounds. The 2016 unit AVERAGES 315 pounds.</p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/768646777675186176">August 25, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Another reason why the offense should be run heavy and another reason why HH is the best hire by BK