Off-topic posts formerly found in recruiting profiles

[IrishLax]

whats the word on Georgia Tech? do many football players there graduate with engineering degrees? Seem to remember Francis Kallon last year spurning ND to go there cos of the degree

Georgia Tech has some really strong programs. But as Whiskey will tell you, they have atrocious graduation rates and I doubt many (if any) players are getting engineering degrees.

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

I used to live right next to GT campus and delivered Jimmy Johns to campus often when I worked there. I have never heard of a football player in an engineering program. That was years ago though.

 

[Emcee77]

With that being said, any football (or basketball) player that tries to do engineering is borderline crazy. I remember when Carleton Scott tried engineering... that lasted all of a semester I think. Couldn't make any group meetings or find study time and I think he had a 1.something GPA when he dropped it for A&L. There are simply not enough hours in the day to do both a revenue sport with all of its commitments and engineering. So considering that, Notre Dame is a good bet because of the other alternatives to engineering if he finds the workload too much. There are lots of athletes who do it... but I'm really struggling to think of a football/basketball player in my years there that made it all the way through.

All this, but ESPECIALLY the bolded. I hate to be such a cynical a-hole, but when I hear that a recruit is interested in engineering, I am tempted to roll my eyes. There were two players who graduated from ND with engineering degrees either just before I arrived or they were seniors when I was a freshman (and one was damn good: Jabari Holloway, a tight end who played in the NFL for a couple of years) ... but they are the only ones I can think of, and the examples of players who started out in engineering and then dropped out are LEGION. It is really hard to find the time to play big-time football and do engineering.

And honestly, the same goes for non-athlete students ... it's just really freaking hard. I knew MANY who started in engineering and were in Mendoza or A&L by the start of their sophomore year. I've said it before on this board: I'd estimate that 70% of the people I met in my first week at ND told me they were aiming to do either engineering or pre-med. (I specifically remember this because, as a guy who was always exclusively interested in the humanities, I was really disappointed at how much trouble I was initially having meeting people with similar interests, lol.) I'd estimate that less than half of those remained in engineering or pre-med past their freshman year. It is VERY common for students to be interested in those fields and then realize that they aren't as smart as they thought they were and, even if they can avoid failing out, it doesn't make sense to pull all those all-nighters for a 2.0 GPA or worse. When even students with nothing else going on in their lives are deciding that engineering is too much, what chance do the football players have?

So, the point is this: Lax articulated a GREAT argument for going to ND ... it may be true that if you want to major in pre-med or engineering, your degree from Big State School X is just fine ... but what if you get to college and you realize that you DON'T want to major in pre-med or engineering? (and that happens ALL the time, even to people who aren't struggling academically. I knew one guy who was acing the pre-engineering calculus, but ended up deciding to major in ND's Great Books program, just because that's what he was interested in.) There are so many great programs at ND, and even if your intended major doesn't work out, you'll end up in something worthwhile. Or even if you don't, the ND name just means something to people and will open doors for you; it has certainly opened a lot of random doors for me in my professional life. Maybe it's just me, but I think ND is always the smart move ...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Georgia Tech has some really strong programs. But as Whiskey will tell you, they have atrocious graduation rates and I doubt many (if any) players are getting engineering degrees.

GT's GSR figures are pretty rough: 55% overall, and only 49% for African-American players.

OMM has stated a few times that the "tech" schools (GT, VT, etc.) are infamous for having cushy athlete tracks. The vast majority of those players aren't getting a real education.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I'm assuming he's planning on EET or MET, not EE or ME. Huge difference.

 

[irishog77]

I'm assuming he's planning on EET or MET, not EE or ME. Huge difference.

Quit speaking jibberish, Steelhead.

 

[MJ12666]

Depends on specifically what type of engineering you're trying to do. For some disciplines, schools like Kansas State and Penn State blow Purdue out of the water. You'd actually be shocked at how good of a school for engineering Kansas State is (for the right programs) and how many KSU alums are powerful players at major companies.

With that being said... look, the bottom line is that if you go to a school like Notre Dame and are an engineer you're going to be hired and probably have a better career than people who went to "engineering-centric" schools. The reason is that you're more prepared to actually RUN a company. And many fields basically require you to get a Masters... at which point the extra 2-3 classes at a Purdue you took instead of ND's mandatory Philosophy and Theology classes become pretty darn irrelevant. The writing skills I developed from Philosophy classes coupled with sports writing I did after picking up a bunch of torn ligaments back to back to back have gotten me promotions over a lot of people who are far better "engineers" than I am.

Really getting off topic from Tranquill now... so suffice to say Purdue is very good for engineering but it's pretty impractical for a football player to major in engineering, and even a large swath of general populous students with no other time demands find it too challenging and drop. So if you're not 100% stone cold sure you're going to be an engineer, choosing a school like a Stanford/Duke/Northwestern/Notre Dame that has strong programs outside of the College of Engineering to give yourself options is probably preferable to Purdue.

Do you have any facts to support this statement? The reason I am asking is that I interviewed a ND graduate who had a degree in accounting and I quite honestly do not remember him being any more prepared to run the company than the other candidates.

 

[IrishLax]

Do you have any facts to support this statement? The reason I am asking is that I interviewed a ND graduate who had a degree in accounting and I quite honestly do not remember him being any more prepared to run the company than the other candidates.

I'm pretty sure you're just being flippant but:

1. I'm talking specifically about engineering; not accounting, finance, medicine, basket weaving, or anything else but engineering. It should be obvious why this distinction is important, but to spell it out... most engineers are engineers because they're good at math, science, and specific technical aptitudes. Accordingly, they are usually not good at writing... and often times they are dreadful. Many also have poor verbal communication and interpersonal skills. So getting an all-round balanced education with some liberal arts focuses that specifically stresses things like writing and reasoning outside of engineering pays serious dividends later when you have to move on from being the guy who does the engineering to the guy who manages the company and does the business development. Notre Dame, in particular, has classes like FYC and the philosophy requirements (in addition to the stress they put on lab reports) that really force you to become proficient at writing. As an anecdote, when I visited Dartmouth when considering schools one of the professors there said "if you want to be the guy who designs the widgets, Dartmouth probably is not the best school for you. If you want to be the guy who runs the company that designs the widgets, Dartmouth is a good school to consider" and then explained why (that you're not going to get the purely technical education you might get at an engineering-centric school but you will get a very well-rounded one that is better suited towards management). Notre Dame operates in a similar vein.

2. All of the Payscale/Business Week/Forbes info about mid-career/peak-career earnings backs up exactly what I'm saying. The performance of ND's graduates ranks ahead of 99% of other schools on the aforementioned lists and that strongly suggests that they're putting more kids in upper management/entrepreneurial positions than other places.

Hope that helps.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Do you have any facts to support this statement? The reason I am asking is that I interviewed a ND graduate who had a degree in accounting and I quite honestly do not remember him being any more prepared to run the company than the other candidates.

Was he a recent Grad? If so, it's quite understandable that he was not prepared to run the company. If a grad with some years in the real world, what role were you hiring for that would have him running the company with his accounting background? Are you looking for someone to run an accounting firm? If not, you might be looking for the wrong person to begin with.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I'm assuming he's planning on EET or MET, not EE or ME. Huge difference.

To clarify this post: Purdue offers derivatives of their Electrical and Mechanical Engineering degree known as Electrical or Mechanical Engineering Tech. I'm not an engineer, but a general comparison seems to be if an EE (electrical engineer) is a doctor, an EET (electrical engineer tech) is a nurse. Same field, different workload/responsibilities.

WTF was I getting at? Oh yeah, Tranquill would most likely take the lighter tech classes, which many athletes have successfully navigated while at Purdue (not without rigor though of course).

Purdue Engineering is VERY respected on the West Coast for the reasons Lax pointed on: the school produces great analytical types who may lack the leadership qualities guys from the Stanford type schools have, but are too notch with the X's and O's related with their field and generally don't have the diva traits some of those guys do.

 

[Irish#1]

Purdue has a comparable if not better program. But it's near impossible to play football and engineer.... If not impossible

Purdue's core strengths are engineering and agriculture. I believe more astronauts have graduated from Purdue than any other university. I think most if not all were in their engineering programs.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Purdue is a damn good engineering school. They're probably even elite. As it is with all of the B1G schools, they all have good engineering programs and they all have some elite programs and some above average programs. I've always heard that Purdue is the bee's knees in Aerospace, Biological, and Civil.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Purdue Engineering is VERY respected on the West Coast for the reasons Lax pointed on: the school produces great analytical types who may lack the leadership qualities guys from the Stanford type schools have, but are too notch with the X's and O's related with their field and generally don't have the diva traits some of those guys do.

I'm sure Purdue has their fair share of those leadership guys too though. And of course, it's all about the individual. The B1G schools all have gigantic budgets and huge students populations to weed out what student can and can't learn the math/science on their own.

Stanford though is of course on another level (overall). I once took a business class there and was blown away at the student responses. The professor once gave us slides from a company and had to ask the class to "be respectful of this information and don't use it to start your own company with it." On the other end of the internet feed, our T.A. asked us to "please read it by Monday." haha

 

[md_bennett]

Georgia Tech has some really strong programs. But as Whiskey will tell you, they have atrocious graduation rates and I doubt many (if any) players are getting engineering degrees.

The grad rates are actually pretty comparable to the number in each freshman class to graduate from GT. It's an incredibly difficult work load for just the average student because of the format for most of the core classes. I transferred out after a year because I could not handle engineering the way they did it. I found a different career path altogether. A very few can play football and get that degree there - I remember the starting QB did in 2001.

 

[NDhoosier]

Purdue is no joke when it comes to Engineering and Agriculture. As much as I dislike Purdue, when someone tells you they are going to Purdue for Engineering, they automatically get that "wow" factor. Lot of farmers in Indiana and lots of people try to get into Purdue for Agriculture to eventually take over their father's farm.

I still think he flips though, ND has a respectable engineering program and I think at the end of the day, football is what will persuade him.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The more technical the discipline, the more important the particular program and the less important the overall university.

 

[Irish YJ]

Can y'all start an "Engineering" thread or something....

 

[IrishLax]

Can y'all start an "Engineering" thread or something....

All these posts are getting moved to the "OT posts formerly..." as soon as I get a break.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Quick story tying engineering to agriculture: went to Purdue with a buddy that graduated with a 3.8 in mechanical engineering, and then went to UT Austin for law school. Landed his dream job in Chicago, got married, and had the life many would lust after.

A few months after everything was in place for him, his father passed away, and he had to move back to the family farm to keep it going. Sad stuff.

 

[RDU Irish]

I would be curious to see football players at ANY school who complete engineering degrees. It's just a ridiculously demanding major and I can't fathom how someone could find enough hours in the day. For the life of me I don't understand why they don't just make it a five year program instead of beating up the students so bad and driving lots of good folks out of the sciences.

I guess I was always under the impression Purdue engineering was top notch. Wasn't it pretty much an astronaut incubator for a while? Maybe that was long ago and maybe it never was, just the impression I had growing up.

 

[dublinirish]

I would be curious to see football players at ANY school who complete engineering degrees. It's just a ridiculously demanding major and I can't fathom how someone could find enough hours in the day. For the life of me I don't understand why they don't just make it a five year program instead of beating up the students so bad and driving lots of good folks out of the sciences.

I guess I was always under the impression Purdue engineering was top notch. Wasn't it pretty much an astronaut incubator for a while? Maybe that was long ago and maybe it never was, just the impression I had growing up.

yeah Neil Armstrong of course for one, then a bunch of others too;
Purdue in Space

 

[RDU Irish]

yeah Neil Armstrong of course for one, then a bunch of others too;
Purdue in Space

Thx - any insight on part II - is the program worth a sh!t? That is like rock stars of engineering I would think, very flashy promotion for the program. That doesn't then mean they are superior engineers, just connected to the right people.

I'm just kind of surprised to here anecdotal evidence that Purdue engineers are discounted over others when I always thought they would have a slight leg up in the profession. Again, that can differ greatly from electrical to mechanical to other specialties.

 

[Irish52]

Engineer degrees

Engineer degrees

Sometime ago, Purdue was in the top 5 for Mechanical Engineering: ND was in the top 5 for Chemical and Civil Engineering. We still rank very hifh in both fields. Direct comparison depends on a lot of factors, especially the intelligence and dedication of the students. Both schools are excellent regardless of the field of study chosen. His decision should be based on post graduation value and/or post NFL value.

 

[RDU Irish]

Thanks for the insight. I think his basing his decision on engineering school is irrelevant if nobody has graduated from either engineering school AND played football, ever. It would be really interesting to see if it has been done anywhere at all. I suspect if it has the kid was some type of genius on top of being run of the mill smart and hard working.

 

[Cackalacky]

Thanks for the insight. I think his basing his decision on engineering school is irrelevant if nobody has graduated from either engineering school AND played football, ever. It would be really interesting to see if it has been done anywhere at all. I suspect if it has the kid was some type of genius on top of being run of the mill smart and hard working.

For the record, I worked 40+ hours per week at my day job and finished my civil engineering degree in 4 years (includes doing multiple summer sessions) at The Citadel. We had numerous basketball, football, and baseball players complete the program while I was there in addition to their duties as cadets. I don't think it is impossible but it will be very tough. My program was very broad and prepared me for the EIT exams. My spring senior semester included geotech II, Steel design, Wastewater/Environmental Design, a semester long 3-hour lab that consisted of designing a 10-story building from top to bottom in a small team, and two labs. It was hard to keep that pace up for four years TBH but I did it.

 

[Irish Storm]

One of them writes, 'Have fun losing to crappy ACC teams...'


I suppose they WOULD be the experts on that.

They just beat Alabama and Oregon to win the National title.

We are still losing to crappy teams like Pitt and Northwestern.

I'm not trying to be snarky but the reality is that we are not in their league on the football field.

Academics are another thing but honestly, if you want it you can get a really good degree from almost anywhere.

 

[Irish YJ]

They just beat Alabama and Oregon to win the National title.

We are still losing to crappy teams like Pitt and Northwestern.

I'm not trying to be snarky but the reality is that we are not in their league on the football field.

Academics are another thing but honestly, if you want it you can get a really good degree from almost anywhere.

Agree. We are making incremental gains in talent but we still have a way to go. I do think we'll see a lot of progress on the D side. The O is still a wildcard to me, primarily in the QB space. IMO we could end up in the playoff if things progress, or could fall out of the top 25 entirely if TOs become a factor again. Ready for the season to start.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

'16 OH OT Liam Eichenberg (Offer)

'16 OH OT Liam Eichenberg (Offer)

One of them writes, 'Have fun losing to crappy ACC teams...'


I suppose they WOULD be the experts on that.

I don't understand what this means.

Edit: I get it because they lost to VA Tech. But dude they just won the national title. And pretty much beat down Bama and Oregon.

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[greyhammer90]

I don't understand what this means.


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Who did OSU lose to last year?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Who did OSU lose to last year?

I edited my post. But still silly comment IMO. They won the National Title!


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