Oct 17 | Louisville

[Irishize]

I’m not a fan of the pre-determined pass plays. Two in particular were the one to Austin on his only target last week. Had Book checked down, he had a wide open receiver. Same deal w/ the pass to McKinley on the first drive.TE was wide open (Can’t recall if it was Mayer or Tremble). Luckily, UL bailed ND out w/ a penalty on that incompletion.

To be fair to Book, most of the incompletions were McKinley drops. And then there was the initial TD pass to Austin where he couldn’t get a foot down.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I’m not a fan of the pre-determined pass plays. Two in particular were the one to Austin on his only target last week. Had Book checked down, he had a wide open receiver. Same deal w/ the pass to McKinley on the first drive.TE was wide open (Can’t recall if it was Mayer or Tremble). Luckily, UL bailed ND out w/ a penalty on that incompletion.

To be fair to Book, most of the incompletions were McKinley drops. And then there was the initial TD pass to Austin where he couldn’t get a foot down.

Agreed +1

 

[Irishize]

I'll also add, it's really nice that we're in a position where we can nitpick ugly wins while we're a top 5 team. As a 2010 grad, I'm still happy we can actually pull these out.

You’re right but you have to admit ND got a lot of help from UL. Not just the penalties that bailed ND out but the near interceptions that UL should’ve made. If ND continues this pace, we can’t rely on the other team to shoot themselves in their collective feet each game. Sooner or later the ball bounces the other way, Murphy’s Law kicks in &/or the opponent is just better. I predict UL goes back to having a porous defense this week against whoever their opponent may be.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Imagine what would be if the fake punt against Duke wouldn't have gone for a first down????


This site (plus my laptop screen) would have melted.



Fortunate so far to be where the Irish is sitting.



Something needs to change - and quickly on offense.

 

[ResLife Hero]

Not to be ugly but, Louisville shot themselves in the foot with the onside-kick.



The Irish helped with the fake-FG too.


Jus' Say'n

Yeah, and we used to lose those games really ugly. My point is, we can argue about game plan and adjustments, but let's not lose sight of the fact that we now expect to win these. As someone who didn't grow up on the brand, this is the best I've felt about the program. That said, if they get that ball and score, don't just assume the rest of the game goes unchanged. I really never questioned the outcome this weekend.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Yeah, and we used to lose those games really ugly. My point is, we can argue about game plan and adjustments, but let's not lose sight of the fact that we now expect to win these. As someone who didn't grow up on the brand, this is the best I've felt about the program. That said, if they get that ball and score, don't just assume the rest of the game goes unchanged. I really never questioned the outcome this weekend.

I understand.


I'm 52 years in the tooth. I've seen my share of 'cliff-hangers'.

 

[Ndaccountant]

The thing I saw against Duke and showed up again against Louisville is Rees seems to come in with a goal and doesn't move off that point. Those 2 games its led to a final score that doesn't reflect the game. I get we wanted to challenge their secondary and work on the outside zone, but they were taking big risks with the assumption our line would stick to pure zone principles, and it paid off. I'm not normally a RTDB guy, but I think we left points on the field being stubborn with passing.

It's a good point and I think this is part of the impact of Covid. Without Spring and a severely disrupted Fall practice schedule, coupled with injuries, the passing game is obviously off. I don't see a fault coming into a game thinking you wanted to work on some passing. However, you can do that without abandoning the run.

I have seen many things so far that has been a pleasant surprise with Tommy calling plays. But the on/off with misdirection, considering the challenges we have with the WR's, is the one thing I don't understand. We utilize the counters and traps in the running game and it works great. I just don't know why we don't use it to up the passing game. I mentioned in another thread that I would scrap the slot position and just use Tyree and Williams moving in and out of the backfield to create mismatches in both the passing and running game. There is no way the opposition would want a LB on Tyree running a wheel route out of the backfield. But we need to do that 7 times a game versus 1 or 2.

 

[pumpdog20]

All this whining about Book not being the guy. Let's pretend you're right. There's nothing we can do about it right now. We aren't putting in Clark or Pyne, and risking them pulling a Book a la 2018 and the next thing we know, TB is transferring to UCLA. No thanks, I'm riding with Book one more year.

 

[Irishize]

All this whining about Book not being the guy. Let's pretend you're right. There's nothing we can do about it right now. We aren't putting in Clark or Pyne, and risking them pulling a Book a la 2018 and the next thing we know, TB is transferring to UCLA. No thanks, I'm riding with Book one more year.

This is what all ND fans need to accept. Nothing wrong w/ being frustrated about how Phil & ND worked out but it’s done and he’s gone. Book is the only QB on the roster equipped to lead ND to the ACC Champ Game &/or CFP. I understand he will continue to be criticized as that comes w/ being the QB at ND but know at the end of the day....barring a catastrophe...he’s the guy through 2020.

 

[ThePiombino]

All this whining about Book not being the guy. Let's pretend you're right. There's nothing we can do about it right now. We aren't putting in Clark or Pyne, and risking them pulling a Book a la 2018 and the next thing we know, TB is transferring to UCLA. No thanks, I'm riding with Book one more year.

If PJ was 3/4 as good as we thought he would be, he'd be starting right now. Turns out he wasn't 1/4 as good. Same goes for Buchner. If he's as good as we think, won't matter who takes snaps this season.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Irishize]

If PJ was 3/4 as good as we thought he would be, he'd be starting right now. Turns out he wasn't 1/4 as good. Same goes for Buchner. If he's as good as we think, won't matter who takes snaps this season.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Agreed. If Buchner wants to start as a true freshman (I assume he does), he should learn from Phil’s mistake of finishing his senior year in HS vs enrolling early. I get you’re only a senior once & the prom & other sports, etc but how bad do you want to be the starting QB at ND from day one? I believe Phil not enrolling early stunted his growth. Not saying BK & staff weren’t responsible for his lack of development but I can’t think of many top HS QBs who don’t enroll early.

 

[BeatSC]

Ian Book would beat out Tom Brady by a couple miles in the same year as TB’s development at Michigan. I’ll never understand the Debbie downers when it comes to the quarterback situation. You have to have a receiver or 2 that can separate himself and catch the damn ball when it’s thrown to them...

sorry man but he is the reason we aren't playing the backups by halftime. HE has missed seeing many an open target and also missed hitting the open target. Some of his short throws have regressed either too high too hard or just not on target. We expect and need more. Who wouldn't want all those TEs talented and productive RBs and that Oline to work with? no excuse that he shouldn't be producing more. Lucky he hasn't been intercepted more as well. HE needs to make sure he doesn't slide 3 yards short of a first down. Kid can run and needs to pull it in on more read options. Trevor Lawrence would find a way to make some downfield connections with this receiving corp. He looked this good his first year and more inconsistent as things went on. Just like Rees, his best year was probably his first year. We deserve a true legit top talent that delivers on their upside. I don't think anyone including Book expected this much of him so not bad considering he would not be starting D1 anywhere else.

I am hooked on the Wimbush big game performance against USC in 2017. My fav game in the past decade.

Some day the second coming of TD Joe will come our way.

 

[NorthDakota]

sorry man but he is the reason we aren't playing the backups by halftime. HE has missed seeing many an open target and also missed hitting the open target. Some of his short throws have regressed either too high too hard or just not on target. We expect and need more. Who wouldn't want all those TEs talented and productive RBs and that Oline to work with? no excuse that he shouldn't be producing more. Lucky he hasn't been intercepted more as well. HE needs to make sure he doesn't slide 3 yards short of a first down. Kid can run and needs to pull it in on more read options. Trevor Lawrence would find a way to make some downfield connections with this receiving corp. He looked this good his first year and more inconsistent as things went on. Just like Rees, his best year was probably his first year. We deserve a true legit top talent that delivers on their upside. I don't think anyone including Book expected this much of him so not bad considering he would not be starting D1 anywhere else.

I am hooked on the Wimbush big game performance against USC in 2017. My fav game in the past decade.

Some day the second coming of TD Joe will come our way.

I just want a bona fide top ten qb in the country playing for Notre Dame. It gets real old looking at quarterbacks at other major programs who look pretty good with less talent around them.

I want an offense that can effectively attack a defense at every level. Its really frustrating when North Dakota State has had substantially better quarterbacks than Notre Dame over the last decade.

I'm not demanding that we have some Peyton Manning/Lamar Jackson hybrid, just want a dude who can stand back there and make the throws that keeps a defense honest and who has the talent to run the show in South Bend.

And I think we are all aware ND doesn't have the best receiving Corps, but i refuse to believe that's the reason the passing game isn't doing well.

 

[Old Man Mike]

... but it's a pretty big reason.

 

[317Irish]

Some people think that the old stereotype that “short quarterbacks have a hard time seeing the field” has been disproven because a few guys have done exceptionally well, but there’s reasoning behind it. I’m not saying it’s 100% the case here, but his height looks to be a contributing factor to why he just can’t see the field well. I’m a hair over 6’ tall and have been right next to Ian book, and the dude is like 5’11” tops. I appreciate Book for all that he can do, but he just might not ever fully develop the trust that the guy running a shallow cross is open unless he has a clear view of him. Same with deep and over the middle. I would have thought that by his senior year he would have developed more of an intuition and confidence in what he knows will be, but some QB’s struggle with what they can’t visibly see.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I just want a bona fide top ten qb in the country playing for Notre Dame. It gets real old looking at quarterbacks at other major programs who look pretty good with less talent around them.

I want an offense that can effectively attack a defense at every level. Its really frustrating when North Dakota State has had substantially better quarterbacks than Notre Dame over the last decade.

I'm not demanding that we have some Peyton Manning/Lamar Jackson hybrid, just want a dude who can stand back there and make the throws that keeps a defense honest and who has the talent to run the show in South Bend.

And I think we are all aware ND doesn't have the best receiving Corps, but i refuse to believe that's the reason the passing game isn't doing well.

A few things:

What major program has QB's looking pretty good with less talent around them? Michigan hasn't had a legitimately good QB since Harblow took over and he was supposed to be a QB guru who took Andrew Luck to the next level. Florida may (keyword MAY) have finally found something in Kyle Trask, but prior to that, they've had nothing but mediocre QB play since Tebow graduated. Look at UGA since Stafford left in '09. Or hell, take away the one freak year from Burrow in '19, LSU's QB play has been mediocre at best since the days of Matt Flynn and they've had some ridiculous receiver talent. USC has consistently some of the highest end receiver talent, but they haven't had a QB who has consistently been really good since Captain Butt-Fumble. Darnold took the world by surprise in '16, but everybody caught on to his game in '17 and his stats suffered. Remains to be seen with Slovis, but my guess is that he won't catch the CFB world napping a second time around.

The reality is that there are very few truly elite QB's who can transcend the talent around them. Most of the QB's at major programs are solid to good, and are amplified or diminished by the talent around them.

Book is a solid QB, but let's be real, the receiving talent is not where it needs to be. McKinley and Skowronek are solid depth pieces, but they wouldn't start at any major program. Hell, put them on Ohio State, Clemson or Bama's roster, they're never seeing any meaningful snaps.

Book is hesitant to throw and a big reason why I think that is is because he doesn't trust his receivers' ability. I can't say I blame him given what we saw from McKinley on Saturday. It's why Austin and Lenzy need to return in a full capacity IMMEDIATELY.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I just want a bona fide top ten qb in the country playing for Notre Dame. It gets real old looking at quarterbacks at other major programs who look pretty good with less talent around them.

I want an offense that can effectively attack a defense at every level. Its really frustrating when North Dakota State has had substantially better quarterbacks than Notre Dame over the last decade.

I'm not demanding that we have some Peyton Manning/Lamar Jackson hybrid, just want a dude who can stand back there and make the throws that keeps a defense honest and who has the talent to run the show in South Bend.

And I think we are all aware ND doesn't have the best receiving Corps, but i refuse to believe that's the reason the passing game isn't doing well.

Bingo.

Makes you wonder what is being said behind closed doors. what the BK/Tommy discussion are like when media isnt around. Do they accept Book is just not "it" or do they keep with the excuses for his low performance?

When the Louisville QB blows the ND QB away with a LOT less talent on his side, you have to at some point start asking some serious questions.

 

[Old Man Mike]

... also, our OLine guys are monsters tall and wide. They pass-pro block in the manner of ZMart --- stand and PUNCH --- then two-step footwork dance and PUNCH. Banks Patterson and Kraemer are not going down and cutting anyone during pass-pro. They are shuffling mile high and wide hills of nasty protein like dancing Kodiaks. It is obvious that this is how they are trained. That wall is going to be there every play. Those mountains DO bend a little, but watch the game replays from behind Book to see how very little lowering of that horizon really happens.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Bingo.

Makes you wonder what is being said behind closed doors. what the BK/Tommy discussion are like when media isnt around. Do they accept Book is just not "it" or do they keep with the excuses for his low performance?

When the Louisville QB blows the ND QB away with a LOT less talent on his side, you have to at some point start asking some serious questions.

You are either severely overrating our receiving talent or severely underrating Louisville's.

No disrespect to McKinley, Davis or Skowronek, but I would take Louisville's starting receivers over them in a millisecond. They are MUCH more talented.

Atwell, Fitzpatrick, Hawkins and Ford. That is some serious skill position talent.

If Austin, Lenzy and Keys were available in a full capacity, then there would be an argument to be made, but they weren't, and ND's lack of talent at receiver was very apparent.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

You are either severely overrating our receiving talent or severely underrating Louisville's.

No disrespect to McKinley, Davis or Skowronek, but I would take Louisville's starting receivers over them in a millisecond. They are MUCH more talented.

Atwell, Fitzpatrick, Hawkins and Ford. That is some serious skill position talent.

If Austin, Lenzy and Keys were available in a full capacity, then there would be an argument to be made, but they weren't, and ND's lack of talent at receiver was very apparent.

Well, I would take their quarterback too.

Last year ND had Claypool, Kmet and Finke. That kind of talent and experience elevated Book’s QBR (which is a measure passing game efficiency more than the QB alone) to 19h in the country. That seems underwhelming given the OL and what Claypool is doing to NFL defenses. For that reason I was happy to see Chip Long leave.

So, sure, WR is a weakness but underwhelming results in the passing game aren’t a new phenomenon.

 

[Wingman Ray]

You are either severely overrating our receiving talent or severely underrating Louisville's.

No disrespect to McKinley, Davis or Skowronek, but I would take Louisville's starting receivers over them in a millisecond. They are MUCH more talented.

Atwell, Fitzpatrick, Hawkins and Ford. That is some serious skill position talent.

If Austin, Lenzy and Keys were available in a full capacity, then there would be an argument to be made, but they weren't, and ND's lack of talent at receiver was very apparent.

Except the OL and RB of LV suck. Or at least really suck compared to NDs.

And the LV defense is a joke.

So basically, there is no argument. You can say LV > ND in the WR but ND wins all the other comparisons. So at the end of the day, my initial argument was valid.

IF ND had LVs exact same defense, LV would have won that game hands down.

 

[BeauBenken]

Sorry guys. But I must come clean.


It is my fault our offense was so underwhelming. Due to a function I was hosting, I was unable to adorn my typical gear on Saturday.


At least I watched the game though! I can't imagine if I wouldn't have been watching the game...

 

[BeauBenken]

That being said, I promise to wear my stuff for the Pitt game. I expect it to be a statement game of sorts with me adorning my gear once more.

 

[Luckylucci]

Sorry guys. But I must come clean.


It is my fault our offense was so underwhelming. Due to a function I was hosting, I was unable to adorn my typical gear on Saturday.


At least I watched the game though! I can't imagine if I wouldn't have been watching the game...

Not cool, Beau! You could have saved me a lot of time opining about Book and the offense.

 

[tko]

Worst ICON video ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BeauBenken]

Not cool, Beau! You could have saved me a lot of time opining about Book and the offense.

Oh I know. But I just felt so personally responsible it was so hard to come clean. I was a nervous wreck.



<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/5ZUpMAtxpo0NO" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/chris-farley-tommy-boy-cinema-supremo-5ZUpMAtxpo0NO">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[NorthDakota]

A few things:

What major program has QB's looking pretty good with less talent around them? Michigan hasn't had a legitimately good QB since Harblow took over and he was supposed to be a QB guru who took Andrew Luck to the next level. Florida may (keyword MAY) have finally found something in Kyle Trask, but prior to that, they've had nothing but mediocre QB play since Tebow graduated. Look at UGA since Stafford left in '09. Or hell, take away the one freak year from Burrow in '19, LSU's QB play has been mediocre at best since the days of Matt Flynn and they've had some ridiculous receiver talent. USC has consistently some of the highest end receiver talent, but they haven't had a QB who has consistently been really good since Captain Butt-Fumble. Darnold took the world by surprise in '16, but everybody caught on to his game in '17 and his stats suffered. Remains to be seen with Slovis, but my guess is that he won't catch the CFB world napping a second time around.

The reality is that there are very few truly elite QB's who can transcend the talent around them. Most of the QB's at major programs are solid to good, and are amplified or diminished by the talent around them.

Book is a solid QB, but let's be real, the receiving talent is not where it needs to be. McKinley and Skowronek are solid depth pieces, but they wouldn't start at any major program. Hell, put them on Ohio State, Clemson or Bama's roster, they're never seeing any meaningful snaps.

Book is hesitant to throw and a big reason why I think that is is because he doesn't trust his receivers' ability. I can't say I blame him given what we saw from McKinley on Saturday. It's why Austin and Lenzy need to return in a full capacity IMMEDIATELY.

Michigan has been in a QB wilderness as well as ND.
Georgia has had two bjectively good quarterbacks over the years (Aaron Murray, Fromm). I think any ND fan would be very happy to have either of those two right now.

LSU has caught all sorts of hell for bad QB play and they deserve it.

I think it shows how high the standard is at USC for quarterbacks if you are taking a dump on Sam Darnold. Matt Barkley was pretty good as well.

The point I'm trying to make is if you gave Notre Dame any of those dudes right now, we'd score more than 12 against Louisville.

 

[ulukinatme]

Sam Darnold and Matt Barkley had a wealth of skill position players to throw to though, in a conference that only has two teams that really play stout defense in Washington and Stanford. Guys like Juju, Amon-Ra, Pittman, and even Adoree Jackson when he came over from DB. Any of those guys are light years ahead of our current WRs.

 

[Irish#1]

... also, our OLine guys are monsters tall and wide. They pass-pro block in the manner of ZMart --- stand and PUNCH --- then two-step footwork dance and PUNCH. Banks Patterson and Kraemer are not going down and cutting anyone during pass-pro. They are shuffling mile high and wide hills of nasty protein like dancing Kodiaks. It is obvious that this is how they are trained. That wall is going to be there every play. Those mountains DO bend a little, but watch the game replays from behind Book to see how very little lowering of that horizon really happens.

lol............I like it.

 

[dublinirish]

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