ND's Current Class Ranking

Luckylucci

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I think it will be lower, if for no other reason than because we should really have no more than approximately 20 prospects in it. I expect the quality to be very good though, consistent with a top 3-6 type class.

So, I've been operating under that assumption for awhile but did you see TJ's comments when asked about this last week? I may have misunderstood what he was implying but it sure sounded like he said that there are some guys that won't be coming back that seemed like locks which would make the class bigger.
 

Ironman8

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So, I've been operating under that assumption for awhile but did you see TJ's comments when asked about this last week? I may have misunderstood what he was implying but it sure sounded like he said that there are some guys that won't be coming back that seemed like locks which would make the class bigger.

Yeah I took that as being bigger than the projected like 16 open slots we have right now. I think we do get to 20 with attrition, but I'd be willing to bet we don't hit 23 like the past 2 years.
 

Emcee77

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So, I've been operating under that assumption for awhile but did you see TJ's comments when asked about this last week? I may have misunderstood what he was implying but it sure sounded like he said that there are some guys that won't be coming back that seemed like locks which would make the class bigger.

Interesting. Did you have the impression that he had specific guys in mind, or was he just saying that we are bound to have some attrition, without knowing who would be leaving?
 

ndfb3

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Breaking Down the Buzz: Notre Dame - CBSSports.com

What they're saying is ... meh. The strangest part of all of this is that nobody seems all that excited about the class. Generally when a school is ranked in the top ten the fans are excited about it. Yet, while they aren't exactly distraught, the Irish fans on the message boards are kind of blase about the whole thing. Here's a sample of things being said on Blue Gold Illustrated and One Foot Down.
 
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Pachuco

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Breaking Down the Buzz: Notre Dame - CBSSports.com

What they're saying is ... meh. The strangest part of all of this is that nobody seems all that excited about the class. Generally when a school is ranked in the top ten the fans are excited about it. Yet, while they aren't exactly distraught, the Irish fans on the message boards are kind of blase about the whole thing. Here's a sample of things being said on Blue Gold Illustrated and One Foot Down.

Let me preface this response by stating that I'm a Spurs fan.

I ride or die with players who want to work hard and play as a team, however seemingly "boring" on the surface.

This class seems full of those type of players.

Self-motivated unknowns who love the organization and want to win.

Ultimately, the proof is all in how it manifests into wins, but I think these guys will prove many people wrong, including skeptical fans.

Great class that fulfills some important needs.

It'd be nice if they'd interview/keep in mind more than just the skeptics.

I suppose ND has had it's fair share of overestimating, and this is just the repercussion of years of falling under the weight of hype.
 

Luckylucci

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Interesting. Did you have the impression that he had specific guys in mind, or was he just saying that we are bound to have some attrition, without knowing who would be leaving?

So this is the post from a member of II.

I could see Rabasa, Schmidt, Daniels, Carlisle, Brown, Farley all gone.

I'd assume Golson and Nick Martin are a lock for 2 of the spots as our starting QB and center.

So out of this group we see only 4-5 guys coming back?
Hegarty will be starter/back up next year
Hanratty will be starter/back up next year
Springman will be starter/back up next year
Hounshell will be in the 2 deep if healthy
Councell will be the only true DOG back up behind Jaylon
Grace will be a starter
Hardy will be in the 2 deep at a position that will loose 5 guys over the next 2 years

Is the staff really ready to not ask back 2-3 valuable guys who are expected to contribute at a high level?

To which TJ basically said that all of the players that are in quesiton (bolded) need to make their case to return. Which for me, guys like Councell, Grace, and Springman was kind of shocking. However, Ironman had a good way of looking at it so credit to him.

Hounshell or Springman
Hegarty or Hanratty
Councell and Hardy if they contribute
Most likely Grace.
 
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The one thing that bothers me about this class, same as past few, is the lack of overall speed. We have some good players, but we are going to lack overall speed at LB and DB with the exception of a few players. Also, our WR aren't particularly fast. I think that is why we may struggle with some of the TX and SEC teams that regularly recruit multiple depths of speed with every class.
 

Brooklyn

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The one thing that bothers me about this class, same as past few, is the lack of overall speed. We have some good players, but we are going to lack overall speed at LB and DB with the exception of a few players. Also, our WR aren't particularly fast. I think that is why we may struggle with some of the TX and SEC teams that regularly recruit multiple depths of speed with every class.

I disagree. This class is faster than some of the other most recent ones. Especially on defense.
 

Emcee77

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So this is the post from a member of II.

I could see Rabasa, Schmidt, Daniels, Carlisle, Brown, Farley all gone.

I'd assume Golson and Nick Martin are a lock for 2 of the spots as our starting QB and center.

So out of this group we see only 4-5 guys coming back?
Hegarty will be starter/back up next year
Hanratty will be starter/back up next year
Springman will be starter/back up next year
Hounshell will be in the 2 deep if healthy
Councell will be the only true DOG back up behind Jaylon
Grace will be a starter
Hardy will be in the 2 deep at a position that will loose 5 guys over the next 2 years

Is the staff really ready to not ask back 2-3 valuable guys who are expected to contribute at a high level?

To which TJ basically said that all of the players that are in quesiton (bolded) need to make their case to return. Which for me, guys like Councell, Grace, and Springman was kind of shocking. However, Ironman had a good way of looking at it so credit to him.

Hounshell or Springman
Hegarty or Hanratty
Councell and Hardy if they contribute
Most likely Grace.

Oh I see thanks. At first I thought you were talking about guys who will transfer out before the season starts.

Yeah, 5Y decisions could be tough next year. It will be interesting to see how strong some of these guys come back from injury and what kind of seasons they have next year.
 

irishfanjho15

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So this is the post from a member of II.

I could see Rabasa, Schmidt, Daniels, Carlisle, Brown, Farley all gone.

I'd assume Golson and Nick Martin are a lock for 2 of the spots as our starting QB and center.

So out of this group we see only 4-5 guys coming back?
Hegarty will be starter/back up next year
Hanratty will be starter/back up next year
Springman will be starter/back up next year
Hounshell will be in the 2 deep if healthy
Councell will be the only true DOG back up behind Jaylon
Grace will be a starter
Hardy will be in the 2 deep at a position that will loose 5 guys over the next 2 years

Is the staff really ready to not ask back 2-3 valuable guys who are expected to contribute at a high level?

To which TJ basically said that all of the players that are in quesiton (bolded) need to make their case to return. Which for me, guys like Councell, Grace, and Springman was kind of shocking. However, Ironman had a good way of looking at it so credit to him.

Hounshell or Springman
Hegarty or Hanratty
Councell and Hardy if they contribute
Most likely Grace.

In the Scholarship Breakdown Thread I suggested the following:

I just don't see it. Farley, Hardy, Hanratty, Carlise, and Hegarty are all highly doubtful to come back. Especially with the quality young players at those positions.

I could see a situation (depth worries) where Springmann, Hounshell, and Councell get asked back to go with Golson, Daniels, Grace, and Martin, but the other guys are all long shots IMHO.

I'd be surprised if we take more than six 5th years.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football-recruiting/190805-2015-scholarship-roster-breakdown.html#post1226505

I'll add that I think Daniels will decline fifth year and go to the draft. Then I believe maybe one of Hanratty or Hegarty could be asked back.

So I could see the following coming back for 5th years:
1. Golson
2. Martin
3. Springmann
4. Councell
5. Grace
6. Hanratty/Hegarty

I hope a lack of fifth year offers would signal steady progress by younger players. I think only taking six 5th years next year would mean two things a strong, full recruiting class and younger guys being ready for quality depth roles.
 
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The one thing that bothers me about this class, same as past few, is the lack of overall speed. We have some good players, but we are going to lack overall speed at LB and DB with the exception of a few players. Also, our WR aren't particularly fast. I think that is why we may struggle with some of the TX and SEC teams that regularly recruit multiple depths of speed with every class.

They do have more speed this year than in year's past, I will give you that. But we are still getting LB with 4.7. And we got a DB who has great speed who has to hit because we lack depth there overall and in this class.

Regardless of skill, defending the spread means not recruiting the slow LB and CB.

We have two DE prospects with great speed, but as they bulk up they may loose some of that. We have one DT with standout speed for the position, and the WR are solid speed wise.

I should amend my statement to say that while we did get some decent speed this year, our team overall still lacks speed on the depth chart. We will need 2-3 more classes of guys with above average speed to be able to play with the better teams in the country, especially those that run the spread or the top SEC-type teams whose entire roster is fast.

That is, if you want to play for a national championship. Right now we may be BCS quality in the next year or so, but I doubt we could keep up with the top 2-4 teams in the country straight up.

In a couple of years with these types of classes, maybe.
 

IrishLax

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Nobody has a clue right now who'll be back for a 5th year. We won't have any idea until about 3/4 of the way through the season, and won't have a truly accurate picture until January '15.

Exercise in futility to try to figure things out right now.
 

Brooklyn

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They do have more speed this year than in year's past, I will give you that. But we are still getting LB with 4.7. And we got a DB who has great speed who has to hit because we lack depth there overall and in this class.

Regardless of skill, defending the spread means not recruiting the slow LB and CB.

We have two DE prospects with great speed, but as they bulk up they may loose some of that. We have one DT with standout speed for the position, and the WR are solid speed wise.

I should amend my statement to say that while we did get some decent speed this year, our team overall still lacks speed on the depth chart. We will need 2-3 more classes of guys with above average speed to be able to play with the better teams in the country, especially those that run the spread or the top SEC-type teams whose entire roster is fast.

That is, if you want to play for a national championship. Right now we may be BCS quality in the next year or so, but I doubt we could keep up with the top 2-4 teams in the country straight up.

In a couple of years with these types of classes, maybe.

With linebackers long speed isnt very important. The linebackers we got in this class fly to the ball and are sideline to sideline guys. Sykes, Morgan, Martini and Hill all are very athletic. In addition we have guys like Trumbetti, Tranquill, Watkins who are very good speed athletes also. This is one class that I would say we got very good speed. Not everyone can be a Jaylon Smith but we got extremely good athletes in this class.

I agree with that we need to add more speed all around, but BVG seems to be heading into the less size, more speed direction which I agree with at the linebacker position. A linebacking group of Smith-Morgan-Martini is easily the most athletic we've had here in BK's time here though. Future is bright.
 

Ironman8

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Nobody has a clue right now who'll be back for a 5th year. We won't have any idea until about 3/4 of the way through the season, and won't have a truly accurate picture until January '15.

Exercise in futility to try to figure things out right now.

I think it's actually way easier to see who is coming back for '16 (hint: almost no one) than for '15 - and I think that is a factor that the coaching staff has to keep in mind when offering additional prospects vs. giving 5th years in '15.
 

Luckylucci

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I think it's actually way easier to see who is coming back for '16 (hint: almost no one) than for '15 - and I think that is a factor that the coaching staff has to keep in mind when offering additional prospects vs. giving 5th years in '15.

This is what I hadn't thought of yet.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I disagree. This class is faster than some of the other most recent ones. Especially on defense.

I strongly agree!

They do have more speed this year than in year's past, I will give you that. But we are still getting LB with 4.7. And we got a DB who has great speed who has to hit because we lack depth there overall and in this class.

Regardless of skill, defending the spread means not recruiting the slow LB and CB.

We have two DE prospects with great speed, but as they bulk up they may loose some of that. We have one DT with standout speed for the position, and the WR are solid speed wise.

I should amend my statement to say that while we did get some decent speed this year, our team overall still lacks speed on the depth chart. We will need 2-3 more classes of guys with above average speed to be able to play with the better teams in the country, especially those that run the spread or the top SEC-type teams whose entire roster is fast.

That is, if you want to play for a national championship. Right now we may be BCS quality in the next year or so, but I doubt we could keep up with the top 2-4 teams in the country straight up.

In a couple of years with these types of classes, maybe.

My problem in the past, in recruiting, with conversations like these is that I believed the standard bull shit. It is recruiting. Free market sales rules apply. Let the buyer beware. It is like the "super fast defensive player that was winding up as Kelly came in. Apparently he ran a 4.5 forty. The staff said bull shit and timed him. 4.8. His draft stock showed it, too.

Some of these guys come in claiming exquisite times. And then everyone claims that, oh they slowed down as they bulked up and got stronger. What a load if feces. I always assumed that kids got faster than ancient times when I played. Now I am thinking not so much.

There are a couple reasons that I think there is so much confusion, mystery and drama. A0.1 second increment in a forty may not even be a stride. Each of the differences between being in a uniform, on grass, hand down, hand or laser timed, and how you count the start and finished, can make a 30% difference on a given individual time.

Our old coach made us start from our normal positional stance in full equipment, on the field and he started the stopwatch at your first twitch. Because the only thing he used it for is to pick the guys on punt coverage (and sometimes kick coverage.) He had other thinks he looked for in determining the likelihood of a player logging game time; how quick were they off the ball in cadence drill?

How quickly could they meet the ball carrier in the cone drill? How good were they at the nutcracker drill? (A lot of people think that drill is entirely about power, but we looked at tape, and 90% of the winners, whether it is the blocker or tackler got into sound position first.)

We could go on, but you get the drift. The fact is in '08 the fastest ND starting linebacker probably ran a 5.03 second 40. That increased to about a 4.8 or so, and the size and playing weigh increased. This last year with Smith and Councell that improved again at the Dog position where you needed it. These guys this year have the strength of the former linebackers, as they came into ND, and much more speed, quickness, and agility. Have you watched their tape? It isn't even close.

So lets not confuse the two things. The general reports of fast 40's on the part of top recruits generally come undone at places like the Opening. And with that the Kelly staff is getting faster kids, that are better athletes and stronger than recent recruits were, (four and more years ago.)

And then you have guys like Williams (especially), Blankenship, Hayes, Trumbetti, Cage, and a couple of others that have tape showing them running down opposing linebackers from behind or bad angles. I mean this is some awesome stuff. Someone estimated on one tape of Jhonny Williams where the running back had quite a head start and he ran over forty yards to catch him and pull him down from behind, he ran the equivalent of a 4.5 second forty. In a game situation. Do I believe this is accurate? I don't care. But the last time we have had such a fast recruit that came in at over 6'6" tall? Let alone two? We may have had one ever. We have two guys in this class alone. And the other one Stephon Tuitt was routinely described by ND fans as a "project," even though he was a fairly solid four star on everyone's list and a five star on one.

Tuitt has done that in the past, and look how he rose in the crop he was recruited with. But this year we have three four, even five guys doing those freakish things. And then we have guys like Drue Tranquill! This class is freakishly faster by a pretty wide margin I believe.

I just don't get it. The more time you take slicing through the recruiting bull shit with this class, better and better it looks!
 
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Whiskeyjack

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I think it's actually way easier to see who is coming back for '16 (hint: almost no one) than for '15 - and I think that is a factor that the coaching staff has to keep in mind when offering additional prospects vs. giving 5th years in '15.

It'll probably be one of the smallest groups of 5Ys Kelly brings back, but I wouldn't call it "almost no one". Based on current productivity, I'd expect Stanley, Jones and Daly to get offers; maybe Prosise as well if he plays himself into one.
 
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gkIrish

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Nobody has a clue right now who'll be back for a 5th year. We won't have any idea until about 3/4 of the way through the season, and won't have a truly accurate picture until January '15.

Exercise in futility to try to figure things out right now.

Exactly. Who could have predicted the 5th year situation we have this year?
 

Ironman8

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It'll probably be one of the smallest groups of 5Ys Kelly brings back, but I wouldn't call it "almost no one". Based on current productivity, I'd expect Stanley, Jones and Daly to get offers; maybe Prosise as well if he plays himself into one.

Jones and Stanley would absolutely get offers, but if they continue to grow and produce, especially Stanley, I could see them leaving in 2 years after getting their degree. In my eyes the only guarantee in that class to come back is Daly, with Jones and Stanley locks if they don't go pro, and Baratti and Prosise as the other possibilities.
 

WakeUpEchoes

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I think I think...<a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> could have the most overlooked class of 2014 -- <a href="http://t.co/g41NpanfST">http://t.co/g41NpanfST</a> -- <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FightingIrish&src=hash">#FightingIrish</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ND&src=hash">#ND</a></p>— Mike Farrell (@rivalsmike) <a href="https://twitter.com/rivalsmike/statuses/435495870143135744">February 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

rocket66

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I think I think...<a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> could have the most overlooked class of 2014 -- <a href="http://t.co/g41NpanfST">http://t.co/g41NpanfST</a> -- <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FightingIrish&src=hash">#FightingIrish</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ND&src=hash">#ND</a></p>— Mike Farrell (@rivalsmike) <a href="https://twitter.com/rivalsmike/statuses/435495870143135744">February 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Thanks for posting. I'd like to see that rundown from one of our rivals subs.
 

Ironman8

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The Michigan 24/7 board presented the following 2 year OL recruiting analysis:

Notre Dame: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9358
Michigan: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9281
Alabama: 14 OLs, Composite Average: .9136
Stanford: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9055
LSU: 11 OLs, Compsite Average: .9045
Ohio State: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9033
Auburn: 11 OLs, Composite Average: .8956
Florida: 14 OLs, Composite Average: .8844
FSU: 14 OLs, Composite Average: .8836

If that doesn't get you pumped for the future of our OL and offense as a whole, I don't know what will. Hiestand is a golden god.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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The Michigan 24/7 board presented the following 2 year OL recruiting analysis:

Notre Dame: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9358
Michigan: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9281
Alabama: 14 OLs, Composite Average: .9136
Stanford: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9055
LSU: 11 OLs, Compsite Average: .9045
Ohio State: 12 OLs, Composite Average: .9033
Auburn: 11 OLs, Composite Average: .8956
Florida: 14 OLs, Composite Average: .8844
FSU: 14 OLs, Composite Average: .8836

If that doesn't get you pumped for the future of our OL and offense as a whole, I don't know what will. Hiestand is a golden god.

Awe-the effing-some!

This brings up the philosophical question : what did Harry do first, bring in the raw talent or develop fully what' he's got?
 

PANDFAN

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>The <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNRNFball">@ESPNRNFball</a> top 10 classes:
10 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23UGA&src=hash">#UGA</a>
9 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ND&src=hash">#ND</a>
8 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Horns&src=hash">#Horns</a>
7 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Clemson&src=hash">#Clemson</a>
6 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Vols&src=hash">#Vols</a>
5 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FSU&src=hash">#FSU</a>
4 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23LSU&src=hash">#LSU</a>
3 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23PennSt&src=hash">#PennSt</a>
2 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Aggies&src=hash">#Aggies</a>
1 <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Bama&src=hash">#Bama</a>
<a href="http://t.co/RgVodfA7lD">http://t.co/RgVodfA7lD</a></p>— RecruitingNation (@ESPNRNFball) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNRNFball/statuses/456471168028266496">April 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

WakeUpEchoes

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fixed it for you

Thanks. You know, those 6's and 9's are confusing.

0bfcc76df15d447ab9cb786108fd92e7bae64225e5c829d5daae3c719f6129b3.jpg
 

Old Man Mike

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Harry good. We big. We mean. We good.


... Harry! Get us a DAMM quarterback!!

Oh, we just got him too.



....despite the tragedy of the player who originally said it here, "WE GONNA BE BEAST!"
 
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