irishandy
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I don't think BVG let Lyght coach his players. After BVG was let go I thought Julian Love, Tony Pride Jr., and Donte Vaughn played well.
ND Coaching Changes 2016
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I don't think BVG let Lyght coach his players. After BVG was let go I thought Julian Love, Tony Pride Jr., and Donte Vaughn played well.
Downinthebend
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I haven't seen much man, but I haven't charted it. Inside zone, power, counter, long trap, speed option is what i've seen.
B
Bogtrotter07
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The biggest takeaways I got from my conversation with a friend of mine who has a real, inside source was that Kelly has input as to who he would like to work with, but is not managing the hiring process at all. And there are certain things that are not happening; Kelly's first choice for OC was Quinn, that was immediately shot down.
In fact, none of Kelly's people are sitting in a good position whatsoever. Longo is really being treated 'roughly' inside the program, as if they are working him for a resignation.
On the other hand, Denson and Lyght are untouchable. It seems there is a group of former Irish players that have some input as to what is happening.
About the defense : Gilmore (pretty well liked and respected all around), and Elston, (very respected for what he has done with recruiting,) are in a wait and see situation. In addition to the 10 coach rule, Clark Lea, may just be offered a chance to take over for Elko at WF. That's probably what is going on there.
Elko is apparently tearing up on the recruiting trail. At least putting the work in and winning friends and influencing people. Time will tell if he turns a couple of recruits our way, or just changes the way the football world looks at ND, (in this cycle, for a bigger bang next year.) But Mike doing good work, guys.
Long was always at or near the top of the list for OC's. The only thing against him was lack of experience, but they wanted a fairly young guy. The guy from Stanford was on the list but it seems interestingly he was never at the top, and things started as fairly unworkable, and went down hill from there.
As a separate note, Chip Kelly will never be an OC at ND.
In fact, none of Kelly's people are sitting in a good position whatsoever. Longo is really being treated 'roughly' inside the program, as if they are working him for a resignation.
On the other hand, Denson and Lyght are untouchable. It seems there is a group of former Irish players that have some input as to what is happening.
About the defense : Gilmore (pretty well liked and respected all around), and Elston, (very respected for what he has done with recruiting,) are in a wait and see situation. In addition to the 10 coach rule, Clark Lea, may just be offered a chance to take over for Elko at WF. That's probably what is going on there.
Elko is apparently tearing up on the recruiting trail. At least putting the work in and winning friends and influencing people. Time will tell if he turns a couple of recruits our way, or just changes the way the football world looks at ND, (in this cycle, for a bigger bang next year.) But Mike doing good work, guys.
Long was always at or near the top of the list for OC's. The only thing against him was lack of experience, but they wanted a fairly young guy. The guy from Stanford was on the list but it seems interestingly he was never at the top, and things started as fairly unworkable, and went down hill from there.
As a separate note, Chip Kelly will never be an OC at ND.
- His shortcuts at Oregon not only would get him slapped with a show cause if he came back to D1 football, but would preclude him from being hired at ND, ever.
- He would never take an OC position at ND, let alone anywhere in college football, (see Charlie Strong.)
N
ND Fan Vancouver
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Very interesting. If it's true that Kelly was shot down re Quinn, I like that. Enough of Kelly's buddies. That kinda situation hasn't worked out well in the past. BVG, Longo and Gilmore are his old buddies. He's just met HH, Denson and Lyght at ND....
Rizzophil
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Keep bringing it!
NDinBoston
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Used to be if you wanted to be the head coach at Notre Dame you had to be a football alum. Times have changed. <a href="https://t.co/HhW7MgXGhr">https://t.co/HhW7MgXGhr</a></p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/815709468046532608">January 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Interesting short article.
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Interesting short article.
NDinBoston
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Analysis: Assessing the new balance of power on offense: How will <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachBrianKelly">@CoachBrianKelly</a> co-exist with new <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> OC? <a href="https://t.co/OXUHfYPqky">https://t.co/OXUHfYPqky</a> <a href="https://t.co/c1BtnNep69">pic.twitter.com/c1BtnNep69</a></p>— Eric Hansen (@EHansenNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/EHansenNDI/status/815739808727396358">January 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Another interesting article.
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SOUTH BEND — The fragments of just who is soon-to-be anointed Notre Dame offensive coordinator Chip Long continue to consolidate, but that doesn’t necessarily unscramble the bigger picture.
The 33-year-old import — most recently from the University of Memphis — has Bobby Petrino and Todd Graham influences in his philosophical makeup, has primarily been a tight ends coach but has a broad enough knowledge base to have expertise in other position groups, and has been lauded as an elite recruiter.
Dangling mysteries — such as whether the Tigers’ lackluster No. 84 ranking in rushing offense (four spots worse than ND’s standing in 2016) was the result of intent on an otherwise dynamic offense or a play-caller deft enough to adapt to his inherited talent — will have to wait.
So will the most pertinent unanswered question regarding the future of the Irish offense:
Who is Brian Kelly?
More to the point, who is the eighth-year Irish head coach and patriarch of the ND offense on the other side of a thorough staff makeover that has yet to run its course? And how does that knit with Long’s visions and aspirations for a Brandon Wimbush-driven Irish offense in 2017 and beyond?
The assumption is that Kelly, at the very least, will be calling the offensive plays for the first time since the 2014 regular-season finale at USC, when Wimbush, his presumptive No. 1 QB, was still in high school.
That desired play-calling takeover, after 26 games of delegating and collaborating, was the tipping point that coaxed associate head coach and play-caller Mike Denbrock to entertain and ultimately accept, with a heavy heart, late last week the offensive coordinator position at the University of Cincinnati.
Long, meanwhile, experienced his first and only season of play-calling in 2016 after following first-year head coach Mike Norvell from Arizona State to Memphis.
In a year so pivotal and defining to Kelly’s Notre Dame tenure at ND, it seems only natural for him to want both hands on the offense’s steering wheel. But is the aftertaste of a 4-8 season so pungent and overpowering that the best answer is sitting in Kelly’s blind spot?
Denbrock’s departure suggests it just might be, not that significant staff turnover hasn’t been good for Kelly in the past.
His two most successful seasons at ND, in fact — a No. 4 finish in 2012 (12-1) and No. 11 in 2015 (10-3) — came immediately after three and four assistants moved on, respectively, in the preceding offseasons.
But this is a more radical shift, with the leadership of the offense, defense, special teams and reportedly strength and conditioning all turning over, with only offensive coordinator Mike Sanford’s and Denbrock’s departures voluntary.
And now, with defensive assistant/recruiting coordinator Mike Elston as the lone remaining original staff member, you could argue the balance between change and continuity could end up being more disruptive than constructive.
Denbrock’s impending departure leaves holes on so many levels, starting with the consistent development of his position group, wide receivers. Take, for instance, freshman Kevin Stepherson, an unheralded three-star prospect Denbrock was won over by after watching his attention to detail in practice drills.
Stepherson’s production this past season (25 receptions, 462 yards, 5 TDs) easily outdid the respective freshman seasons of the four Irish wide receivers to earn All-America status in the past 25 years — Will Fuller (6-160 1 TD), Golden Tate (6-131 1 TD), Jeff Samardzija (7-53 0 TDs) and Derrick Mayes (10-272 3 TDs).
In the wider-angle view, in meetings, in practice and particular on the game day sidelines, Denbrock’s reassuring demeanor was a perfect complement to Kelly’s intensity.
And in recruiting Denbrock was strong on the West Coast as well as with receivers in any part of the country.
Where Kelly may miss him most, though, ironically, is with regard to play-calling.
The numbers bear out that Denbrock may not only have been ND’s best offensive play-caller over the past dozen seasons by far, he also by far faced the highest percentage of strong defenses.
The methodology used here is by no means comprehensive and doesn’t take into account turnovers, special teams variables and points scored by the defense, but the times ND scored more than its opponents’ defensive scoring average and exceeded in total yards opponent averages in that category lean heavily toward Denbrock.
His first game with that duty came in ND’s 31-28 upset of LSU, against the nation’s No. 9 defense, in the 2014 Music City Bowl. And he continued in the play-calling role for the next 25 games over two full seasons.
In total, Denbrock’s offenses outscored opponent defensive averages 88.5 percent of the time. The three times it didn’t — all in 2016 — were the Hurricane Matthew-infiltrated loss to N.C. State, the Stanford loss in which Kelly pulled starting QB DeShone Kizer for several series, and the 28-27 loss to Navy in which the ND offense got the ball for just six possessions (the Irish averaged 13.5 in their other 11 games).
Kelly’s percentage in the 64 games at ND he’s been play-caller is 60.9 percent, with former head coach Charlie Weis at 71.7 percent, and offensive coordinator Mike Haywood 55.6 percent in the first nine games of 2008 before Weis retook control.
Denbrock’s games in which he faced a top 10 or top 43 (top third of the FBS) defense are also significantly higher than the other play-callers — 19.2 and 65.4 percent, compared to Kelly (15.6 and 45.3), Weis (11.3 and 45.3) and Haywood (11.1 and 22.2).
Weis’ run as play-caller has the most highs and lows. His two BCS teams (2005-06) with Brady Quinn, the school career record-holder in most passing categories and in his third and fourth season as a starter, had Weis with a 92 percent rate over opponents’ scoring defense averages.
Then in 2007 and the last four games of 2008, he was 1-of-16 in that category, followed by a 12-for-12 showing in 2009 in the year he was fired. But it should be noted that Weis did not face a top 20 defense that season.
Denbrock (and also Kelly in 2014) had little room for error offensively because of the shortcomings of recently purged defensive coordinator Brian VanGorder.
In VanGorder’s 30 games as defensive coordinator, he held opponents below their scoring averages 53.3 percent of the time and below their average yardage output 43.3 percent of the time. The Elston-led collaboration that finished the 2016 season did so 75 percent of the games in points and 87.5 in yards.
What’s more, VanGorder never faced a top 10 offense in his 30-game run and faced only a top 43 offense 26.7 percent of his games.
The most curious comparison, though, is if you stack the ND version of play-caller Brian Kelly next to the Cincinnati version (2007-2009, as well as the 2006 International Bowl after predecessor Mark Dantonio left for Michigan State).
In those 40 games at UC, Kelly had a 77.5 success rate in both points and yards and against roughly the same percentage of top 10 and top 43 defenses.
It makes one wonder if the figurehead part of being the head coach at Notre Dame bleeds into Kelly the play-caller/QBs mentor. Former Irish offensive coordinator (2012-13) Chuck Martin hinted that might be the case in an interview that preceded the 2012 season.
“It’s not Central Michigan or Cincinnati anymore, so his time away from the trenches is more than it’s ever been,” said Martin, now the head coach at Miami (Ohio). “He’s always been the most hands-on coach in America. And to me that’s been the biggest disconnect here.
“He needs to work in the trenches to make it go to the level he wants it to go.”
If that’s still Kelly’s desire, and it appears to be just that, can he push back on the non-coaching part of his job enough to make that happen, not just in 2017 but for good?
Most coaches apparently don’t even try.
According to the website coachingsearch.com, roughly 28 percent of the 128 FBS head coaches served as their team’s primary offensive play-caller in 2016. Long, meanwhile, was one of nine — head coaches or assistants — who were trying on the offensive play-calling hat in 2016 for the first time.
Long was first among them, and 16th overall, in scoring offense; third among the newcomers, and 28th overall, in total offense.
There’s also returning running backs coach Autry Denson and offensive line coach Harry Hiestand in the big-picture offensive mix, as well as yet-to-be named quarterbacks and wide receivers coaches. Those could turn out to be the same person until the NCAA passes legislation in April for a 10th full-time assistant.
Regardless of who eventually calls the plays, the importance of how Kelly and Long fit together can’t be overstated. In the 18 games Kelly was in the offensive meetings and Denbrock was the play-caller, they never fell short of outscoring the opponents’ defensive average.
It was only after Kelly moved over to help put a tourniquet on the defense that the three games Denbrock fell short occurred.
So synthesis matters. Chemistry matters. Mixing new AND old ideas matter. At least it did in Kelly’s past.
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<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Another interesting article.
*********************************************
SOUTH BEND — The fragments of just who is soon-to-be anointed Notre Dame offensive coordinator Chip Long continue to consolidate, but that doesn’t necessarily unscramble the bigger picture.
The 33-year-old import — most recently from the University of Memphis — has Bobby Petrino and Todd Graham influences in his philosophical makeup, has primarily been a tight ends coach but has a broad enough knowledge base to have expertise in other position groups, and has been lauded as an elite recruiter.
Dangling mysteries — such as whether the Tigers’ lackluster No. 84 ranking in rushing offense (four spots worse than ND’s standing in 2016) was the result of intent on an otherwise dynamic offense or a play-caller deft enough to adapt to his inherited talent — will have to wait.
So will the most pertinent unanswered question regarding the future of the Irish offense:
Who is Brian Kelly?
More to the point, who is the eighth-year Irish head coach and patriarch of the ND offense on the other side of a thorough staff makeover that has yet to run its course? And how does that knit with Long’s visions and aspirations for a Brandon Wimbush-driven Irish offense in 2017 and beyond?
The assumption is that Kelly, at the very least, will be calling the offensive plays for the first time since the 2014 regular-season finale at USC, when Wimbush, his presumptive No. 1 QB, was still in high school.
That desired play-calling takeover, after 26 games of delegating and collaborating, was the tipping point that coaxed associate head coach and play-caller Mike Denbrock to entertain and ultimately accept, with a heavy heart, late last week the offensive coordinator position at the University of Cincinnati.
Long, meanwhile, experienced his first and only season of play-calling in 2016 after following first-year head coach Mike Norvell from Arizona State to Memphis.
In a year so pivotal and defining to Kelly’s Notre Dame tenure at ND, it seems only natural for him to want both hands on the offense’s steering wheel. But is the aftertaste of a 4-8 season so pungent and overpowering that the best answer is sitting in Kelly’s blind spot?
Denbrock’s departure suggests it just might be, not that significant staff turnover hasn’t been good for Kelly in the past.
His two most successful seasons at ND, in fact — a No. 4 finish in 2012 (12-1) and No. 11 in 2015 (10-3) — came immediately after three and four assistants moved on, respectively, in the preceding offseasons.
But this is a more radical shift, with the leadership of the offense, defense, special teams and reportedly strength and conditioning all turning over, with only offensive coordinator Mike Sanford’s and Denbrock’s departures voluntary.
And now, with defensive assistant/recruiting coordinator Mike Elston as the lone remaining original staff member, you could argue the balance between change and continuity could end up being more disruptive than constructive.
Denbrock’s impending departure leaves holes on so many levels, starting with the consistent development of his position group, wide receivers. Take, for instance, freshman Kevin Stepherson, an unheralded three-star prospect Denbrock was won over by after watching his attention to detail in practice drills.
Stepherson’s production this past season (25 receptions, 462 yards, 5 TDs) easily outdid the respective freshman seasons of the four Irish wide receivers to earn All-America status in the past 25 years — Will Fuller (6-160 1 TD), Golden Tate (6-131 1 TD), Jeff Samardzija (7-53 0 TDs) and Derrick Mayes (10-272 3 TDs).
In the wider-angle view, in meetings, in practice and particular on the game day sidelines, Denbrock’s reassuring demeanor was a perfect complement to Kelly’s intensity.
And in recruiting Denbrock was strong on the West Coast as well as with receivers in any part of the country.
Where Kelly may miss him most, though, ironically, is with regard to play-calling.
The numbers bear out that Denbrock may not only have been ND’s best offensive play-caller over the past dozen seasons by far, he also by far faced the highest percentage of strong defenses.
The methodology used here is by no means comprehensive and doesn’t take into account turnovers, special teams variables and points scored by the defense, but the times ND scored more than its opponents’ defensive scoring average and exceeded in total yards opponent averages in that category lean heavily toward Denbrock.
His first game with that duty came in ND’s 31-28 upset of LSU, against the nation’s No. 9 defense, in the 2014 Music City Bowl. And he continued in the play-calling role for the next 25 games over two full seasons.
In total, Denbrock’s offenses outscored opponent defensive averages 88.5 percent of the time. The three times it didn’t — all in 2016 — were the Hurricane Matthew-infiltrated loss to N.C. State, the Stanford loss in which Kelly pulled starting QB DeShone Kizer for several series, and the 28-27 loss to Navy in which the ND offense got the ball for just six possessions (the Irish averaged 13.5 in their other 11 games).
Kelly’s percentage in the 64 games at ND he’s been play-caller is 60.9 percent, with former head coach Charlie Weis at 71.7 percent, and offensive coordinator Mike Haywood 55.6 percent in the first nine games of 2008 before Weis retook control.
Denbrock’s games in which he faced a top 10 or top 43 (top third of the FBS) defense are also significantly higher than the other play-callers — 19.2 and 65.4 percent, compared to Kelly (15.6 and 45.3), Weis (11.3 and 45.3) and Haywood (11.1 and 22.2).
Weis’ run as play-caller has the most highs and lows. His two BCS teams (2005-06) with Brady Quinn, the school career record-holder in most passing categories and in his third and fourth season as a starter, had Weis with a 92 percent rate over opponents’ scoring defense averages.
Then in 2007 and the last four games of 2008, he was 1-of-16 in that category, followed by a 12-for-12 showing in 2009 in the year he was fired. But it should be noted that Weis did not face a top 20 defense that season.
Denbrock (and also Kelly in 2014) had little room for error offensively because of the shortcomings of recently purged defensive coordinator Brian VanGorder.
In VanGorder’s 30 games as defensive coordinator, he held opponents below their scoring averages 53.3 percent of the time and below their average yardage output 43.3 percent of the time. The Elston-led collaboration that finished the 2016 season did so 75 percent of the games in points and 87.5 in yards.
What’s more, VanGorder never faced a top 10 offense in his 30-game run and faced only a top 43 offense 26.7 percent of his games.
The most curious comparison, though, is if you stack the ND version of play-caller Brian Kelly next to the Cincinnati version (2007-2009, as well as the 2006 International Bowl after predecessor Mark Dantonio left for Michigan State).
In those 40 games at UC, Kelly had a 77.5 success rate in both points and yards and against roughly the same percentage of top 10 and top 43 defenses.
It makes one wonder if the figurehead part of being the head coach at Notre Dame bleeds into Kelly the play-caller/QBs mentor. Former Irish offensive coordinator (2012-13) Chuck Martin hinted that might be the case in an interview that preceded the 2012 season.
“It’s not Central Michigan or Cincinnati anymore, so his time away from the trenches is more than it’s ever been,” said Martin, now the head coach at Miami (Ohio). “He’s always been the most hands-on coach in America. And to me that’s been the biggest disconnect here.
“He needs to work in the trenches to make it go to the level he wants it to go.”
If that’s still Kelly’s desire, and it appears to be just that, can he push back on the non-coaching part of his job enough to make that happen, not just in 2017 but for good?
Most coaches apparently don’t even try.
According to the website coachingsearch.com, roughly 28 percent of the 128 FBS head coaches served as their team’s primary offensive play-caller in 2016. Long, meanwhile, was one of nine — head coaches or assistants — who were trying on the offensive play-calling hat in 2016 for the first time.
Long was first among them, and 16th overall, in scoring offense; third among the newcomers, and 28th overall, in total offense.
There’s also returning running backs coach Autry Denson and offensive line coach Harry Hiestand in the big-picture offensive mix, as well as yet-to-be named quarterbacks and wide receivers coaches. Those could turn out to be the same person until the NCAA passes legislation in April for a 10th full-time assistant.
Regardless of who eventually calls the plays, the importance of how Kelly and Long fit together can’t be overstated. In the 18 games Kelly was in the offensive meetings and Denbrock was the play-caller, they never fell short of outscoring the opponents’ defensive average.
It was only after Kelly moved over to help put a tourniquet on the defense that the three games Denbrock fell short occurred.
So synthesis matters. Chemistry matters. Mixing new AND old ideas matter. At least it did in Kelly’s past.
*********************************************
IrishFanJMercy
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Whoever is calling plays needs to start with the run. If we want to
Be in the playoffs next year we need to pound the rock and focus on the short yardage high percentage throws and get the tight ends involved. Put 7 OL out there and hammer away.
Be in the playoffs next year we need to pound the rock and focus on the short yardage high percentage throws and get the tight ends involved. Put 7 OL out there and hammer away.
Irish YJ
Southsida
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I'm with you.
I think Long is a pass first guy, but he does like the TE.
I'd like to see some of the folks that might be more familiar with Long share their thoughts.
loomis41973
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Between the lack of mentions for Jim Bob Cooter and the false narrative of BK not running the hires leaves this thread lacking at best.
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This year they ran the ball 487 times, threw it 477 fwiw.
Downinthebend
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Funny thing is (and piggy-ing off the hansen article) is Long almost certainly had one of the best "rushing" offenses when you define "rushing" as calling a run (keep in mind I doubt Hansen is actually using S&P) Memphis was 52nd in rushing (S&P). Memphis wasn't running read option plays often to get a +1 blocker instead what they were doing was calling a "run" with a pass option and throwing if its open. Alot of "twitter analysts" (put what stake in that you want) like Long, and anecdotally Long runs the absolute most RPOS i've seen from anyone at any cfb/nfl level.
This naturally is going to make your "rushing" look worse and your "passing" look better when its the same exact play.
Also not sure where people get that he likes the TE (i know hes a TE coach but film don't lie), I haven't seen the TE when lined up inline/wing/pistol I thrown to much at 2016 Memphis.
The things i'd probably say we could expect to see from Long is probably a decreased % of read option plays (due to lack of QB depth and long's love of "qb-risk-free" rpo's) (from my incomplete charts of last year's irish easily >50 percent of runs were option or designed QB), alot more creative (and frequent) RPOs, and the long trap play that Long seemed to love at Memphis. This trap play is something thats very uncommon (to my eye at least) in CFB, perhaps Michigan has run it a little if I remember right.
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Irish YJ
Southsida
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Irish YJ
Southsida
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Thanks and reps.
One point, if he has any interest in TEs..... He's got a few diamonds here. Maybe he has a little more talent to utilize. I would love to see a run first but TE strong team with a couple capable WRs.
Dreaming I know.
K
koonja
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Keith Arnold just tweeted that he expects Rees to return to ND as QB coach?
https://twitter.com/KeithArnold/status/816011936705851392
https://twitter.com/KeithArnold/status/816011936705851392
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Irish Insanity
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My confidence in this team just grew exponentially
military_irish
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If those reports are true. This would be the biggest hire since the hiring of Holtz.
NDRock
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Really? That's worse than our ratio and I don't think we're a running team at all. We ran the ball 438 and passed 388 times.
It's always hard to gauge pass/run ratios since the NCAA counts sacks as rushing attempts. Just based on the numbers by Memphis last year, they definitely called more passing plays than running plays. I'm sure we'll chuck it all over the field this year. My only hope is we actually use the TE position some.
Dizzyphil
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I hope so. Smythe and Weishar had 12 catches the entire year.
pumpdog20
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Why not? I'm sure he knows all the appropriate mechanics, and can teach them. I don't see any problem with this as long as QB coach and recruiter is his own responsibilities.
zelezo vlk
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Valpodoc85
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any rumor on S&C?
Someone from Stanford, sounds like it's him
It sounds like BK is surrounding his offense with guys who won't challenge him and are young and can relate to players and recruits. Its probably his last year and after his couple out of the box hires he went with someone he knows and knows this offense inside and out. Wonder how good of a coach Rees is and how he can croot
Irish Insanity
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He's currently an offensive assistant in the NFL.
He spent 1 year as a Grad assistant and NW
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Even if it's as the true positional coach, he's really just running the individual drills and relaying the day's report to BK in the office.
BK would still be THE QB coach, it would just be during pass skeleton and full unit work.
I think Tommy could do it as the positional coach, and do it well. He was uncanny in his intelligence and getting the team into the proper plays. Based on his physical limitations, he had no business putting up the numbers that he did... and yet his knowledge of how BK wants the QB to operate lead to a lot of success.
BK would still be THE QB coach, it would just be during pass skeleton and full unit work.
I think Tommy could do it as the positional coach, and do it well. He was uncanny in his intelligence and getting the team into the proper plays. Based on his physical limitations, he had no business putting up the numbers that he did... and yet his knowledge of how BK wants the QB to operate lead to a lot of success.
FightingIrishLover7
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Resus has risen!
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Fleck or death boys!