[NCAAF] vBook: Clemson vs Ohio State

[IrishSteelhead]

[NCAAF] vBook: Clemson vs Ohio State

Brent Venables fried very hard to put Clemson in an insurmountable hole in the first half. His stupid Ive had a kilo of cocaine and drank 6 energy drinks gave OSU plenty of chances to catch Clemson off guard.

OSU is running up tempo, and Venables is yelling at his team like a drunk little league dad, making them all look over as OSU was snapping the ball. Trust your team dude, and adjust when its appropriate.




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[bkess8]

Brent Venables fried very hard to put Clemson in an insurmountable hole in the first half. His stupid Ive had a kilo of cocaine and drank 6 energy drinks gave OSU plenty of chances to catch Clemson off guard.

OSU is running up tempo, and Venables is yelling at his team like a drunk little league dad, making them all look over as OSU was snapping the ball. Trust your team dude, and adjust when its appropriate.




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IMO that is his style and the way he coached them all year... Day knew this from watching film and decided to try and take advantage of it. Venables got the last laugh because they won the game so I guess we will see WHAT he will do against LSU.

 

[stlnd01]

Clemson was over matched and OSU lost that game. Honestly, the thought/haunt of what if for OSU fans may be more delicious than the tears of blowouts.

OSU has the better players and therefore maybe should have won, but that doesn’t seem to matter so much for Clemson these last few years. Certainly they have good players too, but - despite his silly aw-shucksery and Evangelicism - Dabo gets the most out of them, and they always show up for the big games.

 

[yankeehater]

OSU has the better players and therefore maybe should have won, but that doesn’t seem to matter so much for Clemson these last few years. Certainly they have good players too, but - despite his silly aw-shucksery and Evangelicism - Dabo gets the most out of them, and they always show up for the big games.

I know Dabo gets his share of 4 and 5 star players, but it amazes me the contributions he gets from lower rated players he brings into the program. After the game, I went on Rivals and checked on some of the guys making plays to see about their status coming out of high school. Nolan Turner who made the game saving pick was a 2 star. Two of the LB's were 3 star. Etienne was only a 3 star on rivals. One of the kids....don't remember which one I looked up only had 5 offers from Clemson, Duke, Wake Forest, Mercer and Georgia Southern. Hunter Renfrow went from walk-on to championship star. I think that is what separates the good coaches from the great....finding diamonds in the rough and getting the most out of the kids you bring in to your program.

 

[bkess8]

I know Dabo gets his share of 4 and 5 star players, but it amazes me the contributions he gets from lower rated players he brings into the program. After the game, I went on Rivals and checked on some of the guys making plays to see about their status coming out of high school. Nolan Turner who made the game saving pick was a 2 star. Two of the LB's were 3 star. Etienne was only a 3 star on rivals. One of the kids....don't remember which one I looked up only had 5 offers from Clemson, Duke, Wake Forest, Mercer and Georgia Southern. Hunter Renfrow went from walk-on to championship star. I think that is what separates the good coaches from the great....finding diamonds in the rough and getting the most out of the kids you bring in to your program.

You mean to tell me that player development matters? That is one thing I think is missing with our staff under BK. We can recruit decent all the way to great players but we never make the decent players into great ones if that makes sense.

 

[ulukinatme]

I know Dabo gets his share of 4 and 5 star players, but it amazes me the contributions he gets from lower rated players he brings into the program. After the game, I went on Rivals and checked on some of the guys making plays to see about their status coming out of high school. Nolan Turner who made the game saving pick was a 2 star. Two of the LB's were 3 star. Etienne was only a 3 star on rivals. One of the kids....don't remember which one I looked up only had 5 offers from Clemson, Duke, Wake Forest, Mercer and Georgia Southern. Hunter Renfrow went from walk-on to championship star. I think that is what separates the good coaches from the great....finding diamonds in the rough and getting the most out of the kids you bring in to your program.

Easy explanation: "Deer antler spray."

 

[yankeehater]

Easy explanation: "Deer antler spray."

May be true, but you really think Clemson is the only team using it or any other PED's for that matter.

 

[dad4aa]

I know Dabo gets his share of 4 and 5 star players, but it amazes me the contributions he gets from lower rated players he brings into the program. After the game, I went on Rivals and checked on some of the guys making plays to see about their status coming out of high school. Nolan Turner who made the game saving pick was a 2 star. Two of the LB's were 3 star. Etienne was only a 3 star on rivals. One of the kids....don't remember which one I looked up only had 5 offers from Clemson, Duke, Wake Forest, Mercer and Georgia Southern. Hunter Renfrow went from walk-on to championship star. I think that is what separates the good coaches from the great....finding diamonds in the rough and getting the most out of the kids you bring in to your program.

I agree with all of this except the bolded. That interception has nothing to do with spectacular play and great contribution from a lower rated player. Hell...I could have made that interception

 

[yankeehater]

I agree with all of this except the bolded. That interception has nothing to do with spectacular play and great contribution from a lower rated player. Hell...I could have made that interception

I didn't say it was a great play or tough pick. The point is Dabo has a 2 star player out on the field on a drive that determines whether they go to the Natty or not!

 

[Irish2155]

Don't quite understand the hate on Venables. If he was on cocaine, I didn't notice. They held to FGs and hard to argue with Championships.

At the end of the day, if Dobbins would have held on on to at least one of those two TD catches...OSU would have won. The blocked punt was another TO also that resulted into 7 points if I remember correctly. Another game changers.

Clemson I hope isn't doping.....???

 

[Sea Turtle]

May be true, but you really think Clemson is the only team using it or any other PED's for that matter.

I don't think any 'team' is juicing. This isn't the 1970's Steelers who literally had a team doctor injecting them with steroids weekly.

There are teams that have players taking legal supplements. We should be too as long as it's legal.

Of course you'll have some guys on football factories who know a guy and are trying to improve their draft stock, etc. I think Clemson probably had a few last year and they got popped for it.

 

[Wild Bill]

Don't quite understand the hate on Venables. If he was on cocaine, I didn't notice. They held to FGs and hard to argue with Championships.

At the end of the day, if Dobbins would have held on on to at least one of those two TD catches...OSU would have won.

Clemson really didn't hold them to FGs. Like you said, Dobbins just dropped a couple passes and Clemson caught a break.

The blocked punt was another TO also that resulted into 7 points if I remember correctly. Another game changers.

You mean the roughing the kicker on the punt?

That was a difficult call - the kicker was definitely in the air so contact should have resulted in roughing but it did look like the punter initiated contact while the defender was trying to avoid contact. Difficult call to make live so you have to live with it one way or another. However, there was an absolutely egregious facemask about fifteen yards away from the fair catch - the Ohio State player just gets launched by his facemask in the middle of the field. I have no idea how the refs missed it. The penalties would have offset and Clemson would have had to punt. Instead, they take the fifteen yards and the lead.

The Wade call was a targeting. He should have been given the 15 yarder but it's a joke that he was booted from the game. This kid busts ass all year and then he's tossed from the most important game he's ever played for not dropping two inches more to make a tackle. They need to get rid of these ejections, unless it's a malicious hit. This hit was nothing more than a football play. Give the team a fifteen yarder and let the kid continue playing.

Reversing that OSU defensive TD was insane to me. I haven't thrown a remote since the Bush push but if ND was on the ass end of that call in that game I would have launched my TV across the across the room. I couldn't believe it.

OSU got robbed.

 

[BGIF]

Damn right it was!

Damn right it was!

Possession!

TD!

Big Ten supervisor of officials: Fumble return for TD should have stood in Ohio State-Clemson game
SEC officials overturned Ross' catch and fumble, ruiling it an incompletion after video review
Dennis Dodd @dennisdoddcbs 2 hrs ago

A third-quarter fumble returned for a touchdown by No. 2 Ohio State in the 2019 Fiesta Bowl should not have been overturned and instead should have been allowed to stand, Big Ten supervisor of officials Bill Carollo tells CBS Sports just days after the College Football Playoff semifinal that sent No. 3 Clemson to the national title game.

In the third quarter of the Tigers' eventual 29-23 win, Clemson wide receiver Justyn Ross was ruled to have fumbled after being hit by Ohio State corner Jeff Okudah following a 10-yard catch at the Clemson 30. OSU defensive back Jordan Fuller then returned the loose ball for a touchdown.

However, upon video review, the play was overturned and ruled an incompletion. Veteran SEC video review official Gerald Hodges initiated the booth review.

The officiating decision immediately became one of the most debated in the six-year history of the CFP. It set off a firestorm of debate on television and social media.


Terry McAulay
✔
@SNFRules
This is a great angle. There is absolutely no way replay should have reversed. “Indisputable video evidence” is simply not there. https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/1211136453247414272 …

SportsCenter
✔
@SportsCenter
This was originally called a catch and fumble return TD, but was overturned as an incomplete pass. #CFBPlayoff


Pete Thamel
✔
@PeteThamel
Just got a text from Ohio State AD Gene Smith: "Terry McAulay is 100-percent correct!!! Unreal!!" He added: "Feel free to share how pissed I am." https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1211138563657498625 …

Pete Thamel
✔
@PeteThamel
This is interesting. One of the country's most respected officials thinks the Ross fumble/Fuller return should have been a touchdown. https://twitter.com/SNFRules/status/1211137879218380800 …

12:28 AM - Dec 29, 2019


"I haven't talked to anybody who thought it was an incomplete pass," said Carollo, who has more than 30 years of officiating experience. "To reverse it, it has to be really obvious."

Carollo said he has spoken with both Ohio State coach Ryan Day and SEC officiating supervisor Steve Shaw about the play. Carollo admitted Day was upset, but, "He's a pro. Very professional."

A highly-rated, on-field veteran SEC crew worked the game. SEC administrators have not commented on the officiating decision itself. It is unknown whether the league will release a statement.

Referee Ken Williamson told a pool reporter after the game that "the ball was becoming loose in his hands and he did not complete the process of the catch."

Carollo said Williamson "misspoke on that. The ball was not moving."

The NCAA rulebook defines a catch as maintaining "control of the ball long enough to enable [a player] to perform an act common to the game … long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent."

Ross appears to take at least three steps after the catch without the ball moving in his hands before he is stripped.

"We would have preferred it stand," Carollo said. "Don't reofficiate it [in the replay booth] on judgment calls."

When asked about about the decision after game, Day said the situation was "too close right now." He continued: "I'm probably too emotional to really talk about those [calls]."

Day added there were "some plays" overturned in the game, "and when they overturn it, there has to be indisputable evidence."

One Power Five officiating supervisor added, "I think [the SEC would] like to have that [call] back."

Carollo said he told Day there were several close calls in the game but there was only one Day should have had "a beef with." That was the catch/no catch ruling on Ross' play.

On the field, the SEC crew handled the play by the book, Carollo said. As soon as the ball hit the ground, an official threw a bean bag indicating a fumble. The crew let the sequence play out with Fuller taking it in for a touchdown to give Ohio State the lead.

Williamson said the play was reviewed not only by Hodges in the replay booth but at the SEC "video center" in Birmingham, Alabama. Hodges appears weekly on a Knoxville, Tennessee, sports talk show.

"We had a lot of good looks on it," Williamson said. "We put on fast motion and slow motion. The player did not complete the process of the catch, therefore the pass was incomplete."

Shaw would not comment, but national officiating supervisor Rogers Redding agreed that the call should not have been overturned when contacted by CBS Sports on Monday. Shaw is set to replace Redding as national supervisor.

Carollo has been Big Ten officiating supervisor since 2009. He is a former Big Ten football and basketball official. From 1989 to 2008, he was an NFL official.

Neutral Power Five crews are assigned to CFP games.

 

[Wingman Ray]

OSU got robbed.

Couldnt have happened to a better team. Except MAYBE Michigan

 

[ulukinatme]

May be true, but you really think Clemson is the only team using it or any other PED's for that matter.

Na, there are other teams, but Clemson certainly comes to mind. When you have 4 players come back in a 16 player random sampling before we played them in the playoff last year...that should have been a red flag that prompted the whole team to get tested.

Clemson I hope isn't doping.....???

I don't think any 'team' is juicing. This isn't the 1970's Steelers who literally had a team doctor injecting them with steroids weekly.

Clemson may not be juicing like the Steelers were, but they're definitely taking advantage and gaming the system. They got popped before the bowl game last year, but that was 4 players in a 16 player sample. That's 25%, and it could obviously be much more than that depending on how they're cycling it out of their system. I would think come bowl time they try to keep it clean to avoid such issues. When asked if Clemson would test the rest of the team after the convincing fashion they steamrolled everyone in the playoff last year, Clemson said they wouldn't test anyone else. You would think if they had nothing to hide they would test the rest of the team to quash any concerns. I don't think people realize how few NCAA athletes come back with positive PED tests each year, very few players get caught because testing is random and only a handful of players are checked at any time.

This was from 7 years ago, but not much has changed in recent years: https://www.espn.com/college-footba...roids-loom-major-college-football-report-says

 

[Circa]

Na, there are other teams, but Clemson certainly comes to mind. When you have 4 players come back in a 16 player random sampling before we played them in the playoff last year...that should have been a red flag that prompted the whole team to get tested.





Clemson may not be juicing like the Steelers were, but they're definitely taking advantage and gaming the system. They got popped before the bowl game last year, but that was 4 players in a 16 player sample. That's 25%, and it could obviously be much more than that depending on how they're cycling it out of their system. I would think come bowl time they try to keep it clean to avoid such issues. When asked if Clemson would test the rest of the team after the convincing fashion they steamrolled everyone in the playoff last year, Clemson said they wouldn't test anyone else. You would think if they had nothing to hide they would test the rest of the team to quash any concerns. I don't think people realize how few NCAA athletes come back with positive PED tests each year, very few players get caught because testing is random and only a handful of players are checked at any time.

This was from 7 years ago, but not much has changed in recent years: https://www.espn.com/college-footba...roids-loom-major-college-football-report-says

"Rules vary so widely that, on any given game day, a team with a strict no-steroid policy can face a team whose players have repeatedly tested positive."

This one quote has Alabama Vs Us written all over It. It's so damn egregious It makes me sick that the NCAA hasn't done more to stop it.
The story was written on Dec. 20, 2012.

It also brings JUCO schools into the crime. 'Hey, 17-18-year-old kid... Your not big enough yet? Go to so and so school, dope up and we'll call in a few years.'

 

[ulukinatme]

The Wade call was a targeting. He should have been given the 15 yarder but it's a joke that he was booted from the game. This kid busts ass all year and then he's tossed from the most important game he's ever played for not dropping two inches more to make a tackle. They need to get rid of these ejections, unless it's a malicious hit. This hit was nothing more than a football play. Give the team a fifteen yarder and let the kid continue playing.

The ejection was the right call, at least based on the new rules. I'm not going to debate the intent, but the fact remains he lowered his head and hit Lawrence with the crown of his helm. That's textbook targeting now. Intent doesn't matter, you lower your head, they're going to call it just about every time either on the field or in the booth.

I saw a lot of tOSU fans complain that Lawrence deliberately ducked down to take the helmet to helmet hit, which is completely absurd. They claimed he dropped down 2 feet to purposefully accept the helmet to helmet hit. I watched it again, and depending on the angle he drops very little. He turns toward Wade at the last second and braces himself for impact, but it happens so fast there's no way he could consciously duck to try and take the hit to the helmet and draw a penalty. Young then comes in at the end and grabs Lawrence around the neck to finish it off. I've enjoyed watching Buckeye fans whine about this one, I have no sympathy after some of the bullshit from the 2015 bowl.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I've enjoyed watching Buckeye fans whine about this one, I have no sympathy after some of the bullshit from the 2015 bowl.

OSU fans are the woyste.

Woyste = even more bad than worst

#archiebunkerlives

 

[Ndaccountant]

The ejection was the right call, at least based on the new rules. I'm not going to debate the intent, but the fact remains he lowered his head and hit Lawrence with the crown of his helm. That's textbook targeting now. Intent doesn't matter, you lower your head, they're going to call it just about every time either on the field or in the booth.

I saw a lot of tOSU fans complain that Lawrence deliberately ducked down to take the helmet to helmet hit, which is completely absurd. They claimed he dropped down 2 feet to purposefully accept the helmet to helmet hit. I watched it again, and depending on the angle he drops very little. He turns toward Wade at the last second and braces himself for impact, but it happens so fast there's no way he could consciously duck to try and take the hit to the helmet and draw a penalty. Young then comes in at the end and grabs Lawrence around the neck to finish it off. I've enjoyed watching Buckeye fans whine about this one, I have no sympathy after some of the bullshit from the 2015 bowl.

+1.

Simply put, it was the correct call based on the rules. Cannot debate that. Instead, debate the existence of the rule.

 

[Circa]

+1.

Simply put, it was the correct call based on the rules. Cannot debate that. Instead, debate the existence of the rule.

It's hard to argue that play unless your biased as to who wins. I only had vbucks on It.

I'm curious about the unsportsmanlike conduct rules.
When a player is being tackled and they are takin by a foot and twisted like a pretzel, Is that normal?... I know It wasn't normal 25 years ago In highschool FB.
We had a similar situation this year when Claypool had his ankle twisted on purpose. I think It was the UVA game...
That Dobbins injury was an intentional try to take a player out... more than the unintentional hit (but Illegal), to the helmet, was to Lawrence.

 

[ulukinatme]

It's hard to argue that play unless your biased as to who wins. I only had vbucks on It.

It's not hard to argue the play, actually. Here's the definition of targeting in college football:

It's defined as occurring when a player "takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball." Instances include, but are not limited to:

* Launch--a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area.
* A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground.
* Leading with helmet, shoulder forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area.
* Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet.

By definition, what Wade did covers the bolded perfectly. End of story.

 

[Circa]

It's not hard to argue the play, actually. Here's the definition of targeting in college football:



By definition, what Wade did covers the bolded perfectly. End of story.

I meant It's hard to argue the call on the play. It was the right call imho.
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[Bishop2b5]

Kevin Turner, a former Bama and NFL fullback was one of Dabo's best friends and teammates in college. They were in business together after Kevin's NFL career ended and before Dabo's coaching career took off and remained close friends.

In 2010, Kevin was diagnosed with ALS, almost certainly caused by severe CTE from numerous concussions during his college and 8-year NFL career. He passed away in 2016 from ALS. Shortly before his death, Dabo offered his son Nolan a scholarship. It was Nolan who made the game saving interception against OSU this week.

Here's a good short video about all this. Really sad to see Kevin go from a 235 lb. NFL beast to a 100 lb. shell as ALS ravaged him, but there's also some feel good moments. Worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d64...zE_q25Q1fIcG5L23nUGkJizJ8vuUA__NBcUOGX5msc5TI