NBA Thread

Irish#1

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Yeah, that's sort of my point. You stopped watching the NBA about 10 years ago. Coming to a thread about the NBA acting like the NBA is playing worse basketball since 2016 without watching it gives you cool guy points from the many haters but it really seems weird to me. Not to come after Irish#1 in particular but some of the best passers to ever play the game are playing right now. Saying that passing is a bygone thing ignores all elements of spacing and pace that is being played with right now (which are both at historic all time highs). I mean, Joker alone is a human highlight reel from a passing perspective.

There's always going to be people who say that the NBA sucks, and its probably always going to be a popular take online. It's an unfortunate part of the culture surrounding the association and has been a normal thing for me to hear about over the last 3 decades. I just think most of the people who claim that the product "sucks" are 1) not really fans of pro basketball who want to justify their disinterest, 2) overly nostalgic for the player they bandwagoned for back in the 90s, or 3) dislike the association for other non-basketball reasons. If you are none of those, then no worries. I'm sure there are very complex statistical reasons the product is trash that I don't understand.
I knew I should have elaborated more. Lol

There are some excellent passers and they tend to be foreign players as Jigga mentioned. It seemed there was a guard with great passing skills on most every team back then. Overall as a league I think it isn’t what it use to be.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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I'm tired of the league constantly feeding the Lakers generational players.

Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Shaq
LeBron
Davis
And now this.

How would you guys like it if the Cowboys were constantly getting Mahomes, Rodgers, Moss, etc. because other teams couldn't afford them, they refused to sign with them and only wanted to be a Cowboy or nudging behind the scenes with the league because they need LA to be good.

It's BS and I'm sick of it. And I even liked them in the eighties but I see what's going on and it's BS.
FIFY
 

Old Man Mike

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Because of "three points" beating two points, the NBA coaching realizes that in the statistical game you want to aim at "three points" every time (unless it's a breakaway slam.) Therefore all offenses tend to emphasize two things: three point shooting of course, but also "Drive like a crazy man with no real plan to the rim, and get fouled." The refs, either because they're incompetent or have been told to do so, simply blow their whistles every time (I'm irritatingly amused to watch refs wait on charges until they see if the ball goes in, and then make the late, usually wrong, blocking call.)

This crude "philosophy" of offense comes pretty close to eliminating the mid-range game. Bombers, and slasher/crashers is what you have. Jokic is the Oddball exception with his unique game.
 

Irish#1

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Vitale had a good idea years ago. Dunks should be worth three points progressing out to where three point shots should be worth one point.
 

NDohio

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I admit I do not watch the NBA and haven't since around 05, 06 with any regularity. I'm not saying the quality of play is any better or worse, I really don't know, but there are meta issues the NBA faces and the perception is the style of play (whether efficient or not) is boring. Baseball is trending this way with the game probably objectively being played "better" but "better" and "enjoyable" are not necessarily the same.
Pretty interesting post. I was a huuuge NBA fan for most of my life. My time watching the game earnestly started in the mid 70"s. I loved that era, Dr J was the epitome of entertainment in my eyes. I enjoyed the evolution of the game as it became very different through the Jordan years to the early LeBron years. I watched pretty regularly up through LeBron's championship with the Cavs in '16. At that point the game's entertainment level began to fall off. Technically the game has probably gotten better, but the level of entertainment has fallen way off for me. I try every season to give it a go, but it just doesn't hold my interest they way it used to. It's boring.

I have always loved the game of basketball and still watch a ton of college games. I think you nailed it though - games in the NBA are no longer entertaining.
 

BabyIrish

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I think people on both sides of the aisle have some factual statements. The individual talent has a very high floor. There are a few teams who run some pretty high level offense with lots of movement. But there are plenty of teams who don't who just rely on individual talent. The reliance on the three pointer occurs way too often. Does this lead to a boring product? For some it does.
 

Irish#1

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Pretty interesting post. I was a huuuge NBA fan for most of my life. My time watching the game earnestly started in the mid 70"s. I loved that era, Dr J was the epitome of entertainment in my eyes. I enjoyed the evolution of the game as it became very different through the Jordan years to the early LeBron years. I watched pretty regularly up through LeBron's championship with the Cavs in '16. At that point the game's entertainment level began to fall off. Technically the game has probably gotten better, but the level of entertainment has fallen way off for me. I try every season to give it a go, but it just doesn't hold my interest they way it used to. It's boring.

I have always loved the game of basketball and still watch a ton of college games. I think you nailed it though - games in the NBA are no longer entertaining.
I'm bias, but my favorite time was watching the ABA from the late 60's until the merger. Dr. J, George McGinnis (RIP), The Iceman, Roger Brown, etc. While the ABA invented the three point shot, they didn't rely on it. It was incorporated into the overall game. The top 4-5 teams in the ABA could hold their own against the NBA. When they merged, the top scorers in the NBA were former ABA players.
 

NDohio

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I'm bias, but my favorite time was watching the ABA from the late 60's until the merger. Dr. J, George McGinnis (RIP), The Iceman, Roger Brown, etc. While the ABA invented the three point shot, they didn't rely on it. It was incorporated into the overall game. The top 4-5 teams in the ABA could hold their own against the NBA. When they merged, the top scorers in the NBA were former ABA players.
My time watching began right at the merger. I probably would have really liked the ABA. In addition to the guys you mentioned above, I was a huge David Thompson fan. Artis Gilmore, Connie Hawkins and Moses Malone were big men that played an entertaining style. Good stuff...We are old...
 

Irish#1

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My time watching began right at the merger. I probably would have really liked the ABA. In addition to the guys you mentioned above, I was a huge David Thompson fan. Artis Gilmore, Connie Hawkins and Moses Malone were big men that played an entertaining style. Good stuff...We are old...
I remember all of those guys. Too many to name. Rick Barry played a couple of years for the Oakland Oaks. The ABA was in a number of cities before the NBA expanded to them. New Orleans Buccaneers, Memphis Tams/Sounds and the Utah Grizzlies. Darnell Hillman was the first to become a dunking highlight reel. Was known as Dr. Dunk. Dude could jump threw the roof as demonstrated by his ability to pick a quarter from the top of the backboard. His giant afro was awesome.



 
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Jiggafini19Deux

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I'm 47. My formative years were the 80s and 90s, and I lived in Chicago growing up a Bulls fan. Magic and Larry as a kid, Jordan's Bulls during my teen years and college. The 1992 Barcelona Dream Team.

Taking the nostalgia out of it, I think my favorite period was the 2010s, which ultimately ended with Covid. Any Chicago sports fan can't possibly deny the joy those Bulls teams brought to a city that typically doesn't win anything, but as a basketball/NBA fan the 2010s were definitely a summit for me as a fan.

There is probably a valley right now in the post pandemic era, for sure, but I think the upswing could be coming back soon. LeBron, KD and Curry are passing the torch soon enough. That will play a part in it.
 

slick7410

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I tried to watch the All-star game but too many breaks/nonsense. This commissioner seems to love tournaments of all kinds, hasn't hit the mark though.

 

greyhammer90

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I tried to watch the All-star game but too many breaks/nonsense. This commissioner seems to love tournaments of all kinds, hasn't hit the mark though.



TNT treating the whole thing as a joke makes me somewhat happy they're losing media rights. Stopping games for twenty minute intermissions to celebrate themselves, having Kevin Hart roast the players over the PA system while they are playing, Kenny talking shit about the up and comers team, Mr. Beast bullshit, doing a full car ad during the trophy ceremony, etc. It's the NBA's fault for taking the money without pushing back on the "creative decisions" but it was clear the whole TNT production team was smelling their own shit. And then they wonder why the players don't play hard at this thing.
 

pumpdog20

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I feel a lot of the "issue" with the NBA, is that the stars don't want to play. They need their days off. Hell, they had to pull a guy who's not even in the league to save their dunk contest, because the stars are too afraid to enter it.
 

KPENN

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TNT treating the whole thing as a joke makes me somewhat happy they're losing media rights. Stopping games for twenty minute intermissions to celebrate themselves, having Kevin Hart roast the players over the PA system while they are playing, Kenny talking shit about the up and comers team, Mr. Beast bullshit, doing a full car ad during the trophy ceremony, etc. It's the NBA's fault for taking the money without pushing back on the "creative decisions" but it was clear the whole TNT production team was smelling their own shit. And then they wonder why the players don't play hard at this thing.
Eh, this very much feels like a chicken and the egg situation. The players haven’t cared for a while and it feels like with losing the media rights TNT just kinda said “fuck it”
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I don't get all star games. Or any kind of exhibition contests anymore. MLB, NHL and NBA are all about the playoffs now to the point that regular season games in all three are about managing people's health for when you get to the postseason. How is anyone supposed to care about an all star game?

All Star Games, the Pro Bowl, etc. Time has passed it by. I don't know what kind of revenue it actually generates, but the interest they all generate now is considerably low.
 

irishnd31

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I feel a lot of the "issue" with the NBA, is that the stars don't want to play. They need their days off. Hell, they had to pull a guy who's not even in the league to save their dunk contest, because the stars are too afraid to enter it.
For the third consecutive time...
 

Irish#1

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The players are so worried about protecting themselves it alienates fans. People buy tix and find out the player they came to see is sitting out for "load management"? All Stars don't even attempt to play defense in the All Star game. I don't care for the Home Run Derby, but at least the baseball All Star game is competitive. Hockey players think, what a bunch of pussies.
 

FU BK

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I'm 47. My formative years were the 80s and 90s, and I lived in Chicago growing up a Bulls fan. Magic and Larry as a kid, Jordan's Bulls during my teen years and college. The 1992 Barcelona Dream Team.

Taking the nostalgia out of it, I think my favorite period was the 2010s, which ultimately ended with Covid. Any Chicago sports fan can't possibly deny the joy those Bulls teams brought to a city that typically doesn't win anything, but as a basketball/NBA fan the 2010s were definitely a summit for me as a fan.

There is probably a valley right now in the post pandemic era, for sure, but I think the upswing could be coming back soon. LeBron, KD and Curry are passing the torch soon enough. That will play a part in it.
A year younger than you, and grew up on Magic, Bird, Jordan, Thomas. Was fortunate to have a friend that had Pacers season tickets and got to see Jordan's return live at Market Square. I tried to watch a game a couple years ago and could only watch a half. Gone were the days of defense...especially knock you on your ass Detroit Pistons. I think the last time I really gave a shit about the NBA was the first few years Shaq came into the league and just being in awe of how physically dominate he was.
 

NorthDakota

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I think people on both sides of the aisle have some factual statements. The individual talent has a very high floor. There are a few teams who run some pretty high level offense with lots of movement. But there are plenty of teams who don't who just rely on individual talent. The reliance on the three pointer occurs way too often. Does this lead to a boring product? For some it does.
This is why I want the three point line to be a straight line across the court. These guys are too good at basketball under its current rule structure. It has made the game difficult to watch.
 

KPENN

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As someone who likes LeBron, it’s genuinely disappointing he never competed in the dunk contest.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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A year younger than you, and grew up on Magic, Bird, Jordan, Thomas. Was fortunate to have a friend that had Pacers season tickets and got to see Jordan's return live at Market Square. I tried to watch a game a couple years ago and could only watch a half. Gone were the days of defense...especially knock you on your ass Detroit Pistons. I think the last time I really gave a shit about the NBA was the first few years Shaq came into the league and just being in awe of how physically dominate he was.
There is a strong contingent that shares this view.

I'd go back to greyhammer's post and watch the video: https://www.irishenvy.com/threads/nba-thread.89725/post-3450424

Shaq in college was an all timer. That was must see TV for a middle schooler in the early 90s
 

Blazers46

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I feel a lot of the "issue" with the NBA, is that the stars don't want to play. They need their days off. Hell, they had to pull a guy who's not even in the league to save their dunk contest, because the stars are too afraid to enter it.
This. Not to sound like an after school special but… Sports stars used to be hero’s, icons and role models. The grit, seeing hard work paying off. Playing all 82 was a badge of honor. Imagine if MJ played 65 games per season, he would have averaged 40 a game and we would have been able to save his body for the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. Now we have stars getting 40 million a year to play 2/3 of a season and opt out of things like dunk contests. MJ would never be okay with these guys winning the NBA dunk contests.
 

KPENN

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I’m not here to argue the GOAT stuff, but LeBron is a 40 year old averaging(rounding down) 24/7/8 shooting 52/40.
 
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