Mike Elko - Defensive Coordinator

[koonja]

I feel so bad for Derrick Allen. He was allegedly studying Elko's system for the past like 5 months, and now Elk-tard leaves for a ~15% raise.

 

[GATTACA!]

This will be much easier to understand for many of you guys if you come to grips with the fact that Elko left for more money AND more access to better talent.

He left for more money period. When ND gave him a bump to top 3 money after a&m came knocking the first time he was staying. a&m offered even more and he was gone.

 

[NDRock]

I feel so bad for Derrick Allen. He was allegedly studying Elko's system for the past like 5 months, and now Elk-tard leaves for a ~15% raise.

It's a good lesson for him to learn early, money trumps everything in our society.

 

[GATTACA!]

300 grand difference isn't going to burn he university!!! So because they were burned in the past with a different AD mind you, does that means we have to be ultra conservative??? That conservative approach doesn't work in today's college football. This isn't a head coaching search.

Dude go in to your place of work and tell them you got a higher paying job offer from another company. Tell them you want to stay with them but you would need a raise to justify turning down the new offers larger salary. Once your employer says "Sure arahop here's a raise that will make you the third highest paid person in your position in the country" turn around and say JK I need more! See what happens.

 

[IrishLion]

ND counter offered after the initial flirtation with aTm, and he verbally accepted a pay raise. Do you even know that he let ND counter after agreeing to the aTm offer? ND did step up to the plate and wasn't conservative. Remember, this is a guy that made huge strides for the defense, but is he proven enough to be the second highest paid DC in the country? I'm not so sure about that.

Yeah, the raise ND gave him already made him one of the top-three highest paid d-coordinators in the country according to a few sources... I can understand why ND wouldn't have wanted to start a bidding war to go so far above market value as it stood, considering they were already committed to paying Elko top dollar. They probably viewed it as fruitless to keep trying to inflate the pay for a guy that was already earning top dollar, especially since A&M seemed willing to keep counter-offering to beat ND's offers.

Of course, with Aranda's deal and now Elko's with A&M, ND will have to reevaluate how they feel about the new market values being established for the best coordinators out there, and will have to determine (in the future) if they are willing to spend that type of crazy money for the best-of-the-best, or if they will be a bit more conservative and try to find less-established, high-upside guys.

I understand why they weren't willing to go near ~$2M/yr for a coordinator without having time to evaluate a new market cap that literally sprang up over night.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I can't see anyone if ND's administrative hierarchy, be it AD, CFO, or President signing off on the third bite at the apple.

I don't blame ND for refusing to continue bidding against aTm. I'm just pointing out that there's reason to think we can't simply shrug and go after another top coordinator, since we may be getting priced out of that market by programs willing to spend anything.

Isn't Lea likely to jump with Elko anyway? He jumped with him last year. A&M has big oil and oil is UP right now.

Probably. The issue is that few coaches run Elko's system, and switching systems again would be a major setback to our defensive development and recruiting. Since we're likely going to have to gamble on an internal promotion or an external up and comer, our best option may be to snag Lea (probably along with another more experienced coach as Co-DC) for the sake of continuity. But if aTm is willing to throw ridiculous money at Lea as well, it won't matter.

 

[stlnd01]

This will be much easier to understand for many of you guys if you come to grips with the fact that Elko left for more money AND more access to better talent.

Meh. Even with Sumlin, and UT being down, we’ve had a higher-rated recruiting class than them three of the last four years. It was the money.

 

[koonja]

I don't blame ND for refusing to continue bidding against aTm. 10 years and $75m guaranteed for a DC is absurd, and is obviously unsustainable in the long term. I'm just pointing out that there's reason to think we can't simply shrug and go after another top coordinator, since we may be getting priced out of that market by programs willing to spend anything.



Probably. The issue is that few coaches run Elko's system, and switching systems again would be a major setback to our defensive development and recruiting. Since we're likely going to have to gamble on an internal promotion or an external up and comer, our best option may be to snag Lea (probably along with another more experienced coach as Co-DC) for the sake of continuity. But if aTm is willing to throw ridiculous money at Lea as well, it won't matter.

Are we 100% sure Lea would run Elko's exact system? I get that it's likely because he understands it, but he'd have full control for once. I feel like there's always something you'd do differently than your boss.

I really like my boss, and he's really good at what he does. But I'd somethings differently if I were in charge.

If he's all in on Elko's system, I want him to be the next DC. If not, I want an outside hire. I feel like Elston is getting screwed here, but I just don't get excited about him being the DC. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Are we 100% sure Lea would run Elko's exact system? I get that it's likely because he understands it, but he'd have full control for once. I feel like there's always something you'd do differently than your boss.

I really like my boss, and he's really good at what he does. But I'd somethings differently if I were in charge.

If he's all in on Elko's system, I want him to be the next DC. If not, I want an outside hire. I feel like Elston is getting screwed here, but I just don't get excited about him being the DC. Maybe it's just me.

I think its probable that Lea goes with Elko. Are we 100% that Elko left for money? is it possible he just didn't like working for BK? On the surface working for Jimbo seems to be a better gig.

 

[BoredIrish]

Are we 100% sure Lea would run Elko's exact system? I get that it's likely because he understands it, but he'd have full control for once. I feel like there's always something you'd do differently than your boss.

I really like my boss, and he's really good at what he does. But I'd somethings differently if I were in charge.

If he's all in on Elko's system, I want him to be the next DC. If not, I want an outside hire. I feel like Elston is getting screwed here, but I just don't get excited about him being the DC. Maybe it's just me.

I think the optics look real bad as well. Elston has been a loyal soldier for years. Its one thing to pass him over by hiring a new hot proven DC from the outside, but to hire some guy internally who has only been around for one year and who also has no coordinator experience (and is buddies with the Benedict Arnold ex-DC) would be a real slap in the face to Elston.

 

[Cackalacky]

Its kind of funny to me that everyone wanted Kelly to go outside his coaching tree. "He demands loyalty to a fault, he needs new blood, etc". Well he did and a non-loyal person he never worked with up and left after one season. Now I see people are mad because of the impacts on our incoming freshmen having to adjust to a new DC,....

 

[indianamouse]

I think its probable that Lea goes with Elko. Are we 100% that Elko left for money? is it possible he just didn't like working for BK? On the surface working for Jimbo seems to be a better gig.

I personally don't think Elko had a problem with BK. Otherwise, he would have jumped on A&M's first offer.

 

[arahop]

Dude go in to your place of work and tell them you got a higher paying job offer from another company. Tell them you want to stay with them but you would need a raise to justify turning down the new offers larger salary. Once your employer says "Sure arahop here's a raise that will make you the third highest paid person in your position in the country" turn around and say JK I need more! See what happens.

I get it. Elko apparently agreed verbally and then A&M kept offering more. I'm not saying I agree with Elko's ethics if that's how it played out.
But my career isn't college football and that's the way it's played now a day's. So your comparison isn't applicable. The market was set with Aranda and that set the market. If Notre Dame is going be serious about being a contender you can't lose these types of battles.
When it comes to battles of money Notre Dame shouldn't lose many of those and that's how it equates to winning in today's college landscape. If we can't recruit everyone we want because of academic standards then we sure as hell better pay top dollar for coaches. Whatever the perceived budget is, it needs to change for more on the field success. Notre Dame can control that

 

[IrishLax]

But Lax how do you know that ND didn’t originally have a buy out clause, but Elko wouldn’t sign if there was a buyout clause? From what we know now about Elmo’s ethics this is very plausible. ND was desperate for a DC, they put in buyout clause, Elko knew he had the upper hand and stated he wouldn’t sign with buyout clause.

OK then you don't hire him in the first place? If you're giving a 3-year guaranteed deal to someone to leave Wake Forest including a massive pay raise and you're saying "we're willing to make a 3 year commitment to you, fully guaranteed" and the guy on the other side of the table isn't willing to say "OK cool I'll make the same commitment to you" then maybe you shouldn't be hiring them.

Terms of contracts are negotiable, and if such a thing came up in negotiations there should've been a way to get a contract in place that gave ND some surety. As bad as the Weis deal was, the entire point of it was to make it damn near impossible from a financial standpoint for an NFL team to poach him. So regardless of how you want to look at it, there should basically be no situation ever as an AD where you are signing someone to a guaranteed deal for elite money... but they can just walk away whenever they want to greener pastures if they do well. No one does that, ever. Except us apparently.

To me this seems like you have unresolved personal issues with Jack S and the administration.

Sorry, this is beyond wrong. Go look at my posts in the BK revisited thread and elsewhere about Swarbrick I've always been a huge fan. I got in massive arguments with NDgradstudent about him.

This singular error is just absolutely massive, and that's why I'm reacting how I am.

Next time don't ask my opinion if you're going to hit me with this kind of nonsense.

 

[IrishTusker]

Some posters here are saying that it would have been pointless to match A&M’s offer because they would have kept going up, and up, and up. Eventually, though, they would have stopped, as with Aranda. LSU wanted to keep their guy and did so. Whether that would have been worth it for Elko, I don’t know for sure, but if the defense takes a step back this year it will be a legitimate question.

It could also be that Elko would rather coach under Fisher than under Kelly. Fisher is just starting at A&M while Kelly is probably nearing the end at ND. And say what you want about Fisher, but his overall record of success as a coach is better than Kelly’s. It’s the same reason Alex Grinch was apparently willing to take less money to coach at OSU. It could be a resume thing.

 

[connor_in]

My thing is that if TAMU is paying its HC and DC nearly $10 million a year, what amount are they paying the players, much less the other coaches. After all it is the $EC

 

[IrishLax]

Ding ding ding. I think this is exactly it. Also doesn't really seem like a desperate ND would be worried about someone poaching a first year coordinator that you're already paying top 10 money in the country to.

I can't blame Swarbrick or the BoT on this one. They offered him a contract that would have made him the 3rd highest paid coordinator in the country and he turned around and used it as leverage.

I got a weird vibe from Kelly's statement and this explains it. Kelly fought to keep him and Elko turned around and threw it back in his face. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that Swarbrick was willing to keep going and it was BK that said fuck it.

Lots of interesting lower level DC names being thrown around in here. If they really want to make a splash how about someone like Jack Del Rio? I don't think he's ever coached in college but he would certainly turn some heads. (and just bc fuck USC)

It was reported on ISD that after they negotiated the deal for 1.5+ the firs time around that when Elko came back the second time asking for ANOTHER pay bump that Swarbrick told him not to let the door hit him on the way out.

On one hand, that's noble and what Swarbrick should do. I don't blame them for walking away from someone using them as a bargaining chip and displaying zero loyalty.

On the other hand, when they negotiated the most recent raise they should've have had him sign it then and made sure the terms locked him in. Whatever they were going to agree to should have been a "done deal"... if not, they should've been prepared to be in a bidding war. At the end of the day $300k is a rounding error in the wealth of the university. And it's at most like 2% of the total buyouts they're going to be paying if Kelly goes 7-5 next year. So there's a question of missing the forest for the trees on "principle".

ND counter offered after the initial flirtation with aTm, and he verbally accepted a pay raise. Do you even know that he let ND counter after agreeing to the aTm offer? ND did step up to the plate and wasn't conservative. Remember, this is a guy that made huge strides for the defense, but is he proven enough to be the second highest paid DC in the country? I'm not so sure about that.

Yeah, it was reported he went back to ND for more money.

Some posters here are saying that it would have been pointless to match A&M’s offer because they would have kept going up, and up, and up. Eventually, though, they would have stopped, as with Aranda. LSU wanted to keep their guy and did so. Whether that would have been worth it for Elko, I don’t know for sure, but if the defense takes a step back this year it will be a legitimate question.

It could also be that Elko would rather coach under Fisher than under Kelly. Fisher is just starting at A&M while Kelly is probably nearing the end at ND. And say what you want about Fisher, but his overall record of success as a coach is better than Kelly’s. It’s the same reason Alex Grinch was apparently willing to take less money to coach at OSU. It could be a resume thing.

Yes, this is good analysis. There is a number where they could've locked in Elko as evidenced by the fact that he went back a second time for a counter. There is also a number where A&M would've stopped. If you think he is "the guy" you should really be willing to spend whatever it takes. If you don't, then letting him walk makes sense.

With Fisher, if they have early success he can parlay that success into a HC job within like 3 years.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

He left for more money period. When ND gave him a bump to top 3 money after a&m came knocking the first time he was staying. a&m offered even more and he was gone.

Money was part of it, not all of it. You don't break up with your girlfriend because another girl has bigger tits.

 

[IrishLion]

Yes, this is good analysis. There is a number where they could've locked in Elko as evidenced by the fact that he went back a second time for a counter. There is also a number where A&M would've stopped. If you think he is "the guy" you should really be willing to spend whatever it takes. If you don't, then letting him walk makes sense.

This is where I kind of disagree after stewing on it for ~12 hours.

This is a new market that ND was thrown into negotiations for. It is a market that was literally being created by LSU/A&M/Aranda/Elko as the situation progressed. I understand it's chump change in the grand scheme of what ND has at their disposal if they had decided to go back-and-forth, but I also can't totally fault them for not wanting to enter a bidding war, when they were already prepared to make Elko the third-highest paid coordinator in the country.

It's chump change, but it's also a new market with new values, and I understand if ND didn't want to get near $2M/yr for a coordinator without having time to study things with a broad, market-based outlook.

I WILL join you in faulting Swarbrick for a terrible initial contract. But not for refusing to battle with A&M.

 

[Blaise]

Money was part of it, not all of it. You don't break up with your girlfriend because another girl has bigger tits.

I broke up with a high school gf cuz a cheerleader with the best tits in the school, told me she liked me

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Meh. Even with Sumlin, and UT being down, we’ve had a higher-rated recruiting class than them three of the last four years. It was the money.

A&M has been a mess defensively during Sumlin's entire time there, and John Chavis isn't known for his recruiting ability. ND has recruited better because they have had better recruiters and the A&M ship has been sinking since Manziel left.

A&M with the right guys in place could fill out their entire defensive roster recruiting 3 states (TX, CA, LA) with zero academic restrictions. Like I said in another post, Elko left for more money but that wasn't it.

 

[gkIrish]

Knowing what we know my feeling is that Swarbrick and the administration know that BK won't be here after next year. Either (a) he does well and jumps to another job (we know he has looked around) or (b) we lose 4-5 games and they have already decided to fire him if that happens.

So Swarbrick figures why does it makes sense for me to get into a bidding war to retain a guy that we will have to likely let go next year anyway when the new coach wants to bring in his own guy.

I know Lax and other people have mentioned some of the above so that's the theory that seems most likely to me.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Some posters here are saying that it would have been pointless to match A&M’s offer because they would have kept going up, and up, and up. Eventually, though, they would have stopped, as with Aranda. LSU wanted to keep their guy and did so. Whether that would have been worth it for Elko, I don’t know for sure, but if the defense takes a step back this year it will be a legitimate question.

It could also be that Elko would rather coach under Fisher than under Kelly. Fisher is just starting at A&M while Kelly is probably nearing the end at ND. And say what you want about Fisher, but his overall record of success as a coach is better than Kelly’s. It’s the same reason Alex Grinch was apparently willing to take less money to coach at OSU. It could be a resume thing.

This is where i'm at. uproot after 1 season and leave Notre Dame for 300k? Eh, there is more to it. Or Elko has some serious credit card debt.

 

[NDRock]

This is where I kind of disagree after stewing on it for ~12 hours.

This is a new market that ND was thrown into negotiations for. It is a market that was literally being created by LSU/A&M/Aranda/Elko as the situation progressed. I understand it's chump change in the grand scheme of what ND has at their disposal if they had decided to go back-and-forth, but I also can't totally fault them for not wanting to enter a bidding war, when they were already prepared to make Elko the third-highest paid coordinator in the country.

It's chump change, but it's also a new market with new values, and I understand if ND didn't want to get near $2M/yr for a coordinator without having time to study things with a broad, market-based outlook.

I WILL join you in faulting Swarbrick for a terrible initial contract. But not for refusing to battle with A&M.

And this is the way ND operates. When have they been at the forefront of anything lately (regarding football)? We always seen to wait, see what others are doing, study the implications, and then years later decide to catch up. Seems like a very conservative approach and one that hasn't translated into desired results.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Money was part of it, not all of it. You don't break up with your girlfriend because another girl has bigger tits.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/29wxGMeuBAFLa" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/basketball-johnny-depp-ellen-degeneres-29wxGMeuBAFLa">via GIPHY</a></p>

and they were spectacular

 

[NDRock]

This is where i'm at. uproot after 1 season and leave Notre Dame for 300k? Eh, there is more to it. Or Elko has some serious credit card debt.

Also no state income tax. That's a lot of money. Throw in the ability to work with a NC winning HC and at a school that is all in on winning and it's a desirable destination. Obviously, I wouldn't leave ND for that but I'm a fan.

 

[IrishLion]

And this is the way ND operates. When have they been at the forefront of anything lately (regarding football)? We always seen to wait, see what others are doing, study the implications, and then years later decide to catch up. Seems like a very conservative approach and one that hasn't translated into desired results.

I agree with you on program-related, big-picture stuff, like the training table and athletic facilities, etc. That was all long overdue.

But contracts and market value that involves millions of dollars on whim, in such a fickle profession where a guy can leave or get bought out at a moment's notice, is different.

ND isn't going to fall behind for failing to match Elko's offer. They are going to fall behind if they whiff on the next big coordinator offer they make because they fail to properly evaluate the new market.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Knowing what we know my feeling is that Swarbrick and the administration know that BK won't be here after next year. Either (a) he does well and jumps to another job (we know he has looked around) or (b) we lose 4-5 games and they have already decided to fire him if that happens.

So Swarbrick figures why does it makes sense for me to get into a bidding war to retain a guy that we will have to likely let go next year anyway when the new coach wants to bring in his own guy.

I know Lax and other people have mentioned some of the above so that's the theory that seems most likely to me.

BK isn't going anywhere unless he is fired. His NFL clock has struck midnight and he is on the second half of his fifties. That's not the oldest coach ever, but coming off of 9 or 10 seasons at ND takes a toll and I doubt he would want to get into a another high pressure gig.

 

[NDRock]

I agree with you on program-related, big-picture stuff, like the training table and athletic facilities, etc. That was all long overdue.

But contracts and market value that involves millions of dollars on whim, in such a fickle profession where a guy can leave or get bought out at a moment's notice, is different.

ND isn't going to fall behind for failing to match Elko's offer. They are going to fall behind if they whiff on the next big coordinator offer they make because they fail to properly evaluate the new market.

If they match Elko's offer, there is no chance of whiffing on the next big coordinator offer.

 

[IrishLion]

If they match Elko's offer, there is no chance of whiffing on the next big coordinator offer.

This is going to be a roundabout debate, because your statement ignores my initial stance which is "I understand why they didn't want to enter a bidding war. There is a new market to evaluate, and you don't throw unprecedented money at a guy just because LSU did."