Marcus Freeman named Dick Corbett Head Football Coach

greyhammer90

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Lol I can't believe that saying that a HC should be credited for his wins is a controversial take on here. I hope you all are right and there's no slow down, but a regression to the mean in tight games wouldn't be shocking. The Fiesta Bowl took this slight worry and turned into something that I'm anxious about seeing next year. That's all.
 

Crazy Balki

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Lol I can't believe that saying that a HC should be credited for his wins is a controversial take on here. I hope you all are right and there's no slow down, but a regression to the mean in tight games wouldn't be shocking. The Fiesta Bowl took this slight worry and turned into something that I'm anxious about seeing next year. That's all.
Lol.

You base this off of 1 games, in which we had a month to prepare, after spending most of said month in a mad scramble to find a new head coach, vet him, get his staff in place, fly all over creation to keep the 2022 recruiting class in tact, and then have to prep for a bowl game against a legit top 10 opponent, without his two best players on both sides of the ball, on top of being captains.

Can't say that's a fair critique of Freeman in the slightest. Not to mention, it's not like Kelly faired very well against the same caliber of teams, even post reboot.
 

irishog77

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Lol.

You base this off of 1 games, in which we had a month to prepare, after spending most of said month in a mad scramble to find a new head coach, vet him, get his staff in place, fly all over creation to keep the 2022 recruiting class in tact, and then have to prep for a bowl game against a legit top 10 opponent, without his two best players on both sides of the ball, on top of being captains.

Can't say that's a fair critique of Freeman in the slightest. Not to mention, it's not like Kelly faired very well against the same caliber of teams, even post reboot.
But Balis was there, with the actual team, that entire month.

Can’t Kelly and Balis both get credit for the winning culture of the last 5 years?
 

Luckylucci

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The man responsible for the reboot is Brian Kelly, full stop. Balis is important to the football program. But, he is literally not here without Brian Kelly and that is a fact. As he wasn’t here before Brian Kelly. And, in case you didn’t know. He came from UConn. Fricking UCon. Kelly hired the S&C coach from UCon and you’re going to sit here and like like it was the UCon S&C coach not everything else Brian Kelly did plus this hire, that got us here. Like I said, this is sad logic dude.

Head coach Brian Kelly has stressed the importance of culture and traits since 2016 and he made sure to reiterate that message during pregame.

"I don't think people know this, but Coach Kelly emphasized that before the game," stated cornerback Cam Hart on the podcast. "He walked around to every section and he was like, 'Make high-fives a big thing today.'

"I felt I was trying to help him, but at the same time, I'm trying to do what Coach Kelly was preaching before the game," Hamilton said. "You can see it really works mentally throughout a game because you have so many mental highs and lows.
 

Ndaccountant

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Lol I can't believe that saying that a HC should be credited for his wins is a controversial take on here. I hope you all are right and there's no slow down, but a regression to the mean in tight games wouldn't be shocking. The Fiesta Bowl took this slight worry and turned into something that I'm anxious about seeing next year. That's all.
Well, I think it's fair to point some things out here over the last few years.

I have said this numerous times, so people can look back at my history and don't label me as revisionist. But ND has benefited GREATLY from a historically weak schedule over the last few seasons (from a ND historical perspective). The ACC minus Clemson, Stanford and USC have all been dreadful the last couple seasons. I hope we can all agree to that.

I bring that up because the close games / mentally tough victories we are speaking of often came against teams we really shouldn't have been in a close game with. ND often won those games because of depth and talent (which BK should get credit for). But I refuse to ignore that outside of a Clemson game that was a confluence of good fortune (mainly injuries), we can't point to a game that BK ever out performed the team's talent level. That, to me, is just as much about culture than winning the close games against teams that you should beat. BK would fall back on the "winning is hard" line. That is true, winning 10+ games in college football isn't a slam dunk. But if you have consistently top 10ish talent, you should be doing just that.

As far as the Okie State game goes, I guess the biggest question that lingers is whether or not OSU was the best team we faced last year. I put Cinci and OSU neck and neck. Not much of a difference. But the ND team down the stretch was aided by shitty opponents. There is no denying that. Considering how the Cinci game went, are we really surprised that ND lost by a narrow margin? I think with or without BK, ND probably loses that game though the flow of the game would have been different. I don't think BK blows that big of a lead, but I also don't think he would have gotten that large of a lead to begin with.

I will end it with this....Freeman and Tommy will have numerous WTF moments next year. No doubt in my mind. But I won't judge MF on 2022. I will judge him on 2024. I think Freeman will collect the best roster ND has since in 25+ years. It's a question of whether or not he can leverage it like Holtz did. We'll see.
 

Luckylucci

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Balis is an important part of everything but still only part of everything Brian Kelly did. Which is why it’s Brian Kelly’s culture not Balis’s. Anyways. I said I wouldn’t be going down this rabbit hole and I’ve already ventured further than a sane person should.
 

Crazy Balki

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But Balis was there, with the actual team, that entire month.

Can’t Kelly and Balis both get credit for the winning culture of the last 5 years?
I mean, I stated that Kelly should get credit for it. He hired Balis and several other key hires that allowed the reboot to happen.

But I also stated that Balis is at the center of the culture being instilled. He laid the foundation and did the work from January through July. That's when you build the leadership and the toughness of the team, through the dog days of summer and winter workouts.

As for the month, Balis was there, but as I stated before, there was a myriad of distractions throughout that entire month. And again, that foundation of quality leadership was lost, because two of the captains and best players on the team, opted out of the game. That takes away a huge factor of what Balis has helped build.
 

Crazy Balki

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The man responsible for the reboot is Brian Kelly, full stop. Balis is important to the football program. But, he is literally not here without Brian Kelly and that is a fact. As he wasn’t here before Brian Kelly. And, in case you didn’t know. He came from UConn. Fricking UCon. Kelly hired the S&C coach from UCon and you’re going to sit here and like like it was the UCon S&C coach not everything else Brian Kelly did plus this hire, that got us here. Like I said, this is sad logic dude.

But, for the third time, Kelly himself couldn't build the culture. If he could, he'd have done it when he arrived, not 7 years after that.

Again, Kelly hired Balis and that's a commendable hire. Kelly should be given credit for it.

But this is about the culture moving forward, and Balis being retained is a HUGE part of maintaining and enhancing the culture that was built through the prior 5 seasons.

As for Balis coming from UConn? Balis worked with Urban Meyer at Utah and Florida with Mickey Marotti prior to that. So the guy clearly knows what's needed to build a championship level team.

Are you seriously holding it against him that he couldn't single handedly fix a sinking ship that was UConn football? Their program was already in dire straits prior to him arriving with Diaco. After Edsel left, his predecessors completely neglected recruiting. So Balis was working with laughably inferior talent across the board. Balis is an elite S&C coach, not a miracle worker. You still need talent to win games.

Now it's possible that ND could finish next season 9-3 or something disappointing to that extent. But I'd wager if they do finish the year with that record, it'll be because the competition is tougher than it has traditionally been.

As it's been stated, while ND has won the games it's expected to win, the schedules have been extremely manageable for much of the last 5 years. The last two years especially. In 2021, we played 1 team in the regular season that finished the year ranked, and lost. In 2020, we played 2, and won both, but the caveat being that win over Clemson being without Trevor Lawrence.

Kelly has gotten things done when he's expected to win, but he also has rarely had to deal with significant big time matchups. He's had 1 or 2 the last 4 seasons. Michigan in 2018, Georgia and Michigan in 2019 (lost both), Clemson and UNC in 2020, Cincinnati in 2021. I'd say it's a lot easier to win the games you're expected to win when you don't have very many big-time matchups to worry about. That likely won't be the case in '22, with a lot of seemingly strong teams, with a lesser chance they fizzle like UNC and Wisconsin did last year.

The reality is that Kelly has gotten ND to the point where they win games they're expected to win, but as Accountant stated, it's mainly because we were able to out-talent and out-depth those teams. Kelly should be commended for that, but if there's one thing that Kelly wasn't doing well enough at, it was putting forth the effort on the recruiting trail. Freeman, so far, is dominating on the trail. So considering the man responsible for laying the foundation for the physical/mental toughness is still here and we now have a coach who emphasizes getting more talent and depth than his predecessor, it's fair to conclude that we may continue to win those games where we out-talent and depth our opposition.
 
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ulukinatme

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I would love to know Lou's thoughts on MF.
I thought it was mentioned a few weeks ago that they've talked quite a bit. There seems to be some mutual respect there, which is good to see. I think it's good to see MF reaching out to Lou. It didn't seem like Kelly was often in contact with him during his time at ND and Lou is one of the few left that knows what you need to win here.
 

clashmore_mike

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I would love to know Lou's thoughts on MF.
I thought it was mentioned a few weeks ago that they've talked quite a bit. There seems to be some mutual respect there, which is good to see. I think it's good to see MF reaching out to Lou. It didn't seem like Kelly was often in contact with him during his time at ND and Lou is one of the few left that knows what you need to win here.
MF just posted this yesterday.

 

IrishRazor82

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BK was a vastly underrated staff filler. He took ND from tier 3/4 to tier 2/3 which is massive program improvement. Freeman may be just what we need to go to tier 1/2, but BK was exactly what ND needed over the past decade and he deserves high credit. He made us disappointed in a 10 win season - that's saying something.
 

Irish4life

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I hope closing this gap is on MF's short list. Goosebumps watching this.


Penn State is a giant state school with an extremely localized student body/alumni base. ND is a tiny private school with one of the most national student body populations/alumni bases in America. We're never going to have a home game atmosphere like Penn State.
 

Irish#1

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BK was a vastly underrated staff filler. He took ND from tier 3/4 to tier 2/3 which is massive program improvement. Freeman may be just what we need to go to tier 1/2, but BK was exactly what ND needed over the past decade and he deserves high credit. He made us disappointed in a 10 win season - that's saying something.
Agree. Balis has a lot to do with the change, but it was Kelly that was smart enough to hire him. There's no reason credit can't be given to more than one person.
 

bumpdaddy

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I hope closing this gap is on MF's short list. Goosebumps watching this.


That's a bullshit tweet. The jumbotron at the stadium does the most to get the ND crowd amped up, especially during big moments against top opponents. It's much more effective than the band or even the crowd on its own. Also, PSU has many more students. Students account for most of the noise in any college stadium.

There is one crowd issue that needs to be addressed. Some of the lame "sit down in front" fans are making a comeback in the stadium. The ND sports-media department needs to reboot the "Take a StaND" campaign they put out several years back.
 

T-Boone

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Kelly is one of the best college coaches. Top 3 in my opinion.
There is a solid chance freeman is not as good at head coaching. If so hopefully his awesome recruiting more than makes up for it.
 

StPaul_Irish

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Kelly is one of the best college coaches. Top 3 in my opinion.
There is a solid chance freeman is not as good at head coaching. If so hopefully his awesome recruiting more than makes up for it.

FBK is a very good coach however. I found myself asking if he was ok with being good, but was afraid of being great? He never dropped the hammer on teams, he was lax in recruiting ect. I just always got the feeling that he knows how to be just good enough, knocking on the door, but something held him back. Just zero killer instinct.

I want MFMF to beat teams by 100. Don't like it? To fing bad, get better. Do you think, Day, Meyer, Saban, Dabo hold back? NO... they are killers. When a team is dead, they pour gas on them and light a match.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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FBK is a very good coach however. I found myself asking if he was ok with being good, but was afraid of being great? He never dropped the hammer on teams, he was lax in recruiting ect. I just always got the feeling that he knows how to be just good enough, knocking on the door, but something held him back. Just zero killer instinct.

I want MFMF to beat teams by 100. Don't like it? To fing bad, get better. Do you think, Day, Meyer, Saban, Dabo hold back? NO... they are killers. When a team is dead, they pour gas on them and light a match.
He swung for the fences in recruiting early on and got burned with misses and high levels of attrition.

I think he just became risk-averse.
 

StPaul_Irish

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He swung for the fences in recruiting early on and got burned with misses and high levels of attrition.

I think he just became risk-averse.
1000% agree. Risk Averse is the way to describe him. He would rather take a win 12-3 and not risk anything vs going for broke. Not saying that is always bad, but just never appeared that FBK wanted to stick the knife in and twist it around.

Teams are scared of Bama, Clemson, OSU ect, because they don't mess around. They come out and treat each game like they may never eat if they don't destroy. We need that killer mindset. Bring in some SEALs or Delta guys. Let them talking about the winners mindset.

Im all gung ho today fellas.
 

NorthDakota

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Penn State is a giant state school with an extremely localized student body/alumni base. ND is a tiny private school with one of the most national student body populations/alumni bases in America. We're never going to have a home game atmosphere like Penn State.
There is a video on YouTube of the ND crowd getting a 15 yard penalty for being too loud back when that was still a thing.

I think you are correct that Penn State is a bad comp.... but the idea that Notre Dame Stadium can't be a miserable place for opponents is wrong.

Students absolutely are the easiest conduit to having a loud stadium. But they aren't alone. A lot of it is attitudes of the people at the game.
 

irishog77

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FBK is a very good coach however. I found myself asking if he was ok with being good, but was afraid of being great? He never dropped the hammer on teams, he was lax in recruiting ect. I just always got the feeling that he knows how to be just good enough, knocking on the door, but something held him back. Just zero killer instinct.

I want MFMF to beat teams by 100. Don't like it? To fing bad, get better. Do you think, Day, Meyer, Saban, Dabo hold back? NO... they are killers. When a team is dead, they pour gas on them and light a match.

1000% agree. Risk Averse is the way to describe him. He would rather take a win 12-3 and not risk anything vs going for broke. Not saying that is always bad, but just never appeared that FBK wanted to stick the knife in and twist it around.

Teams are scared of Bama, Clemson, OSU ect, because they don't mess around. They come out and treat each game like they may never eat if they don't destroy. We need that killer mindset. Bring in some SEALs or Delta guys. Let them talking about the winners mindset.

Im all gung ho today fellas.
I think Burnt Ends made a very nice living and career out of the above. Nothing necessarily wrong with that- pretty much any of us would take that in our work and careers. And then he took F-U type of money from lsu to finish out his career. Again, nothing necessarily wrong with that.

But sports and coaching are different than 99% of other careers. He'll never be great or revered or considered one of the best- by anybody or any fan base. His greatest accomplishment, when it's all said and done, will be that he was good enough to achieve generational wealth.
 

Crazy Balki

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1000% agree. Risk Averse is the way to describe him. He would rather take a win 12-3 and not risk anything vs going for broke. Not saying that is always bad, but just never appeared that FBK wanted to stick the knife in and twist it around.

Teams are scared of Bama, Clemson, OSU ect, because they don't mess around. They come out and treat each game like they may never eat if they don't destroy. We need that killer mindset. Bring in some SEALs or Delta guys. Let them talking about the winners mindset.

Im all gung ho today fellas.
I can't say I agree with the notion that Kelly was simply risk averse.

He just didn't put in the work on the recruiting trail necessary to land the very best recruits on a consistent basis.

That isn't to say he didn't put in any work or he was a bad recruiter. But we are seeing first hand that Freeman is putting a FAR greater emphasis on recruiting and is more involved in the early process of recruiting particular players. Kelly acted as more of a closer, and that simply wasn't good enough if the goal was to close the gap with the elite programs. And the results are starting to speak for themselves.

Honestly, even if Kelly did back off of swinging for the fences because he was afraid of getting burned, it didn't work. He still got burned regardless. We wouldn't be in the hole at DB and receiver that we are if he was truly just risk averse, because his strategy (or lack thereof) was littered with risk. That's not to mention that he still ended up with players who didn't live up to their ranking, even if they weren't quite the top 25-50 caliber players he was swinging for.
 

Free Manera

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I can't say I agree with the notion that Kelly was simply risk averse.

He just didn't put in the work on the recruiting trail necessary to land the very best recruits on a consistent basis.

That isn't to say he didn't put in any work or he was a bad recruiter. But we are seeing first hand that Freeman is putting a FAR greater emphasis on recruiting and is more involved in the early process of recruiting particular players. Kelly acted as more of a closer, and that simply wasn't good enough if the goal was to close the gap with the elite programs. And the results are starting to speak for themselves.

Honestly, even if Kelly did back off of swinging for the fences because he was afraid of getting burned, it didn't work. He still got burned regardless. We wouldn't be in the hole at DB and receiver that we are if he was truly just risk averse, because his strategy (or lack thereof) was littered with risk. That's not to mention that he still ended up with players who didn't live up to their ranking, even if they weren't quite the top 25-50 caliber players he was swinging for.
Agree with all that. But the more that comes out, the more it seems the bolded is true. He made some in home visits after the season. That’s about it. He didn’t call or text guys let alone multiple guys every single day. He didn’t even see guys when they were on campus half the time. Any success ND had recruiting under Kelly was due to the appeal of ND itself and the assistant coaches.

We were all duped into thinking top 5 classes at ND were impossible. They aren’t. In fact if it wasn’t for NIL (brutal timing since ND finally is hiring elite recruiters again) I would’ve been betting on ND having #1 for 2023.
 

BrownerandFry

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Sorry I care about wins and losses.

Discussions about "who should get credit" remind me of two things

"All things are possible when it doesn't matter who gets credit" Barry Switzer, and a hundred other people.

Biktarvy commercials.
 

Luckylucci

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Agree with all that. But the more that comes out, the more it seems the bolded is true. He made some in home visits after the season. That’s about it. He didn’t call or text guys let alone multiple guys every single day. He didn’t even see guys when they were on campus half the time. Any success ND had recruiting under Kelly was due to the appeal of ND itself and the assistant coaches.

We were all duped into thinking top 5 classes at ND were impossible. They aren’t. In fact if it wasn’t for NIL (brutal timing since ND finally is hiring elite recruiters again) I would’ve been betting on ND having #1 for 2023.
I’m not going to pretend like BK was as active as he should be but the bolded is just not true. I’m not here to white knight Kelly but this stuff is turning into total insanity. He literally just personally recruited Devin Moore. And, per Devin, BK leaving was a reason for his de-commitment. There were a handful of recruitments that BK personally handled most cycles. And then he got involved later in the process for a lot of the others. They literally held recruiting events at BK’s lake house where he was extremely engaged with recruits and their families. Prior to the pandemic those were a smashing success.

Can you call it flawed? Of course. Can you say it wasn’t good enough? Have at it. But let’s stop re-writing history here. It’s getting a little much. We should all want to love Freeman for Freeman. Not because we have to lie about the reality we just lived through.
 
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