Marcus Freeman named Dick Corbett Head Football Coach

PutuporShutup

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So youre arguing the scheme being stupid and ineffective by hanging your hat on an example of a play from 2 years ago where foskey started 4 (not 10 yds) off the ball, dropped right into the throwing lane for Travis’ first look which caused him to hold onto the ball, take a sack and nearly end up with a scoop and score.
Oh what a world we live in.
Yes the scheme was stupid for our personnel. If you go 3 down you need 3 monsters on the DLine to eat up the oline. We didn't and still don' really have that personnel.

Are we not talking about Freemans coaching ability at ND? I'm not really sure how September 2021 is 2 years ago? Did you not watch the game vs FSU where we were in 3 down probably over 50% and they kept gashing us on it? Do i really need to find the article/interview where freeman admits to being shell shocked at FSU that the scheme he worked on and coached all spring/fall was being gashed and how he had to figure out how to tweak it but couldn't abandon it due to it being foundational for the plan that season.

IF you are truly claiming we didn't play 3 down much at all in 2021 with DEs dropping in coverage (ND getting gashed) there's no point in us discussing this or even freeman.
 

NDohio

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Are we not talking about Freemans coaching ability at ND? I'm not really sure how September 2021 is 2 years ago? Did you not watch the game vs FSU where we were in 3 down probably over 50% and they kept gashing us on it? Do i really need to find the article/interview where freeman admits to being shell shocked at FSU that the scheme he worked on and coached all spring/fall was being gashed and how he had to figure out how to tweak it but couldn't abandon it due to it being foundational for the plan that season.

IF you are truly claiming we didn't play 3 down much at all in 2021 with DEs dropping in coverage (ND getting gashed) there's no point in us discussing this or even freeman.
Did you miss the part where the FSU game was the first game of the season and MF did make adjustments and the defense improved greatly throughout the season and as a result were ranked in the top 15 by year's end, and they continued to improve even after the best defensive player on the team got hurt and by the end of the season we were shutting down teams on a regular basis and...
 

317Irish

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Apologies, i'm not on here enough, what's your opinion on our DE usage in coverage?
Being diverse, giving multiple looks, and creating uncertainty for the offense (QB specifically) in general is a positive. Foskey has the athleticism to drop, and I think there was an effectiveness at times in doing so. There’s a limitation to how much I personally would want to see him drop vs rush/hang around the LOS, but I’m also able admit that just maybe the coaches can game plan for an offense better than myself. It seems to me that you’re not taking that into consideration with your argument.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I believe we were 44th in total D in 2021, and like 22nd last year. PPG flip flopped due to SOS flip flop.
According to who? Provide a link if you're going to make such definitive statements. We're all interested in the numbers because they help us get an idea of how things've changed year over year.

Here's the FEI rankings for defense (includes adjustment for opponents)
FEI rankings link

2018 - 20th
2019 - 8th
2020 - 24th
2021 - 11th
2022 - 31st

Our red zone defense was atrocious and our offense failed to keep drives going. Here's more stats to explain:
BCF Toys PPD - point per drive:
BCF Toys PPD link

2018 - 10th
2019 - 6th
2020 - 12th
2021 - 9th
2022 - 21st
 

stlnd01

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The first time I paid any real attention to Freeman as a coach was watching the fourth quarter of Cincy v Georgia bowl game at the end of the 2020 season and Cincy just got shredded running that three-man front, allowing Georgia to march down the field for a game-winning field goal. Then that FSU game, which was pretty ugly.

But he adjusted and our defense was really pretty good in 2021, as all these stats indicate. Not really that worried about Freeman's acumen as a defensive coach. But, again, now that he is a head coach, it's frankly more important is who he hires as DC.
 

PutuporShutup

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The first time I paid any real attention to Freeman as a coach was watching the fourth quarter of Cincy v Georgia bowl game at the end of the 2020 season and Cincy just got shredded running that three-man front, allowing Georgia to march down the field for a game-winning field goal. Then that FSU game, which was pretty ugly.

But he adjusted and our defense was really pretty good in 2021, as all these stats indicate. Not really that worried about Freeman's acumen as a defensive coach. But, again, now that he is a head coach, it's frankly more important is who he hires as DC.
Agree with this and the plan for Ohio State was really really good, but then Marshall happened the following week and Cal the week after that. Also Stanford happened after good wins vs UNC & BYU (Despite them both being over rated).

If I was really confident in this staff I would be really confident in 10-2 or better this year as we have that type of talent and ability on the team this year.

I hope the staff gels, grows, and we crush it with a good shot at the CFP. We obviously play 3 really good teams. The team that is away (clemson) is probably the worst of the 3 depending on how Klubnik develops vs Ohio States QB.
 
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GowerND11

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Agree with this and the plan for Ohio State was really really good, but then Marshall happened the following week and Cal the week after that. Also Stanford happened after good wins vs UNC & BYU (Despite them both being over rated).

If I was really confident in this staff I would be really confident in 10-2 or better this year as we have that type of talent and ability on the team this year.

I hope the staff gels, grows, and we crush it with a good shot at the CFP. We obviously play 3 really good teams. The team that is away (clemson) is probably the worst of the 3 depending on how Klubnik develops vs Ohio States QB.
What about Cal Marshall and Stanford? Cal scored 17, Stanford 16, and Marshall scored 2 offensive touchdowns? These weren't games the D shit the bed. These were limited offensive outputs due to limitations at QB, not Freeman and the defense.
 

Te'o4Heisman

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Yes the scheme was stupid for our personnel. If you go 3 down you need 3 monsters on the DLine to eat up the oline. We didn't and still don' really have that personnel.

Are we not talking about Freemans coaching ability at ND? I'm not really sure how September 2021 is 2 years ago? Did you not watch the game vs FSU where we were in 3 down probably over 50% and they kept gashing us on it? Do i really need to find the article/interview where freeman admits to being shell shocked at FSU that the scheme he worked on and coached all spring/fall was being gashed and how he had to figure out how to tweak it but couldn't abandon it due to it being foundational for the plan that season.

IF you are truly claiming we didn't play 3 down much at all in 2021 with DEs dropping in coverage (ND getting gashed) there's no point in us discussing this or even freeman.
You dont understand how the first game of the season in the 2021 season was 2 years ago? You’re special man. Let’s see, how about because since then the ND football team has played 25 football games, and a year/season in terms of college football games is 12 games?

3 down vs dropping D lineman into coverage are not the same thing thing so its illogical and I would go as fas as to say stupid to make an argument that dropping Foskey into coverage was problematic just because the team struggled overall when operating in 3 down fronts, then using an example of a sack play because dropping Foskey into coverage completely disrupted the play as your example.
 

PutuporShutup

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You dont understand how the first game of the season in the 2021 season was 2 years ago? You’re special man. Let’s see, how about because since then the ND football team has played 25 football games, and a year/season in terms of college football games is 12 games?

3 down vs dropping D lineman into coverage are not the same thing thing so its illogical and I would go as fas as to say stupid to make an argument that dropping Foskey into coverage was problematic just because the team struggled overall when operating in 3 down fronts, then using an example of a sack play because dropping Foskey into coverage completely disrupted the play as your example.
So you agree that having a 3 down front and having dlinemen not DROPPED into coverage but actually 5+ yards (pre snap) back in coverage is bad?

The point on 2 years is 2 years ago Freeman was crafting and coaching this 3 down scheme for ND, 1.5 years ago that scheme got shredded vs Florida state and was a base for the 2021 season. It hurt us in critical moments near halves and end of games in the 2021 season especially vs Cincinnati and OK State. Cincy got the ball with less than 2 minutes and drove 80 yards in one minute for a TD right before the half. OK state got the ball with 90 seconds left and it took them 40 seconds to score a TD before the half. All of this with a lot of 3 down, a lot of it with DEs in coverage to "take away throwing lanes" with their length. What should have been a major lesson learned vs FSU carried over the entire season and into 2022 just over a year ago. Golden didn't do quite as much 3 down but we did some, we don't have the right personnel, and it still didn't work well. Goldens big difference last year was we were in nickel a lot, even in short yardage, even in the red zone. When golden went 3 down, he didn't have DEs in coverage like Freeman did. But we still got gashed with the run when in 3 down. Your LBs have to cover space fast!!! That's not Marist or Betrand.
 

Te'o4Heisman

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So you agree that having a 3 down front and having dlinemen not DROPPED into coverage but actually 5+ yards (pre snap) back in coverage is bad?

The point on 2 years is 2 years ago Freeman was crafting and coaching this 3 down scheme for ND, 1.5 years ago that scheme got shredded vs Florida state and was a base for the 2021 season. It hurt us in critical moments near halves and end of games in the 2021 season especially vs Cincinnati and OK State. Cincy got the ball with less than 2 minutes and drove 80 yards in one minute for a TD right before the half. OK state got the ball with 90 seconds left and it took them 40 seconds to score a TD before the half. All of this with a lot of 3 down, a lot of it with DEs in coverage to "take away throwing lanes" with their length. What should have been a major lesson learned vs FSU carried over the entire season and into 2022 just over a year ago. Golden didn't do quite as much 3 down but we did some, we don't have the right personnel, and it still didn't work well. Goldens big difference last year was we were in nickel a lot, even in short yardage, even in the red zone. When golden went 3 down, he didn't have DEs in coverage like Freeman did. But we still got gashed with the run when in 3 down. Your LBs have to cover space fast!!! That's not Marist or Betrand.
What?
 

PutuporShutup

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What about Cal Marshall and Stanford? Cal scored 17, Stanford 16, and Marshall scored 2 offensive touchdowns? These weren't games the D shit the bed. These were limited offensive outputs due to limitations at QB, not Freeman and the defense.
Freeman was coach of 2022 and responsible for the entire team

Marshall rushed for over 200 yards vs ND, no turnovers, 21 first downs, over 30 minutes TOP - that can NOT happen. Agree though the offense was awful, but the D wasn't much better.

Cal was 4-8, they were a really bad football team. I do agree this game wasn't on the D. This is more a reflection on coaching because Freeman in 2022 was responsible for the entire team

Stanford - Possibly the worst team we played all season. 21 first downs, almost 400 total yards (significantly more than ND). Yes offense was awful, but again, freeman was responsible for the team. I know estime gets flack for the fumble, but this was a game ND on both sides didn't play up to any level of standard.

All 3 of these games were at home!!
 

Te'o4Heisman

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I don't think you understand the difference between dropping into coverage from the DE position vs having DEs as LBs in coverage pre snap.
I very clearly understand the difference, but every time somebody backs your stupid arguments into a corner you just divert and make the debate about something else. You were ranting about the poor scheme of utilizing DEs in coverage, but when i pointed out the example you provided being acade where the scheme worked to perfection and results in a sack, you changed the conversation to how poor we were when lined up in 3 man fronts which is an entirely different point than when we used D lineman in coverage, since we lined up in plenty of 3 man fronts without dlineman in coverage. They are different things. Foskey dropped from 4 yds deep presnap right into the throwing lane of Travis’ first option and disrupted the play resulting in sack. Who gives a shit the semantics of where he started for the purpose of this conversation. The scheme and execution worked to perfection. There are a lot of nuances of football, scheme, substitution decisions you are either naive to, or omitting for the purpose of trying to win an unwinnable argument. It is very rare on this board that EVERYBODY is in agreement on things. The fact that EVERYBODY agrees you’re wrong here should have you re-evaluating either your position, or your ability to support said position rather than continuing to pivot and digging your heels in deeper.
 

PutuporShutup

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I very clearly understand the difference, but every time somebody backs your stupid arguments into a corner you just divert and make the debate about something else. You were ranting about the poor scheme of utilizing DEs in coverage, but when i pointed out the example you provided being acade where the scheme worked to perfection and results in a sack, you changed the conversation to how poor we were when lined up in 3 man fronts which is an entirely different point than when we used D lineman in coverage, since we lined up in plenty of 3 man fronts without dlineman in coverage. They are different things. Foskey dropped from 4 yds deep presnap right into the throwing lane of Travis’ first option and disrupted the play resulting in sack. Who gives a shit the semantics of where he started for the purpose of this conversation. The scheme and execution worked to perfection. There are a lot of nuances of football, scheme, substitution decisions you are either naive to, or omitting for the purpose of trying to win an unwinnable argument. It is very rare on this board that EVERYBODY is in agreement on things. The fact that EVERYBODY agrees you’re wrong here should have you re-evaluating either your position, or your ability to support said position rather than continuing to pivot and digging your heels in deeper.
I never ranted about using DEs in coverage, I ranted about how Freeman utilized them in coverage. More times that not when they were in coverage it was NOT disguised. It wasn't the baltimore ravens where there's 7 people at the LOS and it's hard to tell who is coming or who is dropping. Yes the first play i mentioned ended up being a good play, early in the first half. It took Norvell the first half to figure out freeman's D with the DEs in coverage and 3 down. He then exploited it in the second half, so did USC, so did UNC, so did OK state. Those were the offenses we faced that had a pulse.

Who the heck is everybody?

Everybody agrees that our use of DEs in coverage in and outside of our 3 down defense was smart and worked well? If so, i sure wish I had a shorter memory as a fan.
 

NDohio

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I never ranted about using DEs in coverage, I ranted about how Freeman utilized them in coverage. More times that not when they were in coverage it was NOT disguised. It wasn't the baltimore ravens where there's 7 people at the LOS and it's hard to tell who is coming or who is dropping. Yes the first play i mentioned ended up being a good play, early in the first half. It took Norvell the first half to figure out freeman's D with the DEs in coverage and 3 down. He then exploited it in the second half, so did USC, so did UNC, so did OK state. Those were the offenses we faced that had a pulse.

Who the heck is everybody?

Everybody agrees that our use of DEs in coverage in and outside of our 3 down defense was smart and worked well? If so, i sure wish I had a shorter memory as a fan.
Ultimately it is your overall argument that I completely disagree with. You saying MF doesn't know X's and O's. It is obvious to almost everyone in college football that the man knows defense and you want to act like you are smarter than he. Is MF a great coach today? No, he is not. But, he did impress last year with how he kept the season from falling apart and the overall team improved each week of the season. MF is going into his SECOND season as a head coach. He has gotten, and will continue to get better each week. He proved that by my example above on how well his defense improved during his season as DC.
 

PutuporShutup

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Ultimately it is your overall argument that I completely disagree with. You saying MF doesn't know X's and O's. It is obvious to almost everyone in college football that the man knows defense and you want to act like you are smarter than he. Is MF a great coach today? No, he is not. But, he did impress last year with how he kept the season from falling apart and the overall team improved each week of the season. MF is going into his SECOND season as a head coach. He has gotten, and will continue to get better each week. He proved that by my example above on how well his defense improved during his season as DC.
Couple things. I said I’m not sold on him and X’s and O’s at ND, doesn't mean he doesn't know them. There's a lot of smart coaches that didn't have great schemes, or their schemes didn't fit personnel, etc. I’m sure there’s awesome reasons for freeman’s scheme, I just can’t understand how he thought it would work with our personnel in 21.

In 21 his D was great at the end? UNC and ok state say otherwise. Unc was what game 9 and Ok state game 13. UNC almost had 600 yards and I believe OK St had over 600 yards. The D looked good at times when we played Virginia without a QB, a terrible navy team, a terrible georgia tech team, a terrible stanford team. Expectations aren't to shut out a UNC or OK State, but at times it looked like both of them were playing vs air.

I agree he held the team together last year, but I don't agree we improved a lot throughout the season. We could have tanked, that didn't happen. But we played and lost to stanford in the middle of the year. That was probably the worst team we played last year. We also did not play very well vs USC and south carolina (over half their starters were out) and those were our last 2 games. Yes, we had an epic performance vs Clemson. I think we all realized that clemson wasn't as close to as good as we or anyone really thought.

Again, this is a big season for Freeman @ ND as most agree. It's set up for a really good year and that could springboard freeman and ND under freeman to great things.

I also am really interested to see how the LBs play this season. There are a lot of options, and some with really good talent. For 2 years now our LB play has been average to bad. Freeman and now Golden are LB coaches. So your HC and DC are supposed to be experts coaching LBs but for 2 years their play has probably been the weakness on the team (after QB last year). Expectations should be for pretty significant improvement at the LB position this year.
 
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lcaps20

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Couple things. I said I’m not sold on him and X’s and O’s at ND, doesn't mean he doesn't know them. There's a lot of smart coaches that didn't have great schemes, or their schemes didn't fit personnel, etc. I’m sure there’s awesome reasons for freeman’s scheme, I just can’t understand how he thought it would work with our personnel in 21.

In 21 his D was great at the end? UNC and ok state say otherwise. Unc was what game 9 and Ok state game 13. UNC almost had 600 yards and I believe OK St had over 600 yards. The D looked good at times when we played Virginia without a QB, a terrible navy team, a terrible georgia tech team, a terrible stanford team. Expectations aren't to shut out a UNC or OK State, but at times it looked like both of them were playing vs air.

I agree he held the team together last year, but I don't agree we improved a lot throughout the season. We could have tanked, that didn't happen. But we played and lost to stanford in the middle of the year. That was probably the worst team we played last year. We also did not play very well vs USC and south carolina (over half their starters were out) and those were our last 2 games. Yes, we had an epic performance vs Clemson. I think we all realized that clemson wasn't as close to as good as we or anyone really thought.

Again, this is a big season for Freeman @ ND as most agree. It's set up for a really good year and that could springboard freeman and ND under freeman to great things.

I also am really interested to see how the LBs play this season. There are a lot of options, and some with really good talent. For 2 years now our LB play has been average to bad. Freeman and now Golden are LB coaches. So your HC and DC are supposed to be experts coaching LBs but for 2 years their play has probably been the weakness on the team (after QB last year). Expectations should be for pretty significant improvement at the LB position this year.
You asked for opponent adjusted rankings and Duce Progredi provided them. Until you're going to address those and not just your "eye test" than give it a rest.

Btw including Oklahoma State on here is about as disingenuous as it gets. it's been stated multiple times that Freeman let Elston call the game and there's a reason he wasn't even under consideration for the d-coordinator posisiton.
 
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PutuporShutup

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Will you respond to Veritate Duce Progredi's post above or just give it a rest? You

You asked for opponent adjusted rankings and Duce Progredi provided them. Until you're going to address those and not just your "eye test" than give it a rest.

Btw including Oklahoma State on here is about as disingenuous as it gets. it's been stated multiple times that Freeman let Elston call the game and there's a reason he wasn't even under consideration for the d-coordinator posisiton.
Is that website any good? Haven't used it

It's interesting, curious what against an average opponent means (if teams played the same opponent in general, or is it verse truly an average opponent)? We clearly on defense crushed/dominated average to poor opponents in 21, but did not do well against good offenses.

I think it's truly naive to think Elston had that big of an impact calling the game. We dominated early, elston struggled to adjust, freeman took over calls and didn't do any better. It was freemans D that he developed/built with elston calling plays from the game plan approved by Freeman. It's honestly like blaming Tommy for the offense in big games while he was under Kelly, kelly got more blame rightfully so. IT was Kelly's offense, kelly approved and had a big hand in everything on the offense. Now, last year it was Tommy's offense and why he deserved more criticism. There were a ton of differences with last years offense compared to what was run with tommy under kelly. Some good, a lot bad.
 
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ACamp1900

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It's really early days and I don't know about coach lacking for X's and O's. Just for conversation's sake,... One thing that does stand out a bit in terms of things coach could work on for me is his body language when things go against the team.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Is that website any good? Haven't used it

It's interesting, curious what against an average opponent means (if teams played the same opponent in general, or is it verse truly an average opponent)? We clearly on defense crushed/dominated average to poor opponents in 21, but did not do well against good offenses.

I think it's truly naive to think Elston had that big of an impact calling the game. We dominated early, elston struggled to adjust, freeman took over calls and didn't do any better. It was freemans D that he developed/built with elston calling plays from the game plan approved by Freeman. It's honestly like blaming Tommy for the offense in big games while he was under Kelly, kelly got more blame rightfully so. IT was Kelly's offense, kelly approved and had a big hand in everything on the offense. Now, last year it was Tommy's offense and why he deserved more criticism. There were a ton of differences with last years offense compared to what was run with tommy under kelly. Some good, a lot bad.
You are truly a marvel. Just casually brushing aside actual data to give us more of your views. Yes, both websites are "good" in that they provide data/metrics and explanations so even people like you can understand. But instead of actually contending with it, you ask a simple question and move on.

Go ahead, provide a link that supports what you are saying. I'll happily spend my time reading it to have a more comprehensive picture of the team year over year even though you don't offer the same amount of courtesy in your discourse/back-n-forth exchanges.
 

NDohio

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Is that website any good? Haven't used it

It's interesting, curious what against an average opponent means (if teams played the same opponent in general, or is it verse truly an average opponent)? We clearly on defense crushed/dominated average to poor opponents in 21, but did not do well against good offenses.

I think it's truly naive to think Elston had that big of an impact calling the game. We dominated early, elston struggled to adjust, freeman took over calls and didn't do any better. It was freemans D that he developed/built with elston calling plays from the game plan approved by Freeman. It's honestly like blaming Tommy for the offense in big games while he was under Kelly, kelly got more blame rightfully so. IT was Kelly's offense, kelly approved and had a big hand in everything on the offense. Now, last year it was Tommy's offense and why he deserved more criticism. There were a ton of differences with last years offense compared to what was run with tommy under kelly. Some good, a lot bad.
So the fact that Okie State scored 17 points in the third quarter against the Elston called defense and only six points in the fourth quarter against the Freeman called defense isn't better?
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Nfls top pass rushers rarely drop into coverage, especially on obvious pass rushing situations.

I could get on board if there was any deception. Starting foskey 10 yards off the Los, NEVER worked. Didn’t fool anyone.
The NFL's rookie of the year had three INTs last year......

 

GowerND11

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Freeman was coach of 2022 and responsible for the entire team

Marshall rushed for over 200 yards vs ND, no turnovers, 21 first downs, over 30 minutes TOP - that can NOT happen. Agree though the offense was awful, but the D wasn't much better.

Cal was 4-8, they were a really bad football team. I do agree this game wasn't on the D. This is more a reflection on coaching because Freeman in 2022 was responsible for the entire team

Stanford - Possibly the worst team we played all season. 21 first downs, almost 400 total yards (significantly more than ND). Yes offense was awful, but again, freeman was responsible for the team. I know estime gets flack for the fumble, but this was a game ND on both sides didn't play up to any level of standard.

All 3 of these games were at home!!
You were talking specifically about the defense. Don't move the goalposts. Those games weren't the defense, but offensive ineptitude which I discussed why. But yeah, keep going.
 

PutuporShutup

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The NFL's rookie of the year had three INTs last year......

Thank you for this, i definitely mis represented what i meant by dropping into coverage originally. I was talking a bit more where Freeman would have Foskey/Ademilola as a lb back in coverage pre snap vs a person like Aidan who fakes a rush and drops. With that said, i do remember the lions dropping 11 into coverage on the last play of a half and him getting a pick.


This is the type of play I understand. I don't get having foskey and ademilola as Lbs on 2nd level then putting LBs on the 3rd level in 2 minute. This happened a good bit in 2 minute situations.
 

FDNYIrish1

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Thank you for this, i definitely mis represented what i meant by dropping into coverage originally. I was talking a bit more where Freeman would have Foskey/Ademilola as a lb back in coverage pre snap vs a person like Aidan who fakes a rush and drops. With that said, i do remember the lions dropping 11 into coverage on the last play of a half and him getting a pick.


This is the type of play I understand. I don't get having foskey and ademilola as Lbs on 2nd level then putting LBs on the 3rd level in 2 minute. This happened a good bit in 2 minute situations.
Thank you for this, i definitely mis represented what i meant by dropping into coverage originally. I was talking a bit more where Freeman would have Foskey/Ademilola as a lb back in coverage pre snap vs a person like Aidan who fakes a rush and drops. With that said, i do remember the lions dropping 11 into coverage on the last play of a half and him getting a pick.


This is the type of play I understand. I don't get having foskey and ademilola as Lbs on 2nd level then putting LBs on the 3rd level in 2 minute. This happened a good bit in 2 minute situations.
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