Lawyer/Citation Question

K

koonja

Guest
I received a minor speeding ticket on 12/21/2018. The officer wrote it out by hand and issued it to me. When my wife and I got home, we realized it was my lucky day or so I thought. It was issued to a Paula, who we had never heard of before.

So for 3 weeks I called into the clerk of courts to give them a heads up because I did not want this Paula to get a surprise ticket. The ticket never "showed up" in their system after calling every Friday for 3 weeks, so I stopped trying. I figured they had realized their error, and just discarded it all together.

Now yesterday, 2/19, I receive a ticket in the mail (or reminder to pay my ticket). Citation number is the same, but when I search it online, it now says my name.

Of course, I cannot find my original hand written ticket with Paula's name on it. And when I called the clerk of courts and then the police department, they're saying they issue electronic tickets, and they conveniently don't have a copy of the hand written one for me to bring to a hearing.

If I'm screwed and they can do this, that's fine. But it seems really bizarre that they can just create new tickets, and then when I request a copy of the original, they conveniently do not have a stored carbon copy of the ticket I actually received.

Do I have any options here other than to pony up? Are they legally required to give me the original copy of a ticket they're requesting I pay? They said they'll give me an electronic copy (which is the "new" one).
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
Staff member
Messages
19,134
Reaction score
11,084
Unless you find your original, or you want to pony up for a lawyer to argue with the officer and his supervisor about where the carbon copies are, you're gonna have to pay for the ticket.

BUT

I'm not a lawyer, of which we have a few on the board, I think. They may tell you to go to a court date and ask the officer to produce the original citation, and/or they may tell you that you don't need a lawyer to fight them on their policies.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,676
Reaction score
20,170
The ticket was issued against you and your license number. Just because they wrote Paula on the ticket doesn't absolve you of your violation.
 
K

koonja

Guest
I should add, none of my information, other than the vehicle license plate was on the ticket. It's not like he just had the name wrong - everything was wrong besides the vehicle ID.

The lady at the police department claimed that the electronic one was the original, and that she couldn't find any copy of a hand written one.

Aren't they required to produce a copy when a charged person requests one?
 
Last edited:
K

koonja

Guest
Unless you find your original, or you want to pony up for a lawyer to argue with the officer and his supervisor about where the carbon copies are, you're gonna have to pay for the ticket.

BUT

I'm not a lawyer, of which we have a few on the board, I think. They may tell you to go to a court date and ask the officer to produce the original citation, and/or they may tell you that you don't need a lawyer to fight them on their policies.

But if I had my original, I'm pretty sure I'd get it dissolved.

Which my next question would be then, aren't they required to give a copy upon request?

If they want to pretend they don't have it and lie to say this electronic one "is" the original, that's a whole new can of worms. I don't know if the lady is willing to go that far, but she's playing dumb at minimum.
 

StPaul_Irish

Resident Smart Ass
Messages
2,906
Reaction score
3,119
But if I had my original, I'm pretty sure I'd get it dissolved.

Which my next question would be then, aren't they required to give a copy upon request?

If they want to pretend they don't have it and lie to say this electronic one "is" the original, that's a whole new can of worms. I don't know if the lady is willing to go that far, but she's playing dumb at minimum.

It would not get dissolved, it is an E Ticket entered in by the Officer at the scene. The carbon copy is more or less a "reminder" or "receipt".

They gave you a copy, you are likely on record searching for or calling in about the particular citation number. The responsibility lies with you now.

She might be playing dumb, but then again they get a million calls a day with people "playing dumb". Like I said, and you admitted here, you got pulled over, you were given a ticket. The crime happened and was documented.

That being said, a Crim D lawyer may be able to get the ticket absolved on technicality, but more then likely, 2 things would happen. The state might just drop it as it is a petty misd traffic, or fight you on it and likely win. If they win, you might be stuck with court fees ect, filling fees and other misc fees. If you win, you get a hefty atty fee.

Is the juice worth the squeeze?
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
Staff member
Messages
19,134
Reaction score
11,084
But if I had my original, I'm pretty sure I'd get it dissolved.

Which my next question would be then, aren't they required to give a copy upon request?

If they want to pretend they don't have it and lie to say this electronic one "is" the original, that's a whole new can of worms. I don't know if the lady is willing to go that far, but she's playing dumb at minimum.

That's what I'm saying... if they're playing dumb and/or contending that the original doesn't matter, you're going to need to argue that. You can do it yourself, where you likely wouldn't win while speaking in front of a judge, or you can ask an attorney to help out.

Unless you have a lawyer friend, you're spending money either way.
 

goldandblue

Well-known member
Messages
3,721
Reaction score
419
umm.... Pay the ticket and be done with it or see if you can get a court date to possibly get driving school.
 

Irishize

Well-known member
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
461
Not sure how it works up North but down here, my main goal is to get probation & pay the fine. I always acknowledge my oversight to the officer that pulled me over and sincerely ask him to issue me a warning as I drive for a living and would like to avoid it going on my driving record. If I have a clean record, there’s a chance he/she will let me off lightly. If not, I call the courthouse and ask for probation which leads to paying a fine & not committing another moving violation for a year. Good luck!
 

PANDFAN

Look Down
Messages
16,770
Reaction score
2,278
Not sure how it works up North but down here, my main goal is to get probation & pay the fine. I always acknowledge my oversight to the officer that pulled me over and sincerely ask him to issue me a warning as I drive for a living and would like to avoid it going on my driving record. If I have a clean record, there’s a chance he/she will let me off lightly. If not, I call the courthouse and ask for probation which leads to paying a fine & not committing another moving violation for a year. Good luck!

its just a speeding ticket
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,676
Reaction score
20,170
It would not get dissolved, it is an E Ticket entered in by the Officer at the scene. The carbon copy is more or less a "reminder" or "receipt".

They gave you a copy, you are likely on record searching for or calling in about the particular citation number. The responsibility lies with you now.

She might be playing dumb, but then again they get a million calls a day with people "playing dumb". Like I said, and you admitted here, you got pulled over, you were given a ticket. The crime happened and was documented.

That being said, a Crim D lawyer may be able to get the ticket absolved on technicality, but more then likely, 2 things would happen. The state might just drop it as it is a petty misd traffic, or fight you on it and likely win. If they win, you might be stuck with court fees ect, filling fees and other misc fees. If you win, you get a hefty atty fee.

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

This.............Even if he hires an attorney and wins, the attorney fee is going to be more than the ticket.

Koon, I always knew you were a scallywag and thumbed your nose at the legal system. I bet the real reason you moved to Minneapolis is because the Columbus police were hot on your trail. I wouldn't be surprised if I see a story about you on John Walsh's show.
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
Staff member
Messages
19,134
Reaction score
11,084
Yes, I was guilty of speeding.

By how much?

Around Cincy, they don't give tickets for anything less than 12 over, unless you're being a dick or have a bunch of previous citations.
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
Staff member
Messages
19,134
Reaction score
11,084
Also, I got pulled over on the Indiana Toll Road going to ND/Syracuse back in 2008.

I was doing 94mph. Had I been doing 95, the cop assured me I would have been going to jail for reckless driving.

That was an expensive ticket for a college kid, and definitely not a game I should have been rushing to make lol.

It also taught me my lesson... I don't drive like speed racer on road trips anymore. There are other ways to make good time.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,676
Reaction score
20,170
In Indy you can get away with about 10 over if it's on the highway. On city streets they'll ticket you for 8+ and don't get caught in a school zone. You better be within 2-3 mph of the posted speed or you'll get a ticket.
 

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,022
Reaction score
5,057
In Indy you can get away with about 10 over if it's on the highway. On city streets they'll ticket you for 8+ and don't get caught in a school zone. You better be within 2-3 mph of the posted speed or you'll get a ticket.

I don't think I've ever seen anybody go the speed limit on 465.
 

ACamp1900

Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
Messages
48,965
Reaction score
11,257
umm.... Pay the ticket and be done with it or see if you can get a court date to possibly get driving school.

This... the traffic schools online are jokes now... all in all should set you back a couple hundred and maybe 90 minutes on a Saturday. I'd just do it and be done, for peace of mind, if it were me.
 

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,022
Reaction score
5,057
It's rare, 65 mph is about average which will keep you from getting a ticket. I usually run 68-70 mph.

Yeah, I normally go 65 and most people pass me. Same thing when I drove through Memphis too, it reminded me of 465 back in Indy
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
Messages
11,433
Reaction score
1,006
Not sure how it works up North but down here, my main goal is to get probation & pay the fine. I always acknowledge my oversight to the officer that pulled me over and sincerely ask him to issue me a warning as I drive for a living and would like to avoid it going on my driving record. If I have a clean record, there’s a chance he/she will let me off lightly. If not, I call the courthouse and ask for probation which leads to paying a fine & not committing another moving violation for a year. Good luck!

its just a speeding ticket

You can get probation on a speeding ticket in Indiana and probably other states. I did on one a long time ago just south of Grissom AFB on 31 heading to Indy. Basically you pay a greater fine than normal, but if you don't get another ticket in X amount of time (forget the actual length of time), the ticket you got probation on never posts to your driving record. If you do get another ticket during the probation time, then both the old and the new both hit your record.
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
Messages
11,433
Reaction score
1,006
Yes, I was guilty of speeding.

You are screwed now. They can check your social media where you admitted it. Even if you delete it, it has been quoted in another post (even before mine) and probably archived.

Pay up you scofflaw!

tenor.gif
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

Well-known member
Messages
5,112
Reaction score
2,457
You can get probation on a speeding ticket in Indiana and probably other states. I did on one a long time ago just south of Grissom AFB on 31 heading to Indy. Basically you pay a greater fine than normal, but if you don't get another ticket in X amount of time (forget the actual length of time), the ticket you got probation on never posts to your driving record. If you do get another ticket during the probation time, then both the old and the new both hit your record.

It's not probation, it's pre-trial diversion which keeps it off your record so long as you do not repeat offend within some period of time following the original citation.
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
Messages
11,433
Reaction score
1,006
It's not probation, it's pre-trial diversion which keeps it off your record so long as you do not repeat offend within some period of time following the original citation.

The clerk in Bunker Hill all those years ago referred to it as probation.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

Well-known member
Messages
5,112
Reaction score
2,457
The clerk in Bunker Hill all those years ago referred to it as probation.

Maybe they are technically correct in that there is a suspended sentence hanging over you for non-compliance. But it's also something different from regular probation.
 
K

koonja

Guest
Then pay it. You got caught, own it. Trying to play gotcha with police is lame.

He charged me going 9 MPH over while passing in a 65 on my way home from a Church service with my family.

He played "gotcha".
 

irishnd31

Biggest Idiot On This Site
Messages
6,217
Reaction score
8,122
He charged me going 9 MPH over while passing in a 65 on my way home from a Church service with my family.

He played "gotcha".

Fight the system my man. Things turn ugly, Ill send a carton of Marlboro menthols your way. Like currency in the joint.
Also, take out the biggest goon there. That'll get you respeck.

If all else fails, get a poster of Racquel Welsh and tunnel your ass out of there.


OR


Pay the $100 and end the horse shit.
 
Top