Kid reading The Communist Manifesto in the Notre Dame Commercial last night.

NDPhilly

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Check it out at the 11 second mark.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z8ZW6Gyaehw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I mean what the fuck.
 

Domina Nostra

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"I'm fighting for moral relativism, what are you fighting for?"

Honestly, though, ND is so desperate to be loved by the rest of the elite schools, its kind of pathetic. "Trust us, we're not too, Catholic. You like Marx, we like Aquinas, we're all kind of wacky, right?! LOL!"
 
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IrishLax

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Considering that most colleges heavily push Marxism or anarchism these days... and shame censor conservative viewpoints... I see no issue with a commercial about considering different points of view.

I thought the voiceover for the communist manifesto pretty funny though if intentional.
 

Crazy Balki

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Considering that most colleges heavily push Marxism or anarchism these days... and shame censor conservative viewpoints... I see no issue with a commercial about considering different points of view.

I thought the voiceover for the communist manifesto pretty funny though if intentional.

The problem is that many colleges will publicly push this idea of being "open to different points of view", but really they just mean points of view that aren't right leaning...hell, even center viewpoints are frowned upon in some of these schools.

Much like in Animal Farm, all viewpoints are equal, it's just that some are more equal than others.
 

Domina Nostra

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Considering that most colleges heavily push Marxism or anarchism these days... and shame censor conservative viewpoints... I see no issue with a commercial about considering different points of view.

I thought the voiceover for the communist manifesto pretty funny though if intentional.


If communism is on the table as just part of "the conversation," then why not fascism? Lot's of people are talking about the rise of nationalism these days. Catholics should read Marx, and Aquinas, and D'Annunzio so we can all truly understand each other.

The problem is that many colleges will publicly push this idea of being "open to different points of view", but really they just mean points of view that aren't right leaning...hell, even center viewpoints are frowned upon in some of these schools.

Much like in Animal Farm, all viewpoints are equal, it's just that some are more equal than others.

I agree that this is a very, big and important part of the big problem.

Another part is that some ideas are actually terribly wrong and lead to great injustice and even mass murder. we all treat fascism as one of those ideas. But we have to pretend that Communism is not, because socialists are still very influential.

But the main problem for ND is that a Catholic University, especially the one founded by Fr. Sorin to honor Mary, has the responsibility to be the faithful Catholic voice in that "conversation" by actually educating Catholics on the Catholic worldview, and then articulating and defending it in the public square and academia. ND likes to kind of posture that it is in dialogue with the world, but 90% of the time its just capitulating for the sake of academic respectability. The term "dialogue" simply justifies ND doing all kinds of things that are incompatible with Catholicism, but does not actually achieve much of anything for Catholicism within academia.
 
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Crazy Balki

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"I'm fighting for moral relativism, what are you fighting for?"

Honestly, though, ND is so desperate to be loved by the rest of the elite schools, its kind of pathetic. "Trust us, we're not too, Catholic. You like Marx, we like Aquinas, we're all kind of wacky, right?! LOL!"

To be fair, ND is in a really awkward spot of the country for an "elite" school.

You think of the Ivy League stronghold or Stanford or Northwestern. They're all in areas of the country that are heavily left-leaning. Harvard in Massachusetts, Yale in Connecticut, NW in Chicago, Stanford in the pits of the leftist "utopia" known as the SF bay.

ND meanwhile is an hour + away from left-leaning Chicago and very close to the Michigan border, which leans left too, but is still in Indiana, which is about as red a state as you'll find outside of the Bible Belt.

So it seems they try to appeal hard to the liberal agenda, but also show brief public glimpses of being "open" to new ideas.
 

gkIrish

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I saw this live and thought it was a really strange commercial. I didn't have a problem with the content per se, but I just thought it was a really stupid use of the allotted ad time.
 

Classic Irish

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I know I’ll be in the minority here but I liked the commercial. When I was a sophomore at ND many moons ago, I had to read the Communist Manifesto as part of my Arts and Letters core course. It seems to me that being fed a steady diet of only viewpoints you agree with is simply indoctrination, not education. Exposure to viewpoints that you disagree with or even challenge your own views are essential, in my view, to developing critical thinking skills. Again, I realize I’m in the minority here, but thought I’d add my two cents.
 
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ND88

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You're concerned about the CM, while I couldn't make it past that cornball music.

Freakbass reincarnated as a coffee-shop ghost chick.
 

TDHeysus

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no one should be surprised by this....have you looked at the curriculum in public high schools?

there is a reason why private/charter/online schooling is exploding.
 

stlnd01

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I know I’ll be in the minority here but I liked the commercial. When I was a sophomore at ND many moons ago, I had to read the Communist Manifesto as part of my Arts and Letters core course. It seems to me that being fed a steady diet of only viewpoints you agree with is simply indoctrination, not education. Exposure to viewpoints that you disagree with or even challenge your own views are essential, in my view, to developing critical thinking skills. Again, I realize I’m in the minority here, but thought I’d add my two cents.

Yeah. This. I also was assigned to read the Communist Manifesto in a class at Notre Dame. Also Hobbes and Locke and Machiavellie lots of other things I hadn't read before and may or may not have agreed with. Also the Bible, for that matter.
I thought part of the point of college was to be exposed to different ideas. Honestly from where I sit Notre Dame was a lot better at that than most places, even if that commercial was a little cheesy about it all.
 

no.1IrishFan

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To be honest, but not rude, I feel reactions like yours may be why they felt the need to make the commercial.
 
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GoldenToTheGrave

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To be honest, but not rude, I feel reactions like yours may be why they felt the need to make the commercial.

For real. Regardless of your opinion of it it's clearly one of the most important documents in modern history, it not being covered in an academic setting only serves to promote ignorance.
 

GoldenToTheGrave

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If communism is on the table as just part of "the conversation," then why not fascism? Lot's of people are talking about the rise of nationalism these days.

I didnt personally but I do know plenty of people that read Mein Kamph as part of their school curriculum. Read plenty about Milton Friedman's political philosophy in my economics classes on top of his economic theory.
 

Irish YJ

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I'm perfectly fine with the pure education, but not perfectly fine with the narrative.

Something tells me they spend little to no time talking about the failure of past and current communist and socialist counties, nor the evil that took hold in many of those "experiments".
 

Legacy

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Really a stupid commercial.

As far as the C.M., you cannot discuss economic and political philosophy without an understanding of that and Capital. To evaluate the failure of Communism you must understand its foundation and visions. Reading books like Pasternak's Dr. Zhivago or Solzhenitsyn's Gulag (or Ivan Denisovich) shine light on how the Soviet Union turned against their own as well as the hope that lives in every one of us. Pasternak was friends with Tolstoy and followed his Christian anarchism.

Both had their books rejected for publication by Novy Mir, the Soviet way of censorship vs burning books or restricting their presence in a curriculum. I suppose the rationale is based on behaviorism with the environment, institution or government determining a person's thoughts and values.

Truth outs. Both authors won Nobel Prizes and their works have been read by millions as has the C.M. S. survived being poisoned by ricin by the Soviet gov. In the end, Solzhenitsyn reflects on the failures of Communism in the Soviet Union, saying
"But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: 'Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.'"

It would be near impossible to read his work and that conclusion without having read Marx. I find myself fighting for not seeing that commercial again.
 
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wizards8507

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The commercials have all been trash going back to "An Irish Blessing." They should go back to that one and run it forever.
 

NDVirginia19

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The commercial they played didn't seem Notre Dame, it just seemed like a general civic PSA commercial
 

notredomer23

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He's literally reading it at the point it says "and those opinions who we reject". Dumb commercial but don't think there's really anything to see here.
 

Domina Nostra

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Really a stupid commercial.

As far as the C.M., you cannot discuss economic and political philosophy without an understanding of that and Capital. To evaluate the failure of Communism you must understand its foundation and visions. Reading books like Pasternak's Dr. Zhivago or Solzhenitsyn's Gulag (or Ivan Denisovich) shine light on how the Soviet Union turned against their own as well as the hope that lives in every one of us. Pasternak was friends with Tolstoy and followed his Christian anarchism.

Both had their books rejected for publication by Novy Mir, the Soviet way of censorship vs burning books or restricting their presence in a curriculum. I suppose the rationale is based on behaviorism with the environment, institution or government determining a person's thoughts and values.

Truth outs. Both authors won Nobel Prizes and their works have been read by millions as has the C.M. S. survived being poisoned by ricin by the Soviet gov. In the end, Solzhenitsyn reflects on the failures of Communism in the Soviet Union, saying


It would be near impossible to read his work and that conclusion without having read Marx. I find myself fighting for not seeing that commercial again.


I disagree that you cannot discuss economic and political philosophy without an understanding of the C.M. that and Capital. Neither brings anything essential to either discipline, and neither is foundation for the actual economic or political systems in the Western world.

I am not trying to be cute and I do agree that those texts are very important in the history of thought and that you will not be able to participate in a lot of particular economic and political discussions without understanding those texts.

I also disagree that you cannot understand Solzhenitsyn without having read those texts. You can understand the horrors of the holocaust, without reading MK. You can understand The Jungle or uncle Tom's Cabin without reading Adam Smith. Solzhenitsyn's criticisms, in particular, are ultimately moral and spiritual. They don't require reading that stuff, though it would certainly illuminate in places.

BUT the bigger point is that you are stating the perfectly valid, but IMO totally pretextual, argument that Notre Dame relies upon to justify doing whatever it needs to do to be embraced by elite academia. It has other, similar arguments for why it needs to put on the V---- Monologues, kick certain types of student groups off campus, allow certain types of protests but not others, give awards to politicians who are hostile to fundamental aspects of the common good, etc.

IMO, ND does what it has to do for prestige, insofar as it can without open revolt of alumni and donors. And most alumni and donors are willing to tolerate a whole lot that has nothing to do with the mission of a Catholic University, as Fr. Sorin, JPII, Bl. John Henry Newman, and other luminaries understood it.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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I thought the voiceover for the communist manifesto pretty funny though if intentional.

It almost certainly was intentional that they showed CM as the narrator says "...and those whose opinion we reject." Interpreting it charitably, it's great that they open the ad with a quote from Aquinas. If the goal is to tell people, "You'll read a broad range of things at ND, but analyzed through a Catholic lens and only after receiving a solid foundation in Catholic thought," then I'm all for it.

The problem isn't that message, but that we don't actually do that anymore. In 7 straight years at ND, I was never assigned Aristotle, Augustine or Aquinas; Dante, Chesterton, Waugh, O'Connor, or Tolkein; never asked to read an encyclical or the decrees of an ecumenical council. The Church's perspective on various issues was rarely brought up, and if it was, it was simply presented as one opinion among many. The hiring of faculty is handled almost entirely at the department level, and whether or not a professor is a practicing Catholic means very little compared to things like academic prestige, # of citations in peer reviewed publications, etc. The First Year of Studies program, the "core" curriculum that every ND student ought to receive before graduation, is a pale shadow of what it once was, and is still under constant attack.

There are more Catholics in America than any other single religious denomination, and ND is unarguably the flagship Catholic university in this country. But once you take away that religious character, we're just another small liberal arts school in a cold demographically-declining part of the US scampering for scraps from the Ivy League table. Yet our leadership has been actively undermining that most important part of our identity for decades.

I'd happily cheer for an ad as described in my first paragraph above. Unfortunately, I think the intent was more along the lines of: "Notre Dame, where you'll read the same shit everyone else does."
 

Irish YJ

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It almost certainly was intentional that they showed CM as the narrator says "...and those whose opinion we reject." Interpreting it charitably, it's great that they open the ad with a quote from Aquinas. If the goal is to tell people, "You'll read a broad range of things at ND, but analyzed through a Catholic lens and only after receiving a solid foundation in Catholic thought," then I'm all for it.

The problem isn't that message, but that we don't actually do that anymore. In 7 straight years at ND, I was never assigned Aristotle, Augustine or Aquinas; Dante, Chesterton, Waugh, O'Connor, or Tolkein; never asked to read an encyclical or the decrees of an ecumenical council. The Church's perspective on various issues was rarely brought up, and if it was, it was simply presented as one opinion among many. The hiring of faculty is handled almost entirely at the department level, and whether or not a professor is a practicing Catholic means very little compared to things like academic prestige, # of citations in peer reviewed publications, etc. The First Year of Studies program, the "core" curriculum that every ND student ought to receive before graduation, is a pale shadow of what it once was, and is still under constant attack.

There are more Catholics in America than any other single religious denomination, and ND is unarguably the flagship Catholic university in this country. But once you take away that religious character, we're just another small liberal arts school in a cold demographically-declining part of the US scampering for scraps from the Ivy League table. Yet our leadership has been actively undermining that most important part of our identity for decades.

I'd happily cheer for an ad as described in my first paragraph above. Unfortunately, I think the intent was more along the lines of: "Notre Dame, where you'll read the same shit everyone else does."

Amen
 

wizards8507

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Whiskeyjack

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Seriously? I wish I would have kept the syllabus for my "God and Mammon" class with Mary Hirschfeld.

Professor's Book Intersecting Economics and Faith Awarded International Prize from Vatican

Aquinas and the Market: Toward a Humane Economy

You can still get the best Catholic education available anywhere at ND. Deneen, Gregory, Hirschfeld and many others are truly excellent profs. The problem is that you have to actively seek that sort of education out now within the University; it's way too easy to leave ND without a solid foundation in Catholic thought and an otherwise pretty standard liberal arts undergrad experience.

"Amherst but with a good athletic department" isn't going to keep ND relevant in the 21st century.
 

stlnd01

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The problem isn't that message, but that we don't actually do that anymore. In 7 straight years at ND, I was never assigned Aristotle, Augustine or Aquinas; Dante, Chesterton, Waugh, O'Connor, or Tolkein; never asked to read an encyclical or the decrees of an ecumenical council. The Church's perspective on various issues was rarely brought up, and if it was, it was simply presented as one opinion among many. The hiring of faculty is handled almost entirely at the department level, and whether or not a professor is a practicing Catholic means very little compared to things like academic prestige, # of citations in peer reviewed publications, etc. The First Year of Studies program, the "core" curriculum that every ND student ought to receive before graduation, is a pale shadow of what it once was, and is still under constant attack.
."

What did you study? Because I read most, if not all, of those people at Notre Dame. If not in Theology or Philosophy classes that everyone takes, then in upper-level English or Political Science classes as part of my major (which was Arts & Letters but not especially church-focused, nor PLS). Maybe they don’t make sure every engineering student reads GK Chesterton, but it’s certainly there if you want it.
 

Whiskeyjack

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What did you study? Because I read most, if not all, of those people at Notre Dame. If not in Theology or Philosophy classes that everyone takes, then in upper-level English or Political Science classes as part of my major (which was Arts & Letters but not especially church-focused, nor PLS). Maybe they don’t make sure every engineering student reads GK Chesterton, but it’s certainly there if you want it.

BA in Poli Sci. Then a JD 3 years later.
 
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