Kaepernick, #BLM and ND grad

[ACamp1900]

As to Kap and his lack of experiencing racism, I say so what? I have never personally been on the receiving end of racism (ageism once but not racism) but I have witness minority friends being treated horribly by cops for no reason while the white members in the group were left alone, I have minority friends (mostly Hispanic because I live in AZ) who have had "bad" encounters with cops, etc. People can feel that there is an injustice without having experienced it themselves and some people who have had the experience don't want to talk about it.

It's funny at times what different personal experiences can do... myself and multiple family members, within my lifetime (I'm 36) have been denied educational opportunities otherwise earned, have had business and professional opportunities taken from them... and I have been flat out told in front of a finance counselor that I 'was the wrong color'... all on account of race. Which brings me to my thoughts in the previous post about wealth vs race.... I also grew up in a heavy minority area and have faced tons of direct racism (almost none from black Americans if that even matters, aside from soft racism and jokes anyway).

Anyway: On police, it's funny, I've shared that almost all of my close circle of friends are African American, and they are... and we all grew up together and are still like family... when you grow and mature you all see each other's mistakes... on that point I know for a fact that four close African American friends have been pulled over while drunk or high and not a one of them so much as got arrested, not even arrested... I was pulled over drunk in college, wasn't beaten, that wouldn't be fair, but I was roughed up way worse than warranted (I was totally respectful and listened to every command to the letter, didn't matter) and had my life financially destroyed over it for about three to four years... now that's not a sob story, I got what I deserved as I made that dumb ass choice as a young man and I learned from it... I just find it funny to this day that of all of us that made that mistake, most of us got caught doing it, and the only one that got booked or harassed was the white guy...

Honestly though, i think I'm better off for it because lord knows I learned my lesson and haven't been behind a wheel drunk since... sadly I do know a few of my friends still drive drunk regularly no matter how much I try to influence them otherwise... smh

 

[IrishBroker]

The hypocrisy of leftists is always entertaining.

They're holding him up as some brave citizen who is well within his rights to express himself. Right or wrong, we should all support him b/c he's trying to improve this nation.

As if we're to believe they'd hold the same position if a few facts were changed. For instance, let's assume Kaepernick, rather than being upset about perceived injustices, was upset about federal government usurping the power of the state government and he started wearing a confederate flag shirt to post game interviews and said things like "I'm not against the US or the US military, I'm not a racist, but I'm just not going to sit quietly while the feds take over. We can do better."

He'd be unemployed within hours or the left would be lined up at the Niners practice facility acting like fools to suppress his so called right to express himself.

Oh, for sure.

But let's be clear...in no way is he a hero. Nor is any Multimillionaire who kneels. That's the thing.

Especially these days. I mean, as much as they want to think so, this isn't the civil rights era and they aren't facing the horrific conditions and racism that true heroes like Dr King was.

I have a woman in my office who is from Venezula. She is 25 yrs old and has been kidnapped 3 times by her own government for going door to door to protest their government and treatment of citizens. And despite the kidnappings, she kept going. They only came here 4 months ago when her brother was murdered.

That is a hero.

 

[gkIrish]

I'll repeat what I've said before.

What grievance or issue has he brought attention to that was already not being talked about nonstop since Ferguson?

It's a publicity stunt, pure and simple.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I disagree and I don't even know where to start.



This has been my complaint about Kap, not the protesting. What are the solutions that he is calling for?

Things I would suggest but I am sure that there are others
1. Body cams for all cops. It helps to protect the officer and the citizens
2. More and different training. The average police academy is about 20 weeks. In Arizona to become a cosmetologist you have to undergo 1450 hours before taking the test. Which is about 36 weeks at 40 hours a week. We ask our police to do a very hard job that covers a wide variety of tasks. More training (and maybe changing how we train, though I am not the best person to talk about that) is probably needed. Also I understand that they get more training once they join a department.
3. Maybe look at what we ask them to do? Are we asking them to do too wide of a variety of tasks?
4. Maybe even look at how we screen applicants? Are the people that we are hiring the "right" people? Do they have the mental make-up for the job?
5. Change the environment of police forces. Many times it can be hard for police officers to tell the department who the "bad" officers are (basically "snitches are bad"). There is a culture of protecting each other (which while good in the field) leads to bad officers not being either retrained or removed.

I am sure that there are other ideas (and probably many that are better) but it is what I came up with off the top of my head.

I dont think you can blame the cops. You have to realize a lot of the cops working in areas that these events happen in are used to working day in day out in a pretty hostile and tough environment. It isnt some cupcake Beverly Hills cop flipping out because he received a taste of the hood. Think about it, if you spent every day working in a hostile environment, would you tend to be more trigger happy?

Sure you can say it is their job and it is. But think how it would be if every cop refused to work the minority, higher crime areas. As in flat out no. It would be a drug infested martial law area within 30 days. Sad thing is, most the clowns like Kap have never been anywhere near those areas to be able to identify.

 

[pkt77242]

It's funny at times what different personal experiences can do... myself and multiple family members, within my lifetime (I'm 36) have been denied educational opportunities otherwise earned, have had business and professional opportunities taken from them... and I have been flat out told in front of a finance counselor that I 'was the wrong color'... all on account of race. Which brings me to my thoughts in the previous post about wealth vs race....

Anyway: On police, it's funny, I've shared that almost all of my close circle of friends are African American, and they are... and we all grew up together and are still like family... when you grow and mature you all see each other's mistakes... on that point I know for a fact that four close African American friends have been pulled over while drunk or high and not a one of them so much as got arrested, not even arrested... I was pulled over drunk in college, wasn't beaten, that wouldn't be fair, but I was roughed up way worse than warranted (I was totally respectful and listened to every command to the letter, didn't matter) and had my life financially destroyed over it for about three to four years... now that's not a sob story, I got what I deserved as I made that dumb ass choice as a young man and I learned from it... I just find it funny to this day that of all of us that made that mistake, most of us got caught doing it, and the only one that got booked or harassed was the white guy...

Honestly though, i think I'm better off for it because lord knows I learned my lesson and haven't been behind a wheel drunk since... sadly I do know a few of my friends still drive drunk regularly no matter how much I try to influence them otherwise... smh

I think that there is no doubt that poor people are targeted no matter the race. I think that it is a real problem (just as real as race based targeting).

 

[IrishBroker]

I disagree and I don't even know where to start.

You can disagree all you want. It's the truth.

This has been my complaint about Kap, not the protesting. What are the solutions that he is calling for?

Things I would suggest but I am sure that there are others
1. Body cams for all cops. It helps to protect the officer and the citizens
2. More and different training. The average police academy is about 20 weeks. In Arizona to become a cosmetologist you have to undergo 1450 hours before taking the test. Which is about 36 weeks at 40 hours a week. We ask our police to do a very hard job that covers a wide variety of tasks. More training (and maybe changing how we train, though I am not the best person to talk about that) is probably needed. Also I understand that they get more training once they join a department.
3. Maybe look at what we ask them to do? Are we asking them to do too wide of a variety of tasks?
4. Maybe even look at how we screen applicants? Are the people that we are hiring the "right" people? Do they have the mental make-up for the job?
5. Change the environment of police forces. Many times it can be hard for police officers to tell the department who the "bad" officers are (basically "snitches are bad"). There is a culture of protecting each other (which while good in the field) leads to bad officers not being either retrained or removed.

I am sure that there are other ideas (and probably many that are better) but it is what I came up with off the top of my head.

The cosmetologist comparisons, while true, are a little overdramatic as there are PLENTY of professions that require little training that may not equate to what someone feels is necessary. Also, police are constantly being trained throughout their career. So it's not as if they are let loose on the streets with no follow-up.

I get the point, but again...how much should they train? For the overwhelming majority of officers, it's worked and they don't have issues. So what is the reasoning behind more training if it works for the 90%?

I think the bigger issue is what you pointed out...not the amount of training, but screening those who apply to become officers. I agree with you there. And on body cams.

 

[IrishLax]

I disagree and I don't even know where to start.



This has been my complaint about Kap, not the protesting. What are the solutions that he is calling for?

Things I would suggest but I am sure that there are others
1. Body cams for all cops. It helps to protect the officer and the citizens
2. More and different training. The average police academy is about 20 weeks. In Arizona to become a cosmetologist you have to undergo 1450 hours before taking the test. Which is about 36 weeks at 40 hours a week. We ask our police to do a very hard job that covers a wide variety of tasks. More training (and maybe changing how we train, though I am not the best person to talk about that) is probably needed. Also I understand that they get more training once they join a department.
3. Maybe look at what we ask them to do? Are we asking them to do too wide of a variety of tasks?
4. Maybe even look at how we screen applicants? Are the people that we are hiring the "right" people? Do they have the mental make-up for the job?
5. Change the environment of police forces. Many times it can be hard for police officers to tell the department who the "bad" officers are (basically "snitches are bad"). There is a culture of protecting each other (which while good in the field) leads to bad officers not being either retrained or removed.

I am sure that there are other ideas (and probably many that are better) but it is what I came up with off the top of my head.

To spring board off this:
1. Study Shows Less Violence, Fewer Complaints When Cops Wear Body Cameras | Huffington Post
2. https://upstanders.starbucks.com/episodes/08-the-empathetic-police-academy.html
3. I don't know if this is a problem.
4. Big issue is that police departments are struggling to recruit any applicants right now, much less good ones. There have been some studies though that point to the fact that adding women to the police force does a lot to mitigate "excessive force" and other problems, while not compromising the quality of police work at all. So that's one interesting avenue that could/should be explored, IMO.
5. How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street - The Atlantic

 

[Wingman Ray]

https://gma.yahoo.com/texas-youth-football-team-continue-protesting-anthem-despite-024900841--abc-news-topstories.html

Man talk about sad. These coaches teaching those kids to hate. Sadly, the parents are okay with it.

 

[ACamp1900]

https://gma.yahoo.com/texas-youth-football-team-continue-protesting-anthem-despite-024900841--abc-news-topstories.html

Man talk about sad. These coaches teaching those kids to hate. Sadly, the parents are okay with it.

I mean, you can disagree with their line of thinking, but where is the hate you mentioned?

 

[IrishBroker]

I mean, you can disagree with their line of thinking, but where is the hate you mentioned?

Where I disagree is it sets the tone for how they view the country at an age at which they probably have no idea what is going on, and have likely not encountered anything that they are protesting.

This is driven by the coaches for pub....

 

[Wingman Ray]

I mean, you can disagree with their line of thinking, but where is the hate you mentioned?

Are you going to sit there and tell me that those kids arent being taught to foster thoughts of
an us vs them society by this direction given to them by an adult they trust and look up to? Do you not think things like this plants seeds of resentment in these little kids hearts?

Tell me, what is any difference between that and ISIS raising their kids to hate and kill non Muslims? Hate is hate.

 

[SaltyND24]

Did not read everyone's post, just the first few and I will respond to the OP with this. Just because America is better than the Ukraine in this regard, that does not mean we are without our ills and that we should be ok when it happens...That's a big problem in this whole deal. We can't continue to dismiss an issue, no matter how great or small in may be, just because it's much worse somewhere else. It should bother anybody when an injustice happens and if we truly believe and live by those words, "liberty and justice for all" then we should understand when these types of arguments arise.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Did not read everyone's post, just the first few and I will respond to the OP with this. Just because America is better than the Ukraine in this regard, that does not mean we are without our ills and that we should be ok when it happens...That's a big problem in this whole deal. We can't continue to dismiss an issue, no matter how great or small in may be, just because it's much worse somewhere else. It should bother anybody when an injustice happens and if we truly believe and live by those words, "liberty and justice for all" then we should understand when these types of arguments arise.

And I agree with you. However, you must understand a perfect society will never happen. Cant ever happen short of the coming of Jesus. The pendulum always swings one way more than the other. Never in the even middle. As long as you have what are considered society evils: a dis-apportioned amount of crime proven to be associated with a minority group; a dis-apportioned amount of government welfare associated with a minority group, you will have prejudice as a result.

As as common approach by people countering #BLM often say, fix your house then worry about your neighbors house.

 

[ACamp1900]

Did not read everyone's post, just the first few and I will respond to the OP with this. Just because America is better than the Ukraine in this regard, that does not mean we are without our ills and that we should be ok when it happens...That's a big problem in this whole deal. We can't continue to dismiss an issue, no matter how great or small in may be, just because it's much worse somewhere else. It should bother anybody when an injustice happens and if we truly believe and live by those words, "liberty and justice for all" then we should understand when these types of arguments arise.

And I agree with you. However, you must understand a perfect society will never happen. Cant ever happen short of the coming of Jesus. The pendulum always swings one way more than the other. Never in the even middle. As long as you have what are considered society evils: a dis-apportioned amount of crime proven to be associated with a minority group; a dis-apportioned amount of government welfare associated with a minority group, you will have prejudice as a result.

As as common approach by people countering #BLM often say, fix your house then worry about your neighbors house.

I think there is a middle ground in all this that's often missed, I've tried to touch on it... Anyway, reps to salty.

Just speaking to Kap: I think Kaps personal position is lacking a bit of perspective (maybe not unlike wingman?) and, if I understand his tone and message correctly he is of the, 'there is more bad than good here' camp... I still feel approaching it from, ' we are the greatest country, I love this nation and how we often strive to do better, ... On that note, I'm asking we consider focusing attention as a collective people on this issue. In the mean time ill excerise my amazing rights as an American by kneeling until progress is made in ____ ' would have won just about everyone to his cause... But his tone and words honestly come off more like, 'this country freakin sucks and I'm not gonna waste time honoring its flag'... Especially when you add some of his other statements like his Castro/Cuba gear,... Which came off as intentionally counterproductive or grossly ignorant...

It's a shame someone can't turn the clock back a few weeks and coach him just a bit better, this whole thing could have been way more productive and unifying IMO.

 

[BGIF]

No but I can tell you about my nephew who has a 4.40 out of 4.0 gpa with a really high ACT score (cant remember the number now but it was really high) who has been in honors class since 7th grade and he can only get a partial scholarship to a crap school like Alabama when I would bet anything you want there are quite a few full ride academic scholarships awarded to minorities with much less academic prowess.

Does that warrant an experience in your book?

It's possible but whatever the issue was at UAT it probably wasn't that.

UAB has an acceptance rate of 86%. Alabama is 51%

38% of UAB students are minorities. Only 23% of Alabama's are minorities.

At Alabama it's more likely your nephew lost out to a female as 55% of the student body is female.

Even more likely is he lost out to an out of state student as they represent 63% of the UA student body.

 

[SaltyND24]

And I agree with you. However, you must understand a perfect society will never happen. Cant ever happen short of the coming of Jesus. The pendulum always swings one way more than the other. Never in the even middle. As long as you have what are considered society evils: a dis-apportioned amount of crime proven to be associated with a minority group; a dis-apportioned amount of government welfare associated with a minority group, you will have prejudice as a result.

As as common approach by people countering #BLM often say, fix your house then worry about your neighbors house.

It would be foolish of me to expect a perfect society. I know it'll never happen in my lifetime or even the lifetime of my (yet-to-be born) kids. My angle is that if we just simply accept that fact that we're the best and that 'We'll never reach perfection, so why bother?', we won't work to better ourselves. We should always be open and work towards being better as individuals and, collectively, as a nation. ACamp, if I'm not mistaken, I believe Kap had an interview where he said something along the lines of there are a few bad cops that are ruining the perception of all cops. Essentially we, as a community, and cops should want to weed out those who aren't deserving of the badge they wear and what it is supposed to represent. My best friends in the world work for LA Sheriff, LAPD, SDPD, and Maui PD and are white, black, and hispanic. I know they do their job well and understand that most that serve are great men and women, like they are.

 

[ACamp1900]

Essentially we, as a community, and cops should want to weed out those who aren't deserving of the badge they wear and what it is supposed to represent. My best friends in the world work for LA Sheriff, LAPD, SDPD, and Maui PD and are white, black, and hispanic. I know they do their job well and understand that most that serve are great men and women, like they are.

Totally agree. LAXs point earlier makes this an interesting discussion even putting every other aspect on the shelf....

 

[Irish Insanity]

Watching the local news. A local HS football conference is banning the chant 'U.S.A.' at all of their football games by student section. Claiming it is racist following last week's U.S.A. chant while students were waiving a Trump flag and the 13 star flag.

How fucking pathetic is that.

 

[TP81989]

Are you going to sit there and tell me that those kids arent being taught to foster thoughts of
an us vs them society by this direction given to them by an adult they trust and look up to? Do you not think things like this plants seeds of resentment in these little kids hearts?

Tell me, what is any difference between that and ISIS raising their kids to hate and kill non Muslims? Hate is hate.

Does the fact that these kids are receiving death threats from adults bother you as much as them taking a knee?

I think that qualifies as a real example of hate instead of what you described.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Does the fact that these kids are receiving death threats from adults bother you as much as them taking a knee?

I think that qualifies as a real example of hate instead of what you described.

Both hate. Both unacceptable.

People always want to make excuses and lowball the severity of everything until it directly effects them. People are good with a man in a womans restroom because he says he feels like a woman that day until he is in there with their nine year old kid alone. People say it is okay for these kids to kneel and learn hate for the white person until the kids grow up to do something that effects them or their family. Then it is "oh how can this be happening" whine.

 

[BGIF]

BLM leader robbed by black mugger – calls for more cops

A Houston leader of the Black Lives Matter movement is calling for more cops in his neighborhood after he was robbed at gunpoint Wednesday by a black assailant.

Jerry Ford Jr., a University of Houston graduate student, initially thought the man robbing him outside his apartment was another student.

“The guy was standing right here just seemed like he was hanging out,” Ford told Houston’s KTRK-TV 13. “I told him wassup. He asked me did I have a key to get in. I told him yeah I’m about to go upstairs.”

Ford, who lives only blocks from the university campus, told the station the man pulled a gun on him.

“I reach in right here to open the door, and I turn back around and he has the gun right there in my face,” he said.

The armed man stole Ford’s wallet and his phone and ran away. Another student told the station there have been other robberies in the area. And in August, there were dozens of car break-ins in local apartments. KTRK-TV 13 reported the apartments are home to mostly University of Houston students, “but the university says UH Police do not patrol them.”

However, Ford is demanding a larger police presence in the area.

“It’s becoming a pattern. I hope they would take a bigger stance and put more security over here because you have a lot of people walking back and forth to class,” Ford said.

...

Was the gun real or a BB imitation ... ?

 

[IrishBroker]

BLM leader robbed by black mugger – calls for more cops



Was the gun real or a BB imitation ... ?

That area around UofH is a dumphole.

It's not cops the BLM should be afraid of. Especially in these areas. That's where their entire movement loses me.

 

[ulukinatme]

Watching the local news. A local HS football conference is banning the chant 'U.S.A.' at all of their football games by student section. Claiming it is racist following last week's U.S.A. chant while students were waiving a Trump flag and the 13 star flag.

How fucking pathetic is that.

I would show up to the next game and start a USA chant anyway. Ridiculous.

 

[Wingman Ray]

BLM leader robbed by black mugger – calls for more cops

This is as hypocritical as it can get. All this bitching and ruckus by #BLM and yet you get mugged by a BL. Go figure,

Thats the whole problem. Instead of focusing on cleaning their house, people want YOU to clean THEIR house for them. And until you do, the bitchin will continue non stop.

 

[BGIF]

Elderly Chicago Man Shot While Watering His Lawn Video - ABC News

Attacker was on a bicycle.

 

[BGIF]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-ohio-fatally-wound-suspect-armed-bb-gun-103824478.html

(Reuters) - A white Ohio policeman responding to reports of an armed robbery fatally shot a 13-year-old black boy after he pulled out what appeared to be a weapon that was later determined to be a BB gun, police said on Thursday.

Tyre King was shot multiple times in an alley when he drew what appeared to be a handgun from his waistband during a confrontation with officers on Wednesday in Columbus, the state capital, police said.

...

 

[IrishBroker]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-ohio-fatally-wound-suspect-armed-bb-gun-103824478.html

Tragic. Never want to hear this.

The 19 year old kid should be charged for recruiting this 13 yr old to help him rob someone. Just terrible.

 

[RDU Irish]

Elderly Chicago Man Shot While Watering His Lawn Video - ABC News

Attacker was on a bicycle.

Black kid shoots and robs elderly Latino man in Chicago - wouldn't be news if it wasn't on tape. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson should do something about this.

I mean this pvssy punk really needed a gun for that job? What a POS.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Black kid shoots and robs elderly Latino man in Chicago - wouldn't be news if it wasn't on tape. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson should do something about this.

I mean this pvssy punk really needed a gun for that job? What a POS.

Because only #BLM. Not all lives matter. Just BLM. Havent you figured that out yet?

 

[IrishBroker]

Black kid shoots and robs elderly Latino man in Chicago - wouldn't be news if it wasn't on tape. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson should do something about this.

I mean this pvssy punk really needed a gun for that job? What a POS.

Because only #BLM. Not all lives matter. Just BLM. Havent you figured that out yet?

Actually, its because it doesn't involve a white cop and black victim/suspect.