Kaepernick, #BLM and ND grad

[greyhammer90]

Barring a complete lack of any extracurricular activities, I honestly do not believe this is true.

Can confirm, have friends who went to Bama, smells like bullsh*t.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

I'm no more removed from an oppressed black person than Kap.

It's absurd that Kap, who makes millions and was raised by a white family in the burbs, somehow has more expertise because he's a few shades darker than me.

Kap wouldn't know oppression if it hit him in his mouth.

Perhaps the point is that his interactions with police are different than his white peers. It could be that his upbringing and financial success did little to change how officers target and treat him.

I haven't followed this story, but that's how I would articulate it if I were in his shoes. Even if he hasn't sniffed that narrative, it's a valid argument. I know several successful black attorneys that are pulled over about once a month and often don't end up with a ticket. They were pulled over just because. It's a completely different experience than mine. I know I'd feel very differently if that was a persistent theme in my life. That's just one piece of anecdotal evidence, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[IrishBroker]

I didn't mention anything about how racist white people are so I don't know where you're getting that from. However the lack of understanding or even wanting to understand is one of the biggest problems.

You said that white people aren't in a position to tell black people how great of a country it is, when they don't face the same issues on a day to day basis...


But you believe that Colin Kaepernick does?


And who said anyone wasn't willing to understand? The actual problem is that no matter what is discussed or said, the same response is "you just don't understand" or "you don't want to understand" when you hear something you don't like.

The problem is that most black people in this country do NOT face racism. So they defer to the experiences of those that do. When questioned, they simply use the "my people" approach and can dismiss any white person asking.

Discussing the problems, being honest about them, and accepting others differing viewpoints, is how this gets solved. Help people understand your situation, and be proactive in finding solutions. That's how it gets solved and we grow as a nation.

 

[greyhammer90]

The problem is that most black people in this country do NOT face racism.

- A white guy.

 

[IrishBroker]

Perhaps the point is that his interactions with police are different than his white peers. It could be that his upbringing and financial success did little to change how officers target and treat him.

I haven't followed this story, but that's how I would articulate it if I were in his shoes. Even if he hasn't sniffed that narrative, it's a valid argument. I know several successful black attorneys that are pulled over about once a month and often don't end up with a ticket. They were pulled over just because. It's a completely different experience than mine. I know I'd feel very differently if that was a persistent theme in my life. That's just one piece of anecdotal evidence, so take it for what it's worth.

Understood. But when you attempt to speak on behalf of an entire race, you are now portraying yourself as "one of them"

When we all know that's not the case.

And those attorney's don't make 1/10th of what Kap does. Nor do they have his celebrity.


The real issue is wealth privilege. I have some rich ass brokers I work with that are black and they've never dealt with any of this. Doesn't mean they don't think things should change, but they reject the idea that because they are black, they have to accept the idea of oppression.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

What I want to know is when will professional sports stop oppressing short overweight people, so we too can have equal opportunity to make millions.

 

[bkess8]

I'm sure everyone came into this thread with an open mind eager to learn about the opposing side's perspective.

I can honestly say that this is how I have felt about the whole black oppression - white privilege topic. It does start to become a mute point for me when you think about all the rich people that want to put their 2 cents in and have no idea what is truly going on in the lower classes of society.

 

[adsnorri]

How good of you to enlighten him on how good us white people let him have it in our country. That was special of you to do that.

.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Understood. But when you attempt to speak on behalf of an entire race, you are now portraying yourself as "one of them"

When we all know that's not the case.

And those attorney's don't make 1/10th of what Kap does. Nor do they have his celebrity.


The real issue is wealth privilege. I have some rich ass brokers I work with that are black and they've never dealt with any of this. Doesn't mean they don't think things should change, but they reject the idea that because they are black, they have to accept the idea of oppression.

First, at no point did I speak on behalf of an entire race. I very specifically avoided that by offering a possible articulation of the various messages out there that are being interpreted and dissected ad nauseam. I'm not sure why you even mentioned that.

Second, there is no "real issue." We're dealing with very nuanced social concepts. Wealth privilege doesn't protect all minorities from police harassment and violence. It's not a universal experience, but common enough that people like Kap aren't immune just because they have money. That was my original point. Being raised in the suburbs by a white family and making millions of dollars does not preclude him from experiencing or speaking out against issues between the police and the black community. I felt as though you were going down that path in your previous post.

 

[IrishBroker]

First, at no point did I speak on behalf of an entire race. I very specifically avoided that by offering a possible articulation of the various messages out there that are being interpreted and dissected ad nauseam. I'm not sure why you even mentioned that.

Second, there is no "real issue." We're dealing with very nuanced social concepts. Wealth privilege doesn't protect all minorities from police harassment and violence. It's not a universal experience, but common enough that people like Kap aren't immune just because they have money. That was my original point. Basing raised in the suburbs by a white family and making millions of dollars do not preclude him from experiencing or speaking out against issues between the police and the black community. I felt as though you were going down that path in your previous post.

Huh? I'm talking about Kap and the rest of those who protesting in front of cameras. Not you, personally.

I disagree about Kap and other millionaires. Because a lot of that has to do with your geographic location, like different parts of town, and how you are raised.

Again, there are so many dynamics that contribute to it...rather that just "I'm black/white so I get pulled over less/more"

 

[BeauBenken]

Don't get in a political discussion. Don't get in a political discussion. Don't get...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Don't get in a political discussion. Don't get in a political discussion. Don't get...

 

[IrishLax]

- A white guy.

In today's news: Lil Wayne Says He's Never Experienced Racism | TMZ.com

Truth is, you go looking for "racism" in everything and you're going to find it. Very few 20-something year olds have ever faced overt oppression or racism. That's why we've had to invent terms like "microaggressions" so that when someone says "don't go to the dark side" in a Star Wars reference it can be painted as "racist." Racism used to be being told you can't eat at a restaurant, marry a certain person, use a certain bathroom, go to a certain school, etc. Real systems of oppression. And the effects are still felt today, but they don't exist anymore and haven't for awhile now.

Racism now is anything that offends you; or any bad action by a white person against a non-white person regardless of actual motivations.

So when Kaepernick grandstands about cops murdering black people, or Jesse Williams says "some way cops figure out how to deescalate situations with white people without killing them"... but the most comprehensive studies show that's all just a BS narrative... it's hard to take them seriously.

Racism is evil. Point out the racists and I'll condemn every single one. But I think everyone my age is a little sick and tired of being told how much "racism" there is when we grew up in a world where people were moving past it and not talking about it because it wasn't a problem and then magically over the past 5 years it's become some giant scourge despite nothing actually changing except the creation of social media to give antagonizers a megaphone.

I've lived my entire life in and around the blackest city in America. I went to a public grade school that was majority black. I went to a public high school that was minority white. Not once in my entire life growing up did a single person complain about a racism, nor did I witness a single act of overt racism from anyone that wasn't Asian. We were all taught to treat people as people and no one even talked about race.

Now, kids are being taught in public schools that everything is a racist microaggression, that white people have been and always will be racist oppressors, white people aren't allowed to have opinions on race unless they agree with a minority, and to hate this country. That's just fucking stupid, and it's a product of people with ulterior motives. I thank God every day that my dad is half Latino so that I'm allowed to have a quarter of an opinion and be a quarter not-evil.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Can confirm, have friends who went to Bama, smells like bullsh*t.

How recent? My nephew is in his senior year in HS.

Yes GPA is correct. ACT not sure (I took the SAT) but they said it was really high.

Extra Curricular not sure. I know the kid was in ROTC at one point and had a job coaching soccer after playing soccer for years for club team.

Received tuition only to Bama. Full to UAB. Go figure.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Huh? I'm talking about Kap and the rest of those who protesting in front of cameras. Not you, personally.

I disagree about Kap and other millionaires. Because a lot of that has to do with your geographic location, like different parts of town, and how you are raised.

Again, there are so many dynamics that contribute to it...rather that just "I'm black/white so I get pulled over less/more"

I guess that first part went over my head. I don't know whether he said anything about speaking for the entire black community.

We seem to approach the issue from opposite directions. I assume he's being genuine and authentic instead of trying to find ways to devalue his controversial statements. Again, I haven't followed the story so maybe I missed a major flaw in that assumption. I still think your missing the boat when it comes to wealth, upbringing, location, etc. These do not guarantee protection from harassment and violence at the hands of the police. Suggesting that Kap knows nothing of racism and mistreatment by police because of his wealth, upbringing, locations, etc. is ignorant.

Why is he incapable of experiencing those things? Growing up in the ghetto and joining a gang are not prerequisites for racial profiling. His comfortable life doesn't overcompensate for his experiences of racism (assuming he's made those claims...did he?...I don't know). We can all assume it's to a lesser degree than many other blacks, but you can't categorically write off his opinion due to his wealth and upbringing.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Now, kids are being taught in public schools that everything is a racist microaggression, that white people have been and always will be racist oppressors, white people aren't allowed to have opinions on race unless they agree with a minority, and to hate this country. That's just fucking stupid, and it's a product of people with ulterior motives. I thank God every day that my dad is half Latino so that I'm allowed to have a quarter of an opinion and be a quarter not-evil.

Is this true? Just curious if this is in reference to all public school students or those exposed to certain outspoken educators in the news (like Mizzou and that whole debacle).

 

[IrishLax]

Is this true? Just curious if this is in reference to all public school students or those exposed to certain outspoken educators in the news (like Mizzou and that whole debacle).

A week ago my wife showed me an article from Boston where a public school teacher was teaching like 3rd or 4th graders about "microaggressions" and white racism. I seriously doubt every school teacher is going on a white guilt crusade, but indoctrinating children that the "white male patriarchy" is responsible for all of this country's ills seems a bit warped to me.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

In today's news: Lil Wayne Says He's Never Experienced Racism | TMZ.com

Truth is, you go looking for "racism" in everything and you're going to find it. Very few 20-something year olds have ever faced overt oppression or racism. That's why we've had to invent terms like "microaggressions" so that when someone says "don't go to the dark side" in a Star Wars reference it can be painted as "racist." Racism used to be being told you can't eat at a restaurant, marry a certain person, use a certain bathroom, go to a certain school, etc. Real systems of oppression. And the effects are still felt today, but they don't exist anymore and haven't for awhile now.

Racism now is anything that offends you; or any bad action by a white person against a non-white person regardless of actual motivations.

So when Kaepernick grandstands about cops murdering black people, or Jesse Williams says "some way cops figure out how to deescalate situations with white people without killing them"... but the most comprehensive studies show that's all just a BS narrative... it's hard to take them seriously.

Racism is evil. Point out the racists and I'll condemn every single one. But I think everyone my age is a little sick and tired of being told how much "racism" there is when we grew up in a world where people were moving past it and not talking about it because it wasn't a problem and then magically over the past 5 years it's become some giant scourge despite nothing actually changing except the creation of social media to give antagonizers a megaphone.

I've lived my entire life in and around the blackest city in America. I went to a public grade school that was majority black. I went to a public high school that was minority white. Not once in my entire life growing up did a single person complain about a racism, nor did I witness a single act of overt racism from anyone that wasn't Asian. We were all taught to treat people as people and no one even talked about race.

Now, kids are being taught in public schools that everything is a racist microaggression, that white people have been and always will be racist oppressors, white people aren't allowed to have opinions on race unless they agree with a minority, and to hate this country. That's just fucking stupid, and it's a product of people with ulterior motives. I thank God every day that my dad is half Latino so that I'm allowed to have a quarter of an opinion and be a quarter not-evil.

Awesome post bro. And yeah, as a cop, i have given up on trying to defend not being racist. Supporting studies don't matter or change any opinions...nothing does. Its funny, I was having a conversation recently and the person I was speaking with brought up how my job puts me in a position to be proactive (guns, drugs, gangs..etc) and that I "target" minorities. I brought up this point...even "proactive units" are generally reactive. We go to areas where crimes are reported. Who do you think are reporting crimes in innercities? The white rich people from down the road? No, its people living in the city. Black/latino residents calling and reporting drugs being sold on corners, gun shots, gang graffiti..etc. The residents call and say they want the activity to stop because of the obvious quality of life issues. So, my whole point is that its not cops "targeting" minorities. Minorities call the police on other minorities and police have a duty to respond. If they dont respond the neighborhood starts yelling that cops dont care about them.

 

[TDHeysus]

Don't get in a political discussion. Don't get in a political discussion. Don't get...

I whole-heartedly agree with this^


Concerning the topic of getting into one of these discussions:

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"
-Joshua 1983

 

[IrishBroker]

I guess that first part went over my head. I don't know whether he said anything about speaking for the entire black community.

We seem to approach the issue from opposite directions. I assume he's being genuine and authentic instead of trying to find ways to devalue his controversial statements. Again, I haven't followed the story so maybe I missed a major flaw in that assumption. I still think your missing the boat when it comes to wealth, upbringing, location, etc. These do not guarantee protection from harassment and violence at the hands of the police. Suggesting that Kap knows nothing of racism and mistreatment by police because of his wealth, upbringing, locations, etc. is ignorant.

Why is he incapable of experiencing those things? Growing up in the ghetto and joining a gang are not prerequisites for racial profiling. His comfortable life doesn't overcompensate for his experiences of racism (assuming he's made those claims...did he?...I don't know). We can all assume it's to a lesser degree than many other blacks, but you can't categorically write off his opinion due to his wealth and upbringing.

And being black doesn't make you automatically oppressed or a victim of oppression. So unless Kap has some instance where he's actually been oppressed, he's also ignorant. I don't understand how the two are any different. Kap is not a black man...he's Kap. And unless he has some story about how he was oppressed or a victim of racism, then his leg to stand on isn't any stronger than johnny white guy from the burbs.


And you have a point, we do look at it two different ways, and I respect your opinion on the matter.

 

[Junkhead]

Can you tell me when Kaepernick said he was oppressed?

Close enough.

 

[kmoose]

There is a long and storied history of oppression of black people in this country, as well as lesser oppression of many other minority groups (Chinese, Jews, Latinos, Catholics, etc.). The 55 year old in question has lived through much of that, being born in a time when segregation was only just being legally phased out and still implicitly very present.

Another way to look at it is that, in this man's lifetime, opportunities for Blacks(what he was complaining about) hav gone from separate lunch counters, bathrooms, schools, etc, to a Black man being elected President not once but twice; a black man on the US Supreme Court; one of the richest people in showbiz(Oprah) being a black woman. It would seem that there are opportunities out there for Black people, today, that wouldn't even have been a dream when this man was born. Can we do better? Sure.

 

[Cackalacky]

Just passing this along. A Clemson University Professorr penned this to Dabo Swinney based on his recent remarks on the Cap situation.

Take MLK’s name out your mouth: An open letter to Clemson football coach Dabo Swinney | theGrio

 

[fightingirish26]

Not gonna get fully involved in the discussion, but there are people here saying that racism doesn't exist, and that is ignorant at best.

I'm going back to college Friday, and all three of my roommates are black (I'm white). When my parents found out, they kept suggesting that I ask for a switch, because they said that I was going to feel "uncomfortable." I told them that they were ridiculous, no reason to judge anyone before even meeting them. Last week, my parents had a bunch of their friends over, so I was in a room of about 15 50-60 year old white adults. For some reason, they decided to bring up that I was living with 3 black guys, and nearly all of them immediately suggested that I switch rooms immediately. They were telling stories about friends of friends who lived with black roommates before, and had bad experiences because they lived like "savages." The phrase many of them kept coming back to was "they just don't know any better."

Last year, one of my roommates literally asked me, "So you don't get scared when you see a black guy walking toward you on the street?" He later asked the same of Muslims. I responded that I didn't, and he told me that I was crazy.

So if you're gonna say racism doesn't exist because Jim Crow laws don't exist anymore, etc, then fine, ignore the problem at hand. This country has made great progress, but there are still plenty of people who believe blacks are inherently inferior beings, and are raising their children with these mentalities. Maybe they aren't overtly oppressing black people anymore, but my gut tells me that if it were still legal, they would. As long as some children are being raised with the belief that blacks are inferior by nature, we're gonna keep having the same problems that we're having today in this country. And if you're gonna ask me what the problems are, then you're part of the problem.

 

[mgriff]

When you open IE and start to read this thread

 

[Wild Bill]

Not gonna get fully involved in the discussion, but there are people here saying that racism doesn't exist, and that is ignorant at best.

I'm going back to college Friday, and all three of my roommates are black (I'm white). When my parents found out, they kept suggesting that I ask for a switch, because they said that I was going to feel "uncomfortable." I told them that they were ridiculous, no reason to judge anyone before even meeting them. Last week, my parents had a bunch of their friends over, so I was in a room of about 15 50-60 year old white adults. For some reason, they decided to bring up that I was living with 3 black guys, and nearly all of them immediately suggested that I switch rooms immediately. They were telling stories about friends of friends who lived with black roommates before, and had bad experiences because they lived like "savages." The phrase many of them kept coming back to was "they just don't know any better."

Last year, one of my roommates literally asked me, "So you don't get scared when you see a black guy walking toward you on the street?" He later asked the same of Muslims. I responded that I didn't, and he told me that I was crazy.

So if you're gonna say racism doesn't exist because Jim Crow laws don't exist anymore, etc, then fine, ignore the problem at hand. This country has made great progress, but there are still plenty of people who believe blacks are inherently inferior beings, and are raising their children with these mentalities. Maybe they aren't overtly oppressing black people anymore, but my gut tells me that if it were still legal, they would. As long as some children are being raised with the belief that blacks are inferior by nature, we're gonna keep having the same problems that we're having today in this country. And if you're gonna ask me what the problems are, then you're part of the problem.

Sounds like these old folks may have influenced cal states housing policies.

 

[NDBoiler]

My first thought on this thread - I would never think to enter into this type of conversation with a co-worker. So many things could go wrong, I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to that.

 

[EddytoNow]

What does this even mean? You can't be someone else.

The plain implication is that white people can't have an opinion about race relations.

You can have all the opinions you want, you just can't state them as if they were facts and expect people to accept your opinions as the final word. You grew up with a totally different experience and you have a different perspective. Express your opinions, but don't tell Black Americans how to perceive their life experiences or how to react to the life they have lived on a daily basis. Spend a little more time listening.

 

[pumpdog20]

If you're not a non-Spanish speaking Whexican, then you don't know true racism.

 

[IrishLax]

Not gonna get fully involved in the discussion, but there are people here saying that racism doesn't exist, and that is ignorant at best.

I'm going back to college Friday, and all three of my roommates are black (I'm white). When my parents found out, they kept suggesting that I ask for a switch, because they said that I was going to feel "uncomfortable." I told them that they were ridiculous, no reason to judge anyone before even meeting them. Last week, my parents had a bunch of their friends over, so I was in a room of about 15 50-60 year old white adults. For some reason, they decided to bring up that I was living with 3 black guys, and nearly all of them immediately suggested that I switch rooms immediately. They were telling stories about friends of friends who lived with black roommates before, and had bad experiences because they lived like "savages." The phrase many of them kept coming back to was "they just don't know any better."

Last year, one of my roommates literally asked me, "So you don't get scared when you see a black guy walking toward you on the street?" He later asked the same of Muslims. I responded that I didn't, and he told me that I was crazy.

I legitimately, no sarcasm, feel sorry for you. Your parents and their friends are prejudiced bigots. However, none of what you just listed rises to the modern progressive-accepted definition of racism. They are racists but racism is actually enacting systems of oppression against people of color. Unless your parents actually tried to force you to not live with the black people, or told your black roommates they should find another place to live, it's not racism. Expressing their prejudice to you in a private setting does nothing to enact any sort of oppression on the people of color. And that's basically my point.

In high school, one Korean girl was actually physically beaten by her parents for dating a black kid and forbidden to see him. That's racism.

So if you're gonna say racism doesn't exist because Jim Crow laws don't exist anymore, etc, then fine, ignore the problem at hand. This country has made great progress, but there are still plenty of people who believe blacks are inherently inferior beings, and are raising their children with these mentalities. Maybe they aren't overtly oppressing black people anymore,

Then that isn't racism.

but my gut tells me that if it were still legal, they would. As long as some children are being raised with the belief that blacks are inferior by nature, we're gonna keep having the same problems that we're having today in this country. And if you're gonna ask me what the problems are, then you're part of the problem.

Woof... so all of the problems are because of evil white people teaching their kids to be evil, and if you "ask what the problem is" you're part of the problem. Everything is "white people's fault," because they are oppressors, and if you dare to even question that then prepare to be labeled. Very #college of you. All of the crap Kaepernick, et. al. say about "starting a conversation" is a lie... it's not about starting a conversation, it's about bullying people into one way of thinking.

Look, I've seen my cousin at a fancy restaurant get mistaken for the valet by a rich old white dude because he's Latino. That's a racist action. My dad, who also looks much more Latino than I, has also been racially profiled by police for being a "beaner" driving a $100k Mercedes. That's also a racist action, and it sucks. But there are no systems of oppression that prevent my cousin from chasing his dreams, or that prevented my dad from being successful.

There are racist people in the world, like your parents, and that's a problem. I wish they didn't exist, but they do and always will. Tribalism is as old as time and will never be stomped out. But the systems of oppression are mostly dead, and while black communities absolutely still feel their effects, that's not what Kap or BLM or anyone else is talking about. They're saying "white cops murder black people for being black"... which is a lie and not supported by facts. They say "mass incarceration is racist"... which it is, but ironically 99%+ of the people affected are voting for the person that helped put it in these systems, so obviously they don't care about it enough to let it affect their vote. So please tell me what active system of oppression currently being supported or implemented by white people against black people Kap, BLM, etc. is proposing a discreet solution to because I will enthusiastically support every single initiative they propose to dismantle them (like I do with mandatory minimums, the for profit prison system, and basically all justice system reform).