Kaepernick, #BLM and ND grad

[Wingman Ray]

So I have a guy in my office, 55 years old, black male, graduated ND. He is pretty much my only ally in the sea of Bama fans here at my office.

So we are talking about ND vs MSU, yeah...yeah..yeah...

All of a sudden he asks why is it okay for Trump to say what he says and when a black man kneels during the anthem, all of a sudden it is a problem?

So we talk for a good while and my point is, demonstrate or say what you want but when the guy did it on TV while wearing a SF uniform, it became an issue. If the guy does it on the street or wherever, that is his business. I explained, what happens if you go on tv wearing a company shirt bringing bad publicity to the company...what would happen? He acknowledges.

Then he goes on to talk about this country and not being equal between the races opportunity wise, etc. I explain to him that my wife is from Ukraine and Ive been there. In Ukraine, they walk past you if you are bleeding in the street. That he has no idea how good he has it here in America. His response that it is Americas fault because America advertises equality for all and Ukraine doesnt. That the story is a lie if you are black, etc.

I just dont get it. People who dont go to 2nd world countries have no idea how well they have it. Heck, Ive been to Russia which is 1st world and it is not even close. Especially after nearly 40 years of affirmative action in America?

I know things arent perfect but they will never be. Someone is always going to bitch about something as long as someone listens. What blows my mind is let Putin take over America and all these welfare, what about me and what have you done for me lately goes out the window. In Russia, you starve you starve. In Ukraine, single moms get $25 a month for country provided child services. My wifes grandfather was the head engineer at a engine factory and he made $125/mo retirement.

People have no frickin clue how good they have it. And still bitching. Take away football and 95% of the pro football players are working construction for a living if not worse.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

So I have a guy in my office, 55 years old, black male, graduated ND. He is pretty much my only ally in the sea of Bama fans here at my office.

So we are talking about ND vs MSU, yeah...yeah..yeah...

All of a sudden he asks why is it okay for Trump to say what he says and when a black man kneels during the anthem, all of a sudden it is a problem?

So we talk for a good while and my point is, demonstrate or say what you want but when the guy did it on TV while wearing a SF uniform, it became an issue. If the guy does it on the street or wherever, that is his business. I explained, what happens if you go on tv wearing a company shirt bringing bad publicity to the company...what would happen? He acknowledges.

Then he goes on to talk about this country and not being equal between the races opportunity wise, etc. I explain to him that my wife is from Ukraine and Ive been there. In Ukraine, they walk past you if you are bleeding in the street. That he has no idea how good he has it here in America. His response that it is Americas fault because America advertises equality for all and Ukraine doesnt. That the story is a lie if you are black, etc.

I just dont get it. People who dont go to 2nd world countries have no idea how well they have it. Heck, Ive been to Russia which is 1st world and it is not even close. Especially after nearly 40 years of affirmative action in America?

I know things arent perfect but they will never be. Someone is always going to bitch about something as long as someone listens. What blows my mind is let Putin take over America and all these welfare, what about me and what have you done for me lately goes out the window. In Russia, you starve you starve. In Ukraine, single moms get $25 a month for country provided child services. My wifes grandfather was the head engineer at a engine factory and he made $125/mo retirement.

People have no frickin clue how good they have it. And still bitching. Take away football and 95% of the pro football players are working construction for a living if not worse.

How good of you to enlighten him on how good us white people let him have it in our country. That was special of you to do that.

 

[calvegas04]

How good of you to enlighten him on how good us white people let him have it in our country. That was special of you to do that.

pretty sure he din't say anything like that

 

[NDgradstudent]

There's a reason people whine and moan but never leave. There aren't many better places to live.

Until the black crime rate is equal with the white crime rate, don't expect an equal incarceration rate,
"equal opportunity," etc. White people are not the main reason that the black crime rate is so much higher.

 

[gkIrish]

Is there a reason this is it's own thread?

 

[wizards8507]

Your friend is a 55 year old black man. For him, over the last 55 years, he's exactly correct. He came of age and got to where he is despite a very uneven playing field. I think his mistake is assuming that racial injustice for a black kid today is anything like what it was for him in 1973.

 

[Cali_domer]

pretty sure he din't say anything like that

 

[EddytoNow]

So I have a guy in my office, 55 years old, black male, graduated ND. He is pretty much my only ally in the sea of Bama fans here at my office.

So we are talking about ND vs MSU, yeah...yeah..yeah...

All of a sudden he asks why is it okay for Trump to say what he says and when a black man kneels during the anthem, all of a sudden it is a problem?

So we talk for a good while and my point is, demonstrate or say what you want but when the guy did it on TV while wearing a SF uniform, it became an issue. If the guy does it on the street or wherever, that is his business. I explained, what happens if you go on tv wearing a company shirt bringing bad publicity to the company...what would happen? He acknowledges.

Then he goes on to talk about this country and not being equal between the races opportunity wise, etc. I explain to him that my wife is from Ukraine and Ive been there. In Ukraine, they walk past you if you are bleeding in the street. That he has no idea how good he has it here in America. His response that it is Americas fault because America advertises equality for all and Ukraine doesnt. That the story is a lie if you are black, etc.

I just dont get it. People who dont go to 2nd world countries have no idea how well they have it. Heck, Ive been to Russia which is 1st world and it is not even close. Especially after nearly 40 years of affirmative action in America?

I know things arent perfect but they will never be. Someone is always going to bitch about something as long as someone listens. What blows my mind is let Putin take over America and all these welfare, what about me and what have you done for me lately goes out the window. In Russia, you starve you starve. In Ukraine, single moms get $25 a month for country provided child services. My wifes grandfather was the head engineer at a engine factory and he made $125/mo retirement.

People have no frickin clue how good they have it. And still bitching. Take away football and 95% of the pro football players are working construction for a living if not worse.

Before criticizing any group of people with a different life experience than your own, you should be required to walk a mile in their shoes. It's obvious you don't have a clue what your Black colleague has been trying to tell you.

 

[ACamp1900]

How good of you to enlighten him on how good us white people let him have it in our country. That was special of you to do that.

I'd say everyone has struggles and things to overcome, and it's not always as simple as black struggles+ white privilege= know nothing whites sit down and shut the fvk up...

his buddy had some valuable points... and I also think an important point that is often ignored in this is wingman's notion that our nation has worked, striven and overcome many of these unfortunate challenges that were either given to us as a people or created by our actions... I think it would do wonders for the overall dialogue if it were just recognized and acknowledged how much good has been done on these issues before the inevitable 'we suck at everything' parade starts its march.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Before criticizing any group of people with a different life experience than your own, you should be required to walk a mile in their shoes.

What does this even mean? You can't be someone else.

The plain implication is that white people can't have an opinion about race relations.

 

[Cali_domer]

Oh, oh someone needs a safe space.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm almost positive that Wingman's buddy, even if it did get contentious, wasn't this lazy in his response...

That's racist.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'd say everyone has struggles and things to overcome, and it's not always as simple as black struggles+ white privilege= know nothing whites sit down and shut the fvk up...

his buddy had some valuable points... and I also think an important point that is often ignored in this is wingman's notion that our nation has worked, striven and overcome many of these unfortunate challenges that were either given to us as a people or created by our actions... I think it would do wonders for the overall dialogue if it were just recognized and acknowledged how much good has been done on these issues before the inevitable 'we suck at everything' parade starts its march.

I don't even know why this is here... I was just flipping channels long enough to hear a monologue on the Kap stuff all from the stand point of the 'parade' I mentioned... even going so far to bring up Obama and his 'mistreatment'... then I read this thread and the two just melted together...

whatever... this is why I have been trying to not pay any attention over the last few months...

 

[IrishLax]

There is a long and storied history of oppression of black people in this country, as well as lesser oppression of many other minority groups (Chinese, Jews, Latinos, Catholics, etc.). The 55 year old in question has lived through much of that, being born in a time when segregation was only just being legally phased out and still implicitly very present.

I, personally, understand a lot of your general premise... which is that modern day America does not overtly oppress anyone; most of the narrative is a lie pushed by people with political agendas who profit from division and strife; and black people in the United States have it better than black people in pretty much any other country in the world where they make up a significant percentage of the population when you look at average income, educational opportunity, life expectancy, etc.

But that doesn't mean your colleague hasn't suffered oppression, and it also doesn't mean that things are "good enough" just because they're better than other places.

 

[TP81989]

The Kaepernick protest has just further exposed the racial divide in this country.

White people aren't in a position to tell black people how great this country when they don't experience the same issues black people face on a daily basis.

 

[Wingman Ray]

The Kaepernick protest has just further exposed the racial divide in this country.

White people aren't in a position to tell black people how great this country when they don't experience the same issues black people face on a daily basis.

No but I can tell you about my nephew who has a 4.40 out of 4.0 gpa with a really high ACT score (cant remember the number now but it was really high) who has been in honors class since 7th grade and he can only get a partial scholarship to a crap school like Alabama when I would bet anything you want there are quite a few full ride academic scholarships awarded to minorities with much less academic prowess.

Does that warrant an experience in your book?

 

[Cali_domer]

 

[IrishBroker]

The Kaepernick protest has just further exposed the racial divide in this country.

White people aren't in a position to tell black people how great this country when they don't experience the same issues black people face on a daily basis.

So why ask us to even listen or understand?

Serious question.

If your goal is to point out how racist white people are, and then call them racists and tell them they "don't understand" when they open discussions or provide their own viewpoints....Then why should anyone listen to anyone?

 

[Junkhead]

If the guy was 20 instead of 55, it would be different. A lot has changed since he was a young man. I don't feel very sorry for an "oppressed" millionaire QB however.

 

[Cali_domer]

So why ask us to even listen or understand?

Serious question.

If your goal is to point out how racist white people are, and then call them racists and tell them they "don't understand" when they open discussions or provide their own viewpoints....Then why should anyone listen to anyone?

Only one way talking is the way they want it..

 

[TP81989]

If the guy was 20 instead of 55, it would be different. A lot has changed since he was a young man. I don't feel very sorry for an "oppressed" millionaire QB however.

Can you tell me when Kaepernick said he was oppressed?

 

[IrishLax]

Can you tell me when Kaepernick said he was oppresed?

Do you read his twitter?

 

[IrishBroker]

I'm no more removed from an oppressed black person than Kap.

It's absurd that Kap, who makes millions and was raised by a white family in the burbs, somehow has more expertise because he's a few shades darker than me.

Kap wouldn't know oppression if it hit him in his mouth.

 

[gkIrish]

No but I can tell you about my nephew who has a 4.40 out of 4.0 gpa with a really high ACT score (cant remember the number now but it was really high) who has been in honors class since 7th grade and he can only get a partial scholarship to a crap school like Alabama when I would bet anything you want there are quite a few full ride academic scholarships awarded to minorities with much less academic prowess.

Does that warrant an experience in your book?

Barring a complete lack of any extracurricular activities, I honestly do not believe this is true.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Seriously. I knew people with a 21 on the ACT to get a full ride at Bama.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[IrishLax]

I'm no more removed from an oppressed black person than Kap.

It's absurd that Kap, who makes millions and was raised by a white family in the burbs, somehow has more expertise because he's a few shades darker than me.

Kap wouldn't know oppression if it hit him in his mouth.

Especially given the fact that so few people even realized he was black before this starter... hell, Rodney Harrison ranted about him "not knowing what it's like to be black" on national television because looking at Kap he had no idea he was black.

 

[IrishBroker]

Barring a complete lack of any extracurricular activities, I honestly do not believe this is true.

Seriously. I knew people with a 21 on the ACT to get a full ride at Bama.

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Yeah, I doubt that as well. Not to mention, we don't know the whole story.

Everyone has different circumstances as to why they are where they are. Kid could be a massive screw up. Or just unlucky. Who knows?

 

[NDgradstudent]

The fact is that residential and school segregation are the result of choices people make. This is not North Korea; in a free society the government does not tell people where to live.

Northern cities are the most segregated of all, of course. Rich white liberals such as the alleged comedians Samantha Bee and Jason Jones go to great lengths to keep blacks out of their children's schools. But all these people are voting for Clinton, so it's okay. Or something.

 

[TP81989]

So why ask us to even listen or understand?

Serious question.

If your goal is to point out how racist white people are, and then call them racists and tell them they "don't understand" when they open discussions or provide their own viewpoints....Then why should anyone listen to anyone?

I didn't mention anything about how racist white people are so I don't know where you're getting that from. However the lack of understanding or even wanting to understand is one of the biggest problems.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm sure everyone came into this thread with an open mind eager to learn about the opposing side's perspective.