Johnny Football

[ickythump1225]

The problem with Manziel on the field is that all of his problems are inherent to his game and what makes him "Johnny Football." He's got a gunslinger attitude but instead of having a .44 Magnum he has more of a 9 mil so those risky passes he got away with in college are going to get eaten up in the NFL. His footwork is sloppy, his pocket presence and awareness is next to zero, he can't read defenses very well, and he is a risk taker who has relied on his athleticism (and superior WR corps) to bail him out of tough situations. The margin for error in the NFL is razor thin.

As a Vikings fan I feel eminently qualified to speak about bad quarterbacking because I've seen more than enough of it over the years. Pocket awareness/presence and the mental side of the game can't be taught. You can't teach a guy pocket awareness or the ability to hang tough in the pocket and read the defense, they either have it or they don't. Manziel doesn't have it, Christian Ponder never had it

And the thing is even if they could correct Manziel's footwork, and teach him to hang tough in the pocket he would just be a regular mediocre QB instead of an "exciting" mediocre QB. However it seems as though once a QB gets the running bug in them it is very hard to coach out of them. Look at RGIII and Kaepernick.

 

[philipm31]

Honestly, RGIII and Kaep have tried to stay in the pocket more and it is not working for them.

Of course, they NEED to do that, but it is not something that needs to be coached entirely out of them.

Look at Steve Young, Steve McNair, Fran Tarkenton, Archie Manning.

All were athletic QBs, with 8 (3 for Young; 4 Tarkenton; 1 McNair) SB appearances and oodles of passing and QB rushing records as well.

For an athletic QB, there needs to be balance, and that is likely to be found in the film room, so that you can better anticipate the rush, where WRs will be, how to throw the ball in tight windows and when to take off.

It is a lot of work and takes dedication. Not sure JFF has that in him.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Johnny Manziel party led to Cleveland Browns' punishment of Josh Gordon - ESPN

What a shock. JFF throwing wild parties, not showing up for practice or injury treatment, and just generally being an immature douchebag and constant distraction. Cleveland needs to admit they made a mistake drafting him, this isn't going to work out, and cut their losses.

 

[irishff1014]

This is what happens when you grow up with money and don't need it spoiled brat is what he is.

 

[kmoose]

If you are a Browns fan, you should be outraged. The two cornerstones of the future of your team; Johnny Douchebag and Josh Gordon, are consistently fvcking up in spades. It doesn't matter what you, personally, think about their habits. They are CONSTANTLY bring bad press to the Browns! Is THIS the leadership you want? Have Browns fans become so desperate for wins that they will embrace such piss-poor leadership?

 

[Cackalacky]

Lol. I love everything about all of this.

 

[Bishop2b5]

If you are a Browns fan, you should be outraged. The two cornerstones of the future of your team; Johnny Douchebag and Josh Gordon, are consistently fvcking up in spades. It doesn't matter what you, personally, think about their habits. They are CONSTANTLY bring bad press to the Browns! Is THIS the leadership you want? Have Browns fans become so desperate for wins that they will embrace such piss-poor leadership?

Merril Hoge just went off on JFF on ESPN this morning. He said the NFL isn't a baby-sitting organization and that if you want to be in the NFL, you have to be an adult. Also said it was time for the Browns to cut their losses, admit they made a mistake, fire the people who scouted JFF and said he was mature enough to play at this level, and send Manziel packing. Strong words. Absolutely correct, though. Manziel's an immature, self-centered, spoiled brat who just doesn't get it.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm not agreeing with what happened. But players throw parties all the time. Players are late to meetings and practice and get fined for it often. Hell look at Jonas earlier in the year. But not a person was jumping off the deep end with him. And what he missed was much more important to the big picture than JFF.

 

[kmoose]

I'm not agreeing with what happened. But players throw parties all the time. Players are late to meetings and practice and get fined for it often. Hell look at Jonas earlier in the year. But not a person was jumping off the deep end with him. And what he missed was much more important to the big picture than JFF.

Johnny Douchebag is, currently, the future at QB in Cleveland. Josh Gordon is the future at playmaker. The two of them, if they grow into their roles on the field, will make up the de facto leadership of the team. Jonas Gray is a role player at New England. As to players being late to meetings and practices often? That's true............ but not from the leaders. When was the last time you heard about Brady, Manning, or even Luck being a behavioral issue on his team, to the point where the team had to fine him?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Johnny Douchebag is, currently, the future at QB in Cleveland. Josh Gordon is the future at playmaker. The two of them, if they grow into their roles on the field, will make up the de facto leadership of the team. Jonas Gray is a role player at New England. As to players being late to meetings and practices often? That's true............ but not from the leaders. When was the last time you heard about Brady, Manning, or even Luck being a behavioral issue on his team, to the point where the team had to fine him?

When was the last time JFF was considered the leader of the team. Hell of even the starter. He's on IR............

 

[kmoose]

When was the last time JFF was considered the leader of the team. Hell of even the starter. He's on IR............

He is the future at QB......... you don't think that will make him a de facto leader? How many starting QBs in the NFL aren't looked at as at least some kind of leader?

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not agreeing with what happened. But players throw parties all the time. Players are late to meetings and practice and get fined for it often. Hell look at Jonas earlier in the year. But not a person was jumping off the deep end with him. And what he missed was much more important to the big picture than JFF.

It doesn't happen nearly as often as one might think. I know the Colts don't tolerate it.

 

[philipm31]

When was the last time JFF was considered the leader of the team. Hell of even the starter. He's on IR............

The SECOND Cleveland drafted him, actually.

The fact that you are on IR does not change that. Also, Hoyer had lost every bit of leverage, so this was his team already, if he could stay clean for a couple months. Idiot.

Now he may be off to another team to be a backup....again.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The second you are drafted, as a QB, late in yhe first round, where you aren't the starting QB, in no way slots you in as a leader. And being on IR definitely changes that. Usually when you are, you aren't around the team. It's not easy to lead a team you aren't around.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Johnny needs a good ol' fashioned spanking. Kid's a joke. I rarely root for players to fail, but he's my exception. The kid is a grade A d-bag.

 

[Irish#1]

The SECOND Cleveland drafted him, actually.

The fact that you are on IR does not change that. Also, Hoyer had lost every bit of leverage, so this was his team already, if he could stay clean for a couple months. Idiot.

Now he may be off to another team to be a backup....again.

Disagree. As a matter of fact given Manziel's history, I would guess the older players and veterans on Cleveland were under the mindset that Manziel would have to prove to them that he is a leader before they ever consider him one.

I remember when Luck joined the Colts. He said he wasn't the leader of the team until he earned the respect of his teammates.

 

[kmoose]

The second you are drafted, as a QB, late in yhe first round, where you aren't the starting QB, in no way slots you in as a leader. And being on IR definitely changes that. Usually when you are, you aren't around the team. It's not easy to lead a team you aren't around.

He's not a team leader CURRENTLY, and no one said that he is. He IS, however, slated to be one of the primary team leaders(starting QB) of the future. He still acts like he is in High School, with no indication that he "gets it". If Browns fans don't speak up and demand better behavior from him, then he is going to end up the starting QB who stays out and parties, while the successful guys are studying film. And Cleveland's record will reflect that.

 

[philipm31]

Disagree. As a matter of fact given Manziel's history, I would guess the older players and veterans on Cleveland were under the mindset that Manziel would have to prove to them that he is a leader before they ever consider him one.

I remember when Luck joined the Colts. He said he wasn't the leader of the team until he earned the respect of his teammates.

The FO absolutely drafted him thinking he would be their leader.

As much as I loathe Brady, the man has been a professional since the SECOND he was drafted, in the SIXTH round, only meant to carry a clipboard. Instead, he went to every meeting ON TIME, prepared like he was going to start and when he was called into the game to replace an injured Bledsoe, he was able to perform admirably.

And he has been a team leader since the second he was drafted because he understood the role and its responsbility. JFF does not grasp that, AT ALL.

 

[Irish#1]

The FO absolutely drafted him thinking he would be their leader.

As much as I loathe Brady, the man has been a professional since the SECOND he was drafted, in the SIXTH round, only meant to carry a clipboard. Instead, he went to every meeting ON TIME, prepared like he was going to start and when he was called into the game to replace an injured Bledsoe, he was able to perform admirably.

And he has been a team leader since the second he was drafted because he understood the role and its responsbility. JFF does not grasp that, AT ALL.

I won't belabor the point, but I think Cleveland drafted him to be their QB knowing he had maturity and leadership issues believing they could fix once he joined the team. Brady is exactly what Manziel needs to be, but Brady wasn't the leader once he got drafted. He had to do all the right things you already mentioned before he got the starting QB job. Once he had it, he became the leader because he had already done all the behind the scenes things needed to prove to your teammates you are a leader.

Another example recalling an interview Manning did......When Manning was a rookie, he went into the huddle for the first time in a preseason game. He started with "Ok guys let's go get 'em" or something to that effect. He mentions the first words out of an offensive lineman's mouth was, "Shut up and just call the play rook".

Even if the front office says your the leader, teammates won't accept you as a leader until you've proven yourself regardless of who you are.

 

[kmoose]

I won't belabor the point, but I think Cleveland drafted him to be their QB knowing he had maturity and leadership issues believing they could fix once he joined the team. Brady is exactly what Manziel needs to be, but Brady wasn't the leader once he got drafted. He had to do all the right things you already mentioned before he got the starting QB job. Once he had it, he became the leader because he had already done all the behind the scenes things needed to prove to your teammates you are a leader.

Another example recalling an interview Manning did......When Manning was a rookie, he went into the huddle for the first time in a preseason game. He started with "Ok guys let's go get 'em" or something to that effect. He mentions the first words out of an offensive lineman's mouth was, "Shut up and just call the play rook".

Even if the front office says your the leader, teammates won't accept you as a leader until you've proven yourself regardless of who you are.

Obviously Manziel will never be accepted as a leader, based on his projected behavioral arc. And that is just the point!! The guy was drafted to be the future at QB for the Cleveland Browns. On any team in the NFL, the QB position is a leadership position, meaning it is one of those positions where leadership is a critical "intangible" quality. If you are a Joe Montana, John Elway, Bret Favre type producer, then you can get away with being a little quirky, but not a flat out bad example. Manziel is a flat out bad example, and he is nowhere near the type of player who can produce enough (in the NFL) to get away with that. So, if I were a Cleveland fan, I would be plenty pissed off this kid is not getting it, and that management is at least tacitly supporting his poor behavior.

Johnny Douchebag is a potential Ryan Leaf-esque train wreck, with Geno Smith-esque talent.

 

[ulukinatme]

Classic Browns, going for Manziel and now reaping the rewards of that venture. It makes me glad I've mostly given up on watching NFL games, but growing up near Cleveland can do that to you.

 

[philipm31]

I won't belabor the point, but I think Cleveland drafted him to be their QB knowing he had maturity and leadership issues believing they could fix once he joined the team. Brady is exactly what Manziel needs to be, but Brady wasn't the leader once he got drafted. He had to do all the right things you already mentioned before he got the starting QB job. Once he had it, he became the leader because he had already done all the behind the scenes things needed to prove to your teammates you are a leader.

Another example recalling an interview Manning did......When Manning was a rookie, he went into the huddle for the first time in a preseason game. He started with "Ok guys let's go get 'em" or something to that effect. He mentions the first words out of an offensive lineman's mouth was, "Shut up and just call the play rook".

Even if the front office says your the leader, teammates won't accept you as a leader until you've proven yourself regardless of who you are.

kmoose gets it. The QB, no matter where he is drafted, is automatically considered a leadership position. End of story.

And I said the FO drafted him because he WOULD BE their leader....and not to put too fine a point on it, but Hoyer was already done in CLE before this. He had no leverage, no backing in the locker room. The team was JFF's for the taking and he blew it.

 

[Irish#1]

Obviously Manziel will never be accepted as a leader, based on his projected behavioral arc. And that is just the point!! The guy was drafted to be the future at QB for the Cleveland Browns. On any team in the NFL, the QB position is a leadership position, meaning it is one of those positions where leadership is a critical "intangible" quality. If you are a Joe Montana, John Elway, Bret Favre type producer, then you can get away with being a little quirky, but not a flat out bad example. Manziel is a flat out bad example, and he is nowhere near the type of player who can produce enough (in the NFL) to get away with that. So, if I were a Cleveland fan, I would be plenty pissed off this kid is not getting it, and that management is at least tacitly supporting his poor behavior.

Johnny Douchebag is a potential Ryan Leaf-esque train wreck, with Geno Smith-esque talent.

kmoose gets it. The QB, no matter where he is drafted, is automatically considered a leadership position. End of story.

And I said the FO drafted him because he WOULD BE their leader....and not to put too fine a point on it, but Hoyer was already done in CLE before this. He had no leverage, no backing in the locker room. The team was JFF's for the taking and he blew it.

Oh I get it and KMoose is right. The QB is always expected to be the leader of the team. My point which seems to be missed is that just because you're drafted as a QB doesn't mean you'll automatically be looked at as the leader by teammates. They expect you to get there, but you have to earn it with your actions and play and as you said Manziel blew it. End of story.

 

[kmoose]

Oh I get it and KMoose is right. The QB is always expected to be the leader of the team. My point which seems to be missed is that just because you're drafted as a QB doesn't mean you'll automatically be looked at as the leader by teammates. They expect you to get there, but you have to earn it with your actions and play and as you said Manziel blew it. End of story.

And Cleveland fans should be very angry with the management of the team, who have bungled this right from the start. Manziel himself said recently that he didn't really do much work to get better until he was named the starter. Why the hell not? That is one thing that EVERYONE who has ever played with Brady or Manning has said about them: From Day 1, those guys were gym and film room junkies. They dedicated themselves to their craft, long before anything was given to them. Management had to have known that Manziel was only putting in the minimum amount of work. And yet they didn't properly motivate him to work hard. Not only that, but they then rewarded him by naming him the starter before he had earned squat.

 

[GATTACA!]

And Cleveland fans should be very angry with the management of the team, who have bungled this right from the start. Manziel himself said recently that he didn't really do much work to get better until he was named the starter. Why the hell not? That is one thing that EVERYONE who has ever played with Brady or Manning has said about them: From Day 1, those guys were gym and film room junkies. They dedicated themselves to their craft, long before anything was given to them. Management had to have known that Manziel was only putting in the minimum amount of work. And yet they didn't properly motivate him to work hard. Not only that, but they then rewarded him by naming him the starter before he had earned squat.

How could you motivate him other than not playing him? Clearly the front office and coaching staff knew he wasn't ready and thats why they where so reluctant to put him in, but since the fans/media didn't know that eventually the public pressure became too much and their hand was forced. But other than not playing Manziel idk what you can really do to motivate him to put in "100%"

 

[Irish#1]

And Cleveland fans should be very angry with the management of the team, who have bungled this right from the start. Manziel himself said recently that he didn't really do much work to get better until he was named the starter. Why the hell not? That is one thing that EVERYONE who has ever played with Brady or Manning has said about them: From Day 1, those guys were gym and film room junkies. They dedicated themselves to their craft, long before anything was given to them. Management had to have known that Manziel was only putting in the minimum amount of work. And yet they didn't properly motivate him to work hard. Not only that, but they then rewarded him by naming him the starter before he had earned squat.

If I were a Cleveland fan, I would have been upset when they drafted him. He has shown no respect for anyone or the game. When he blew off dinner with the Manning's at the Manning passing academy then missed practice the next day or was he late?, that told me he has no respect for the game and would continue with his partying ways.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Enjoy, Browns fans.

Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel struggled with commitment, preparation, sources said - ESPN

 

[ACamp1900]

Enjoy, Browns fans.

Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel struggled with commitment, preparation, sources said - ESPN

Today Jimmy Haslam said the Browns top priority in the offseason was finding a quarterback... Smh. THEY HAD ONE,... With Teddy Bridgewater, and passed on him for this clown... Now Bridgewater looks like a future superstar and Manziel is a year away from being out of the league... Things I could have told them LAST YEAR.

Freakin Browns.

 

[dang227]

Today Jimmy Haslam said the Browns top priority in the offseason was finding a quarterback... Smh. THEY HAD ONE,... With Teddy Bridgewater, and passed on him for this clown... Now Bridgewater looks like a future superstar and Manziel is a year away from being out of the league... Things I could have told them LAST YEAR.



Freakin Browns.

I could not agree more. Really thought they were going to draft Teddy. Huge mistake from the Browns.

 

[Booslum31]

Today Jimmy Haslam said the Browns top priority in the offseason was finding a quarterback... Smh. THEY HAD ONE,... With Teddy Bridgewater, and passed on him for this clown... Now Bridgewater looks like a future superstar and Manziel is a year away from being out of the league... Things I could have told them LAST YEAR.

Freakin Browns.

Spot on ACamp. SOOO frustrating.