January 1 | Oklahoma State | Fiesta Bowl

[Trait Expectations]

Wow, I didn't realize OSU lost their d coordinator effective immediately. That's great news for the bowl game

 

[IrishSteelhead]

WTF do people expect?

Kyle Hamilton
-hasn't played meaningful football in about two months
-is going to be a top 15 pick
-lost his head coach
-team is in bowl game that isnt significant enough to risk livelihood and limb playing

Kyren Williams choice to sit out is far more puzzling IMO, but thats the way it goes.

*My opinion will be more pissy about the situation if we see Olave and Wilson and company play in the Rose Bowl, but I doubt we will*


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[Irishbounty28]

Does anyone think this is good news for the other draft eligibles like Patterson and Foskey? To my knowledge they haven’t declared or stated they will sit out the bowl game. I would definitely take both back for 22.

 

[T-Boone]

Maybe draftable players should just stop playing their final mandatory year of college.

Why take a chance?

the stated goal each year is to win the NC. Ones that is not achievable anymore there is a meaninglessness to playing except to prep for the next season.

 

[Sea Turtle]

the stated goal each year is to win the NC. Ones that is not achievable anymore there is a meaninglessness to playing except to prep for the next season.

The Fiesta Bowl isn't meaningless. Neither is this year's Rose Bowl We haven't won a New Years 6 bowl game since 1994.

Should every draftable player stop playing once their team loses two games? Because that's where this is going.

Having said that, we will have to win the Fiesta as a team. I don't like Michigan at all. But that Bo Shembechler speech is one of the best I've ever seen. No player is more important than the team. No coach is more important than the team. You'll never play for a team again. Only a contract. The Team The Team The Team

 

[NorthDakota]

I have no problem with Hamilton staying out. Its a shame his season got derailed but he's risking tens of millions. How much did Jaylon playing the OSU game cost him? We'll never know because it completely changed his career.

Karen...idk what he's thinking. He's not gonna be a high pick.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

The Fiesta Bowl isn't meaningless. Neither is this year's Rose Bowl We haven't won a New Years 6 bowl game since 1994.

Should every draftable player stop playing once their team loses two games? Because that's where this is going.

Having said that, we will have to win the Fiesta as a team. I don't like Michigan at all. But that Bo Shembechler speech is one of the best I've ever seen. No player is more important than the team. No coach is more important than the team. You'll never play for a team again. Only a contract. The Team The Team The Team

Nobody cares about NY6 bowl games anymore other than some fans who see it as some antiquated measure of success and perception. Its playoffs or bust...every single year. The players will go out and play hard because they have pride and work hard for it all year long, but its pretty meaningless in the big picture other than the extra practices.

 

[NorthDakota]

Nobody cares about NY6 bowl games anymore other than some fans who see it as some antiquated measure of success and perception. Its playoffs or bust...every single year. The players will go out and play hard because they have pride and work hard for it all year long, but its pretty meaningless in the big picture other than the extra practices.

I disagree albeit slightly.

Its good to end a year on a high note. Particularly for ND, haven't won a prominent bowl game since I was a tyke. Good for recruiting to win, good for the team to win a big neutral site game. Etc

 

[stpeteirish]

Just looked on the link from the ND ticket office to buy tickets to the Fiesta Bowl. Looks like the ND portion is almost sold out. One section, 4 tickets is all I saw.

Guess some people think this game is important.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

Nobody cares about NY6 bowl games anymore other than some fans who see it as some antiquated measure of success and perception. Its playoffs or bust...every single year. The players will go out and play hard because they have pride and work hard for it all year long, but its pretty meaningless in the big picture other than the extra practices.

I wish I could vehemently disagree. But alas I am afraid your are correct.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Just looked on the link from the ND ticket office to buy tickets to the Fiesta Bowl. Looks like the ND portion is almost sold out. One section, 4 tickets is all I saw.

Guess some people think this game is important.

People going to a game because they love Notre Dame football and want to catch another game before an 8 month hiatus, why wouldnt they?? The same reason people buy tickets during the season and come in from all around the country to catch a Bowling Green game, it's ND Football.

The game is obviously "important"...they all are and the goal is to win them all, but consider this:
Most of these kids we are recruiting aren't even old enough to know a time when a NY6 bowl game REALLY meant anything.

Now, it just means you get to play one of the better of the other teams who didnt make the playoffs. Winning is always important for the perception of the program, and to take momentum into the offseason, but NY6 bowls are now like getting to sit at the head of the table...at the kid's table.

 

[Trait Expectations]

People going to a game because they love Notre Dame football and want to catch another game before an 8 month hiatus, why wouldnt they?? The same reason people buy tickets during the season and come in from all around the country to catch a Bowling Green game, it's ND Football.

The game is obviously "important"...they all are and the goal is to win them all, but consider this:
Most of these kids we are recruiting aren't even old enough to know a time when a NY6 bowl game REALLY meant anything.

Now, it just means you get to play one of the better of the other teams who didnt make the playoffs. Winning is always important for the perception of the program, and to take momentum into the offseason, but NY6 bowls are now like getting to sit at the head of the table...at the kid's table.

I disagree with most of this. But I look forward to a playoff expansion because I want each of the big bowl games to mean something If you finish in the top 8-12, your season should still count. If not, then I understand it being just another game that allows some additional practice time and swag for the guys.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Kyren's draft stock wasn't going to change no matter what happened in this game.

His stock will depend heavily on the combine, because the one hang-up on him is his speed. He already has extensive film showing what he can do. Doing it again in a bowl game isn't changing anything.

The reality is that this game is meaningless in the scope of winning a national title. That's the goal every year, and it can't happen.

In regards to this game, Kyren has nothing to gain and everything to lose if he ends up getting hurt.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I disagree with most of this. But I look forward to a playoff expansion because I want each of the big bowl games to mean something If you finish in the top 8-12, your season should still count. If not, then I understand it being just another game that allows some additional practice time and swag for the guys.

You don’t have to agree with it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. If ND were playing Miss St in some non NY6 game do you not think tickets would sell? We brag constantly on this site about how ND is different, its a big draw, nationwide fanbase, yadda yadda yadda. That doesnt apply only when it fits the argument.

if you have some kid who was in 5th grade the last a NY6 game actually meant anything in terms of deciding who wins a natty, and all they have ever known since football became a competitive thing for them was that the best teams played in the playoffs, do you think they are really viewing a NY6 game win in the same light as the 40+ yr old fan who is using that as an atiquated measure of success?

I would even argue that if the season ended today and we could tout that we finished number 5, it would have the same significance. I have a hard time believing that when deciding if they should come to ND or not kids are thinking “yo, Notre Dame won the Fiesta Bowl, they legit!!”?

We would be better off losing by 30 in the playoff again. At least at that point the coaches can say “we were there”. Other than that, its just better to be 12-1 and finish number 4 or 5 then it is to be 11-2 and number 9. These kids dont care what bowl game you won if its not a playoff game. In todays culture, a lot of these kids likely dont even understand that once upon a time, the NY6 bowls were a huge part of deciding who was the national champion.

 

[Wild Bill]

You don’t have to agree with it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. If ND were playing Miss St in some non NY6 game do you not think tickets would sell? We brag constantly on this site about how ND is different, its a big draw, nationwide fanbase, yadda yadda yadda. That doesnt apply only when it fits the argument.

if you have some kid who was in 5th grade the last a NY6 game actually meant anything in terms of deciding who wins a natty, and all they have ever known since football became a competitive thing for them was that the best teams played in the playoffs, do you think they are really viewing a NY6 game win in the same light as the 40+ yr old fan who is using that as an atiquated measure of success?

I would even argue that if the season ended today and we could tout that we finished number 5, it would have the same significance. I have a hard time believing that when deciding if they should come to ND or not kids are thinking “yo, Notre Dame won the Fiesta Bowl, they legit!!”?

We would be better off losing by 30 in the playoff again. At least at that point the coaches can say “we were there”. Other than that, its just better to be 12-1 and finish number 4 or 5 then it is to be 11-2 and number 9. These kids dont care what bowl game you won if its not a playoff game. In todays culture, a lot of these kids likely dont even understand that once upon a time, the NY6 bowls were a huge a part of deciding who was the national champion.

A big bowl was a big bowl even if it had zero title implications. I'm not sure how the playoffs changed that.

You sell a recruit by telling them you just won a huge bowl and finished 5th but a player like him will get you over the top. Let's not overthink this.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

A big bowl was a big bowl even if it had zero title implications. I'm not sure how the playoffs changed that.

You sell a recruit by telling them you just won a huge bowl and finished 5th but a player like him will get you over the top. Let's not overthink this.

I’d be willing to bet that most who share this point of view are over 35.

if this were true, how many people without looking it up can name the winner of all the NY6 bowls for the last two years…not even who played, just who won. I would bet most came name all 4 playoff teams from the past 3 years, both those who won and lost.

Don’t get me wrong, winning always matters and finishing this season 12-1 would be huge. My point is those obsessed with getting this NY6/ big bowl monkey off their back are living in the past. The playoff losses are the only monkey we need off our back, and winning Fiesta Bowl just to be able to say we won a “big” bowl game doesnt change that.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

A big bowl was a big bowl even if it had zero title implications. I'm not sure how the playoffs changed that.

You sell a recruit by telling them you just won a huge bowl and finished 5th but a player like him will get you over the top. Let's not overthink this.

Right. I get the instinct to defend Kyren, but this "nothing but the playoffs matters" thing is a huge cope. The Rose, Sugar and Fiesta bowls are big because of the history, the date, the number of eyeballs that tune in to watch, the highly ranked teams facing off against each other, etc.

It matters.

 

[Wild Bill]

I’d be willing to bet that most who share this point of view are over 35.

if this were true, how many people without looking it up can name the winner of all the NY6 bowls for the last two years…not even who played, just who won. I would bet most came name all 4 playoff teams from the past 3 years, both those who won and lost.

Don’t get me wrong, winning always matters and finishing this season 12-1 would be huge. My point is those obsessed with getting this NY6/ big bowl monkey off their back are living in the past. The playoff losses are the only monkey we need off our back, and winning Fiesta Bowl just to be able to say we won a “big” bowl game doesnt change that.

With age comes wisdom.

​​​​​​

 

[Trait Expectations]

You don’t have to agree with it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. If ND were playing Miss St in some non NY6 game do you not think tickets would sell? We brag constantly on this site about how ND is different, its a big draw, nationwide fanbase, yadda yadda yadda. That doesnt apply only when it fits the argument.

if you have some kid who was in 5th grade the last a NY6 game actually meant anything in terms of deciding who wins a natty, and all they have ever known since football became a competitive thing for them was that the best teams played in the playoffs, do you think they are really viewing a NY6 game win in the same light as the 40+ yr old fan who is using that as an atiquated measure of success?

I would even argue that if the season ended today and we could tout that we finished number 5, it would have the same significance. I have a hard time believing that when deciding if they should come to ND or not kids are thinking “yo, Notre Dame won the Fiesta Bowl, they legit!!”?

We would be better off losing by 30 in the playoff again. At least at that point the coaches can say “we were there”. Other than that, its just better to be 12-1 and finish number 4 or 5 then it is to be 11-2 and number 9. These kids dont care what bowl game you won if its not a playoff game. In todays culture, a lot of these kids likely dont even understand that once upon a time, the NY6 bowls were a huge part of deciding who was the national champion.

TLDR.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Right. I get the instinct to defend Kyren, but this "nothing but the playoffs matters" thing is a huge cope. The Rose, Sugar and Fiesta bowls are big because of the history, the date, the number of eyeballs that tune in to watch, the highly ranked teams facing off against each other, etc.

It matters.

It 100% matters. Its huge in fact, but I just dont agree that recruits are going to give a rats butt about the significance of ND breaking their NY6 bowl drought going back to all the chicken little arguments that ND would be better off winning a NY6 bowl than losing by 20+ in the playoffs again. if youre not in the playoffs then the best you can do is win the next game in front of you, and it definitely helps getting to end the season with a win over a top 10 team.

 

[ACamp1900]

If NY6 games don’t matter now wait until none of the conference title games, late season rivalry games and more ‘don’t matter’ after we expand this stupid playoff,…

 

[IrishLax]

EDit: nvm mistread

 

[Me2SouthBend]

As far as elite players skipping bowl games goes, we’d better get used to it. Next year you can book Mayer skipping the bowl game and 2 yrs from now (when we should be contending for a Natty) it’s going to be painful to have Mayor Blake and Big Joe Alt not playing. Missing AA LT and RT’s will be crippling. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[BoredIrish]

Will Liafau play?

 

[IrishLax]

As far as elite players skipping bowl games goes, we’d better get used to it. Next year you can book Mayer skipping the bowl game and 2 yrs from now (when we should be contending for a Natty) it’s going to be painful to have Mayor Blake and Big Joe Alt not playing. Missing AA LT and RT’s will be crippling. Hope I’m wrong.

There are no players who have sat out a playoff game as far as I can recall. You’ve even had guys like Waddle rush back from injury to try to play a few snaps. I can’t see anyone “opting out” of the playoffs (I.e. quitting on the team) no matter where they’re projected.

To be honest, Kyren is the first heathy ND player to EVER opt out of a bowl and I don’t expect it to be normalized. I think he was put in a weird spot of people telling him his draft stock would fall if he played in this game because ND won’t be able to run the ball + RBs have an outsized risk of getting hurt.

 

[GoldenAura]

 

[Dizzyphil]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1470146133959847941[/TWEET]

 

[Dizzyphil]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/tbhorka/status/1470146170081189891[/TWEET]

 

[Dizzyphil]

I hope this is the beginning of the type of coach BK wasn't... the attitude... 'You keep your foot on the gas pedal to win the drag race' attitude... I like it.

 

[rtrn2glory]

So is Foskey still trying to decide whether he's playing? I didn't see him mentioned in the defensive practice report by prister.