Jack Arute on Sirius

[kmoose]

At the end of the day, if it makes the alumni base and administration feel better for catching students and athletes drink or smoke weed and sending them home in the name of "higher standards" then that is fine. We can continue to be seen as an elitist institution that preaches the whole human and human dignity. There is nothing dignified about the way that we face many issues on campus. From sweeping sexual assault allegations under the rug, to the bastardly treatment of the LGBT community and minorities on campus, we are not in a position to throw stones at anyone.

I can't speak for what goes on on campus, socially, so I will have to take your word that it is less than ideal. But when it comes to "catching" athletes smoking weed: the NCAA mandates that the school drug test athletes. This isn't some "holier than thou" policy that ND has instituted. So the question of "should they test?" is answered for them. As a result, you now move on to "What do we do if someone is caught smoking pot?" The school could adopt very lenient standards, and bring the athlete and their coach in and admonish them, ala "Stop doing that, or I will tell you to stop doing that again!". Or they could stand on the principle of doing what is right, and administering meaningful consequences. They have chosen the higher standards. That's really all this is about. It's not about "We are better than everyone else." or "Our alumni feel better now." At least, that is what it is about, to me.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I don't think Alabama is anywhere near FSU's level.

I agree. Love or hate Saban, you have to respect him. I could see if DuBose was still the HC, but not Saban. Can you imagine how pissed Saban would have been w/ the Jameis circus? IMO, he's in a position where he could just say "Peace out MFers!" and go to the next gig b/c he's doesn't have time for that crap. Just my opinion.

To my recollection, Bama has stayed out from under the eye of the NCAA or the law during Saban's tenure. Not saying he nor the program is above reproach, but the buck stops w/ him when it comes to the program. That's one thing I struggle w/ being an ND fan. The buck will never stop w/ the HC....just ask Coach Holtz

 

[CarrollVermin]

I can't speak for what goes on on campus, socially, so I will have to take your word that it is less than ideal. But when it comes to "catching" athletes smoking weed: the NCAA mandates that the school drug test athletes. This isn't some "holier than thou" policy that ND has instituted. So the question of "should they test?" is answered for them. As a result, you now move on to "What do we do if someone is caught smoking pot?" The school could adopt very lenient standards, and bring the athlete and their coach in and admonish them, ala "Stop doing that, or I will tell you to stop doing that again!". Or they could stand on the principle of doing what is right, and administering meaningful consequences. They have chosen the higher standards. That's really all this is about. It's not about "We are better than everyone else." or "Our alumni feel better now." At least, that is what it is about, to me.

I can respect where you are coming from. Again, don't know if this was a failed drug test or an RA coming into their room.

I struggle with the term meaningful consequences. Again, why would you take away the opportunity for a better tomorrow? Not saying they do, but what does a student gain from being suspended for a period of time? Get them help if they need it. Don't send them back to a place where there are no rules, there is no help, and they don't get an education. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Booslum31]

I disagree with that. I think ND tries to uphold a certain level of responsibility with players and students alike. Nothing wrong with trying to build up the character of a football player who does something against the university rules. Taking responsibilty for one's actions is a dying breed amongst people today. Lowering standards and rules in order to deflect some of that responsibility should not be something that's expected by those who want to hold people to a higher ground.

I don't think smoking a joint should get one tossed from school. But ND didn't call me and ask my opinion either. Whatever the school decides if all this is in fact true, then fans of that school should embrace the fact that it appears ND is trying to hold those values up that built their reputation as a top university and builder of character.

Agree Tommy. When these things happen (frozen five, etc) we tend to jump all over administration. We don't tend to get pissed at the players. Cheating when cheating is taken seriously and smoking weed in a dorm is just stupid...and lazy. My biggest issue with this team has been the lack of leadership. Leadership sets the culture of the team and making each member believe/feel that they belong to something bigger and individual actions MATTER. Hearing it from the coach is hollow compared to hearing it from the leadership of the team. I was scared to death of putting the team in a bad light in college. Not because of the coach...but of the upperclassmen who set the tone on how we would roll. We also love to roll around in other teams transgressions and their Universities lack of oversight. Seems a little hypocritical to me...just sayin'

 

[pkt77242]

I can't speak for what goes on on campus, socially, so I will have to take your word that it is less than ideal. But when it comes to "catching" athletes smoking weed: the NCAA mandates that the school drug test athletes. This isn't some "holier than thou" policy that ND has instituted. So the question of "should they test?" is answered for them. As a result, you now move on to "What do we do if someone is caught smoking pot?" The school could adopt very lenient standards, and bring the athlete and their coach in and admonish them, ala "Stop doing that, or I will tell you to stop doing that again!". Or they could stand on the principle of doing what is right, and administering meaningful consequences. They have chosen the higher standards. That's really all this is about. It's not about "We are better than everyone else." or "Our alumni feel better now." At least, that is what it is about, to me.

I would say that the complaint is more along the lines of what is a meaningful consequence (at least amongst many people, some truly believe in no punishment but most of us just want a reasonable but meaningful punishment). I would say a semester ban for smoking weed is harsh. If you told me a first time offense was 2 games then I would say that it is meaningful without being overly punitive.

 

[CarrollVermin]

You seem to hate everything the University stands for. Worse, you seem not to believe that the university actually DOES stand on principle. ND is just as bad as everyone else says you. Not only that, but you seem to think ND is actually WORSE than everyone else since we're hypocrites about it.

I don't hate what the University stands for. Otherwise, I would have never sought out a degree from ND. But, there are some largely antiquated stances that the University takes. We are evolving as a community, and I am proud of that, but there are issues that we still cannot seem to overcome. At the sake of becoming a homogenous campus, where we all think the same, look the same, and act the same, it is important for the university to continue to evolve.

There were protests over the Vagina Monologues for Pete's sake. But again...I digress. Haha.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I agree. Love or hate Saban, you have to respect him. I could see if DuBose was still the HC, but not Saban. Can you imagine how pissed Saban would have been w/ the Jameis circus? IMO, he's in a position where he could just say "Peace out MFers!" and go to the next gig b/c he's doesn't have time for that crap. Just my opinion.

To my recollection, Bama has stayed out from under the eye of the NCAA or the law during Saban's tenure. Not saying he nor the program is above reproach, but the buck stops w/ him when it comes to the program. That's one thing I struggle w/ being an ND fan. The buck will never stop w/ the HC....just ask Coach Holtz

Hasn't been clear sailing for Nick though. He had the assault issue a while back. He dealt with it accordingly. He also had the TE get whacked with a bunch of pot and money. That's a big issue for him right now.

Most of what he does is behind the scenes stuff that most people never really know about. Just had a player suspended for a game because he was late to a meeting. Had another suspended for not having a class assignment turned in on time. And a lot of others who have lost a tremendous amount of playing time due to their issues. Dillon Lee and Geno with their DUI's come to mind. Poor old K. Drake started last year on the practice squad for some of his behavior. Suspended one for being in Taco Bell violating his diet.

 

[gkIrish]

Is it time to change the name of this thread yet?

Why? There hasn't been anything remotely official announced yet.

 

[Irish#1]

Only four states allow recreational smoking. Not the 20+ stated here.

He was high when he posted that.

 

[kmoose]

I can respect where you are coming from. Again, don't know if this was a failed drug test or an RA coming into their room.

I struggle with the term meaningful consequences. Again, why would you take away the opportunity for a better tomorrow? Not saying they do, but what does a student gain from being suspended for a period of time? Get them help if they need it. Don't send them back to a place where there are no rules, there is no help, and they don't get an education. Hope this makes sense.

It's not like ND is full of kids from Cabrini Green and Compton. Some of these kids who could be given a semester off are going to go spend their time in places like Newport Beach, CA; Asheville, NC; Myrtle Beach, SC; Reynoldsburg, OH; and Chandler, AZ.

But you do bring up a good point: you ask why "take away the opportunity for a better tomorrow?" A suspension does not take that opportunity away. Opportunity is a two-way street. If you are given an opportunity, it is up to you how it turns out. It can turn out like Chris Zorich's opportunity, or like Lawrence Phillips' opportunity. The same opportunity, two very different outcomes. Why? Because one lived up to their end of the deal, and the other did not.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Sorry for the typical update post. But has there been anything confirmed from Lax's post?

 

[CarrollVermin]

It's not like ND is full of kids from Cabrini Green and Compton. Some of these kids who could be given a semester off are going to go spend their time in places like Newport Beach, CA; Asheville, NC; Myrtle Beach, SC; Reynoldsburg, OH; and Chandler, AZ.

But you do bring up a good point: you ask why "take away the opportunity for a better tomorrow?" A suspension does not take that opportunity away. Opportunity is a two-way street. If you are given an opportunity, it is up to you how it turns out. It can turn out like Chris Zorich's opportunity, or like Lawrence Phillips' opportunity. The same opportunity, two very different outcomes. Why? Because one lived up to their end of the deal, and the other did not.

Cannot argue with that...

 

[Irish#1]

400+ posts on unsupported speculation.

 

[IrishLax]

Sorry for the typical update post. But has there been anything confirmed from Lax's post?

Which post? I should reiterate that I know nothing first hand, but had heard the Bryant/Folston thing before it started leaking out on message boards.

 

[kmoose]

400+ posts on unsupported speculation.

What are you new here?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Which post? I should reiterate that I know nothing first hand, but had heard the Bryant/Folston thing before it started leaking out on message boards.

Suspensions of Folston & Bryant. Is that a done deal? how long?

 

[Luckylucci]

Suspensions of Folston & Bryant. Is that a done deal? how long?

Not Lax and don't have any inside info but Sampson has said multiple times that there is something with legs here regarding players in trouble. However, no punishment has been decided yet.

 

[Irish YJ]

It's not like ND is full of kids from Cabrini Green and Compton. Some of these kids who could be given a semester off are going to go spend their time in places like Newport Beach, CA; Asheville, NC; Myrtle Beach, SC; Reynoldsburg, OH; and Chandler, AZ.

But you do bring up a good point: you ask why "take away the opportunity for a better tomorrow?" A suspension does not take that opportunity away. Opportunity is a two-way street. If you are given an opportunity, it is up to you how it turns out. It can turn out like Chris Zorich's opportunity, or like Lawrence Phillips' opportunity. The same opportunity, two very different outcomes. Why? Because one lived up to their end of the deal, and the other did not.

Agree. There needs to be some consequence when players don't live up to their end of the deal.
I'm pro legalization, but I'm anti-stupidity. A rule is a rule until it isn't a rule. IMO, if true, these kids made a choice. They don't have a problem (addiction). They just made a choice to get a buzz, knowing the risks involved. The help they need is common sense 101, or a class is risk analysis. Tired of hearing people blame laws (even if we disagree with those laws), the school, or others for stupid actions of kids.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Not Lax and don't have any inside info but Sampson has said multiple times that there is something with legs here regarding players in trouble. However, no punishment has been decided yet.

Thanks.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Doesn't BK have a typical Tuesday presser? Wonder if he has one scheduled today. I can guess he will not comment if asked.

 

[GoldenDome]

If you don't follow the rules, you will see the consequences. Actually, stricter punishment would be a bigger deterrent for behavior since many times people make conscious decisions for their choices and weigh the risk. Criminals do it all the time. They know the laws and decide which laws to break and weight opportunity costs. Many times people rob banks with no bullets in their gun knowing that for every bullet you have they is that much more time added to your punishment.

 

[dublinirish]

Doesn't BK have a typical Tuesday presser? Wonder if he has one scheduled today. I can guess he will not comment if asked.

i doubt he has 1 today

 

[Corry]

Suspended one for being in Taco Bell violating his diet.

That's hardcore

 

[T Town Tommy]

That's hardcore

Well that "one" is now in the NFL and is probably chowing down on a double order of Gordita tacos laughing. LOL

 

[EvilleIrish]

Well that "one" is now in the NFL and is probably chowing down on a double order of Gordita tacos laughing. LOL

Had to have been Terrence Cody...

 

[T Town Tommy]

Had to have been Terrence Cody...

Obvious choice but ... no. lol

 

[IrishLax]

Suspensions of Folston & Bryant. Is that a done deal? how long?

I don't know. A member here PM'd me about it early on in this whole thing, but I wasn't sure if it was related to something Jack Arute would know or care about. Then once people started mentioning it on other message boards, I sourced it with someone who would know and they wouldn't confirm much but didn't deny anything. Impression I got was that punishment hasn't been formalized so there's nothing to say right now, but it isn't looking good. Standard operating procedure would have them out for a semester (and might lead to transfer).

I don't know if there are also scholarship reductions or vacating wins or anything else brewing.

 

[BobbyMac]

I got a text last night saying they want to retest.

Does the university suspend them now for breaking team rules and they don't have to take a pre-bowl test and have a chance to fail or do they roll the dice and see if they pass?

If it were Purdue, they'd still have a failed test in their pocket for good measure.

 

[koonja]

Hasn't been clear sailing for Nick though. He had the assault issue a while back. He dealt with it accordingly. He also had the TE get whacked with a bunch of pot and money. That's a big issue for him right now.

Most of what he does is behind the scenes stuff that most people never really know about. Just had a player suspended for a game because he was late to a meeting. Had another suspended for not having a class assignment turned in on time. And a lot of others who have lost a tremendous amount of playing time due to their issues. Dillon Lee and Geno with their DUI's come to mind. Poor old K. Drake started last year on the practice squad for some of his behavior. Suspended one for being in Taco Bell violating his diet.

Longo would give that player a pat on the back and cheesecake for dessert.

 

[stlnd01]

For what it's worth, and it's been awhile, but when I was a student at ND I knew more than one kid who was caught smoking pot (or harder drugs) and the punishment was considerably less severe than a semester suspension from school. More along the lines of probation. One was kicked out out of the dorms for repeat offenses. Another, if he hadn't been my roommate, I'd never have known about it. This was during the tougher Malloy/Kirk era of Res Life, also at a time when pot use generally was a bit less socially acceptable than it is now.

Obviously circumstances can vary (like that basketball player who was caught by State Police a couple of years back). And the spotlight's brighter on athletes. And if it's not a first offense I'd expect a harsher punishment (that was the rumored deal with Justin Ferguson, right?) But all these people expecting our entire 2015 running back corps to be shipped back to Florida 'til Fall for smoking a joint seem a little over the top. At worst I'd think this is a Michael Floyd-type situation. More likely they stay home from the bowl game.

I certainly hope so anyway.