The Secondary

[DCIrish]

That is this teams biggest weakness. They got exposed against Alabama and it happened again tonight. If the DL does not get a good pass rush against a good QB this will happen because the CB's and safeties are not good enough.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Now THIS is some real talk. I generally agree.

I thought all along that the Jackson for All-American status was a joke, it is. They are all fine. None of them are bad. But they aren't all-americans, none of them. I'm not sure any play at a first-team all-conference lever either.

In fairness it's super tough to guard receivers on broken plays and it's impossible to play zone when receivers are coming back to the ball behind you. They didn't get "left out to dry" or exposed per se, it's just totally ****ing hard to cover guys for six seconds or more. Gardner's feet made stuff look wayyyyy easier than it was.

 

[anarin]

hahahahhaha

We need a "Special Teams" & "Water Boy" thread next

 

[phork]

This is about where I expected the secondary to be last year. They looked better than they were because everyone else was firing on all cylinders.

 

[chicago51]

That is this teams biggest weakness. They got exposed against Alabama and it happened again tonight. If the DL does not get a good pass rush against a good QB this will happen because the CB's and safeties are not good enough.

Yes I agree with this.

Especially after I saw Virginia Tech hold McCarren, Cooper, and company to just barely over 200 yards of offense in week 1. I know Bama lost some linemen to the NFL and that their offense ain't the one the ND saw in the national title game but if VT can cover Bama's WRs with Kyle Fuller (more of a run support corner) and a true freshman on the other side I think says that ND doesn't have anything special on the back end.

I am as guilty as anyone for overreacting so I am going to not to here. I think the ND defense stinks talk is premature but I do think our secondary is very much just average.

 

[Junkhead]

Our secondary looked great last year due to the front 7. LB especially is unproven, losing Teo and Spond. The DBs are paying the price.

 

[chicago51]

Now THIS is some real talk. I generally agree.

I thought all along that the Jackson for All-American status was a joke, it is. They are all fine. None of them are bad. But they aren't all-americans, none of them. I'm not sure any play at a first-team all-conference lever either.

In fairness it's super tough to guard receivers on broken plays and it's impossible to play zone when receivers are coming back to the ball behind you. They didn't get "left out to dry" or exposed per se, it's just totally ****ing hard to cover guys for six seconds or more. Gardner's feet made stuff look wayyyyy easier than it was.

To add to Jackson. I never got him being a mid round draft prospect at Corner either. Yea he is alright but I don't think he is an NFL talent.

 

[stlnd01]

In pass coverage, we need to get heat, to rattle QBs into throwing fast. Our DBs aren't so good that they can blanket quick guys like Gallon one on one for long. (though we were also victimized by two BS 3rd down pass interference calls deep in our own territory tonight)
What they can do is hold the corner and stick tackles, and they dont' get beat deep. That's not nothing.

 

[Kak7304]

Gardner was putting the ball where it had to be, especially the first half. Some of those completions came with solid coverage but unfortunately, perfect placement especially those back shoulder throws that are nearly impossible to cover. They didn't play their best game tonight, but they were not Weis years bad.

 

[BGIF]

Yes I agree with this.

Especially after I saw Virginia Tech hold McCarren, Cooper, and company to just barely over 200 yards of offense in week 1. I know Bama lost some linemen to the NFL and that their offense ain't the one the ND saw in the national title game but if VT can cover Bama's WRs with Kyle Fuller (more of a run support corner) and a true freshman on the other side I think says that ND doesn't have anything special on the back end.

I am as guilty as anyone for overreacting so I am going to not to here. I think the ND defense stinks talk is premature but I do think our secondary is very much just average.

Some linemen to the NFL? How about the FIRST ROUND's 10th, 11th, and 16th picks in the entire draft. Warmack, Fluker and Jones were then joined by Eddie Lacy in the 2nd Round. Obviously you don'ty remember Lacy, the RB that kept Safeties playing close in run support all last year so their receiver could go against single coverage. Then there was also TE Michael Williams who went in the 7th round. His blocking and catching made McCarren's job a little easier last year.

The team VT faced was nothing like the '12 Tide team. And then's there are the 4 Bama Defensive players who used to shut down opposing dfenses and give McCarren the ball back to feed to Lacy in between passes to single covered wideouts.


"Some linemen", right.

 

[NDfan12]

Some linemen to the NFL? How about the FIRST ROUND's 10th, 11th, and 16th picks in the entire draft. Warmack, Fluker and Jones were then joined by Eddie Lacy in the 2nd Round. Obviously you don'ty remember Lacy, the RB that kept Safeties playing close in run support all last year so their receiver could go against single coverage. Then there was also TE Michael Williams who went in the 7th round. His blocking and catching made McCarren's a little easier that last year.

The team VT faced was nothing like the '12 Tide team. And then's there are the 4 Bama Defensive players who used to shut down opposing dfenses and give McCarren the ball back to feed to Lacy in between passes to single covered wideouts.


"Some linemen", right.

This.

 

[Kak7304]

Some linemen to the NFL? How about the FIRST ROUND's 10th, 11th, and 16th picks in the entire draft. Warmack, Fluker and Jones were then joined by Eddie Lacy in the 2nd Round. Obviously you don'ty remember Lacy, the RB that kept Safeties playing close in run support all last year so their receiver could go against single coverage. Then there was also TE Michael Williams who went in the 7th round. His blocking and catching made McCarren's a little easier that last year.

The team VT faced was nothing like the '12 Tide team. And then's there are the 4 Bama Defensive players who used to shut down opposing dfenses and give McCarren the ball back to feed to Lacy in between passes to single covered wideouts.


"Some linemen", right.

As a unit, Bama's OL last year was the best I've seen in college football.

 

[BGIF]

As a unit, Bama's OL last year was the best I've seen in college football.

ND has had some great OLines that have done well in the NFL Draft during my lifetime but I can't think of any class remotely close to Bama's achievement. Actually I can't think of any other group from any school that has done what well.


"Some linemen" (sigh)

 

[tko]

Gardner was putting the ball where it had to be, especially the first half. Some of those completions came with solid coverage but unfortunately, perfect placement especially those back shoulder throws that are nearly impossible to cover. They didn't play their best game tonight, but they were not Weis years bad.

I am shocked by the precision by the Temple QB and Gardner last night. I'm not sure we can count on multiple hands poorly thrown balls the first two games. Both QB's were throwing the ball where only their player could get it. We definitely need some help up front with regards to disrupting timing, but our CB's haven't had much of a fighting chance. I will say Kei looked the worst and I hope we're not going to see PI be the norm for us this year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Gardner was putting the ball where it had to be, especially the first half. Some of those completions came with solid coverage but unfortunately, perfect placement especially those back shoulder throws that are nearly impossible to cover. They didn't play their best game tonight, but they were not Weis years bad.

This

We don't have lock down one on one corners, they are very rare. Our front 7 made our DBs look great last year. This year our LBs just aren't what they were last year. But Gardner looked great and a lot of his throws were near perfect. We got pressure when we wanted most of the time, we just couldn't keep contain.

 

[tko]

This

We don't have lock down one on one corners, they are very rare. Our front 7 made our DBs look great last year. This year our LBs just aren't what they were last year. But Gardner looked great and a lot of his throws were near perfect. We got pressure when we wanted most of the time, we just couldn't keep contain.

I still can't believe how spot on both Temple QB and Gardner were against us. Neither sniffed a wild throw. That is impossible to stop unless you straight guess. Again, I still feel good about what's next for this team.

 

[mrmiller8]

I will give credit where credit is due. Gardner played out of his mind last night. Every throw he made was on the money. It is nearly impossible to defend a well thrown back shoulder fade. Jeremy Gallon has been tormenting the Irish for what seems like 10 years. He is a great player and made some great plays in that game. Gardner extended plays and made every throw he needed to make. he got the ball out quick and made the right reads. The secondary will be fine. There is enough talent back there to be really good. Remember, Fairley and russell are sophomores and collinsworth is a first year starter. Lot of youth there.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

Some linemen to the NFL? How about the FIRST ROUND's 10th, 11th, and 16th picks in the entire draft. Warmack, Fluker and Jones were then joined by Eddie Lacy in the 2nd Round.

EJ Manuel? Not sure where you got 16th but Barrett Jones was drafted in the fourth round, 113th overall.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Now THIS is some real talk. I generally agree.

I thought all along that the Jackson for All-American status was a joke, it is. They are all fine. None of them are bad. But they aren't all-americans, none of them. I'm not sure any play at a first-team all-conference lever either.

In fairness it's super tough to guard receivers on broken plays and it's impossible to play zone when receivers are coming back to the ball behind you. They didn't get "left out to dry" or exposed per se, it's just totally ****ing hard to cover guys for six seconds or more. Gardner's feet made stuff look wayyyyy easier than it was.

Work with me on this Buster. I saw tape of Corey Robinson coming down with it over BJax consistently in summer camp. I wouldn't say regularly, or all the time, but I wouldn't say seldom, either. Now I was on the wagon with BJax for AA, right with you!

So, the we have this freshman that can hold his own with our most experienced corner. That means either the corner is getting beat by superman JR., or the corner isn't the best in America. Whose job is it to determine that? The guy who decides whether we play zone or man coverage, and when on defense?

I personally thought the linebackers were the weakest point of our defense, so much so that they brought the defensive line's great play down. For example, one of the great runs Gardner had was right over where Jaylon Smith was supposed to be. That is not a slam of Jaylon, can you imagine being a true freshman, playing in a game like this and having the opponents OC isolate on you? People went either way about Danny Spond, until he had to retire. For my money, (before his illness precluded it), this is why I preferred to see Danny start over Jaylon. There was one play where Jaylon closed on Devin Gardner and it almost shocked Devin to death. You could see it on Gardner's face. Brilliant, most talented player on defense maybe ever, but not experienced enough to be consistent.

Would I trade any of the LB's? No, not even Carlo. Were they in my opinion the weak leg of our defense? Yes, so much so that they pulled the other units down. They got caught in the gaps blitzing, gave up the area behind them that they are responsible for on pass coverage, negating the value of man on man in the secondary, and couldn't set the edge well either, which seemed to diminish the effectiveness of the d-line. That is just what I saw, and my humble opinion.

Oh, by the way, Michigan's starting center went to St. Johns Jesuit. Played with Mewhort, and one or two other D1 kids, like the d-lineman at IL. And they couldn't contend in HS!

 

[stlnd01]

I still can't believe how spot on both Temple QB and Gardner were against us. Neither sniffed a wild throw. That is impossible to stop unless you straight guess. Again, I still feel good about what's next for this team.

Good quarterbacks don't often throw wild passes unbidden. This comes back to pressure. That's what forces wild throws and interceptions (including both last night). It's not just a matter of coverage. Our DBs aren't bad. What made them great last year was the pass rush and the hands in the face of QBs. I'm flummoxed as to why that hasn't happened more in the first two games.

 

[chicago51]

Good quarterbacks don't often throw wild passes unbidden. This comes back to pressure. That's what forces wild throws and interceptions (including both last night). It's not just a matter of coverage. Our DBs aren't bad. What made them great last year was the pass rush and the hands in the face of QBs. I'm flummoxed as to why that hasn't happened more in the first two games.

Here's my take on the pass rush:

Both Michigan and Temple started out with a lot of 3 step drops. Short patterns that got the ball out of the QB's hand quickly. It seemed like once they completed a few short one's the ND dline got frustrated and taken off their game a bit. Then they (Michigan more so then Temple) were able to mix some deeper longer developing passes.

ND wants to play bend but don't break defense so they play soft. So far see the counter has been throw it quick before the rush can get there and soft coverage plays right into that. ND needs to do a better job of taking away the easy throws make the quarterback hold it longer then the D-line needs to live up to its billing and get the hurries hits and sacks.

 

[JughedJones]

I don't think the Secondary is a problem.

In fact, I think it's a plus.

I think Nix, Tuitt, and Shembo haven't been ready to go.


That's ******, I know. But if I'm right, we'll be just fine while we blow through these lesser asskunks on our schedule.

I will bet anyone on here 100 real dollars that we win 10 games.


(Addendum: that "anyone" has to have at least 1000 posts)

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't think the Secondary is a problem.

In fact, I think it's a plus.

I think Nix, Tuitt, and Shembo haven't been ready to go.


That's ******, I know. But if I'm right, we'll be just fine while we blow through these lesser asskunks on our schedule.

I will bet anyone on here 100 real dollars that we win 10 games.


(Addendum: that "anyone" has to have at least 1000 posts)

Including a bowl game?

 

[GoIrish41]

ND has had some great OLines that have done well in the NFL Draft during my lifetime but I can't think of any class remotely close to Bama's achievement. Actually I can't think of any other group from any school that has done what well.


"Some linemen" (sigh)

USC line in the early 80s was probably the best line I've ever seen, but last year's BAMA line was definately in the conversation.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

as others have said, the secondary is walking a tightrope because of lackluster/sub-par LB play.

a true frosh--who may have a better first year than Te'o, but still finding his way.

Fox and Calabrese should almost never be on the field at the same time.

Prince being about as effective as Lynch is to the bulls.

Grace getting very limited reps besides being on of the most athletic LB's on the team.

Secondary isnt necessarily being exposed, they are almost being asked to "do too much".

 

[Irish Fam]

It was mentioned a little earlier, but I don't think our DBs are quite as bad as some are acting right now. Nor are they as good as many of us thought preseason.

Gardner was running around behind the line of scrimmage avoiding heavy rushes and in turn beating our corners and safeties who were left to cover for far too long

 

[IrishinTN]

I still can't believe how spot on both Temple QB and Gardner were against us. Neither sniffed a wild throw. That is impossible to stop unless you straight guess. Again, I still feel good about what's next for this team.

Stephon Tuitt would like to argue with that, but yeah, other than that one he was ridiculously good.

I don't get how some folks (and not TKO since I quoted him, but plenty of others) have this "everybody on the team sucks" mentality after that game. Is it so hard to say that Michigan actually played that well? I know we have issues to work out, but Michigan would have beaten a hell of a lot of teams on Saturday night.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

It's painful, but you should read MGoBlog's review of the game:

Here's the thing about Notre Dame's defense: it's going to be just fine. Gardner ate plenty of defensive lineman Saturday, usually after delivering a perfectly-placed dart. Notre Dame blitzed him almost two-thirds of the time and got the one huge mistake and nothing else. Notre Dame defensive backs were, with rare exceptions, in position to make a play on anything other than a perfectly-placed ball. They could not make plays without committing pass interference, called or not, because Devin Gardner was spitting hot death all night long.

And that's coming from a hated opponent who has no reason to be charitable at all. Gardner was just unstoppable.

 

[NDhoosier]

he was way more accurate than I thought he would be. I was completely wrong about Gardner, lets see if he can keep it consistently.