Illegal Immigrant to get Law License?

[Rhode Irish]

Just like EVERY other job every where, there are good people and there are bad people.

If a non-citizen is qualified enough to serve the country and earn their citizenship that way, why can't one become a lawyer if he/she is smart enough? If they can pay their way through school then why hold them down?

If he qualifies for it then go with God my friend.

Exactly.

 

[magogian]

Aw heck, let the illegal run for President.

 

[gkIrish]

Aw heck, let the illegal run for President.

 

[magogian]

Darnit, he stopped it! And here I wanted to keep going. I will anyway.

California requires an attorney's oath of office to contain the following:
Every person on his admission shall take an oath
to support the Constitution of the United States and the
Constitution of the State of California, and faithfully to
discharge the duties of any attorney at law to the best of his
knowledge and ability. A certificate of the oath shall be
indorsed upon his license.

And here is the Presidential oath of office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

If an illegal can swear the former, why not the latter?

 

[jmurphy75]

So is it your position that most illegal immigrants come to this country to not find gainful employment? Not being a smart@$$, real question.

As for the language issue, your grandfather should be commended for his efforts to assimilate into the US. My grandfather did the same, as did my grandmother, mother, aunts, and uncles. However, I don't find that the use of "old country" language is at all unique to Hispanic immigrants and I don't necessarily think it's an entitlement issue either. From my experience, the learning and/or adoption of the use of English (I'm assuming "the language" is English) varies depending on educational levels and the neighborhoods that you live in. If you need English to function during your day to day activities, you will learn it. If you don't, then it's far less likely.

You just explained part of the problem I can't speak for other parts of the country but in Florida people that speak Spanish do not have to learn English anymore and it's been this way for quite a while. The Hispanic community in Florida has been catered too for so long that it is expected....hence the sense of being entitled to things being in Spanish and not English. It's great that people come here to America for a better life...but do it the right way and have some respect for the country that you choose to come to, it's language and it's laws.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The US doesn't have an official language. People can speak whatever language they want and live with the disadvantages of whatever language they are speaking. If they want to only speak Spanish, that's fine, but they are marginalizing themselves to small portions of the country.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The US doesn't have an official language. People can speak whatever language they want and live with the disadvantages of whatever language they are speaking. If they want to only speak Spanish, that's fine, but they are marginalizing themselves to small portions of the country.

We need to go ahead and have an Amendment that states that English is the official language.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

We need to go ahead and have an Amendment that states that English is the official language.

What would be the benefit of that? Language barriers really aren't a big deal when schools teach pretty much only in English. Having a national language goes against basic American principles. People should be free to speak whatever language they want. The norm favors English-speakers anyways.

 

[Buster Bluth]

What would be the benefit of that? Language barriers really aren't a big deal when schools teach pretty much only in English. Having a national language goes against basic American principles. People should be free to speak whatever language they want. The norm favors English-speakers anyways.

And they can continue to do so?

 

[Bluto]

What would be the benefit of that? Language barriers really aren't a big deal when schools teach pretty much only in English. Having a national language goes against basic American principles. People should be free to speak whatever language they want. The norm favors English-speakers anyways.

No more captions on Swamp People?

 

[Bluto]

Seriously though. The Mexicans in Mexico think the Mexicans here don't speak "real" Spanish.

 

[Bluto]

We need high walls, with wide LEGAL gates. IMO

That makes sense. Good luck convincing a bunch of people in the deep south about the wide gates thing.

 

[jmurphy75]

What would be the benefit of that? Language barriers really aren't a big deal when schools teach pretty much only in English. Having a national language goes against basic American principles. People should be free to speak whatever language they want. The norm favors English-speakers anyways.[/QUOIt might not be a benifit but it is a dam good idea. If you really have to ask why then you'll never get it, it's the language that this countries fore fathers spoke. It's the language that the people that came here and made this country what it is spoke, it's the language that every soldier that gave their life for the principals and freedom of this country spoke. No really it goes against basic American principals. People can be free to speak what ever language they want as long as they can also communicate in English. Maybe you should leave Indy and come spend some time in FL, TX, or Cali then you might be able to understand the problem.

 

[Bluto]

@Jmurphy. California passed an English as the official language proposition. It's made a world of difference. People speaking Spanish in California is not much of a big deal. Like it or not the US is well on its way to being mutil lingual like much the rest of the world and a new blend of English and Spanish is already kind of emerging in some areas. That's the way language works. It evolves or dies. Maybe we should just all go back to speaking Latin? Anyhow, call me crazy but African slaves and Chinese laborers (many of whom did not speak English) were instrumental in building a whole bunch of stuff in this country.

 

[Zwidmanio]

You just explained part of the problem I can't speak for other parts of the country but in Florida people that speak Spanish do not have to learn English anymore and it's been this way for quite a while. The Hispanic community in Florida has been catered too for so long that it is expected....hence the sense of being entitled to things being in Spanish and not English. It's great that people come here to America for a better life...but do it the right way and have some respect for the country that you choose to come to, it's language and it's laws.

What does this "entitlement" entail and why does it offend you so much though? As stated succinctly above, the United States does not have an official language and I, for one, am not of the mind that we necessarily need to establish one.

Also, there's some irony in your statement that Spanish speakers in Florida have been catered to for so long, given that it was a Spanish colony for a long time before it became a state. Even more significantly, Puerto Ricans and some populations of Hispanics in the Southwest have roots that go back further than any English speaking settlers so...

 

[dshans]

We need to go ahead and have an Amendment that states that English is the official language.

Danger Will Robinson, danger!

English is the de facto "official" language. There is no need to make it the de jure language.

jmurphy, what was your grandparents' primary language? When did they emigrate to the U.S. and where did they live? It makes a difference.

In the many years I lived in FL I ran into many Cubans who spoke both english and spanish. Most who spoke only spanish were older immigrants. The year I spent in Miami before heading to MN I was jealous of the kids in school. Students were required to study both english and spanish. I was at a disadvantage. Two years of high school spanish and a semester at ND didn't come close to my being fluent.

I was impressed by the ability of both Anglos and Cubanos to slide seamlessly from one language to another. I was also very impressed with a number of foreign exchange students I met when my (ex) wife taught French and English in high school. One kid (from Switzerland, I think) was fluent in five languages.

Clearly this country has been built by immigrants from many nations. Some spoke english, others not. There is always a transition period.

Minnesota has absorbed German, Swedish, Norwegian and Irish immigrants. In more contemporary history ongoing waves of Mexican, Hmong and Somali immigrants. There are some snags here and there, but for the most part all is well. Once a generation passes through the public school system line tend to blur.

 

[Rhode Irish]

You just explained part of the problem I can't speak for other parts of the country but in Florida people that speak Spanish do not have to learn English anymore and it's been this way for quite a while. The Hispanic community in Florida has been catered too for so long that it is expected....hence the sense of being entitled to things being in Spanish and not English. It's great that people come here to America for a better life...but do it the right way and have some respect for the country that you choose to come to, it's language and it's laws.

Maybe I misunderstood this story, but I don't recall an issue being made about what language he speaks. You can be "legal" and not speak English, or "illegal" and speak perfect English. The two concepts are not related.

 

[BobD]

This is terrible. We have to stop this abuse of illegal aliens from Mexico. It's one thing to have them hanging drywall, housekeeping or farm labor but we need to draw the line somewhere....forcing someone to become a lowly attorney, well, thats just not right.

 

[ACamp1900]

You think once this dude gets his license he can help me deport my wife.....

 

[Bluto]

You think once this dude gets his license he can help me deport my wife.....

Make the situation so unbearable she'll deport herself....

 

[NDFan4Life]

When it comes to this issue, not all issues, the left convinently uses "undocumented". That's why I mentioned the left doesn't care about "illegal". Should've been more clear.

And no, the left doesnt. It's votes. Just look what our president is doing. Going around congress to fill the ballot box. Why else would he allow them to stay given our economy and unemployed American workers??
And in my comment, I don't see anything about teachers or unions? Maybe a prior convo? Either way, why don't we stick to this subject, huh??

I wouldn't worry too much about the unemployment. Afterall, Obama said the private sector is doing "fine".

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Darnit, he stopped it! And here I wanted to keep going. I will anyway.

California requires an attorney's oath of office to contain the following:
Every person on his admission shall take an oath
to support the Constitution of the United States and the
Constitution of the State of California, and faithfully to
discharge the duties of any attorney at law to the best of his
knowledge and ability. A certificate of the oath shall be
indorsed upon his license.

And here is the Presidential oath of office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

If an illegal can swear the former, why not the latter?

The Fourteenth Amendment.

Look, I am not trying to pick on anyone here. But this is some weak conversation backed by some weaker logic. Not the particular post, the whole thread.

I am part Native American. Yet I cannot be President of the United States because I hold a dual citizenship, and was naturalized. So be it.

It is interesting that everybody's current target prejudice group for excluding from US citizenship is comprised of individuals of descendants of people who roamed the area regardless of borders for millennia. Different tribes, different border, (of the US), but the same idea.

 

[Grahambo]

28 of the 50 states have adopted English as the official language.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

What is the statistic now? What percentage of American citizens can pass the naturalization exam? Don't forget most of us came from immigration, and for every "lazy" immigrant you THINK you know, there are 10 hard working, tail busting, immigrants who would do anything to stay in this country.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What is the statistic now? What percentage of American citizens can pass the naturalization exam? Don't forget most of us came from immigration, and for every "lazy" immigrant you THINK you know, there are 10 hard working, tail busting, immigrants who would do anything to stay in this country.

Best post in the thread! Cause I am one of 'em. I served my country, paid my taxes, have volunteered countless hours from working with disabled (Brain trauma included) vets, to teaching kindergartners to read. (For all the years I have volunteered one of the teachers has figured I've been involved with as many as 1,500 kids.) I have raised seven socially responsible children two of whom have graduated from college and have started families of their own.

I also am a descendent of people who were treated with extreme prejudice, like the Hispanic are today. In cartoons, one in particular, showed the line of human progression with Caucasians (English, and few select other Western Europeans) at the top, African Americans below monkeys, and Irish below Africans. I can produce the cartoon through a friend's archives, as well as a collection of "Irish Need Not Apply" signs. In the 1840's through the 1930's the Irish were at the effect of monstrous attacks. It was claimed that they would ruin the country. What they did was preserve the Union, up to forty percent of all the combatants, North and South were Irish. Just think, one of the smallest Western European countries nearly contributed more soldiers that the rest of the world and the Sons of the Mayflower combined!

The Irish provided the backbone of the police and fire service throughout the country, and provided the backbone for the most explosive military growth in a country's capabilities to wage war, ever. The Irish came in and did the jobs no one else would or could, just like the Hispanics are today. They dug the drainage ditches, canals, and railroads of America, and dug the building foundations into the clay and bedrock for the buildings and factories of our towns. The value of the Irish was they had no value. They were not “prized property”, nor did they have anything, so they worked and died; they were expendable. The saying was, "America was built by Wind power, Steam power, and Irish power." I know that to be true, it is etched in my own family's American experience.

And I have seen this progression with the Hispanic. I have a number of people I have known, who have great stories to tell of non-citizen enlistees who have paid for their (families) residence in America with their own blood, in Iran and Iraq. I have experienced this in the work I have done with disabled vets. Everyone who served has a story of this singular bravery that they would pay for a new home (country with freedom and opportunity) with their blood. Would each of you?

 

[rikkitikki08]

I predict someone will be banned due to this thread........over/under on 20 hours?

 

[rikkitikki08]

Best post in the thread! Cause I am one of 'em. I served my country, paid my taxes, have volunteered countless hours from working with disabled (Brain trauma included) vets, to teaching kindergartners to read. (For all the years I have volunteered one of the teachers has figured I've been involved with as many as 1,500 kids.) I have raised seven socially responsible children two of whom have graduated from college and have started families of their own.

Good for you man, you have lived a hell of a life

 

[RDU Irish]

There are many lawyers or future lawyers that are members of IE. Please try not to trash the profession because you had a bad experience

How about submitting someone who has had a GOOD experience with a lawyer? I'll grant you, OJ Simpson probably loved his first round of lawyers. What I find most destructive to our way of life is the fact people cannot really defend themselves and you better have a six figure legal fund on reserve if you want to be able to survive any type of legal entanglement that may come up. And a few years of sick leave as well since our system really doesn't allow anything to be resolved in less than three years.

Last I checked, I am entitled to my opinion. My opinion is that there are WAY too many lawyers on this planet. On average they are leaches. Statistics also show that most lawyers make way less than people think and many end up out of law fairly quickly. Unless you are top quartile at a decent school (or related to a partner at a meaningful firm) you have a huge uphill battle to a positive ROI on your law school investment.

As to the IE participants that are lawyers, I am sure they are exceptions to the rule.

 

[RDU Irish]

What is the statistic now? What percentage of American citizens can pass the naturalization exam? Don't forget most of us came from immigration, and for every "lazy" immigrant you THINK you know, there are 10 hard working, tail busting, immigrants who would do anything to stay in this country.

I'll submit that for every "lazy" immigrant there are at least a dozen lazy, entitled natural born citizens. They then whine that immigrants are stealing their jobs but refuse to do manual labor or anything mildly inconvenient to their sense of self.

Immigrants are great, they are the lifeblood of this country and the answer to a demographic meteor heading our way as boomer hit retirement age, life expectancy grows and birth rates decline. Why not dish out work visas like candy and streamline citizenship for anyone who has been here ten years minimum and kept their nose clean.

Repubs and Dems are equally guilty on immigration. They really don't want to fix it, just use it to rile up portions of the base.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What is the statistic now? What percentage of American citizens can pass the naturalization exam? Don't forget most of us came from immigration, and for every "lazy" immigrant you THINK you know, there are 10 hard working, tail busting, immigrants who would do anything to stay in this country.

As far as the political end of this discussion, I fully believe in Gore Vidal's conjecture that this country has one political party, the party of property, with two wings, the left and right. The left is a little better to the little guy, the right a little cozier with those that already have some wealth. But, at the end of the day, they both will use you up, if left to their own device. Kind of like my father used to say, "Politics is like good magic, one had distracts you while the other hand does the work. All the while you are left feeling entertained. That is, until you check your wallet."

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkIrish
There are many lawyers or future lawyers that are members of IE. Please try not to trash the profession because you had a bad experience

How about submitting someone who has had a GOOD experience with a lawyer? I'll grant you, OJ Simpson probably loved his first round of lawyers. What I find most destructive to our way of life is the fact people cannot really defend themselves and you better have a six figure legal fund on reserve if you want to be able to survive any type of legal entanglement that may come up. And a few years of sick leave as well since our system really doesn't allow anything to be resolved in less than three years.

Last I checked, I am entitled to my opinion. My opinion is that there are WAY too many lawyers on this planet. On average they are leaches. Statistics also show that most lawyers make way less than people think and many end up out of law fairly quickly. Unless you are top quartile at a decent school (or related to a partner at a meaningful firm) you have a huge uphill battle to a positive ROI on your law school investment.

As to the IE participants that are lawyers, I am sure they are exceptions to the rule.

As far as lawyers: The two facts that impress me about lawyers, are that there are far more good lawyers than bad, and the "ethosphere" of the legal field in general. In the legal profession, survival isn't based upon any moral or social concept. So often the bad are the ones that thrive and prosper. Same with politicians.

No. I was born in this country.


Are you kidding?

See with most citizens it is an accident of birth. Others have to work for it (illegal or legal, it matters not). Guess which group is more innovative? Ask Nikola Tesla or the majority of theoretical scientists that developed the a-bomb or our manned space program.

Good for you man, you have lived a hell of a life

And I am not close to fukkin done!