How many more chances does Golson get?

[Catholics_Rule]

Give me a break. Did you watch the Michigan and Florida State games? Frankly I think a finger should be pointed squarely at Golson. He has let this team down in a big way two seasons in a row. Maybe this crisis in confidence stems from that? BK clearly stated before the season even began that Golson was going to have to take charge, be the man and the O was going to have carry this team. When he really needed to step up he, along with some of the other leaders on offense completely folded. Happens all the time in football. If your Senior QB is going to be incosnsitent and erratic it's hard not to expect that from the rest of the offense. End of story.

The coach my friends, family and I see on the sidelines is "lifeless" and looked like he didn't even want to be there. No better example was Sarurday against our biggest rival.

 

[irishandy]

I believe that Kelly will be at ND 2-3 more years tops.

One thing to be thankful for about Golson against USC is that the game was not at home. Anyone remember the 2007 game at home against Boston College? Clausen was booed by the whole stadium and Sharpley was welcomed with cheers. While I (among many) have been critical of Golson I would hate for anyone from the home team to hear 80,000 plus boos, and I believe Notre Dame Stadium would've booed Golson.

Godspeed Everett, Godspeed....

 

[dshans]

I believe that Kelly will be at ND 2-3 more years tops.
... I would hate for anyone from the home team to hear 80,000 plus boos, and I believe Notre Dame Stadium would've booed Golson.

Wait.

From what I've read the crowd at ND home games is notoriously, annoyingly, aggravatingly, gratingly (and usher-enabled) quiet and arthritically fat-assed-fastened in their seats.

Whence all the "boos?"

 

[Irish#1]

1. Golson will start the bowl game, but I see Malik getting close to 50% of the snaps.
2. Golson will go undrafted if he elects to leave.
A) His height is his first battle to overcome and having his passes batted down with regularity shows he hasn't figured it out.
B) His penchant for fumbling and throwing INT's has also hurt him.
C) His lack of development over the course of the season will be scrutinized, especially after working with Whitfield.
3. I loved the fire Malik plays with.

 

[NDohio]

Sorry if I missed this.
Will EG graduate at the end of this year?

 

[IRISH in MT]

Agree. I'm over Golson, and pretty much anyone and anything associated with the unmitigated disaster known as the 2014 Notre Dame Football team.

How did it ever get to this point?!?! I know QB play is huge but the defense has been porous for a month and a half too. I know injuries hurt but at the same time if I was a true freshman getting to play I would be so pumped to prove my worth that pride alone would will me to at least man my spot.

No offense, but I'd be fine if we never saw him take a snap as the starter again. He's had his chance. I hope Malik takes the reigns and never looks back.

I agree koonja! He had his chances to pull out of this funk. Gotta hold him accountable and let the next man try.

It's amazing how much worse he has gotten over the year.

It wasn't progressive...it was a light switch to OFF. The UNC game started it. He rebounded against FSU. Since then, he has been a consistent dUMptster fire.

 

[IRISH in MT]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Golson is sitting by himself on the bench. Ive defended him all season and in many ways will continue to do so, but that shows no leadership</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/538828191519870976">November 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yup. Can't agree more. Haven't really seen Golson try to pick up the team when things were at their worst. He should be helping coach up Malik right now if he was a leader. I think he's shown to be selfish and all about "me" when things are at their worst and when he comes off the sidelines after a mistake.

Zaire seems more coach-able from a personality standpoint as well. Zaire seemed willing to listen to Kelly's advice as he came off the sideline, while Golson would walk right past Kelly as he was talking to him.

ALL 3 of you are right on. It did NOT surprise me he was sitting on the end of the bench by himself. EG is a pouter. Doesn't like to hear advice even though they are tyring to help him. Seems to have that "yeah, yeah, I know" attitude. BK has to literally grab him by the arm, make him look into his eyes just to talk to him. To me that is coddling an immature QB. All his QB's at Cinci seemed scared of him and Malik seems to be able to handle criticism better. Time for accountability!

 

[IRISH in MT]

Zaire may not be as precise as a passer as EG but I will take incompletions over interceptions and a QB with the ability to properly run a read-option any day over completion %.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I wouldn't throw the towel in on Golson just yet. He's shown flashes of what he can do. He has arm strength and talent, 2 things you can't teach.

 

[BigIrish]

I wouldn't throw the towel in on Golson just yet. He's shown flashes of what he can do. He has arm strength and talent, 2 things you can't teach.

You also can't teach height, which I think is his main problem in making some throws, particularly over the middle of the field. Nor can you teach leadership, which is not a trait automatically bestowed upon the best athletes. Just ask Joe Schmidt.

From the outside looking in, leadership appears to be Golson's biggest failing. I suspect that in some circles, he was already on shaky ground due to his cheating scandal. But beyond that, he simply doesn't seem to display any leadership traits. For anyone who has been involved in team sports for any amount of time, you've seen athletes like Golson. Extremely talented, but devoid of leadership. They will use their talent to win games for the team sometimes, but their efforts do not actually make the team a better team from week to week. This type of athlete can be a great compliment to an already good team with established leadership, but in football, the QB position is supposed to be a leader by default.

Golson doesn't lead, motivate or inspire. That doesn't make him a bad guy or diminish his talent in any way. It just means that he's never going to carry this team on his shoulders.

Tommy Rees was a leader. So was Brady Quinn. Jimmy Clausen was not. I don't know if Malik Zaire can be a better leader or not. That remains to be seen. But he deserves a shot to prove himself, because what's broken with Golson isn't going to be fixed by a football coach.

 

[ulukinatme]

Tommy Rees was a leader. So was Brady Quinn. Jimmy Clausen was not. I don't know if Malik Zaire can be a better leader or not. That remains to be seen. But he deserves a shot to prove himself, because what's broken with Golson isn't going to be fixed by a football coach.

I think Malik can be a leader. In his limited showings in spring games and last week I think he's displayed it. I like his charisma and confidence, and he seems more respectful of the coaches. Golson isn't a QB, he's an athlete. A tremendous athlete, certainly, but he's not that great with reading the option and he struggles to go through his receiver progressions. Where his strength lies is when a play breaks down and he's able to buy time or take off running, both of which I think Zaire is capable of doing. I don't think Golson is done yet, but I'm hoping we get to see Malik as well.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Zaire may not be as precise as a passer as EG but I will take incompletions over interceptions and a QB with the ability to properly run a read-option any day over completion %.

Depends on the offense we are running. If we are running Auburn's offense, I agree with your statement. If we are running Brian Kelly's offense, I want a QB who routinely has a high completion percentage, it's a far bigger indicator of success in this offense. The other thing is important but it's 70/30 at best.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think BK, LeFluer, and a true OC will be the deciding factors when it comes to ND having an elite QB. Golson, Malik, Kizer, and Wimbush all have the makeup for it. Golson has proved at times he can be. But we'll see what happens down the stretch now that EG is struggling, MZ is chomping at his heels, and DK is coming off his redshirt. BK needs to put these guys in better positions to win and be successful. I feel like he put way too much on EG this year and he finally cracked.

 

[wizards8507]

Zaire may not be as precise as a passer as EG but I will take incompletions over interceptions and a QB with the ability to properly run a read-option any day over completion %.

Zaire's imprecision seemed to be missing high a bit. Those throws are usually the product of nerves and/or inexperience. I think those things will come with time.

I wouldn't throw the towel in on Golson just yet. He's shown flashes of what he can do. He has arm strength and talent, 2 things you can't teach.

Zaire has both of those things. Other things you can't teach include size and speed. Both of those are advantage: Malik.

 

[ulukinatme]

This was sent to me, not my words, but I think the points are valid:

My opinion of Golson is that he just isn't mentally tough. His body language, the way he "communicates" with Kelly, the defeated mentality he shows at times, all lead me to conclude that his issues are between his ears and not with his ability and that is much harder to fix. And if not fixed, it becomes a cancer to the team.

Golson will never be a dynamic QB who can make reads, adjust in and out of plays, and make the right calls. If you could put Rees' ability to do those things with Golson's ability to extend plays, etc then you would have a really solid QB.

 

[Irish Insanity]

You also can't teach height, which I think is his main problem in making some throws, particularly over the middle of the field. Nor can you teach leadership, which is not a trait automatically bestowed upon the best athletes. Just ask Joe Schmidt.

Both Zaire and Golson are listed at 6'. Height shouldn't matter in this discussion. As far as leadership, how can anyone say Zaire is more of a leader considering he's played all of 1 half as a starter. I'm not saying he isn't, or won't be. But there isn't anything to show he is. And I'm in the start Zaire for the bowl game and make a complete open competition next year crowd. I just don't think all hope is lost for Golson as some seem to think.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Zaire's imprecision seemed to be missing high a bit. Those throws are usually the product of nerves and/or inexperience. I think those things will come with time.


Zaire has both of those things. Other things you can't teach include size and speed. Both of those are advantage: Malik.

Golson, at this point, has superior arm talent. As far as size and speed. Both are listed at 6' with Zaire listed 10 pounds heavier. It's not like he's Tim Tebow in weight. And how much does speed matter if we aren't running are QB. I'm not saying, nor have I, that Zaire shouldn't start or is bad or anything. Simply said don't throw in the towel on Golson.

 

[IrishLion]

Golson, at this point, has superior arm talent. As far as size and speed. Both are listed at 6' with Zaire listed 10 pounds heavier. It's not like he's Tim Tebow in weight. And how much does speed matter if we aren't running are QB. I'm not saying, nor have I, that Zaire shouldn't start or is bad or anything. Simply said don't throw in the towel on Golson.

I'd be shocked if it doesn't turn out that Zaire is a true 6', with Golson closer to 5'10". Those two inches could be a pretty big deal when trying to see the entire field.

Maybe Malik's additional weight just makes him seem that much more imposing and physically bigger, though.

 

[wizards8507]

Golson, at this point, has superior arm talent.

Define arm "talent." If we're talking deep ball, I'd say advantage Golson. "Zip" on mid-range throws, advantage Malik. Touch, obviously Golson but that's leaving the territory of "things you can't teach" that we've been focusing on.

As far as size and speed. Both are listed at 6' with Zaire listed 10 pounds heavier. It's not like he's Tim Tebow in weight.

If Zaire and Golson are both ACTUALLY the same height and 10 pounds apart, I'll eat my shoe.

Skinny arms:

Koonja arms:

And how much does speed matter if we aren't running are QB. I'm not saying, nor have I, that Zaire shouldn't start or is bad or anything. Simply said don't throw in the towel on Golson.

Chicken or the egg. Are we not running the QB so size and speed don't matter as much, or are we not running the QB BECAUSE we don't have the size and speed in there?

 

[ulukinatme]

Golson, at this point, has superior arm talent. As far as size and speed. Both are listed at 6' with Zaire listed 10 pounds heavier. It's not like he's Tim Tebow in weight. And how much does speed matter if we aren't running are QB. I'm not saying, nor have I, that Zaire shouldn't start or is bad or anything. Simply said don't throw in the towel on Golson.

I don't really see much point in sticking with Golson, but I'm willing to bet Kelly will for a bit. I just don't think Golson will ever be a true QB, and he's lost his confidence at this point. Better to give Zaire the snaps and get him the experience for next year. This team needs a leader, Zaire can step up and be that leader.

 

[BigIrish]

I'd be shocked if it doesn't turn out that Zaire is a true 6', with Golson closer to 5'10". Those two inches could be a pretty big deal when trying to see the entire field.

Maybe Malik's additional weight just makes him seem that much more imposing and physically bigger, though.

This.

No way in hell that Golson is the same size as Malik. Golson is and always has been 5'10". His roster stats for height are about as credible as a recruiter's stop watch at a 40 yd dash.

 

[dublinirish]

This.

No way in hell that Golson is the same size as Malik. Golson is and always has been 5'10". His roster stats for height are about as credible as a recruiter's stop watch at a 40 yd dash.

was just about to say there is no way Golson is anything more than 5'10.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Define arm "talent." If we're talking deep ball, I'd say advantage Golson. "Zip" on mid-range throws, advantage Malik. Touch, obviously Golson but that's leaving the territory of "things you can't teach" that we've been focusing on.


If Zaire and Golson are both ACTUALLY the same height and 10 pounds apart, I'll eat my shoe.

Skinny arms:

Koonja arms:

Chicken or the egg. Are we not running the QB so size and speed don't matter as much, or are we not running the QB BECAUSE we don't have the size and speed in there?

As far as arm talent. What I'm saying , from what I've seen, I'd take Golson's are right now

Good question about the running issue. I've just always felt that Kelly has tried keeping Golson in the pocket even when he didn't have fumble issues.

 

[tankjeep]

Both Zaire and Golson are listed at 6'. Height shouldn't matter in this discussion. As far as leadership, how can anyone say Zaire is more of a leader considering he's played all of 1 half as a starter. I'm not saying he isn't, or won't be. But there isn't anything to show he is. And I'm in the start Zaire for the bowl game and make a complete open competition next year crowd. I just don't think all hope is lost for Golson as some seem to think.

definitely a small sample size, but his demeanor, sense of urgency and willing to take criticism shows there is a strong potential for solid leadership. as other's have pointed out, golson just doesn't display those qualities. in the past BK has been tough on his qb's by greeting them with a vein busting red foreheaded wide eyed mug. with golson he clearly changed this approach to be more nurturing. and even then, golson shows resentful body language along with what seems like an argumentative dialogue.

 

[IRISH in MT]

I wouldn't throw the towel in on Golson just yet. He's shown flashes of what he can do. He has arm strength and talent, 2 things you can't teach.

I am not giving up on him but I think he needs to watch Malik play so hopefully jealousy will motivate him to rise to the level he has shown flashes of. I think Malik has both arm strenght and talent + wasn't Malik a finalist at the Elite 11 QB Camp?! Something tells me Malik may be more talented than EG...

You also can't teach height, which I think is his main problem in making some throws, particularly over the middle of the field. Nor can you teach leadership, which is not a trait automatically bestowed upon the best athletes. Just ask Joe Schmidt.

From the outside looking in, leadership appears to be Golson's biggest failing. I suspect that in some circles, he was already on shaky ground due to his cheating scandal. But beyond that, he simply doesn't seem to display any leadership traits. For anyone who has been involved in team sports for any amount of time, you've seen athletes like Golson. Extremely talented, but devoid of leadership. They will use their talent to win games for the team sometimes, but their efforts do not actually make the team a better team from week to week. This type of athlete can be a great compliment to an already good team with established leadership, but in football, the QB position is supposed to be a leader by default.

Golson doesn't lead, motivate or inspire. That doesn't make him a bad guy or diminish his talent in any way. It just means that he's never going to carry this team on his shoulders.

Tommy Rees was a leader. So was Brady Quinn. Jimmy Clausen was not. I don't know if Malik Zaire can be a better leader or not. That remains to be seen. But he deserves a shot to prove himself, because what's broken with Golson isn't going to be fixed by a football coach.

Well said and great examples! As a current player, I would have a hard time looking up to someone who was suspended. Do as I say and not as I do has never worked. I want a QB who gets mad and tries to redeem himself over a QB who sulks and feels sorry for himself. All the self talk from EG about how he grew up so much away from ND and is more mature certainly hasn't been on display for the past month.

 

[ickythump1225]

Wow did I miss something? Did EG rape a woman or kill a man? Because some of you are kicking a man while he's down and there's no need for that. 7 weeks ago I'm sure most of you thought EG was a Heisman contender and now he's "not a leader, he's selfish, etc." Give me a break.

What has he done that has so personally offended some of you that you're acting like jilted lovers? All he's done is play his heart out for 12 games this year. Don't give me "oh he's mentally weak," bulls**t. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again against ASU and he kept getting back up and fighting.

Yeah so he made some mistakes and we started losing oh well in the long run that stuff isn't that important. It's a game, it's an extracurricular activity. Everett Golson isn't Jameis Winston or Cam Newton. His biggest sins include cheating in college (I'm sure more than a few of you are guilty of that) and having some bad games. Grow up and stop piling on the kid.

This is like Tommy Rees all over again. The vitriol towards TR was disgusting and what makes me ever more sick is now all of a sudden people want to go back and white wash Rees' record and act like they supported him all along.

I'm not saying EG should be the starter anymore but I'll support him no matter what role the coaches choose for him so long as he wears the blue and gold. It's one thing to critique his play or say that perhaps MZ would give us a better shot but all of these personal attacks on his integrity and his leadership is little kid stuff. But then again this board lately seems to love to question the ethics, integrity, and leadership of the head coach and the starting QB.

 

[Irish Insanity]

^I'd give you every rep I have if I could.

 

[wizards8507]

Wow did I miss something? Did EG rape a woman or kill a man? Because some of you are kicking a man while he's down and there's no need for that. 7 weeks ago I'm sure most of you thought EG was a Heisman contender and now he's "not a leader, he's selfish, etc." Give me a break.

Me in the Rice thread:

1. Golson is not a great quarterback. He's a great athlete and an okay quarterback. His athleticism saved slow decision making several times. He looks uncomfortable in the pocket and tends to have happy feet.

Me in the Purdue thread:

Can we stop the Heisman bull now? I know that Everett is the least of our problems as a team but this isn't a Heisman performance.

Me in the Syracuse thread (sarcastically):

Heisman!!!

Stanford thread:

You don't get credit for a Heisman moment when you're the reason the team NEEDS the comeback in the first place.

North Carolina thread:

I hate winning this way.

After that, we started losing and everyone jumped on my bandwagon. I've been nothing if not consistent.

Wizards 85:07 says, "I am the voice calling out in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for Malik.'"

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Wow did I miss something? Did EG rape a woman or kill a man? Because some of you are kicking a man while he's down and there's no need for that. 7 weeks ago I'm sure most of you thought EG was a Heisman contender and now he's "not a leader, he's selfish, etc." Give me a break.

What has he done that has so personally offended some of you that you're acting like jilted lovers? All he's done is play his heart out for 12 games this year. Don't give me "oh he's mentally weak," bulls**t. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again against ASU and he kept getting back up and fighting.

Yeah so he made some mistakes and we started losing oh well in the long run that stuff isn't that important. It's a game, it's an extracurricular activity. Everett Golson isn't Jameis Winston or Cam Newton. His biggest sins include cheating in college (I'm sure more than a few of you are guilty of that) and having some bad games. Grow up and stop piling on the kid

This is like Tommy Rees all over again. The vitriol towards TR was disgusting and what makes me ever more sick is now all of a sudden people want to go back and white wash Rees' record and act like they supported him all along.

I'm not saying EG should be the starter anymore but I'll support him no matter what role the coaches choose for him so long as he wears the blue and gold. It's one thing to critique his play or say that perhaps MZ would give us a better shot but all of these personal attacks on his integrity and his leadership is little kid stuff. But then again this board lately seems to love to question the ethics, integrity, and leadership of the head coach and the starting QB.

Damn, Great post.

 

[Rocket89]

Me in the Rice thread:



Me in the Purdue thread:



Me in the Syracuse thread (sarcastically):



Stanford thread:



North Carolina thread:



After that, we started losing and everyone jumped on my bandwagon. I've been nothing if not consistent.

Wizards 85:07 says, "I am the voice calling out in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for Malik.'"

You were like that during the first game of the season?? That's not something to be proud of.

I shudder to think how you'll act when Golson starts all of next year.