beryirish
Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
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K
koonja
Guest
After some morning searching, I'm going to pick up either "The Name in the Wind" (Patrick Rothfuss) or "The Way of Kings" (Brandon Sanderson), or "An Ember in the Ashes" (Sabaa Tahir).
Anyone dabbled?
Anyone dabbled?
zelezo vlk
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Also LOL to Bronn being Master of Coin when he didn't even know how a loan worked until a couple seasons ago
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Did anyone think when Jon was walking to the Iron Throne entrance when Drogon appeared out of the snow think that was The Mountain coming back
Was that snow or ash, from all the fire?
notredomer23
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Sansa saying Bran's dick doesn't work anymore so the North needs to be sovereign and Bronn's brothel line were the only positives from this episode for me. It was fine until Jon stabbed Dany. Everything after that was sooooooooooooooo corny, forced, and just terrible.
Rogue219
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Love the show, but it peaked in 2016 at the end of the sixth season with Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter. Just two excellent back to back episodes to cap off a season. It was also the reveal of Jon's real parents.
The second episode of Season 8 was by far the best for me of this past season.
The second episode of Season 8 was by far the best for me of this past season.
BleedBlueGold
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The leaked ending that I saw was spot on. Honestly, I'm glad I saw it before I watched. It allowed me to not be so emotionally invested because I was annoyed from the get go.
Gripes:
Overall, I'm just glad it's over. I found enough closure in this episode to feel satisfied and move on. I just hope B&W don't have a roll in any of the spinoffs.
Gripes:
- Bran as King. For awhile now, Bran wasn't Bran. He was the 3ER. Suddenly, because it's convenient, he's Bran again? They botched his arc so badly.
- Jon as a prisoner. They spent so much time building up Jon's true lineage only to purposely turn him into a second rate character. Jon's a Targ. He's the true heir. He's a Mad Queen Slayer. Yet he's taken as a prisoner and exiled by his own damn family to the North. Why? Because Greyworm is upset? Give me a break.
- Tyrion's second monologue should've belonged to Jon. See above. Jon as a prisoner made no sense to me. Given who he really is, why wasn't he at the meeting of the 7 Kingdoms? Why didn't the scene focus on him being the rightful heir, not wanting it, forcing a vote, and voluntarily going North where he's always belonged? The true King had no say in any of what went down and I found that lame as hell.
Overall, I'm just glad it's over. I found enough closure in this episode to feel satisfied and move on. I just hope B&W don't have a roll in any of the spinoffs.
beryirish
Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
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It looked white more so than grayish so i thought it was Winter/snow.
BleedBlueGold
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My assumption was ash. Does it snow in Kings Landing?
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Questions that I will wonder about, based on the finale:
1. What did Bran mean when he said, "Why do you think I came all this way?" Was that the 3ER saying that he was fulfilling a destiny he saw for himself, reigning over the land and using his powers to maintain a new peace? Or was that just Bran trying to humanize himself for everyone amidst the biggest decision any of them would ever be a part of? Could Bran actually see the future??
2. I suspect that the end was meant to show that the Night's Watch isn't actually a thing anymore, and the lords all agreed to it as a 'wink-wink-nudge-nudge' to appease everyone in getting Jon out of the spotlight... but where were they all going? Jon helping the Wildlings resettle, and then living with them in remembrance of the life he found, which was the most peace he had known before returning to the Wall?
3. I liked the Small Council getting right to work... I also like that Bran doesn't really need it, since he is all-seeing, but he's gonna let them do their thing while he worries about big-picture stuff, like finding Drogon. After they got the report on Drogon's whereabouts being unknown, and Bran said "maybe I can find him," I really thought the episode was going to end with Bran warging into Drogon, and we would see Drogon flying over the ruins of Valyria or something with dragon eggs starting to wiggle or crack. My question: Where would Drogon take Dany's body? (My money would be on the hilltop where he took her after he rescued her from the fighting pits, before she was found by the Dothraki horde, but idk)
4. WHAT THE FUCK WERE THE FACELESS MEN TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH??? WHY HAD JAQEN ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE IMPRISONED IN KING'S LANDING???
5. WHAT DID VARYS HEAR FROM THE VOICE OF THE GREAT OTHER WHEN HIS DICK AND BALLS WERE BEING BURNT IN THE BLUE FIRE OF THE EVIL MAGICIAN THAT CASTRATED HIM???
1. What did Bran mean when he said, "Why do you think I came all this way?" Was that the 3ER saying that he was fulfilling a destiny he saw for himself, reigning over the land and using his powers to maintain a new peace? Or was that just Bran trying to humanize himself for everyone amidst the biggest decision any of them would ever be a part of? Could Bran actually see the future??
2. I suspect that the end was meant to show that the Night's Watch isn't actually a thing anymore, and the lords all agreed to it as a 'wink-wink-nudge-nudge' to appease everyone in getting Jon out of the spotlight... but where were they all going? Jon helping the Wildlings resettle, and then living with them in remembrance of the life he found, which was the most peace he had known before returning to the Wall?
3. I liked the Small Council getting right to work... I also like that Bran doesn't really need it, since he is all-seeing, but he's gonna let them do their thing while he worries about big-picture stuff, like finding Drogon. After they got the report on Drogon's whereabouts being unknown, and Bran said "maybe I can find him," I really thought the episode was going to end with Bran warging into Drogon, and we would see Drogon flying over the ruins of Valyria or something with dragon eggs starting to wiggle or crack. My question: Where would Drogon take Dany's body? (My money would be on the hilltop where he took her after he rescued her from the fighting pits, before she was found by the Dothraki horde, but idk)
4. WHAT THE FUCK WERE THE FACELESS MEN TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH??? WHY HAD JAQEN ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE IMPRISONED IN KING'S LANDING???
5. WHAT DID VARYS HEAR FROM THE VOICE OF THE GREAT OTHER WHEN HIS DICK AND BALLS WERE BEING BURNT IN THE BLUE FIRE OF THE EVIL MAGICIAN THAT CASTRATED HIM???
Emcee77
latress on the men-jay
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I hated it. I've TRIED, I really have, to see things from D&D's point of view, to recognize how difficult the task is given the tangled mess that GRRM left them in, and just enjoy the work for what it is without expecting every episode be at Tolkien or other classic-epic levels. But the last couple of episodes were so subpar that I just couldn't enjoy them. So many stark (npi) Chekhov's gun problems. Ugh. Just so not good.
gkIrish
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I thought it was so bad. The whole council scene was just absurd. Grey Worm had no problem killing anyone and everyone the last 3 episodes but kept Tyrion and Jon alive for what reason? His queen was just murdered and that's when he decides to start acting cool-headed?
Within 30 actual seconds he went from saying Jon and Tyrion must die to "whatever you lords that I literally DGAF about decide is cool with me." Tyrion is IN CHAINS and is basically running the show as if he organized the entire council.
The Bran thing was so forced and made no actual sense from a political perspective. Arya is Christopher Columbus now?
The only thing I liked was Sansa/Queen of the North and Jon's ending.
Within 30 actual seconds he went from saying Jon and Tyrion must die to "whatever you lords that I literally DGAF about decide is cool with me." Tyrion is IN CHAINS and is basically running the show as if he organized the entire council.
The Bran thing was so forced and made no actual sense from a political perspective. Arya is Christopher Columbus now?
The only thing I liked was Sansa/Queen of the North and Jon's ending.
ACamp1900
Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
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So Jon saves basically everyone, is the rightful heir, finally does something right and gets exiled by his own family for it?? Not having watched that sounds cray... did they explain this better in episode?? Sansa ruling KL while Jon rules the North or vice versa would have been better... So the bitter sweet is the Starks rule but will die off as Jon is basically out and Bran can't have kids??
BleedBlueGold
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Jon being exiled by Sansa/Bran was their way of saving him from getting killed by Greyworm and by saving an inevitable battle between Dany's Army vs Everyone Else.
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I've seen that a lot of people are upset that things tied up too nicely for the main characters. They expected more of a bleak, sad ending based on what GRRM has promised, and based on what the show had been.
But if the characters got decent endings, weren't they kind of earned? Wouldn't that kind of be a reasonable payoff, based on all the heartache and sorrow and bullshit that they had experienced? These people were legitimately killed, tortured, left for dead, lost everything, suffered, watched their loved ones die, etc. etc.
The show was famous for not holding back, and keeping things "real." Anyone could die, and happy endings weren't in the cards. But in the end, it's still a fantasy story. I think the endings were appropriate. They seem "rosy," but they really aren't when you consider what they all went through to get there. That shit was pretty dark, if you really think about the things that got them to where they are.
Jon is King Beyond the Wall, in a sense, which is a happy ending for him. He's with Ghost and Tormund, and he gets to live in the one place where he lived out true happiness for just a brief time, before his life went back to being hell.
- Bastard son, hated by his stepmother through no fault of his own
- Joins the NW out of a sense of honor, trying to make his pops proud
- Treated like shit for being a good dude
- Finds happiness with a wildling woman, has to give it up
- Watches his first love die
- Betrayed by one group for being a legitimately good person and helping another group
- Literally dies
- Falls in love with his aunt; incest ensues
- His love for a woman literally saves the world
- Realizes his aunt is crazy, but still loves her
- Has to kill the second woman he's ever loved
Arya gets to explore the west, and that's appropriate, too. Ned knew from the first episode that she was different, and that a lady's life would never be in store. Now she gets to live out the very opposite of a lady's life exploring uncharted territory. She's been trained in skills that will help her survive if things get bad. She earned it.
- Betrayed by her own sister in favor of a right proper shithead
- She was helpless as her father, one of only two people who truly attempted to understand her, got beheaded
- Forced to live as "no one" from the start
- Fate forces her away from every individual she connects with
- Becomes a badass assassin, because that's really her only option
- Kills the Night King, feels empty
- Offered a place at the side of the man she loves, but she knows it's not for her
- Watches a crazy lady burn innocent people before her very eyes
Sansa gets to be Queen in the North, putting all of the lessons she's learned from Cersei and Littlefinger to use, but probably without the inherent cruelty (maybe?)
- Loved and promised to a prince that was actually a douche, confusing her adolescent mind in a cruel way
- Held hostage by the worst family in the world
- Watches her father get beheaded after having convinced him to go against his own honor
- Held hostage and now literally abused by the worst family in the world
- Framed for murder, even though she totally would have been right to commit the crime
- Rescued by a creepy dude who wants to bang her because he had an unhealthy obsession with her mom
- Given as a bargaining chip to a psychopath
- Raped and tortured by said psychopath
- Saves the north, and by extension the world, probably, but still doesn't get props
- Brother won't listen to her, even though she's 100% right about Dany
- Probably the most capable politician in the land, but her brother is given the power she obviously wanted
Bran gets to be Lord of the Six Kingdoms, which was both earned AND appropriate, even by GRRM's own buildup in the books
- Innocent child, never hurt nobody, thrown from a window and crippled for seeing the Lannisters being gross
- Targeted for murder because of what he saw, even though he's not a threat and doesn't remember it
- Rules Winterfell after his older brother leaves, only to have to give it to a traitor
- Watches his Maester die
- Has to send poor innocent Hodor to his death
- Watches his direwolf die
- Has to eat Jojen paste
- Has the weight of all of history thrust upon his shoulders
- GETS SLANDERED BY ALL OF YOU, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN PUTTING EVERYONE IN THE EXACT PLACES THEY NEEDED TO BE TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM BOTH DEATH INCARNATE, AND A CRAZY BITCH WITH A DRAGON.
But if the characters got decent endings, weren't they kind of earned? Wouldn't that kind of be a reasonable payoff, based on all the heartache and sorrow and bullshit that they had experienced? These people were legitimately killed, tortured, left for dead, lost everything, suffered, watched their loved ones die, etc. etc.
The show was famous for not holding back, and keeping things "real." Anyone could die, and happy endings weren't in the cards. But in the end, it's still a fantasy story. I think the endings were appropriate. They seem "rosy," but they really aren't when you consider what they all went through to get there. That shit was pretty dark, if you really think about the things that got them to where they are.
Jon is King Beyond the Wall, in a sense, which is a happy ending for him. He's with Ghost and Tormund, and he gets to live in the one place where he lived out true happiness for just a brief time, before his life went back to being hell.
- Bastard son, hated by his stepmother through no fault of his own
- Joins the NW out of a sense of honor, trying to make his pops proud
- Treated like shit for being a good dude
- Finds happiness with a wildling woman, has to give it up
- Watches his first love die
- Betrayed by one group for being a legitimately good person and helping another group
- Literally dies
- Falls in love with his aunt; incest ensues
- His love for a woman literally saves the world
- Realizes his aunt is crazy, but still loves her
- Has to kill the second woman he's ever loved
Arya gets to explore the west, and that's appropriate, too. Ned knew from the first episode that she was different, and that a lady's life would never be in store. Now she gets to live out the very opposite of a lady's life exploring uncharted territory. She's been trained in skills that will help her survive if things get bad. She earned it.
- Betrayed by her own sister in favor of a right proper shithead
- She was helpless as her father, one of only two people who truly attempted to understand her, got beheaded
- Forced to live as "no one" from the start
- Fate forces her away from every individual she connects with
- Becomes a badass assassin, because that's really her only option
- Kills the Night King, feels empty
- Offered a place at the side of the man she loves, but she knows it's not for her
- Watches a crazy lady burn innocent people before her very eyes
Sansa gets to be Queen in the North, putting all of the lessons she's learned from Cersei and Littlefinger to use, but probably without the inherent cruelty (maybe?)
- Loved and promised to a prince that was actually a douche, confusing her adolescent mind in a cruel way
- Held hostage by the worst family in the world
- Watches her father get beheaded after having convinced him to go against his own honor
- Held hostage and now literally abused by the worst family in the world
- Framed for murder, even though she totally would have been right to commit the crime
- Rescued by a creepy dude who wants to bang her because he had an unhealthy obsession with her mom
- Given as a bargaining chip to a psychopath
- Raped and tortured by said psychopath
- Saves the north, and by extension the world, probably, but still doesn't get props
- Brother won't listen to her, even though she's 100% right about Dany
- Probably the most capable politician in the land, but her brother is given the power she obviously wanted
Bran gets to be Lord of the Six Kingdoms, which was both earned AND appropriate, even by GRRM's own buildup in the books
- Innocent child, never hurt nobody, thrown from a window and crippled for seeing the Lannisters being gross
- Targeted for murder because of what he saw, even though he's not a threat and doesn't remember it
- Rules Winterfell after his older brother leaves, only to have to give it to a traitor
- Watches his Maester die
- Has to send poor innocent Hodor to his death
- Watches his direwolf die
- Has to eat Jojen paste
- Has the weight of all of history thrust upon his shoulders
- GETS SLANDERED BY ALL OF YOU, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN PUTTING EVERYONE IN THE EXACT PLACES THEY NEEDED TO BE TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM BOTH DEATH INCARNATE, AND A CRAZY BITCH WITH A DRAGON.
ACamp1900
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BleedBlueGold
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Disagree on Bran. Dude didn't want to be Lord of Winterfell. He "doesn't want anymore." Then turns around and says, Yea gimme that crown boi, down in Kings Landing. SO STUPID.
BleedBlueGold
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Also, when Tyrion discovers Jamie and Cersei, I thought it would've been a nice touch for her to still be barely alive and Tyrion finish her off.
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lol
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I can't rep ya right now Whiskey but that's hilarious.
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Most concise and accurate criticism of the show I've seen yet. For those unfamiliar with the premise.
ACamp1900
Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
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You could prob make a case that ultimately there were more Chekhov's gun moments in the story than those that actually panned out...
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Chekhov's Armory.