Game of Thrones

[IrishLion]

Just because they built to something doesn't mean it sucks less. The show is in full on plot armor cliche ending mode and it blows. Hopefully someday we can actually get TWOW and ADOS and get a real compelling end to the series.

And beyond just the fact that it was Arya who killed the NK which ultimately I could live with. How can anyone watch that last scene and not think it was the lamest shit ever? One person seeks past 100 wights and 20 white walkers and just stabs the main villain of the whole series and that's it? We watched 8 seasons for that?

As opposed to a noble hand-to-hand battle between the NK and a worthy hero?

Game of Thrones has always been about subverting expectations. Now that they've gone back to subverting expectations, people are still mad and disappointed because all that buildup ended so quickly lol.

Would you have been satisfied with Jon vs NK 1-on-1? I would have, but I also would have recognized the continuation of D&D turning the show into a fairy tale (still kind of bummed that we didn't lose another main character or two during the battle). But at least Arya knifing him was unpredictable (at least until Melisandre recalled Syrio's words).

But people don't want *that* kind of unpredictable, they want *this* kind of unpredictable, so on and so forth.

 

[beryirish]

Just because they built to something doesn't mean it sucks less. The show is in full on plot armor cliche ending mode and it blows. Hopefully someday we can actually get TWOW and ADOS and get a real compelling end to the series.

And beyond just the fact that it was Arya who killed the NK which ultimately I could live with. How can anyone watch that last scene and not think it was the lamest shit ever? One person seeks past 100 wights and 20 white walkers and just stabs the main villain of the whole series and that's it? We watched 8 seasons for that?

I've watched 8 seasons to see who's going to sit on the Iron Throne

 

[IrishLion]

I've watched 8 seasons to see who's going to sit on the Iron Throne

I've watched 8 season to see them deal with the Northern Threat, and then deal with the Southern Threat after that.

It's logical.

 

[GATTACA!]

I feel like the demise of the NK is one of the big outline points that GRRM would give to the show runners...

You don't think that ordeal came from GRRM himself?

The Night King isn't even a character in the books. That was completely a D&D choice. As if you couldn't tell based on how poorly it was written.

 

[ACamp1900]

It feels to me like most people just wanted a bit more answers and or depth to the entire WW storyline before it just,... ended... I don't get much of 'Arya doing it was stupid.' Feels like Snoke 2.0 going off what I have heard...

 

[IrishLion]

The Night King isn't even a character in the books. That was completely a D&D choice. As if you couldn't tell based on how poorly it was written.

Not yet.

GRRM won't answer questions about the Night's King in the books, which leads me to think that he's revealed in tWoW.

 

[ACamp1900]

Also the same spot where Bran gave Catspaw to Arya.

I've watched 8 season to see them deal with the Northern Threat, and then deal with the Southern Threat after that.

It's logical.

Y'all know you have watched all this for the boobies...

 

[GATTACA!]

As opposed to a noble hand-to-hand battle between the NK and a worthy hero?

Game of Thrones has always been about subverting expectations. Now that they've gone back to subverting expectations, people are still mad and disappointed because all that buildup ended so quickly lol.

Would you have been satisfied with Jon vs NK 1-on-1? I would have, but I also would have recognized the continuation of D&D turning the show into a fairy tale (still kind of bummed that we didn't lose another main character or two during the battle). But at least Arya knifing him was unpredictable (at least until Melisandre recalled Syrio's words).

But people don't want *that* kind of unpredictable, they want *this* kind of unpredictable, so on and so forth.

I would be happy with anything that didn't involve the big bad guy doing a slow bond villain esque walk toward Bran, giving our plucky hero just enough time to sneak past 100 people to stab him in the nick of time.

That's not a subversion that's just crap writing. It's cliche and doesn't match the level of threat this villain we've been building to for 8 seasons deserves.

How many times have we been told winter is coming?

Winter is coming
Winter is coming
Winter is coming

Ooop never mind Arya killed him. Everythings back to normal.

 

[GATTACA!]

I've watched 8 seasons to see who's going to sit on the Iron Throne

Then you've missed the point. Jon has been trying to tell everyone, all of the titles and crowns are pointless. The real threat is north.

Except D&D are too dumb to write a cohesive end to a masterpiece. They're hacks.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I feel like the demise of the NK is one of the big outline points that GRRM would give to the show runners...

You don't think that ordeal came from GRRM himself?

Absolutely not. I'm 95% sure that GRRM only gave them a very rough outline of where he intended things to finish. Specific details like who precisely kills the Night King, etc. seem not to have been included. Which is why Benioff and Weiss are just making most of this up as they go.

The problem with Arya killing the NK isn't that she's not "powerful" enough. At this point in the story, there are several protagonists that could make the grade on that front: Jon is a fated dragon-riding prince with a magic sword; Bran is time-traveling psychic; Arya is a master assassin, etc. But as far as the books are concerned, the NK just isn't the sort of problem she's meant to solve.

She can infiltrate, deceive and assassinate better than anyone. GRRM focuses on her "list" (which includes only normal human beings that have wronged her), both as a way to show how her initial drive for vengeance isn't sustainable (most of the people on her list are already dead by the time she returns to Westeros), and to emphasize her eventual impact on the Game of Thrones. But she's got no connection to the supernatural evil that the NK represents, and her skillset doesn't imply she'll be the one to defeat him.

It'd be like if Sauron was killed by Legolas shooting an arrow into the giant flaming eye at some point. Legolas is easily the most skilled and badass fighter in the Fellowship, but Sauron's just not the type of enemy that can be defeated like that. As far as fantasy narrative goes, you can't give him that ending without elevating Legolas far above what he was in the books, or diminishing Sauron significantly.

GRRM knows that, so I very much doubt Arya will be the one to kill the NK in the books. Benioff and Weiss don't know that, though, so they just picked the Westerosi Avenger that seemed most appropriate to them. GRRM bears much of the blame for this since the showrunners shouldn't have to be filling in his blanks. But B & W are not up to the task of finishing this story satisfactorily.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Just because they built to something doesn't mean it sucks less. The show is in full on plot armor cliche ending mode and it blows. Hopefully someday we can actually get TWOW and ADOS and get a real compelling end to the series.

And beyond just the fact that it was Arya who killed the NK which ultimately I could live with. How can anyone watch that last scene and not think it was the lamest shit ever? One person seeks past 100 wights and 20 white walkers and just stabs the main villain of the whole series and that's it? We watched 8 seasons for that?

Yes. Deal with it.

Arya is the baddest of asses. She's badder than the night king. She can kill everyone/anyone when she wants. #womynz #mybitchbad

 

[Luckylucci]

I would be happy with anything that didn't involve the big bad guy doing a slow bond villain esque walk toward Bran, giving our plucky hero just enough time to sneak past 100 people to stab him in the nick of time.

That's not a subversion that's just crap writing. It's cliche and doesn't match the level of threat this villain we've been building to for 8 seasons deserves.

How many times have we been told winter is coming?

Winter is coming
Winter is coming
Winter is coming

Ooop never mind Arya killed him. Everythings back to normal.

Well, I'm not sure that's accurate. I just don't think they covered the loss of life, destruction of Winterfell, etc. in this episode. That probably comes next week.

 

[gkIrish]

Absolutely not. I'm 95% sure that GRRM only gave them a very rough outline of where he intended things to finish. Specific details like who precisely kills the Night King, etc. seem not to have been included. Which is why Benioff and Weiss are just making most of this up as they go.

The problem with Arya killing the NK isn't that she's not "powerful" enough. At this point in the story, there are several protagonists that could make the grade on that front: Jon is a fated dragon-riding prince with a magic sword; Bran is time-traveling psychic; Arya is a master assassin, etc. But as far as the books are concerned, the NK just isn't the sort of problem she's meant to solve.

She can infiltrate, deceive and assassinate better than anyone. GRRM focuses on her "list" (which includes only normal human beings that have wronged her), both as a way to show how her initial drive for vengeance isn't sustainable (most of the people on her list are already dead by the time she returns to Westeros), and to emphasize her eventual impact on the Game of Thrones. But she's got no connection to the supernatural evil that the NK represents, and her skillset doesn't imply she'll be the one to defeat him.

It'd be like if Sauron was killed by Legolas shooting an arrow into the giant flaming eye at some point. Legolas is easily the most skilled and badass fighter in the Fellowship, but Sauron's just not the type of enemy that can be defeated like that. As far as fantasy narrative goes, you can't give him that ending without elevating Legolas far above what he was in the books, or diminishing Sauron significantly.

GRRM knows that, so I very much doubt Arya will be the one to kill the NK in the books. Benioff and Weiss don't know that, though, so they just picked the Westerosi Avenger that seemed most appropriate to them. GRRM bears much of the blame for this since the showrunners shouldn't have to be filling in his blanks. But B & W are not up to the task of finishing this story satisfactorily.

This is what I was trying to say earlier but I'm not as well-spoken as Whiskey. Arya is certainly capable, but it didn't make sense.

 

[beryirish]

Then you've missed the point. Jon has been trying to tell everyone, all of the titles and crowns are pointless. The real threat is north.

Except D&D are too dumb to write a cohesive end to a masterpiece. They're hacks.

Not missing the point. Just not putting the same point at the top of my viewing priority. The real point is my enjoyment of the series. And it has been enjoyable. Just because Jon wants everyone to know crowns are pointless and the threat is the end of humanity doesn't mean it's a point I have to have #1 on my care list.

It's a point I'm really intrigued by and want to know more about it but it's not going to ruin my enjoyment for the show since it happened before the south. 100% honesty I'm surprised how fast the NK went to shards but I've acknowledged the expectation that time is now limited and things need to wrap up fast. Even if it's a huge moment - the NK is dead - still...wrap it up. Journey south now.

It may be poorly written in the eyes of expert critics but for the average Joe I say thank you Maximus, I'm entertained.

 

[wizards8507]

This is what I was trying to say earlier but I'm not as well-spoken as Whiskey. Arya is certainly capable, but it didn't make sense.

TFW Wiz has been getting dunked on for 14 hours but then Whiskey shows up and agrees with him.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Absolutely not. I'm 95% sure that GRRM only gave them a very rough outline of where he intended things to finish. Specific details like who precisely kills the Night King, etc. seem not to have been included. Which is why Benioff and Weiss are just making most of this up as they go.

The problem with Arya killing the NK isn't that she's not "powerful" enough. At this point in the story, there are several protagonists that could make the grade on that front: Jon is a fated dragon-riding prince with a magic sword; Bran is time-traveling psychic; Arya is a master assassin, etc. But as far as the books are concerned, the NK just isn't the sort of problem she's meant to solve.

He was the "god of Death". She is exactly the person. Lol.

 

[IrishLion]

Y'all know you have watched all this for the boobies...

I started watching for the boobies.

I stuck around for the surprising amount of bush.

It's cliche and doesn't match the level of threat this villain we've been building to for 8 seasons deserves.

I guess this is the essence of our disagreement... I don't mind it, because the NK has never shown to be a 'close' threat. Every time he's fucked things up for our heroes, he's been doing it at a distance, where he's not in danger.

He refuses to expose himself out of hubris and/or intelligence. The moment he DOES expose himself, that same hubris and intelligence are his undoing.

Everyone expected it to be Jon or Jaime or Dany on a dragon, killing him in battle, or maybe catching him off guard with their "trap"... it makes sense to me, based on his lack of exposure, that his undoing would be unconventional.

 

[GATTACA!]

Yes. Deal with it.

Arya is the baddest of asses. She's badder than the night king. She can kill everyone/anyone when she wants. #womynz #mybitchbad

Yaaaaas Queen slay #BossBitch

 

[IrishLion]

Then you've missed the point. Jon has been trying to tell everyone, all of the titles and crowns are pointless. The real threat is north.

Except D&D are too dumb to write a cohesive end to a masterpiece. They're hacks.

I disagree with this, too lol.

Jon and Dany are the main characters of ASoIaF.

Jon's job is to save the world from the ice zombies. That's his arc, and always has been.

Dany's job is to win the throne. That's her arc, and always has been.

How those two stories play off of one another is what the show is about. Dany agrees to help the North if Jon will bend the knee and help her, in turn. The plot-thickening element is the reveal of Jon as Aegon. Throw that into the mix for some spicy intrigue once the Ice King is dead.

The threat in the North is real, and very important! But that doesn't mean the battle of the throne isn't also still important to the characters.

 

[beryirish]

For fun quick reference.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EqH7028hvlM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

this crossed my mind...same slow arrogant pause stare down with the original 3ER...look away if you don't want to see Summer bite it.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pfXk6fj_CvQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[wizards8507]

I disagree with this, too lol.

Jon and Dany are the main characters of ASoIaF.

Jon's job is to save the world from the ice zombies. That's his arc, and always has been.

Dany's job is to win the throne. That's her arc, and always has been.

How those two stories play off of one another is what the show is about. Dany agrees to help the North if Jon will bend the knee and help her, in turn. The plot-thickening element is the reveal of Jon as Aegon. Throw that into the mix for some spicy intrigue once the Ice King is dead.

The threat in the North is real, and very important! But that doesn't mean the battle of the throne isn't also still important to the characters.

No. No, no, no, no, no.

Any character, viewer, or showrunner who things the goddamn Iron Throne is significant in any way whatsoever is a simpleton. That's why we connect with Jon and Sam. They're the only ones who are wise to the metagame, as we in the audience are meant to be. If (book)Dany has any hope of being a co-hero with Jon, it'll be by uniting with him against the ultimate threat and sacrificing herself in the process. Cersei keeps the throne (but loses the North to Sansa) by simply outlasting everyone else.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

He was the "god of Death". She is exactly the person. Lol.

Have you read the books? The last four pages are full of absolutely garbage theories that shownlies are certain make total sense. I won't waste my time here if you're in the latter category.

Briefly: There are seven Starks at the beginning of the series; one for each aspect of the divine in the Faith of the Seven. Arya lines up with the Stranger, which is partly why she ends up training as a Faceless Man. But there's nothing to indicate that the Faith of the Seven has any reality behind it.

The only gods that GRRM gives supernatural reality to are the pagan ones: Rhllor, the god of light, and "The Great Other", who is presumably the god of death/darkness. Melisandre believes that the Night King is a servant of The Great Other, but he isn't The Great Other incarnate.

"Arya has some symbolic connection to the Stranger in an apparently false religion. THEREFORE, she must be fated to personally assassinate the Night King..." is basic AF.

Edit: To be fair, Benioff and Weiss are also basic AF, so you may be right as far as the show is concerned. But this series followed the books quite closely for the first 5 seasons, and only recently turned into an adaptation loosely based on them, so I think the readers are justified in being unhappy.

 

[IrishLion]

No. No, no, no, no, no.

Any character, viewer, or showrunner who things the goddamn Iron Throne is significant in any way whatsoever is a simpleton. That's why we connect with Jon and Sam. They're the only ones who are wise to the metagame, as we in the audience are meant to be. If (book)Dany has any hope of being a co-hero with Jon, it'll be by uniting with him against the ultimate threat and sacrificing herself in the process. Cersei keeps the throne (but loses the North to Sansa) by simply outlasting everyone else.

I'm no simpleton you Mickey Mouse Ear-wearing bitch*.

I just think you are disregarding what has literally been talked about the entire time. There have been two main story arcs... Jon and Dany. It's okay for both of those arcs to get resolutions while converging and creating further issues.


*love you

 

[wizards8507]

I'm no simpleton you Mickey Mouse Ear-wearing bitch*.

I just think you are disregarding what has literally been talked about the entire time. There have been two main story arcs... Jon and Dany. It's okay for both of those arcs to get resolutions while converging and creating further issues.

*love you

Joke's on you. My head is too big to fit in a Mickey ear hat. So suck it.

 

[Bluto]

I agree with Whiskey and Wiz. Should have reversed the story arc and had Danny nuke King’s landing upon reaching Westeros, which begins her descent into madness. Jon offs her as a result, that sets up final confrontation against the army of the dead.

 

[beryirish]

No. No, no, no, no, no.

Any character, viewer, or showrunner who things the goddamn Iron Throne is significant in any way whatsoever is a simpleton. That's why we connect with Jon and Sam. They're the only ones who are wise to the metagame, as we in the audience are meant to be. If (book)Dany has any hope of being a co-hero with Jon, it'll be by uniting with him against the ultimate threat and sacrificing herself in the process. Cersei keeps the throne (but loses the North to Sansa) by simply outlasting everyone else.

Come now.

Then leave the show watching to us simpleton's and we'll leave the book reading to you.

 

[IrishLion]

I agree with Whiskey and Wiz. Should have reversed the story arc and had Danny nuke King’s landing upon reaching Westeros, which begins her descent into madness. Jon offs her as a result, that sets up final confrontation against the army of the dead.

Dany could totally still go off the rails and nuke King's Landing.

There is compelling evidence that the show is trying to make her look like a potential 'Mad Queen' while giving ACTUAL evidence that she is definitely NOT... but I'm almost banking on her fucking up and killing a bunch of innocent folks.

Jaime kills Cersei in the flames and the confusion while Jon kills Euron, and Arya does something cool again, and Tyrion shakes his head in shame at watching it all unfold. Varys dies at the hands of Qyburn's little birds, while Sam kills Qyburn for being an affront to the Maesters. Clegane overcomes his fear of fire to kill the UnGregor amidst the burning of the city.

It can all still go down.

 

[Bluto]

Dany could totally still go off the rails and nuke King's Landing.

There is compelling evidence that the show is trying to make her look like a potential 'Mad Queen' while giving ACTUAL evidence that she is definitely NOT... but I'm almost banking on her fucking up and killing a bunch of innocent folks.

Jaime kills Cersei in the flames and the confusion while Jon kills Euron, and Arya does something cool again, and Tyrion shakes his head in shame at watching it all unfold. Varys dies at the hands of Qyburn's little birds, while Sam kills Qyburn for being an affront to the Maesters. Clegane overcomes his fear of fire to kill the UnGregor amidst the burning of the city.

It can all still go down.

Sure. I just think the idea of humanity loosing all vestiges of it’s humanity prior to a battle with “evil” would be a more interesting and compelling story.

 

[greyhammer90]

TFW Wiz has been getting dunked on for 14 hours but then Whiskey shows up and agrees with him.

 

[ACamp1900]

Joke's on you. My head is too big to fit in a Mickey ear hat. So suck it.

Every time I get on Soarin and the saftey video shows the fat, bald guy being forced to take the Mickey ears off I think of you........