ESPN

[NorthDakota]

Just read this Outside the Lines on the Kidnapping and torture of two University of Rochester students/player. Pretty intense, crazy read! I don't remember hearing about this anywhere.

University of Rochester football player kidnapped, tortured for 40 hours

How bizarre

 

[dublinirish]

https://www.streamingobserver.com/consumers-pay-4-5-billion-a-year-for-espn-despite-not-wanting-it/

 

[wizards8507]

https://www.streamingobserver.com/consumers-pay-4-5-billion-a-year-for-espn-despite-not-wanting-it/

Lots of fake news in that article. Beware of "estimates."

 

[phgreek]

With that said Manfred is focused on all the wrong stuff...

-Replay is horrible right now, it takes WAY TOO LONG and often gets the call wrong any damn way.
-the INT walks thing was so stupid
- If you really want to make the game move faster then limit the amount the pitcher and batter can leave the mound and or batter's box.. what happened here is the Tony La Russa style of slowing everything down, it was effective but became the norm rather than the rule. don't let the batter leave the box during an at bat, how about that... Don't let the pitcher walk around the mound in between every pitch... to me this solves just about every issue the detractors complain about with baseball...

but first we have to focus on important stuff, like INT walks and what to do with the all star game.

Just saw this...I'm a lifelong baseball guy. So here is what I've seen over the last 10 years or so. Kids like baseball...if someone introduces them to the game. But fewer and fewer have that happen. So the largest part of the next generation don't get baseball...and as presented, there is nothing inherently exciting about baseball to watch. If you haven't played, or had someone teach you the game, watching it isn't all that exciting.

Watch out for Lacrosse...the action is there, some hitting is there, skill is required...don't need ice....

 

[dublinirish]

https://theringer.com/jamie-horowitz-fired-at-fox-sports-amid-scandal-c41593b2df94

Horowitz was responsible for the large round of layoffs at Fox last week and for moving their online presence to be move video content orientated.

 

[GowerND11]

Just saw this...I'm a lifelong baseball guy. So here is what I've seen over the last 10 years or so. Kids like baseball...if someone introduces them to the game. But fewer and fewer have that happen. So the largest part of the next generation don't get baseball...and as presented, there is nothing inherently exciting about baseball to watch. If you haven't played, or had someone teach you the game, watching it isn't all that exciting.

Watch out for Lacrosse...the action is there, some hitting is there, skill is required...don't need ice....

I agree about kids liking it. My basketball players I coach are in love with baseball, yet the local Little League only fields 3 teams. It's a problem all over the county, with towns having to combine to make All-Star teams. One problem I see is too many parents are beginning specializing their kid early for one sport. The second problem is, when parents see other parents specializing their kid in, say, baseball, they specialize in basketball (or soccer, or football) so the kid can see playing time. Too many parents are concerned with their kid making the All-Star team, or being on the "best team" in town/area, that too many fringe athletes, or may just be very good if they gave it a shot, or grow, don't play a sport.

This is the biggest reason, in my unscientific study, why we are seeing less and less kids coming out for Little League, Midget football, and Biddy basketball. Parents only want their son/daughter to be a starter or star.

Also cost is a major problem these days. My 6 year old cousin in tee ball HAD to buy a bat AND a helmet. There are no more team bats or helmets. Each and every player must have both or they can't play. Who the hell needs a brand new bat in tee ball?!?! Plus every team these days needs brand new jerseys each and every year with the kids' names on the back so it's super cool. No more reusing team jerseys every year for x amount of years.

 

[dublinirish]

i think a problem also is a lot of sports are going from "seasonal" to year round. Take soccer for instance, because kids play on club/travel teams as well as school teams their calendar is pretty much taken up for the whole year (winter conditioning/indoor soccer). there simply isn't time for them to diversify if they want to reach the top levels of the game

 

[GowerND11]

i think a problem also is a lot of sports are going from "seasonal" to year round. Take soccer for instance, because kids play on club/travel teams as well as school teams their calendar is pretty much taken up for the whole year (winter conditioning/indoor soccer). there simply isn't time for them to diversify if they want to reach the top levels of the game

True. But one risk is burn out with kids. We see so many worries about arm injuries in pitchers, yet these kids are on the town team, the high school team, and a travel team. Pitch counts don't roll over in between them, and kids are throwing innings that major leaguers don't throw. Add to that, many sports help others. I've always been a big believer in getting better through other sports. Unfortunately, that isn't the case, as too many kids/parents want to be the best at one individual sport, even at the cost of a severe injury, or simply realizing too late, that they aren't.

Again, I also believe many kids give up a sport too early because of those others that specialize year round. Sometimes it takes a late development for a kid to finally realize his/her potential in a sport, but if they give up before hand, it's moot.

 

[dublinirish]

True. But one risk is burn out with kids. We see so many worries about arm injuries in pitchers, yet these kids are on the town team, the high school team, and a travel team. Pitch counts don't roll over in between them, and kids are throwing innings that major leaguers don't throw. Add to that, many sports help others. I've always been a big believer in getting better through other sports. Unfortunately, that isn't the case, as too many kids/parents want to be the best at one individual sport, even at the cost of a severe injury, or simply realizing too late, that they aren't.

Again, I also believe many kids give up a sport too early because of those others that specialize year round. Sometimes it takes a late development for a kid to finally realize his/her potential in a sport, but if they give up before hand, it's moot.

for sure, i played tons of sports when i was a kid and i think it was normal that at the end of each season i was always itching to transition onto the next sport. playing the same sport from early age exclusively sounds pretty miserable to me.

 

[GowerND11]

for sure, i played tons of sports when i was a kid and i think it was normal that at the end of each season i was always itching to transition onto the next sport. playing the same sport from early age exclusively sounds pretty miserable to me.

While I don't know much about the daily life inside a football (really wanted to say soccer haha) academy, it just sounds so hard, personally, to be interested in the same sport only since I'm 8.

 

[dublinirish]

While I don't know much about the daily life inside a football (really wanted to say soccer haha) academy, it just sounds so hard, personally, to be interested in the same sport only since I'm 8.

i just don't think its natural for a young kid to have that sole focus on one sport. It's 100% parent driven i reckon.

 

[Irish#1]

I agree about kids liking it. My basketball players I coach are in love with baseball, yet the local Little League only fields 3 teams. It's a problem all over the county, with towns having to combine to make All-Star teams. One problem I see is too many parents are beginning specializing their kid early for one sport. The second problem is, when parents see other parents specializing their kid in, say, baseball, they specialize in basketball (or soccer, or football) so the kid can see playing time. Too many parents are concerned with their kid making the All-Star team, or being on the "best team" in town/area, that too many fringe athletes, or may just be very good if they gave it a shot, or grow, don't play a sport.

This is the biggest reason, in my unscientific study, why we are seeing less and less kids coming out for Little League, Midget football, and Biddy basketball. Parents only want their son/daughter to be a starter or star.

Also cost is a major problem these days. My 6 year old cousin in tee ball HAD to buy a bat AND a helmet. There are no more team bats or helmets. Each and every player must have both or they can't play. Who the hell needs a brand new bat in tee ball?!?! Plus every team these days needs brand new jerseys each and every year with the kids' names on the back so it's super cool. No more reusing team jerseys every year for x amount of years.

i think a problem also is a lot of sports are going from "seasonal" to year round. Take soccer for instance, because kids play on club/travel teams as well as school teams their calendar is pretty much taken up for the whole year (winter conditioning/indoor soccer). there simply isn't time for them to diversify if they want to reach the top levels of the game

This isn't anything new. My youngest boys are 32 & 30. Parents started the specialization process back then. The biggest problem I've seen over the years are the parents inability to recognize talent and where it begins and stops. They can't distinguish between a great athlete and a pretty good athlete. Then they get upset when their kid doesn't get that D1 full ride they thought their kid was good enough to get.

 

[GowerND11]

This isn't anything new. My youngest boys are 32 & 30. Parents started the specialization process back then. The biggest problem I've seen over the years are the parents inability to recognize talent and where it begins and stops. They can't distinguish between a great athlete and a pretty good athlete. Then they get upset when their kid doesn't get that D1 full ride they thought their kid was good enough to get.

It certainly isn't new, but I do think it's on the rise. And you're right, the recognition to determine those is missing.

 

[wizards8507]

Also cost is a major problem these days. My 6 year old cousin in tee ball HAD to buy a bat AND a helmet. There are no more team bats or helmets. Each and every player must have both or they can't play. Who the hell needs a brand new bat in tee ball?!?! Plus every team these days needs brand new jerseys each and every year with the kids' names on the back so it's super cool. No more reusing team jerseys every year for x amount of years.

That's insane. I just looked it up and our T-ball is $35 for the season and you don't have to buy anything. Even cleats are optional if you're a poors.

The thing that surprises me is that nobody wants to play Parks & Rec ball anymore. Everyone wants to be on the travel teams that drive all over fucking creation. Why my sister was playing travel softball, she'd go to places like North Carolina and Virginia to play teams from Rhode Island and Connecticut.

 

[GowerND11]

That's insane. I just looked it up and our T-ball is $35 for the season and you don't have to buy anything. Even cleats are optional if you're a poors.

The thing that surprises me is that nobody wants to play Parks & Rec ball anymore. Everyone wants to be on the travel teams that drive all over fucking creation. Why my sister was playing travel softball, she'd go to places like North Carolina and Virginia to play teams from Rhode Island and Connecticut.

People have put it in the mind of parents and kids that they NEED to play travel ball in order to get that coveted scholarship or draft position out of high school in the MLB. Also, kids get so caught up that they will be the next one to do so. Look at how AAU is. More time is spent scouting a high schooler in the summer at AAU games for basketball than during the season.

A local kid was drafted in the second round of the MLB draft 2 years ago. Suddenly every single kid who plays baseball thinks they will be the new Travis Blankenhorn and get drafted. They all play travel ball, many on multiple teams, and think they are either getting drafted or recruited by a top tier D1 team!

 

[IrishLax]

That's insane. I just looked it up and our T-ball is $35 for the season and you don't have to buy anything. Even cleats are optional if you're a poors.

The thing that surprises me is that nobody wants to play Parks & Rec ball anymore. Everyone wants to be on the travel teams that drive all over fucking creation. Why my sister was playing travel softball, she'd go to places like North Carolina and Virginia to play teams from Rhode Island and Connecticut.

Yeah, this phenomenon seems especially prevalent in three sports... soccer, baseball/softball, and lacrosse. Everyone wants their kid on a "club" team for 1) prestige to make it seem like their very average child is good at sports 2) so they can complain about the time commitment.

Sports has gotten so weird. Lots of early specialization, lots needless expense. I currently coach HS lacrosse and I see two types of kids playing the sport...
1) kids who have been groomed for the sport for years and have names like Sky and Jameson (not really their names but you get the idea). They have parents that yell at the refs and are convinced that nothing is ever their child's fault.
2) kids who are completely undedicated and treat the sport as a hobby with everything else (including "studying") taking precedence over practice. They have parents that get upset when practice is mandatory because it's "just an extracurricular."

Kids who play sports for fun and are dedicated to being good player and are mature teammates are rare.

 

[wizards8507]

2) so they can complain about the time commitment.

YES! I'm so sick of this. So many bullshit times I have to cover for people who "have to" leave work early because their kid "has to" be at the field at 4:00 PM. Either 1) the coaches and leagues are dicks for scheduling things at that time, 2) the parents are liars and just want to get out of work early, 3) the parents shouldn't have signed their kids up for leagues that have time commitments in the middle of the work day, or some combination of those things.

 

[irishtrain]

I agree about kids liking it. My basketball players I coach are in love with baseball, yet the local Little League only fields 3 teams. It's a problem all over the county, with towns having to combine to make All-Star teams. One problem I see is too many parents are beginning specializing their kid early for one sport. The second problem is, when parents see other parents specializing their kid in, say, baseball, they specialize in basketball (or soccer, or football) so the kid can see playing time. Too many parents are concerned with their kid making the All-Star team, or being on the "best team" in town/area, that too many fringe athletes, or may just be very good if they gave it a shot, or grow, don't play a sport.

This is the biggest reason, in my unscientific study, why we are seeing less and less kids coming out for Little League, Midget football, and Biddy basketball. Parents only want their son/daughter to be a starter or star.

Also cost is a major problem these days. My 6 year old cousin in tee ball HAD to buy a bat AND a helmet. There are no more team bats or helmets. Each and every player must have both or they can't play. Who the hell needs a brand new bat in tee ball?!?! Plus every team these days needs brand new jerseys each and every year with the kids' names on the back so it's super cool. No more reusing team jerseys every year for x amount of years.

$$$$ doesn't have to be that high-that's a parent problem as my Dad (former minor league player) said its too early to outfit you like a big leaguer. Second there should be a tryout for local teams with the better kids playing in the better league like it was when I was a tike-Little League calls it Major/Minor. And most important an all star team should be kids from town or the league that are the better players that's why they call it an all star team. And those kids should can be held to a higher performance level a little earlier because they are the ones that will most likely continue playing. With that said I tell my parents all the time as I teach their kids-don't get to wrapped up in who's who at this age-I was never the best player on any team and guess what-I played 3 1/2 yrs in the major leagues.

 

[goldandblue]

It certainly isn't new, but I do think it's on the rise. And you're right, the recognition to determine those is missing.

Don't get me started on this subject... We just came out of a Little League season and the parents completely take the enjoyment out of the game. In baseball, Little League is where kids typically first start to separate themselves. The good play, and the weaker play 6 consecutive outs and 1 at bat. More in run away games sometimes. Parents have a HARD time accepting that their kid is one of those bench kids. The also have a very hard time accepting that practice is where you get better, not a game on Tues night.

I have tried to tell my children what I feel are important things in life. For example, if your not one of the best 9 in baseball, you'll be on the bench. If you want to change that, I'll do all I can to help you but you have to give the coach reasons to put you in there. Same with football. Son, there are 11 spots on this field, if you want to be one of those 11, you have to be one of the best 11. Son, if you have a job, you better be the best at it because when times get hard, the best one will have the job and the rest will be sitting at home drawing a measly unemployment check.

Is it that hard to be truthful with your children and not always be looking through parent goggles? Once you get into Jr. High and High School level, there are no rules governing how much a kid plays. In my opinion there are going to be alot of upset parents and children as they mature in the sports world.

 

[GowerND11]

Don't get me started on this subject... We just came out of a Little League season and the parents completely take the enjoyment out of the game. In baseball, Little League is where kids typically first start to separate themselves. The good play, and the weaker play 6 consecutive outs and 1 at bat. More in run away games sometimes. Parents have a HARD time accepting that their kid is one of those bench kids. The also have a very hard time accepting that practice is where you get better, not a game on Tues night.

I have tried to tell my children what I feel are important things in life. For example, if your not one of the best 9 in baseball, you'll be on the bench. If you want to change that, I'll do all I can to help you but you have to give the coach reasons to put you in there. Same with football. Son, there are 11 spots on this field, if you want to be one of those 11, you have to be one of the best 11. Son, if you have a job, you better be the best at it because when times get hard, the best one will have the job and the rest will be sitting at home drawing a measly unemployment check.

Is it that hard to be truthful with your children and not always be looking through parent goggles? Once you get into Jr. High and High School level, there are no rules governing how much a kid plays. In my opinion there are going to be alot of upset parents and children as they mature in the sports world.

Agree on all accounts. One thing kids have a hard time with is being a substitute as well. They very well may be good enough to play, but they just aren't good enough to start (or could just be better off the bench as well). I see it a lot where I ask kids why they aren't coming out, or they quit. "I'm not starting." It blows my mind, because I remind them that I can't play only 5 players in basketball. I need guys on the bench, and sometimes coming off the bench, as the other team just starts to get tired, I need "Joey" to go in there full of energy and cause problems. They, and ESPECIALLY their parents, don't get that.

It's ok to be a bench player sometimes. You can be super valuable to a team, and in fact, by not coming out they set the whole team back sometimes.

 

[NorthDakota]

That's insane. I just looked it up and our T-ball is $35 for the season and you don't have to buy anything. Even cleats are optional if you're a poors.

The thing that surprises me is that nobody wants to play Parks & Rec ball anymore. Everyone wants to be on the travel teams that drive all over fucking creation. Why my sister was playing travel softball, she'd go to places like North Carolina and Virginia to play teams from Rhode Island and Connecticut.

Our park and rec baseball was lit. I think it was like $50. We played twice a week and practiced once. Changed positions every inning. This was for 11-12 year olds. I hope that hasn't changed yet.

The earliest travel team in town was 12 yr olds. We ALL still played park and rec too, and honestly anyone was allowed to be on the team. We never left ND. Played pretty well everyone. Had fun. I sucked and hated batting, but still had fun.

What you describe sounds like those psycho hockey teams. Parents legit go broke doing that here.

 

[dublinirish]

HS Soccer coach here in MI, and I laugh when I talk to the BB/SB coaches at the school, IMO baseball parents are the WORST. The atmosphere/helicopter parenting at the games is incredibly toxic, no way would i touch that scene with a 50 foot barge pole.

 

[GowerND11]

HS Soccer coach here in MI, and I laugh when I talk to the BB/SB coaches at the school, IMO baseball parents are the WORST. The atmosphere/helicopter parenting at the games is incredibly toxic, no way would i touch that scene with a 50 foot barge pole.

Yeah, the stereotypical baseball parent is certainly horrible. Running from the bleachers to the dugout at the coach because he pulled their kid off the mound is typical. I've been fortunate in basketball that I have had only one encounter with a parent about playing time.

 

[dublinirish]

Yeah, the stereotypical baseball parent is certainly horrible. Running from the bleachers to the dugout at the coach because he pulled their kid off the mound is typical. I've been fortunate in basketball that I have had only one encounter with a parent about playing time.

the parents who sit directly behind home plate are the ones i despise. Go sit on the bleachers off the foul lines like a normal person.

 

[zelezo vlk]

HS Soccer coach here in MI, and I laugh when I talk to the BB/SB coaches at the school, IMO baseball parents are the WORST. The atmosphere/helicopter parenting at the games is incredibly toxic, no way would i touch that scene with a 50 foot barge pole.

Yeah, the stereotypical baseball parent is certainly horrible. Running from the bleachers to the dugout at the coach because he pulled their kid off the mound is typical. I've been fortunate in basketball that I have had only one encounter with a parent about playing time.

 

[Rack Em]

the parents who sit directly behind home plate are the ones i despise. Go sit on the bleachers off the foul lines like a normal person.

I umpired 9-10 year old baseball when I was in high school. I had a coach complain to be in between innings about the consistency of my strike zone (which is difficult to call when 9-10 year olds can't hit the plate). He was right, I wasn't calling the outside strike so I attempted to stay "consistent" and didn't call it the rest of the game. Apparently he wanted to me expand the zone for his pitcher as he got tired. Not gonna happen on my watch.

He asked for my name after the game so he could report me to the commissioner. I gladly gave him my full name and said I'm sure my uncle (the commissioner) would be happy to talk to him.

Dude thought he was fucking Joe Torre managing game 6 of the World Series.

I also watched a coach call time during an inning to pull a kid out of right field for dropping a fly ball. It was 9-10 year old baseball. I felt absolutely awful for the kid and I refused to umpire that league after that. I remember having that happen to me when I was 13, but only after badly dropped two throws at 1B and needed to get my head screwed on straight. But my coach didn't embarrass me like that at 9 years old.

 

[Irish#1]

Yeah, this phenomenon seems especially prevalent in three sports... soccer, baseball/softball, and lacrosse. Everyone wants their kid on a "club" team for 1) prestige to make it seem like their very average child is good at sports 2) so they can complain about the time commitment.

Sports has gotten so weird. Lots of early specialization, lots needless expense. I currently coach HS lacrosse and I see two types of kids playing the sport...
1) kids who have been groomed for the sport for years and have names like Sky and Jameson (not really their names but you get the idea). They have parents that yell at the refs and are convinced that nothing is ever their child's fault.
2) kids who are completely undedicated and treat the sport as a hobby with everything else (including "studying") taking precedence over practice. They have parents that get upset when practice is mandatory because it's "just an extracurricular."

Kids who play sports for fun and are dedicated to being good player and are mature teammates are rare.

It's pretty much all sports. Traveling is huge in volleyball, basketball, swimming and wrestling. One of my boys played on a traveling team in baseball back around 97 or 98. He played a little over 100 games his first and last season.

 

[IrishLax]

It's pretty much all sports. Traveling is huge in volleyball, basketball, swimming and wrestling. One of my boys played on a traveling team in baseball back around 97 or 98. He played a little over 100 games his first and last season.

But, IMO, kids who are on those travel teams are (for the most part) actually talented where a rec league option doesn't suffice. Same applies to hockey, because there often aren't rec leagues in some parts of the country so you have to be on a "travel" squad.

With baseball and soccer especially, the amount of kids who are bad but their parents are convinced they're great is insane. There are tons of "travel" kids that won't even make their HS team. In lacrosse, it's more than because Bryden is on a club team Shackleford's parents must have their child on a team too. The prominent clubs out here now often have a B and C team just to collect money from parents willing to throw it away and so they can say their kid plays on that club.

 

[Irish#1]

It certainly isn't new, but I do think it's on the rise. And you're right, the recognition to determine those is missing.

Not being argumentative, but I don't think it's on the rise. It's been this way for quite a while. I can't tell you how many kids I coached when they were in Little League, youth FB, etc. that didn't play the next year because they were going to "concentrate" on one sport.

I've always contemplated writing a book on this subject.

"The End of the Innocence - The demise of Fun in Youth Sports".

My wife refused to come to the Little League games I coached because she grew tired of hearing the parents complain.

 

[dublinirish]

But, IMO, kids who are on those travel teams are (for the most part) actually talented where a rec league option doesn't suffice. Same applies to hockey, because there often aren't rec leagues in some parts of the country so you have to be on a "travel" squad.

With baseball and soccer especially, the amount of kids who are bad but their parents are convinced they're great is insane. There are tons of "travel" kids that won't even make their HS team. In lacrosse, it's more than because Bryden is on a club team Shackleford's parents must have their child on a team too. The prominent clubs out here now often have a B and C team just to collect money from parents willing to throw it away and so they can say their kid plays on that club.

yeah plenty of soccer clubs around here that charge parents about $1500 a year per kid to train their kids 3/4 times a week, it's a really money making machine