Diaco Hired as Purdue DC

[kmoose]

I'm waiting to be proved wrong. I'm also waiting for Godot to turn up as the new S&C coach.

No, you're not, and that's the problem....

 

[kmoose]

Heh. Even in a calm sea, I curse like a sailor.

On behalf of sailors everywhere............... F you, you Fin Fed Up Fer!!

 

[Classic Irish]

With the amount of money ND has to spend, every coach in America is an option.

I'm stunned that there still are people out there who believe this nonsense.

 

[stlnd01]

I've replied to this post over here.

Funny. You were wrong over there too.
Stability in a head coach does matter because, unlike an NFL QB - who's valuable at the high end but easily replaced if he doesn't work out - a big-time college coach runs the entire enterprise, from staff to recruiting to development to play-calling. Some of that takes years to put together. And if you fire your guy over one bad season you find yourself hitting reset over and over again, and that's a lot of years to walk through the wilderness (see: Notre Dame Football, 1997-2010).
This is not to say you never fire the guy, once it's clear that he's not the guy. But if he has earned some rope as a program-builder - as Kelly has - it's wiser to ride out one bad year. The risk of going backward with a bad hire is just too high. This is doubly true if you can't get one of the very small handful of coaches who have proven the ability to win consistently at the highest level, or a guy who's a proven winner at a lower level but a good fit clearly poised for the next step. And this year we couldn't.
We'll see what happens next. But at this point stability is smarter than firing Kelly with no better replacement. Score one for stability.

 

[BobbyMac]

Do you know something we all don't? Saban and Meyer were begging for the ND job but ND wouldn't open the bank?

The issue has never been and never will be money at ND. The best coaches in college football aren't taking ND over Ohio St, Texas, USC, Clemson, FSU, Bama, LSU.

Yes they would. It's simply a function of money. ND hasn't been willing to spend what it takes to get any coach you want to name to come. ND has the ability more than ANY football entity in the country to pay for whoever. They just foolishly choose not to. What's the moral difference in paying Kelly whatever he gets paid... $4M-$5M and paying Saban, Meyer, Belichick, whoever, $12M-$15M? Zero. They are both obscene amounts of money for football coach. BUT, ND's warchest is $11B+ because of football. Period. Without Rockne, Leahy and the storied history, it's another UD, DePaul or Loyola. A $12M salary is an insurance policy that the brand that is Notre Dame never becomes was Notre Dame. The capital is there, the will to allocate is not. I have this debate with the guys who graduated back in the 50's & 60's at ND Club game watches and they don't disagree, some completely agree, some just say it won't happen because they're cheap.

I'm stunned that there still are people out there who believe this nonsense.

There's nothing nonsense about it. It's dollars & cents, brand reinvestment, market reacquisition. The fact that ND admin isn't willing to do what is both prudent and deserved is what's nonsense. Don't confuse my position as a prediction. That it's not.

 

[Classic Irish]

Yes they would. It's simply a function of money. ND hasn't been willing to spend what it takes to get any coach you want to name to come. ND has the ability more than ANY football entity in the country to pay for whoever. They just foolishly choose not to. What's the moral difference in paying Kelly whatever he gets paid... $4M-$5M and paying Saban, Meyer, Belichick, whoever, $12M-$15M? Zero. They are both obscene amounts of money for football coach. BUT, ND's warchest is $11B+ because of football. Period. Without Rockne, Leahy and the storied history, it's another UD, DePaul or Loyola. A $12M salary is an insurance policy that the brand that is Notre Dame never becomes was Notre Dame. The capital is there, the will to allocate is not. I have this debate with the guys who graduated back in the 50's & 60's at ND Club game watches and they don't disagree, some completely agree, some just say it won't happen because they're cheap.



There's nothing nonsense about it. It's dollars & cents, brand reinvestment, market reacquisition. The fact that ND admin isn't willing to do what is both prudent and deserved is what's nonsense. Don't confuse my position as a prediction. That it's not.

If you think Saban and Meyer are sitting by the phone and would come to ND if only ND would shell out the money, then I don't know what to tell you. Totally absurd. That's not why those coaches aren't interested in ND. Stick with following the NFL. You don't seem to understand the realities of the CFB landscape.

 

[Luckylucci]

Crusader is saying they can afford it, if they really wanted to, which is true. The others are saying they won't, which is also true. If ND offers Saban the same contract to coach at ND, as he has at Bama, he'll say no. Now if we doubled it (or put out some obscene number) could that change his mind, of course. But, that isn't happening.

 

[Luckylucci]

Essentially, everything/everyone has a price, and ND "could" afford it, if they wanted to.

 

[BobbyMac]

Essentially, everything/everyone has a price, and ND "could" afford it, if they wanted to.

Thank you.

Never said they would or believed they would.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Essentially, everything/everyone has a price, and ND "could" afford it, if they wanted to.

Swarbrick has all but explicitly stated that ND will never pay that kind of money for a coach:

“Most athletic budgets are somewhere around the 3-8 percent range” of the total university budget, according to Swarbrick. “The Stanfords of the world are not going to allow that 4 percent business unit [to] take them places they don’t want to be.”

ND's admin is intent on keeping football subjugated to the University's mission. So unless that changes, landing a coach like Meyer or Saban is a pipe dream, because ND ain't willing to sell its soul for gridiron success.

 

[phillyirish]

There should be an automatic ban every time someone mentions Satan or Meyer coaching at ND.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Apparently Edsall is returning to coach the Huskies.

Great news for UCONN that Edsall has returned home! Go Huskies!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Classic Irish]

Crusader is saying they can afford it, if they really wanted to, which is true. The others are saying they won't, which is also true. If ND offers Saban the same contract to coach at ND, as he has at Bama, he'll say no. Now if we doubled it (or put out some obscene number) could that change his mind, of course. But, that isn't happening.

Ok, they likely would leave Alabama and Ohio State to come to ND if we were to offer half of a million a year. But that's not reality. The reality is that for all intents and purposes Meyer and Saban will never come to ND because they do not want to deal with the academic and disciplinary responsibilities that inherently come with coaching at ND. They don't want to worry about players going to class and graduating players. They are only interested in players being eligible so they can devote all of their time to football. That will never happen at ND---not should it. Previously, Crusader has advocated that ND roll back its academic standards for athletes and implement majors that are solely intended to keep players eligible---essentially wanting ND to become a football factory. As an alum, that suggests that he utterly fails to understand what ND is all about. If that's what he wants, he should go follow Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, etc... Now that is not to suggest that I'm happy with Kelly's performance this season---absolutely not. I do think that Kelly and ND should soon part ways. But I do not think ND needs to sell its soul for gridiron success.

Side note: Crusader has previously stated that ND should try to schedule as many games in NFL venues as they can---a statement that indicates someone who really doesn't appreciate the uniqueness of playing on a college campus nor the pageantry of college football. It suggests that he is primarily an NFL fan who also happens to have a side interest in ND football. And that's ok. But that statement coupled with both his suggestion that ND become a football factory and the suggestion that it's only a money issue in luring Meyer and Saban tells me a lot. To be clear, I'm not intending to insult Crusader. Just pointing out why I disagree.

 

[BobbyMac]

Swarbrick has all but explicitly stated that ND will never pay that kind of money for a coach:



ND's admin is intent on keeping football subjugated to the University's mission. So unless that changes, landing a coach like Meyer or Saban is a pipe dream, because ND ain't willing to sell its soul for gridiron success.

I'm not arguing with you. I understand the "This is how it is" policy of ND & the program.

Is their a moral difference of paying a football coach $10M vs $5M at ND?

Paying the HC at St. Joe's in Rensselaer $1M is obscene. Paying the HC at ND $10M is a function of the school's football economy and it's integrated, foundational importance to the university.

From a business point of view, a program capable of winning a championship every year under a successful $10M coach is a prudent, fiscally responsible choice over an unsuccessful $5M coach. It doesn't take a Mendoza MBA to figure out the profit generated by a perennial championship caliber program would far outpace the expenditure of securing an icon coach and more importantly than a yearly balance sheet is the generosity of donors. Everybody loves a winner.

I've never bought the "Sell their soul" position. Why is paying double for an icon coach a waste? How is it different than the money ND "wastes" traveling all over the US playing football games or the putting on the Shamrock Series? Having iconic coaches is just as much part of ND tradition as sending 200 people to California to play SC or Stanford or the same people to Texas for Shamrock games? Does anyone want to scrap Cali and the Shamrock Series and opt to play Northwestern, IU and Purdue yearly instead? They'll save millions. And let's be honest, football bought & paid for ND's soul as we know it. ND as it is never would have existed if not for football.

I can't argue the mission of the university but a respected and successful football team makes that mission easier. As I said above, football made it possible for ND to execute that mission in the first place. A really interesting alum I met at the NDCofOC last year said it best during a game, "Right now all across the country people are watching this game, fellowshipping like us, all in God's presence. That's what makes ND football unique, the work it allows the school to do for the Lord's community. Football and ND are indivisible". That profoundly struck a nerve with me and is the reason I'm starting RCIA after Easter. ND Football has been a constant in my life and the people I have met associated with the university and/or the program rarely disappoint. I don't think my experience is unique. I'm proud of what the University stands for and the men and women it produces. I hope that the football program continues to be a rallying point for proud alums and fans, who then in turn hear the calling of the church and join in its outreach. That's worth investing in.

 

[NDgradstudent]

ND's admin is intent on keeping football subjugated to the University's mission. So unless that changes, landing a coach like Meyer or Saban is a pipe dream, because ND ain't willing to sell its soul for gridiron success.

I can't tell if you think that this is a plausible description of the ND admin's behavior vis-a-vis football, but it isn't. It's not a matter of ND "selling its soul." If you've been to the bookstore you know that ND sells literally everything but its soul, from stadium grass to ND-themed mixers to game coins used in losses.

It's one thing to say ND won't admit players who admissions doesn't think can graduate from ND, or that ND won't create special classes or majors or dorms for athletes. To do otherwise calls into question the university's commitment to providing the players with an education.

But how does a coaches' salary relate to that? As NDCrusader pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no moral difference between paying a coach 3 million and paying a coach 8 million. You're still paying someone millions of $$$ to coach a bunch of kids to kick and throw a ball around. It's sports.

ND football is a product, and the product currently sucks. If you aren't going to make good cars, stop making cars.

 

[Irish#1]

I think many of you are missing NDC's point. I don't think he ever suggested ND should change. He has simply pointed out that they could afford to do a number of things without hurting the pocketbook if they so chose to.

ND is what it is today, largely on the fact that the football program brought it into the national spotlight. Admin doesn't want ND to be known more for its football than its academics, but I bet if you took a poll from the average person on the street and asked, "What's the first thing you think of when I say Notre Dame?" you might have a 50/50 split at best between football and academics. I love what ND stands for and would never advocate a position change when it comes to academics and the humanities it immerses itself in.

However, it could expand those area on the success of the football program and the revenue it could generate if there were some changes in the FB program. The amount of ND gear that started popping up everywhere in Indy in 2012 was crazy. You put yourself in the mix for a NC every 1-3 years and the amount of revenue would be insane.

You can make some changes without compromising the integrity and core mission of Notre Dame.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I'm not arguing with you. I understand the "This is how it is" policy of ND & the program.

Is their a moral difference of paying a football coach $10M vs $5M at ND?

Paying the HC at St. Joe's in Rensselaer $1M is obscene. Paying the HC at ND $10M is a function of the school's football economy and it's integrated, foundational importance to the university.

From a business point of view, a program capable of winning a championship every year under a successful $10M coach is a prudent, fiscally responsible choice over an unsuccessful $5M coach. It doesn't take a Mendoza MBA to figure out the profit generated by a perennial championship caliber program would far outpace the expenditure of securing an icon coach and more importantly than a yearly balance sheet is the generosity of donors. Everybody loves a winner.

I've never bought the "Sell their soul" position. Why is paying double for an icon coach a waste? How is it different than the money ND "wastes" traveling all over the US playing football games or the putting on the Shamrock Series? Having iconic coaches is just as much part of ND tradition as sending 200 people to California to play SC or Stanford or the same people to Texas for Shamrock games? Does anyone want to scrap Cali and the Shamrock Series and opt to play Northwestern, IU and Purdue yearly instead? They'll save millions. And let's be honest, football bought & paid for ND's soul as we know it. ND as it is never would have existed if not for football.

I can't argue the mission of the university but a respected and successful football team makes that mission easier. As I said above, football made it possible for ND to execute that mission in the first place. A really interesting alum I met at the NDCofOC last year said it best during a game, "Right now all across the country people are watching this game, fellowshipping like us, all in God's presence. That's what makes ND football unique, the work it allows the school to do for the Lord's community. Football and ND are indivisible". That profoundly struck a nerve with me and is the reason I'm starting RCIA after Easter. ND Football has been a constant in my life and the people I have met associated with the university and/or the program rarely disappoint. I don't think my experience is unique. I'm proud of what the University stands for and the men and women it produces. I hope that the football program continues to be a rallying point for proud alums and fans, who then in turn hear the calling of the church and join in its outreach. That's worth investing in.

Congrats dude!

 

[stlnd01]

It's one thing to say ND won't admit players who admissions doesn't think can graduate from ND, or that ND won't create special classes or majors or dorms for athletes. To do otherwise calls into question the university's commitment to providing the players with an education.

But how does a coaches' salary relate to that? As NDCrusader pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no moral difference between paying a coach 3 million and paying a coach 8 million. You're still paying someone millions of $$$ to coach a bunch of kids to kick and throw a ball around. It's sports.

I think this is exactly where this conversation always gets lost. It's not the money that prevents the very top tier of coaches from coming to Notre Dams. It's the other stuff.

I think there was a time - under Malloy - when Notre Dame underpaid coaches and generally underinvested in its football program. But since Jenkins and Swarbrick came in I think that time is clearly passed. They've made a (wise, IMO) decision to invest in the football program and pay competitively for top-tier coaches. I suspect they agree with Crusader's notion that there's no moral difference between a $3M coach and an $8M coach.

But. To that coaches we're talking about - Saban, Meyer, etc - it's not just about the money. You can pay them $20M and they wouldn't come to Notre Dame because Notre Dame won't give them total control of the football program - which is what those guys want and feel the need to win championships and can get from some other elite programs. The administration does see moral value in maintaining control of its athletic department and ensuring a real education and true student-athlete-dom. They've been quite clear on that. And if it means we have a slightly-lesser coach who's willing to work towards those goals and within those confines, OK.

Souls can come in different forms. In this case it's not about money but about standards. Either way we're not getting Urban Meyer.

 

[BobbyMac]

Ok, they likely would leave Alabama and Ohio State to come to ND if we were to offer half of a million a year. But that's not reality. The reality is that for all intents and purposes Meyer and Saban will never come to ND because they do not want to deal with the academic and disciplinary responsibilities that inherently come with coaching at ND. They don't want to worry about players going to class and graduating players. They are only interested in players being eligible so they can devote all of their time to football. That will never happen at ND---not should it. Previously, Crusader has advocated that ND roll back its academic standards for athletes and implement majors that are solely intended to keep players eligible---essentially wanting ND to become a football factory. As an alum, that suggests that he utterly fails to understand what ND is all about. If that's what he wants, he should go follow Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, etc... Now that is not to suggest that I'm happy with Kelly's performance this season---absolutely not. I do think that Kelly and ND should soon part ways. But I do not think ND needs to sell its soul for gridiron success.

Side note: Crusader has previously stated that ND should try to schedule as many games in NFL venues as they can---a statement that indicates someone who really doesn't appreciate the uniqueness of playing on a college campus nor the pageantry of college football. It suggests that he is primarily an NFL fan who also happens to have a side interest in ND football. And that's ok. But that statement coupled with both his suggestion that ND become a football factory and the suggestion that it's only a money issue in luring Meyer and Saban tells me a lot. To be clear, I'm not intending to insult Crusader. Just pointing out why I disagree.

In my defense if I may.

I've asked what's the difference in allowing in a 1000 SAT kid vs. the 1150 SAT they allow in now? Both are short of what ND admits in the general student body.

What's the difference in having a Sports Management degree that produces ND level graduates leaders in everything from Boys & Girls Clubs, YMCA's, to brands mgr's at Under Armour to Professional Sports Agents? You already have a Film and Theatre major and still ND sits solidly in the Top 20 of US institutions.

I sort of addressed in my last post but how could ND "sell it's soul" for football when it was football that bought and paid for that soul... on the backs of players who would not get into ND today. I don't hear today's champions of academic justice denouncing Rockne's championships he won with 24 y/o renta players who went to Holy Cross.
The guys I watch games with here at the NDCofPHX who are mostly 60's and 70's grads ALL say they wouldn't get into ND today. Besides Joe Frederick, I can't think of one guy I played against that was ND material without basketball. I can think of a few that would have struggled at Valpo.

I am a college sports fan. I don't follow the NFL or NBA. I would rather see ND play Wake at Wake. I would rather see ND play UT at UT. i would however rather see a Navy game at Qualcomm in San Diego or whatever the Jags stadium is called in Jacksonville than at Annapolis for one reason. Recruiting. When I said playing UT at Cowboy stadium or UGa at the Falcon's stadium it was about recruiting and taking away home field advantage against other blue blood programs. I personally want to watch away games at other schools. But if you don't think it's a bullet when sitting in a 4-5 star's living room that they are going to be playing in NFL stadiums, then you don't know recruiting. When it was me, the first thing I told kids was you'll play Marquette at the Bradley Center, Butler at Market Square and Hinkle, Loyola at the United Center... that's what kids want to hear, not we have a roadtrip to NC to play Wake Forest and Davidson.

And it will always be a money issue as to why ________ does not coach at ND. Anybody will look past the hurdles of ND for the right money. It's not Duke, Vandy or Stanford. It's ND. Everyone of the icon coaches I speak of has an ego big enough to KNOW they would win at ND. You'd just have to pay them enough to put up with the regulation. There is nothing Nick Saban would rather have on his tombstone than... Here lies the only coach who could have won that NC at ND.

 

[Irish#1]

All coaches have their price, including Saban and Meyer. I agree it will never happen, but I think they would come to ND for the right (insane) money regardless of the restrictions. One might argue that their ego would want to take on that challenge if they were paid enough. If Saan were to win a NC at ND, Meyer wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Saban. Saban would be in a class by himself.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm not arguing with you.

This is what I get for jumping into a thread without catching up on the last few pages. I wasn't intending to argue against you or NDgradstudent. Lucci's post just reminded me of a relevant Swarbrick quote, so I shared it. My editorializing around that quote is my understanding of how Swarbrick and the BoT approach this issue, but more on that below.

And let's be honest, football bought & paid for ND's soul as we know it. ND as it is never would have existed if not for football.

I agree that they're intertwined, but I'd argue that you have the causation backward. It's because ND is Catholic that it's football program gained a national following. Millions of 1st and 2nd generation Catholic immigrants who were tired of getting kicked around by their WASPy neighbors immediately embraced the Fighting Irish, because it was fun watching a bunch of tough Cat'lic boys kick others around on the football field. Had ND been Episcopalian or some other Protestant denomination, even with the early success of Harper and Rockne, today we'd be just another midwestern football school in the B1G, probably no more successful than PSU.

That profoundly struck a nerve with me and is the reason I'm starting RCIA after Easter.

Welcome home!

That's worth investing in.

I don't disagree, but I think it would help to clarify what Swabrick, Jenkins and the BoT are worried about here. They view Stanford as the closest thing we have to a peer in CFB, and point out that such schools only spend ~4% of their total budget on the Athletic Department, whereas schools like 'Bama and OSU spend a much larger % on it. They view the latter group of schools as engaged in a sort of CFB funding arms race which invariably leads to all sorts of ethical difficulties. Once you've decided to spend "whatever it takes" to be competitive in football--even if it pays off from an investment perspective!--how does one hold the line on bagmen, co-ed "escorts" for visiting recruits, campus cops who are predisposed toward covering up rape, etc? In for a penny, in for a pound...

Perhaps it is possible to blow the top off the budget and still maintain Catholic values, but the higher ups tend not to think so. The history of ND football includes several periods where we essentially self-sanctioned to bring a successful football coach back under the clear purview of ND's admin. Can you imagine such a thing ever happening at a football factory?

But how does a coaches' salary relate to that? As NDCrusader pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no moral difference between paying a coach 3 million and paying a coach 8 million. You're still paying someone millions of $$$ to coach a bunch of kids to kick and throw a ball around. It's sports.

The difference, at least as ND's admin apparently sees it, is that jumping into the CFB funding arms race, while not in itself unethical, would eventually lead us into practices that conflict with our Catholic values. I don't know whether or not that's true, but it's certainly a reasonable belief.

ND football is a product, and the product currently sucks. If you aren't going to make good cars, stop making cars.

I doubt we'll ever stop playing football entirely, but we may stop trying to compete with the football factories at some point. That's exactly what Jenkins and Swarbrick are alluding to when they discuss forming two separate leagues--one that follows the semi-pro model of 'Bama, OSU, etc. and another that still cares about the ideal of the student athlete, like Stanford, Northwestern, the military academies, etc.

 

[Irish YJ]

I doubt we'll ever stop playing football entirely, but we may stop trying to compete with the football factories at some point. That's exactly what Jenkins and Swarbrick are alluding to when they discuss forming two separate leagues--one that follows the semi-pro model of 'Bama, OSU, etc. and another that still cares about the ideal of the student athlete, like Stanford, Northwestern, the military academies, etc.

I honestly can't see this happening in the next 20 years. At least I hope not. While a noble idea, what about...

• Alumni would shit a brick. Can you imagine the donor fall off?
• Is ND going to give up NBC or similar revenue. NBC wouldn't shell out the $$ for EFL (Educational Football League).
• Stanford is, and I believe will continue to be very competitive in the PAC12. I can't see them being open to it.
• NW and the Services are a meh, and aside from Stanford, what other major university could you even envision leaving D1? I don't see Vandy leaving the SEC...
• Can you imagine the attendance drop off. And few would continue to pay even close to the current ticket prices.
• What about the other sports?
• What would the transition look like. Is that fair to recruits who are stuck in the process. Two different football teams for 4 years?

If that's where Jenkins and Jack want to take us, we need some new blood who are up to the task waking up the echos... just my HO

 

[ulukinatme]

And it will always be a money issue as to why ________ does not coach at ND. Anybody will look past the hurdles of ND for the right money. It's not Duke, Vandy or Stanford. It's ND. Everyone of the icon coaches I speak of has an ego big enough to KNOW they would win at ND. You'd just have to pay them enough to put up with the regulation. There is nothing Nick Saban would rather have on his tombstone than... Here lies the only coach who could have won that NC at ND.

I still disagree. Obviously we haven't offered any of the top dogs an insane contract (To my knowledge), but we know a few things that lend to the notion that some coaches are perfectly content on staying where they are. For one, Saban was offered a pretty hefty raise to come to Texas before Charlie Strong and he declined. Now, I do believe that Bama upped the ante to keep him, but I don't believe it matched the Texas offer. We also know in the past that the job was available to Urban, and he reached out to Bob Davie to find out if it was possible to really win at ND anymore, to which Davie said no. Knowing that and the fact Urban opted to go to Florida instead (Despite ND being one of his dream jobs at that time), I doubt Urban would ever come to South Bend. Even if he changed his mind I seriously doubt the University would open the checkbook to even match what tOSU is paying him, and there's no way Urban is going to come to ND for less money on a gamble.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I think this is exactly where this conversation always gets lost. It's not the money that prevents the very top tier of coaches from coming to Notre Dams. It's the other stuff.

I think there was a time - under Malloy - when Notre Dame underpaid coaches and generally underinvested in its football program. But since Jenkins and Swarbrick came in I think that time is clearly passed. They've made a (wise, IMO) decision to invest in the football program and pay competitively for top-tier coaches. I suspect they agree with Crusader's notion that there's no moral difference between a $3M coach and an $8M coach.

- which is what those guys want and feel the need to win championships and can get from some other elite programs. The administration does see moral value in maintaining control of its athletic department But. To that coaches we're talking about - Saban, Meyer, etc - it's not just about the money. You can pay them $20M and they wouldn't come to Notre Dame because Notre Dame won't give them total control of the football programand ensuring a real education and true student-athlete-dom. They've been quite clear on that. And if it means we have a slightly-lesser coach who's willing to work towards those goals and within those confines, OK.

Souls can come in different forms. In this case it's not about money but about standards. Either way we're not getting Urban Meyer.

Ultimately, this is it. Delusional ND fans think ND is the #1 job in college football, and it's not.

Could ND afford $15 million a year for a coach? Sure. Would that number get Saban or Meyer? Helllllllll no.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Could ND afford $15 million a year for a coach? Sure. Would that number get Saban or Meyer? Helllllllll no.

Either one of those guys would drop everything and hop on a flight to South Bend tonight if Swarbrick offered $15m/ year. ND clearly isn't willing to break the bank for an iconic coach, but it's absurd to argue that they'd turn down a chance to double (in Saban's case) or triple (in Meyer's case) their salary in South Bend.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Either one of those guys would drop everything and hop on a flight to South Bend tonight if Swarbrick offered $15m/ year. ND clearly isn't willing to break the bank for an iconic coach, but it's absurd to argue that they'd turn down a chance to double (in Saban's case) or triple (in Meyer's case) their salary in South Bend.

I can see why you'd make the argument, but I think these two are just as driven by ego and legacy as they are dollar signs. Look at their college head coaching records and titles. Both would take a hit at ND because no coach at ND (in modern times) do what those two are doing at other schools.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I can see why you'd make the argument, but I think these two are just as driven by ego and legacy as they are dollar signs. Look at their college head coaching records and titles. Both would take a hit at ND because no coach at ND (in modern times) do what those two are doing at other schools.

Winning is definitely harder with ND's ethical constraints than it is at a football factory. So if Swarbrick only offers to match their current salaries (or even raise them by 10-20%), I could see them turning it down because it wouldn't be worth the additional headaches. But for 1.5x+? They'd be stupid not to.

And how better to cap their legacy than to return ND to glory? What else do they have left to accomplish? The only thing preventing us from getting such a coach is ND's (lack of) willingness to open the checkbook.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

With no disrespect to any poster in this thread, I think this is a bunch of talk around the cooler.

Twenty different people saying 27 different things. This conversation needs a common theme!

You all want that want Diaco back, go watch that video from 12/8. If you want that back, you deserve it.

I have been busy elsewhere, and haven't had much time to be online.

But I have had a chance to get some really good inside information, some of which I will post in the coaches thread, you know the one.

My info is in two parts. One comes from more than one prospect that ND has attempted to recruit, and it offered me an inside view, earlier this fall, into am incredibly dysfunctional coaching staff (before any of the firings). Some of the biggest problems have been eliminated.

And the second piece has more to do with the process to rectify that. It is espoused by two individuals that I know, one who is right in the middle of an old, and moneyed group of alums and supporters. What these guys told me, really shocked me.

But as far as this thread, it seems to be missing a single question : Does ND want to see itself as an academic institution first in all things, or does it want to be seen as a football powerhouse, separate from a great academic institution?

I mean, how good of a school ND is, is without question. And no matter what they do with their football program, it doesn't matter. Nothing will change that. Nothing the football program can do will change that.

I no longer personally give a shit about the hypocrisy of the NCAA version of the student athlete. Big money, and the NFL have changed that, changed college football forever. College football isn't as far gone as basketball, but money owns the game. Everything this past year from the NCAA sanctions against ND (and lack thereof against any institution that falsified grades, institutionally promoted false classes, promoted a rape culture, etc.,) to the examples of McCaffrey and Fournette prove that.

So, all ND has to do as an institution is sack up, and decide what they want.

Oh, wait. There is a move afoot to spin athletics (read football) away from university control, to be an independent business entity. What will that mean?

Look at what ND has in the crossroads project alone.

And remember, a big part of why there is a phenomenal, world-class, Catholic institution in the middle of BFE is because of . . . ?

That's right football. The notoriety ND achieved during the last great nationalistic movement, gave immigrants an identity to rally around, a way to belong in this country, and America a fuckin' football team that would play anyone, anywhere, anytime!

So, then do we (or does ND) take the next step? Or does it retire, and concentrate on becoming a bastion of the established?

Either is okay with me, honestly. When done with honesty and forthrightness. It is the straddling the fence post that I can't stand.

Progam, pick a side!

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Winning is definitely harder with ND's ethical constraints than it is at a football factory. So if Swarbrick only offers to match their current salaries (or even raise them by 10-20%), I could see them turning it down because it wouldn't be worth the additional headaches. But for 1.5x+? They'd be stupid not to.

And how better to cap their legacy than to return ND to glory? What else do they have left to accomplish? The only thing preventing us from getting such a coach is ND's (lack of) willingness to open the checkbook.

I think you're forgetting two huge factors: Meyer and Saban would also want the ability to recruit everyone and anyone they want, and they'd want 100% control over player discipline. ND would offer neither.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I think you're forgetting two huge factors: Meyer and Saban would also want the ability to recruit everyone and anyone they want, and they'd want 100% control over player discipline. ND would offer neither.

Couldn't agree more. Why would any big time coach come here? Saban and urban don't have to worry about kids grades the teachers are on the football teams side, they give out good grades and show bias to the football team. At ND the teachers watch you like a hawk