Defensive Back Thread

[Irish YJ]

Since we have an OL, and DL thread, but nothing for any other position groups...

Something relevant to DBs only.

Give me wood

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> has commitments from 3 DB's ranked in the Top 101 by Rivals, and that doesn't include the vastly underrated K.J. Wallace. In the last two classes the Irish staff have landed 6 Rivals250 DB's, adding to last year's haul of Derrik Allen, Houston Griffith and Noah Boykin.</p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/1070367801913819136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Since we have an OL, and DL thread, but nothing for any other position groups...

Something relevant to DBs only.

Give me wood

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> has commitments from 3 DB's ranked in the Top 101 by Rivals, and that doesn't include the vastly underrated K.J. Wallace. In the last two classes the Irish staff have landed 6 Rivals250 DB's, adding to last year's haul of Derrik Allen, Houston Griffith and Noah Boykin.</p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/1070367801913819136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
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And that doesn't include Tariq Bracy who appears poised to have a role in nickel moving forward. (potentially taking over a CB spot?)

 

[Irish YJ]

And that doesn't include Tariq Bracy who appears poised to have a role in nickel moving forward. (potentially taking over a CB spot?)

Once a weakness, now a strength. The whole darn D depth has improved beyond belief.
Little bit of rebuild next year for the interior DL and LB positions, and our DBs will need to be up to the challenge of leading. If they take on the attitude of Alohi, it's going to be fun!

 

[NDohio]

Once a weakness, now a strength. The whole darn D depth has improved beyond belief.
Little bit of rebuild next year for the interior DL and LB positions, and our DBs will need to be up to the challenge of leading. If they take on the attitude of Alohi, it's going to be fun!

Remember when the consensus was that Todd Lyght wasn't getting it done?

 

[PANDFAN]

I think Terry Joseph has been a nice addition

 

[NDIrish88]

Remember when the consensus was that Todd Lyght wasn't getting it done?

Yes he finally came through. . . .

 

[BabyIrish]

Remember when the consensus was that Todd Lyght wasn't getting it done?

I think it's quite possible for coaches to grow and evolve too. The criticism at the beginning could have been fairly warranted, and the additions of Elko/Lea have helped him grow and mature to become a better coach and recruiter. In fact I'm pretty sure Kelly said as much recently in one of his pressers.

 

[stlnd01]

This will pay dividends in USC games, in particular, for the foreseeable future.

Now if we can just keep landing/developing pass rushers...

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

This will pay dividends in USC games, in particular, for the foreseeable future.

Now if we can just keep landing/developing pass rushers...

Yes, we always want to point at a specific position but we need to recruit everyone position well if we want to make playoff runs. There can't be a weakness against teams like Bama and Clemson.

It finally looks like all three levels of the defense are being stockpiled. Now I want to see our RB/WR recruiting take off. We need elite speed at those positions as well.

 

[NDohio]

Remember when the consensus was that Todd Lyght wasn't getting it done?

Yes he finally came through. . . .

I think it's quite possible for coaches to grow and evolve too. The criticism at the beginning could have been fairly warranted, and the additions of Elko/Lea have helped him grow and mature to become a better coach and recruiter. In fact I'm pretty sure Kelly said as much recently in one of his pressers.

Sorry, should have been more specific in the beginning... I didn't mean that the consensus was wrong, I just meant it wasn't that long ago when we were all extremely concerned about Todd Lyght's ability to both recruit and develop his position. The DB group has made a very drastic turn around in a very short time period. It wouldn't have been that long ago that this thread would have been made in reference to how bad the DBs are not how good they are.

 

[Irish YJ]

Remember when the consensus was that Todd Lyght wasn't getting it done?

Honestly, jury is still out on TL. He came on after a very bad year for our passing D (2014), but before that, it was pretty good performance wise. Depth has without a doubt improved though.

We took a step back last year, but righted the ship this year. Is that Lyght or Terry Joseph? Kerry Cooks did a pretty good job except for 2014, but Oklahoma is not looking good at all LOL coming in at 104 in passing D. I'll pile on BVG and blame him for 2014 since it was his first year.

Here's the passing D rankings from 2012 and on. Bolded are Lyght's years. TJ joined 2018.

2012 - 31
2013 - 21
2014 - 81
2015 - 26
2016 - 20
2017 - 49
2018 - 32

 

[NDMIA]

Honestly, jury is still out on TL. He came on after a very bad year for our passing D (2014), but before that, it was pretty good performance wise. Depth has without a doubt improved though.

We took a step back last year, but righted the ship this year. Is that Lyght or Terry Joseph? Kerry Cooks did a pretty good job except for 2014, but Oklahoma is not looking good at all LOL coming in at 104 in passing D. I'll pile on BVG and blame him for 2014 since it was his first year.

Here's the passing D rankings from 2012 and on. Bolded are Lyght's years. TJ joined 2018.

2012 - 31
2013 - 21
2014 - 81
2015 - 26
2016 - 20
2017 - 49
2018 - 32

What stat category is this? Total passing yards allowed? If so, I hate that stat. There’s so much more to pass defense than one big number to define your DB’s. For example, Notre Dame is 126/130 in pass attempts per game given up. They have no control over the opponents play call but most opponents throw on them more than any other team in the FBS. So the yards given up doesn’t necessarily define their DB’s. Here’s a better look at ND’s DB group.

Opponent Passing Yards Per Game: 31st
Opponent Completion Percentage: 31st
Opponent Team Passer Rating: 4th
Opponent Yards Per Pass Attempt: 2nd
Opponents Yard Per Completion: 2nd

These can show you that with ND being almost dead last in pass attempts per game, they will give up some yards eventually. But in terms of the average pass given up (Yards Per Pass Attempt/Completion) and effectiveness of the passing game (Passer Rating) they are truly an elite unit. Overall I’d say they are a very very good unit when combining all the stats together. They give up short passing plays and rally to the football and tackle effectively. I’d rather be elite in those categories than be Clemson and be elite in completion percentage rankings but not so good at all in yards per completion which is signaling they can give up the big play (which they do).

 

[Irish YJ]

What stat category is this? Total passing yards allowed? If so, I hate that stat. There’s so much more to pass defense than one big number to define your DB’s. For example, Notre Dame is 126/130 in pass attempts per game given up. They have no control over the opponents play call but most opponents throw on them more than any other team in the FBS. So the yards given up doesn’t necessarily define their DB’s. Here’s a better look at ND’s DB group.

Opponent Passing Yards Per Game: 31st
Opponent Completion Percentage: 31st
Opponent Team Passer Rating: 4th
Opponent Yards Per Pass Attempt: 2nd
Opponents Yard Per Completion: 2nd

These can show you that with ND being almost dead last in pass attempts per game, they will give up some yards eventually. But in terms of the average pass given up (Yards Per Pass Attempt/Completion) and effectiveness of the passing game (Passer Rating) they are truly an elite unit. Overall I’d say they are a very very good unit when combining all the stats together. They give up short passing plays and rally to the football and tackle effectively. I’d rather be elite in those categories than be Clemson and be elite in completion percentage rankings but not so good at all in yards per completion which is signaling they can give up the big play (which they do).

I love advanced stats, etc, but.... I'm still a fan of the simple things. Yards (passing or rusing, or total) are still the clearest indicator in D accept for maybe pts/game.

And I disagree we can't impact play calling. I'd argue that offensive play calling is a product of 3 things. 1) what your O does well, 2) what is the weak part of the D you are facing, and 3) need/situation (are you down 3TDs, or up 3TDs).

If for instance you are known to play soft, or bend but don't break, you're probably going to give up a lot of short to intermediate passes (like against FSU). If you press at the line and can't get a rush, you're probably going to give up some long passes.

From a need perspective, a D goes conservative when they are up late. An O passes when down late.

In short, a lot of things go into the numbers, but at the end of the day, elite passing Ds have lower passing yards than others. It's when you are comparing teams vs each other, that you really need to drill down on other more advanced stats.

 

[dad4aa]

I love advanced stats, etc, but.... I'm still a fan of the simple things. Yards (passing or rusing, or total) are still the clearest indicator in D accept for maybe pts/game.

And I disagree we can't impact play calling. I'd argue that offensive play calling is a product of 3 things. 1) what your O does well, 2) what is the weak part of the D you are facing, and 3) need/situation (are you down 3TDs, or up 3TDs).

If for instance you are known to play soft, or bend but don't break, you're probably going to give up a lot of short to intermediate passes (like against FSU). If you press at the line and can't get a rush, you're probably going to give up some long passes.

From a need perspective, a D goes conservative when they are up late. An O passes when down late.

In short, a lot of things go into the numbers, but at the end of the day, elite passing Ds have lower passing yards than others. It's when you are comparing teams vs each other, that you really need to drill down on other more advanced stats.

IDK, I think I am more in NDMIA's camp. If a team has a strong rush defense that limits a team's only option to passing...that defense will most likely give up more YPG than a team who has a weak rushing defense who is never passed on. Number of pass attempts definitely is a factor when looking at the YPG. I like the stats he quoted and it shows are passing defense is pretty solid.