Dec 19 | ACC Championship | Clemson

[NDRock]

Because our QBs are at best above average. Book is not good enough to win a playoff game. It took the game of his life to beat a hobbled Clemson in double OT.

We need a 5 star QB. We need our Watson/Lawrence/Tua/Fields/Hurts/Mayfield/Murray/Uiagalelei/Trask/Jones/etc

Until we get one of those types of dudes we will never be more than a tier 2 program.

The thing that's concerning is that BK seems content to go with workman like QBs like Book.

He gets you 10-11 wins and that gets you a nice extension.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm not going to critique qb play.

But, we must work in more vertical threat to our playing book... The dink and dunk ground and pounds for 99 percent of the country, but we're going to need some qb chunk passes to get to that next level.

I'm on the Buchner train. So I'm hopeful.

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[Irishize]

Lets not overlook our OL wasn't 100% in this one, and Clemson had some key defensive players back. We were getting dominated in the trenches this game, we weren't as physical as we were previously. Maybe it was a lack of motivation, but some of Book's struggles can likely be pinned on blocking woes, Clemson certainly came out looking for blood. A lot of blame can go around, but there's certainly a talent gap at certain positions. It's just one part of the puzzle though.

A lot of us have been warning about the OL since the UNC game (the 1st one w/o Patterson). We heard all week how horrible UNC’s defense was yet the OL couldn’t get a dominant push to open the run game until later in the game. This was one of the worst defenses in the nation. Then we were told by the ND media that they could name their score against Syracuse. Yet the OL looked pedestrian again. Sure the final stats in both of those games didn’t give most fans any pause but if you truly watched those games, there was no doubt the OL had taken a step back. So do you really think Lugg is going to turn into a good enough center to hold an elite DL in the time between now & when they face Bama?

 

[IrishLax]

A lot of us have been warning about the OL since the UNC game (the 1st one w/o Patterson). We heard all week how horrible UNC’s offense was yet the OL couldn’t get a dominant push to open the run game until later in the game. This was one of the worst defenses in the nation. Then we were told by the ND media that they could name their score against Syracuse. Yet the OL looked pedestrian again. Sure the final stats in both of those games didn’t give most fans any pause but if you truly watched those games, there was no doubt the OL had taken a step back. So do you really think Lugg is going to turn into a good enough center to hold an elite DL in the time between now & when they face Bama?

Yeah, the OL is completely disjointed without Patterson. Snaps are bad, protections are bad, blocking is bad. I don't see how that gets fixed in two weeks.

 

[ulukinatme]

Because our QBs are at best above average. Book is not good enough to win a playoff game. It took the game of his life to beat a hobbled Clemson in double OT.

We need a 5 star QB. We need our Watson/Lawrence/Tua/Fields/Hurts/Mayfield/Murray/Uiagalelei/Trask/Jones/etc

Until we get one of those types of dudes we will never be more than a tier 2 program.

The thing that's concerning is that BK seems content to go with workman like QBs like Book.

It's harder to land the next Trevor Lawrence than you'd expect, especially if you're not Alabama, Clemson, or OSU. In any given year there's only a few QBs that truly emerge as one of these "elite" guys, and it's usually a fresh starter at one of those 3 programs. Even Burrow was a transfer from tOSU because he couldn't get playing time. You may land a "5 Star" guy at other programs, there's no guarantee he doesn't tear his ACL like Crist or fails to live up to his potential. Credit BK and Book for achieving as much as they have honestly.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

He's talking about offense?

Notre Dame vs Alabama would get ugly. Notre Dame cannot cover those WRs or compete in a shootout.

Yeah no shit he’s talking about offense and my answer had nothing to do with a ND/Bama matchup.

Bama runs on everyone because you can’t load the box against them.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Yeah no shit he’s talking about offense and my answer had nothing to do with a ND/Bama matchup.

Bama runs on everyone because you can’t load the box against them.

Maybe ND should recruit better QB's and receivers then. I think that would be a really good idea instead of using Northwestern transfers and guys who should be playing at vanderbilt.

 

[Irishize]

We’re not outmatched at every position and I reject the notion that the overall talent gap is as wide as the score indicates.

Otherwise, we would’ve never won the first game.

BK has definitely improved the program from 2010. I’m thankful for that. But something keeps coming back to me from the BCS NC game after the 2012 season that he stated: (paraphrasing) “We need to get where Alabama is”

When you fast forward from 2012 to today, ND is w/o a doubt a better program but that same ND program will get beaten just as bad by 2020 Bama as the Irish did by that 2012 squad (who was pretty damn good).

So why is the chasm between Bama & ND still so wide? Not saying ND should be equal to Bama...that will likely never happen...at least while Saban is there. But they still can’t even compete on the field w/ Bama and everyone who’s being honest with themselves knows this & they know it’s coming if ND gets matched up with them.

Here’s what one of the key players from that 2012 team had to say about today’s blowout:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Welp, another embarrassment once again. Starting to get ridiculous actually. Every single year <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NDFootball</a> . I don’t know what the remedy is to get this changed but it’s embarrassing</p>— Keivarae Russell (@Keivarae1) <a href="https://twitter.com/Keivarae1/status/1340438106714107905?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Sea Turtle]

It's harder to land the next Trevor Lawrence than you'd expect, especially if you're not Alabama, Clemson, or OSU. In any given year there's only a few QBs that truly emerge as one of these "elite" guys, and it's usually a fresh starter at one of those 3 programs. Even Burrow was a transfer from tOSU because he couldn't get playing time. You may land a "5 Star" guy at other programs, there's no guarantee he doesn't tear his ACL like Crist or fails to live up to his potential. Credit BK and Book for achieving as much as they have honestly.

No reason not to have a couple of Trasks and Mac Jones on the roster. Our starter is Rudy and our backup is a shorter Rudy.

Can we at least get the older brother who stole his girlfriend on the roster?

 

[Irishize]

No reason not to have a couple of Trasks and Mac Jones on the roster. Our starter is Rudy and our backup is a shorter Rudy.

Can we at least get the older brother who stole his girlfriend on the roster?

Don’t worry, ND will take all the disrespect & the high point spread that they’ll be favored to lose by and use that to muster up some good old fashioned “What tho the odds” Irish magic and....never mind that’s either from a movie or from ND 30 years ago.

 

[Irishbounty28]

All I am asking for is a QB who can be successful within the confines of the offense first, and maybe have some magic when needed. It doesn’t necessarily have to be an all world guy, but one that will sack up and throw a ball to a receiver in single coverage.

Trask is a great QB for Florida. If anyone watched that game though he threw to one on one receivers who were not “open” quite often and let them make plays. Before someone says “well yeah Florida has good receivers”, it isn’t like ND’s receivers haven’t shown a penitent to win 50/50 balls this year. Heck that is why ND won the first Clemson game. Give me a dude with brass balls that will sling it any day of the week, not a dude who expects players to be as open as they were in high school.

 

[ulukinatme]

All I am asking for is a QB who can be successful within the confines of the offense first, and maybe have some magic when needed. It doesn’t necessarily have to be an all world guy, but one that will sack up and throw a ball to a receiver in single coverage.

Trask is a great QB for Florida. If anyone watched that game though he threw to one on one receivers who were not “open” quite often and let them make plays. Before someone says “well yeah Florida has good receivers”, it isn’t like ND’s receivers haven’t shown a penitent to win 50/50 balls this year. Heck that is why ND won the first Clemson game. Give me a dude with brass balls that will sling it any day of the week, not a dude who expects players to be as open as they were in high school.

Lawrence didn't really have to throw 50/50 balls today. His receivers were wide open.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Lawrence didn't really have to throw 50/50 balls today. His receivers were wide open.

He did complete a few 50/50 balls. One resulted in a pretty amazing one handed catch. Essentially u need a few a game because they tend to be the difference between a big play or punt/turnover on downs. Also, let’s just say I agree with the premise ND couldn’t sniff Clemsons jock(I don’t), and the receivers just couldn’t get open because of elite coverage. This would only strengthen the case for those 50/50 shots, because without them u have zero percent chance of making a play.

Again, love the guys on the team and tomorrow is a different day, but I can’t help but feel there was a ton left on the field today.

 

[IrishLax]

He did complete a few 50/50 balls. One resulted in a pretty amazing one handed catch. Essentially u need a few a game because they tend to be the difference between a big play or punt/turnover on downs. Also, let’s just say I agree with the premise ND couldn’t sniff Clemsons jock(I don’t), and the receivers just couldn’t get open because of elite coverage. This would only strengthen the case for those 50/50 shots, because without them u have zero percent chance of making a play.

Again, love the guys on the team and tomorrow is a different day, but I can’t help but feel there was a ton left on the field today.

ND "could have" been up 10-0 quite easily to start the game, and then also screwed themselves on the missed connection to Avery Davis that left another 3-7 point on the field. For those three drives, ND played successful football but a lack of execution meant no points. Then Clemson made some adjustments and here are the next five drives while Clemson pulled away:
3 plays, -3 yards
4 plays, 16 yards
3 plays, -11 yards
5 plays, 12 yards
4 plays, 25 yards

Brent Venables did to Tommy Rees what Clark Lea did to UNC a couple weeks back. And that's not really all that surprising when you have the best in the business against a 1st year OC.

Clemson finished the game with 6 "successful" drives (i.e. moved the ball successfully down the field into scoring range where you'd expect to get points) to Notre Dame's 4. You'd expect a 1-2 score victory for Clemson, instead it was a total blowout. Why? One team has explosive playmakers that scored 3 TDs of 30+ yards and the other does not. One team makes you defend the entire field, the other does not. There was a large talent difference between the two sides at the skill positions but ND was capable of competing in that game they just didn't execute.

 

[NorthDakota]

He did complete a few 50/50 balls. One resulted in a pretty amazing one handed catch. Essentially u need a few a game because they tend to be the difference between a big play or punt/turnover on downs. Also, let’s just say I agree with the premise ND couldn’t sniff Clemsons jock(I don’t), and the receivers just couldn’t get open because of elite coverage. This would only strengthen the case for those 50/50 shots, because without them u have zero percent chance of making a play.

Again, love the guys on the team and tomorrow is a different day, but I can’t help but feel there was a ton left on the field today.

The offense scoring 3 points outside of garbage time is 100% embarrassing in 2020. Football is so offensively driven right now and a program like ND should assume they can grab 28 points minimum against anyone.

Tomorrow is a different day is true but ND's line play isn't very good right now and I can't help but think its not going to suddenly get good again. Honestly...I wouldn't be mad if they tried a different center out in whatever bowl game we got.

ND's offensive identity is 100% built around controlling the LOS and we don't have anywhere near the talent necessary at the skill positions to get around even average line play. At least not in games against elite competition.

It's really frustrating because I think pre-Patterson injury, ND was in a position where games like today would be a borderline impossibility unless Book completely shit the bed and threw 4 picks.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

This game was an embarrassment I would much rather not get into the playoffs I wouldn’t be confident playing Florida or Oklahoma in a bowl game right now. The main reasons why this team got killed.
1. Lugg is not a center. The first game Book had more time in the pocket and took chances. This game he was running scared because pressure was getting there quick.
2. Lack of execution. Not scoring touchdowns on the first 3 drives killed us.
3. Our secondary is no where close to being able to play with the big boys.
4. The play calling by Rees was suspect and not good.
5. We need more speed. Why didn’t Jordan johnson get snaps this year? Where was keys and lenzy yesterday

 

[FWIrish4]

So I noticed something in the Syracuse game that I think is affecting the offense as well. Lugg’s snap are incredibly slow getting back to Book when he’s in shot gun. As a former QB this has been driving me nuts.

It may not seem like a big deal but this completely throws off the timing of the play. I also think this has affected Book’s dropbacks too. It seemed like this game and the Syracuse game, he wasn’t getting as deep in his dropbacks as the first Clemson game. Go back and look at the film.

Book having to wait and keep his eyes off the field for just a split second seem to be affecting the efficiency of the offense, which only gets worse when you face the top defense in the country.

I know that wasn’t the only problem today, but it’s little things that add up in a big game today and it’s frustrating to me that this wasn’t fixed with two weeks to prepare.

 

[Irish#1]

Patterson wouldn’t have won the game for us, but he would have made a big difference in the offense.

 

[tko]

Let's not attempt a pass to Ben or Javon in the redzone.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Two key sequences that had me shaking my head.
1st and goal and we run 3 times didn’t make any sense.
2nd and 1 and we decide to throw the ball

 

[Sea Turtle]

Patterson wouldn’t have won the game for us, but he would have made a big difference in the offense.

Alabama just lost their starting center. Somehow I don't expect their offense to miss a beat.

 

[texbender]

ND "could have" been up 10-0 quite easily to start the game, and then also screwed themselves on the missed connection to Avery Davis that left another 3-7 point on the field. For those three drives, ND played successful football but a lack of execution meant no points. Then Clemson made some adjustments and here are the next five drives while Clemson pulled away:
3 plays, -3 yards
4 plays, 16 yards
3 plays, -11 yards
5 plays, 12 yards
4 plays, 25 yards

Brent Venables did to Tommy Rees what Clark Lea did to UNC a couple weeks back. And that's not really all that surprising when you have the best in the business against a 1st year OC.

Clemson finished the game with 6 "successful" drives (i.e. moved the ball successfully down the field into scoring range where you'd expect to get points) to Notre Dame's 4. You'd expect a 1-2 score victory for Clemson, instead it was a total blowout. Why? One team has explosive playmakers that scored 3 TDs of 30+ yards and the other does not. One team makes you defend the entire field, the other does not. There was a large talent difference between the two sides at the skill positions but ND was capable of competing in that game they just didn't execute.

I think you nailed it on many aspects. In a game like this vs this type of opponent there is no room error. Not scoring a TD on first drive, missing an extra point FG attempt, missing a wide open Davis....these all add up to missed opportunities. They did a great job of never allowing Book to settle in. TL was the difference, and our secondary was exposed. Might be even worse if we are matched up against Bama.

 

[irishff1014]

ND "could have" been up 10-0 quite easily to start the game, and then also screwed themselves on the missed connection to Avery Davis that left another 3-7 point on the field. For those three drives, ND played successful football but a lack of execution meant no points. Then Clemson made some adjustments and here are the next five drives while Clemson pulled away:
3 plays, -3 yards
4 plays, 16 yards
3 plays, -11 yards
5 plays, 12 yards
4 plays, 25 yards

Brent Venables did to Tommy Rees what Clark Lea did to UNC a couple weeks back. And that's not really all that surprising when you have the best in the business against a 1st year OC.

Clemson finished the game with 6 "successful" drives (i.e. moved the ball successfully down the field into scoring range where you'd expect to get points) to Notre Dame's 4. You'd expect a 1-2 score victory for Clemson, instead it was a total blowout. Why? One team has explosive playmakers that scored 3 TDs of 30+ yards and the other does not. One team makes you defend the entire field, the other does not. There was a large talent difference between the two sides at the skill positions but ND was capable of competing in that game they just didn't execute.

But that’s Tommy. He has had some games he called really good games and than games that left you scratching your head. But you have or had how ever you want to look at it a head coach that should step in and say get your shit together this isn’t working.

 

[irishff1014]

This game was an embarrassment I would much rather not get into the playoffs I wouldn’t be confident playing Florida or Oklahoma in a bowl game right now. The main reasons why this team got killed.
1. Lugg is not a center. The first game Book had more time in the pocket and took chances. This game he was running scared because pressure was getting there quick.
2. Lack of execution. Not scoring touchdowns on the first 3 drives killed us.
3. Our secondary is no where close to being able to play with the big boys.
4. The play calling by Rees was suspect and not good.
5. We need more speed. Why didn’t Jordan johnson get snaps this year? Where was keys and lenzy yesterday

#3 and people want Joesph to be the DC? Why?

 

[Southside Sully]

What everyone think of Luggs performance at Center last night? I felt he was getting blown up a lot, and just looked uncomfortable.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

What everyone think of Luggs performance at Center last night? I felt he was getting blown up a lot, and just looked uncomfortable.

He definitely struggled. It’s not a natural position for him. If Zeke is 100% healthy he should start the next game.


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[ThePiombino]

What everyone think of Luggs performance at Center last night? I felt he was getting blown up a lot, and just looked uncomfortable.

It's his worst position by far

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[NDisme]

Alabama just lost their starting center. Somehow I don't expect their offense to miss a beat.

And to me that is the issue. Same as losing Julian Love in ‘18 cotton bowl.... just fall apart. Basically for us to Win big games, everyone needs to be healthy and we would need the best coaching staff in the country. Neither is happening

 

[Sherm Sticky]

And to me that is the issue. Same as losing Julian Love in &#145;18 cotton bowl.... just fall apart. Basically for us to Win big games, everyone needs to be healthy and we would need the best coaching staff in the country. Neither is happening

It’s not that ND lost it’s starting center. It’s the fact that the backup center then got injured, meaning a 3rd string center who is really a guard/tackle had to play center.


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[IrishLax]

And to me that is the issue. Same as losing Julian Love in ‘18 cotton bowl.... just fall apart. Basically for us to Win big games, everyone needs to be healthy and we would need the best coaching staff in the country. Neither is happening

It's alarming, because it proves how depth is a mirage. The truth is that at most position the gap between the "key starter" and the "next guy in" is fucking massive. I had no idea Jarrett Patterson was one of those guys. I did know that Hamilton, McCloud, JOK, and Book are.

The only positions on this team with true depth are DL... which is crazy to say going back to the roster Kelly inherited and a testament to Mike Elston... BUCK linebacker (because none of the three are really refined/impact players right now); and TE. That's it.

Alabama loses Jaylen freaking Waddle and doesn't miss a beat.