Current Format vs BCS Format?

[stlnd01]

I would stop watching college football if there was no champion. I shit you not.

And I think 90% of Americans would do the same thing.

Seriously? Why? I know you're not like that clown who started this thread who stops watching Notre Dame after they lose a game. So many great games all the time involving teams with no shot of winning the title.

On a side note: I don't know why so many people (not nec. GK, but his comment reminds me of this) seem to want to want college ball to be more like the NFL. The NFL, frankly, sucks.

 

[koonja]

To those saying 8-team would ruin the regular season - I disagree. Look at who finished top 8 last year. 6 of the teams were 1 loss, and 2 were 2-loss. Knowing you can only drop 2 games at worst (and have to still have a solid resume with solid wins/not ugly losses) does not negate the interest of the regular season IMO:

2014 NCAA College Football Polls and Rankings for Week 16 - ESPN

Even more support that regular season matters when you go back to 2013. The last team in would be Mizzou who had their 2nd loss in the SEC champ game, and wins over Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Ole Miss, and Texas AM. Close losses to South Carolina and Auburn. That's deserving of a shot IMO:

2013 NCAA College Football Polls and Rankings for Week 16 - ESPN

Side note - I don't like 6 games. Having a bye is such an advantage, when the difference between 2/3 is arbitrary and the 3rd ranked team might very well be better than the 2nd ranked team. You either go 4 team or 8 team.

 

[wizards8507]

Prior to 1998 we had the polls. If we had it your way those wouldn't even exist, right?

Of course polls would exist. The Associated Press is an independent entity from "college football." "College football" deregulating their postseason wouldn't have any impact over what the AP chooses to publish. If the AP wants to give out a trophy, fine. So can ESPN, Bleacher Report, and the Atlanta Journal Constitution. If some group of people wants to say "this team is the best team of 2015," fine. What I object to is trying to do it through official "THIS IS HOW IT IS, PERIOD" channels.

 

[gkIrish]

Seriously? Why? I know you're not like that clown who started this thread who stops watching Notre Dame after they lose a game. So many great games all the time involving teams with no shot of winning the title.

On a side note: I don't know why so many people (not nec. GK, but his comment reminds me of this) seem to want to want college ball to be more like the NFL. The NFL, frankly, sucks.

If you told me that the end of the season would just end and there would be no team declared a champion that would suck away all the enjoyment I get from being a sports fan. My ultimate goal every season is to win a championship. Taking that away would really make it all fairly meaningless.

I love watching college football games for the sake of watching them. But if there is nothing to strive for, then the excitement diminishes. I still watch ND games after we lose 2+ games because we are striving to win a championship next year, or the year after that. So those games still mean something in terms of recruiting, player development, etc.

 

[Monk]

What are you getting at, exactly? Your implication would mean that nobody watched a Notre Dame football game prior to 1998.

Not at all. He said is it really that serious to have a Champion. Why do these teams play the game? They play to win a championship. When that is not possible they then play to win the best bowl game they can hope to get. Don't we all watch ND with the hopes they win the game and have the highest possible rank they deserve. If you take away a champion then what's the point of rankings? Then what's the point of watching if you don't care if your team is considered better then the other teams. Even when ND was in the horrible 3-9 stretch, I still watched with hopes of seeing something to build on for next year. Isn't that why we follow recruiting? To see if we can get the top talent and continue our winning ways toward a National Championship? Without a championship I don't see the point.

Even in the sports you play today, whether it is more physical (football, basketball, etc.) or something less physical (golf, etc.) don't you play the game to win it. If you are in a league isn't there a champion that each team strives to become?

Prior to 1998 ND could and did win NC. Take that away and watch the fan base dwindle.

 

[wizards8507]

To those saying 8-team would ruin the regular season - I disagree. Look at who finished top 8 last year. 6 of the teams were 1 loss, and 2 were 2-loss. Knowing you can only drop 2 games at worst (and have to still have a solid resume with solid wins/not ugly losses) does not negate the interest of the regular season IMO.

We're one week removed from a perfect example of how the playoff dilutes the regular season. Notre Dame - Clemson.

Four team playoff: Losing hurts... it makes it tough to get back into the conversation and we probably have to win out to have a shot at the playoff.

Eight team playoff: If we lose, no big deal. We can probably drop another close one and still have a shot.

No playoff: STRESS! HYPE! PUUUUMPED. LOSER IS ELIMINATED. BEAT CLEMSON. F DABO.

When there's no playoff, these top-10 matchups become de facto playoff games in the middle of October, with all the hype, stakes, and excitement that go with it.

 

[koonja]

We're one week removed from a perfect example of how the playoff dilutes the regular season. Notre Dame - Clemson.

Four team playoff: Losing hurts... it makes it tough to get back into the conversation and we probably have to win out to have a shot at the playoff.

Eight team playoff: If we lose, no big deal. We can probably drop another close one and still have a shot.

No playoff: STRESS! HYPE! PUUUUMPED. LOSER IS ELIMINATED. BEAT CLEMSON. F DABO.

When there's no playoff, these top-10 matchups become de facto playoff games in the middle of October, with all the hype, stakes, and excitement that go with it.

Did you look at my referenced examples? 2 losses can absolutely ruin your chances at an 8 team playoff.

Oregon, South Carolina, Clemson, Oklahoma. ALL left out of the 8-team playoff in 2013, with only 2 losses.

 

[wizards8507]

Even in the sports you play today, whether it is more physical (football, basketball, etc.) or something less physical (golf, etc.) don't you play the game to win it. If you are in a league isn't there a champion that each team strives to become?

Nope. I play volleyball a few times a week. We don't have teams, we just divide up when we get there and play for a couple of hours. Sure, we try to win the games we play that night. But there's no meta pursuit of standings or ranking or championship.

Prior to 1998 ND could and did win NC. Take that away and watch the fan base dwindle.

1. There'd still be polls, voters, public opinion, and trophies. It just wouldn't be this futile pursuit of consensus, which there'll never be.

2. I'd welcome a dwindling fanbase if the folks who were leaving are the ones who are only in it for the titles. Hell, I'd welcome a dwindling fanbase if the folks who were leaving are the ones who are only in it for the football in any form.

 

[wizards8507]

Oregon, South Carolina, Clemson, Oklahoma. ALL left out of the 8-team playoff in 2013, with only 2 losses.

The "con" column is very long when we talk about an expanded playoff. In this case, all of the controversy that this system was supposed to eliminate is back in full force.

 

[Monk]

We're one week removed from a perfect example of how the playoff dilutes the regular season. Notre Dame - Clemson.

Four team playoff: Losing hurts... it makes it tough to get back into the conversation and we probably have to win out to have a shot at the playoff.

Eight team playoff: If we lose, no big deal. We can probably drop another close one and still have a shot.

No playoff: STRESS! HYPE! PUUUUMPED. LOSER IS ELIMINATED. BEAT CLEMSON. F DABO.

When there's no playoff, these top-10 matchups become de facto playoff games in the middle of October, with all the hype, stakes, and excitement that go with it.

This is a true statement. The problem with it is not every top 10 team plays another top ten team. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[koonja]

The "con" column is very long when we talk about an expanded playoff. In this case, all of the controversy that this system was supposed to eliminate is back in full force.

That's fine, but like I said in my post, I'm specifically talking about the idea that the regular season games wouldn't be important. They absolutely would still matter. Those are big time college programs being left out with 2 losses in an 8 team playoff.

 

[wizards8507]

This is a true statement. The problem with it is not every top 10 team plays another top ten team. That doesn't make sense to me.

Top ten ISH then. #6 ND at #12 Clemson counts. Every team out there has at least one of those.

 

[wizards8507]

That's fine, but like I said in my post, I'm specifically talking about the idea that the regular season games wouldn't be important. They absolutely would still matter. Those are big time college programs being left out with 2 losses in an 8 team playoff.

And like I said in my post, definitely getting eliminated with a single loss is a lot more dramatic than maybe getting eliminated with two losses.

 

[gkIrish]

And like I said in my post, definitely getting eliminated with a single loss is a lot more dramatic than maybe getting eliminated with two losses.

And a quarterfinals matchup between 13-0 Ohio St. vs. 11-1 Florida St. is A LOT more exciting than an 11-1 Florida St. vs. a 10-2 Oklahoma in the Cotton Bowl for bragging rights only.

 

[Monk]

Nope. I play volleyball a few times a week. We don't have teams, we just divide up when we get there and play for a couple of hours. Sure, we try to win the games we play that night. But there's no meta pursuit of standings or ranking or championship.


1. There'd still be polls, voters, public opinion, and trophies. It just wouldn't be this futile pursuit of consensus, which there'll never be.

2. I'd welcome a dwindling fanbase if the folks who were leaving are the ones who are only in it for the titles. Hell, I'd welcome a dwindling fanbase if the folks who were leaving are the ones who are only in it for the football in any form.

You still try and win the game which is the highest level you can obtain in your scenario. Hard to have a champion if you are not in a league. Tell me about one league you know of that doesn't have a champion.

1. If you have polls then you would still have a champion, which is what this started from. I don't care if you don't want to recognize the champion, that is you right, but there still is a champion.

2. So let me get this right. You want to put something into place that the majority of fans would not want (no champion which is what my comment came from) so that you personally can be happier with the final outcome of a college football season? That sounds a little one tracked.

 

[gkIrish]

And like I said in my post, definitely getting eliminated with a single loss is a lot more dramatic than maybe getting eliminated with two losses.

Furthermore, in your scenario, if ND is 9-2 going into the game @ USC and USC is also 9-2, the game is not nearly as exciting if there was no playoff. Both teams are completely out of it. But if there's a playoffs, there is a very real chance the winner makes it and the game is 100x as hyped as it would be without a playoff.

So in your scenario you lose some marginal excitement in week 3 but games in week 12 mean nothing.

 

[Monk]

Top ten ISH then. #6 ND at #12 Clemson counts. Every team out there has at least one of those.

Being a top ten team in week one does not make you a top ten team for the season.

 

[wizards8507]

Furthermore, in your scenario, if ND is 9-2 going into the game @ USC and USC is also 9-2, the game is not nearly as exciting if there was no playoff. Both teams are completely out of it. But if there's a playoffs, there is a very real chance the winner makes it and the game is 100x as hyped as it would be without a playoff.

So in your scenario you lose some marginal excitement in week 3 but games in week 12 mean nothing.

Admittedly, Notre Dame is a poor example in this whole thing because we don't play for a conference championship. We're the only ones for whom the playoff is the only measure of a successful season. Replace "Notre Dame" in your example with "UCLA" and it's back to a case where the lack of a playoff adds to the excitement. In that case, the Pac 12 south is on the line, meaning a trip to the conference championship game and, ultimately, the Rose Bowl. With the Rose Bowl back to the pedestal it deserves, that matters plenty.

 

[kmoose]

But if there is nothing to strive for, then the excitement diminishes.

No one said that they wouldn't keep score. There is still winning the game to strive for.

 

[wizards8507]

Being a top ten team in week one does not make you a top ten team for the season.

But you don't know what the final ranking will be when the game is played. I'm talking about playoff-caliber excitement occurring mid-season, meaning mid-season perception is what generates the hype. Obviously most teams that finish in the top ten didn't play many other teams that finish in the top ten because, if they had, one of them would have lost and wouldn't be in the top ten any longer.

 

[Monk]

But you don't know what the final ranking will be when the game is played. I'm talking about playoff-caliber excitement occurring mid-season, meaning mid-season perception is what generates the hype. Obviously most teams that finish in the top ten didn't play many other teams that finish in the top ten because, if they had, one of them would have lost and wouldn't be in the top ten any longer.

Hence why you make them play each other at the end of the season and not reward them for playing poor competition.

Edit: I'm not saying a game like ND - Clemson wouldn't count as I believe they are two good teams, but in the first couple of weeks in the season there are some "top ten" teams that are not even close. They can not be counted as a good win.

 

[wizards8507]

Hence why you make them play each other at the end of the season and not reward them for playing poor competition.

...except that they "earned" the opportunity to play one another at the end of the season by playing poor competition in the first place.

 

[ulukinatme]

What is the reason you watch ND football games?

I'm a masochist....

Monk, all you had to know is he's a Browns fan, that should say everything.

I pretty much gave up rooting for an NFL/MLB team after growing up near Cleveland. Being an Irish fan can be painful enough. Now I just root for alumni to do well at the next level.

 

[Monk]

...except that they "earned" the opportunity to play one another at the end of the season by playing poor competition in the first place.

Some do, but then if they are not a good enough team to actually be there they are exposed when they play in the playoffs. You can't hide from top competition in a playoff.

 

[Monk]

Monk, all you had to know is he's a Browns fan, that should say everything.

I pretty much gave up rooting for an NFL/MLB team after growing up near Cleveland. Being an Irish fan can be painful enough. Now I just root for alumni to do well at the next level.

Listen, I know all to well as a Bills fan. The only thing that keeps me coming back is the blind hope that one day they will compete in January.

 

[gkIrish]

Admittedly, Notre Dame is a poor example in this whole thing because we don't play for a conference championship. We're the only ones for whom the playoff is the only measure of a successful season. Replace "Notre Dame" in your example with "UCLA" and it's back to a case where the lack of a playoff adds to the excitement. In that case, the Pac 12 south is on the line, meaning a trip to the conference championship game and, ultimately, the Rose Bowl. With the Rose Bowl back to the pedestal it deserves, that matters plenty.

It's not just ND. South Carolina and Clemson play towards the end of the year most of the time. Florida and Florida St. also play late. Those aren't conference games. I'd rather watch a 9-2 Florida vs. 9-2 Florida St. with a playoff berth on the line. I may not even watch that game if there's nothing to play for besides bragging rights.

 

[ulukinatme]

Listen, I know all to well as a Bills fan. The only thing that keeps me coming back is the blind hope that one day they will compete in January.

Please, the Browns have never even BEEN to a Super Bowl. While the Bills have struggled, at least they've been there 4 times. Browns finished last in the AFC North 11 times out of the 15 seasons since they've been resurrected. Other than a fluke season in 2002, the Browns have only been to the playoffs one time since the 80s. Bills may have struggled the last 15 years, but the 90s were pretty good to them at least in comparison.

 

[ACamp1900]

It's not just ND. South Carolina and Clemson play towards the end of the year most of the time. Florida and Florida St. also play late. Those aren't conference games. I'd rather watch a 9-2 Florida vs. 9-2 Florida St. with a playoff berth on the line. I may not even watch that game if there's nothing to play for besides bragging rights.

It seems you are concerned with entertainment value, we are concerned with validity, legitimacy and history... our arguments are coming from different starting points.

 

[ACamp1900]

Please, the Browns have never even BEEN to a Super Bowl. While the Bills have struggled, at least they've been there 4 times. Browns finished last in the AFC North 11 times out of the 15 seasons since they've been resurrected. Other than a fluke season in 2002, the Browns have only been to the playoffs one time since the 80s. Bills may have struggled the last 15 years, but the 90s were pretty good to them at least in comparison.

We kicked their ass in 89....... Thank you Clay Matthews....

 

[Monk]

Please, the Browns have never even BEEN to a Super Bowl. While the Bills have struggled, at least they've been there 4 times. Browns finished last in the AFC North 11 times out of the 15 seasons since they've been resurrected. Other than a fluke season in 2002, the Browns have only been to the playoffs one time since the 80s. Bills may have struggled the last 15 years, but the 90s were pretty good to them at least in comparison.

That is true. They had a good run and I'm sure it is just the homer in me, but every year I think the Bills have a shot at the playoffs. It has been a long time since I've looked at the Brown's and said that is a good team right there. Again Buffalo is probably seen in the same light coming from a GB or NE fan.