Culture

[connor_in]

Former Irish President Says Baptism Violates A Baby’s Human Rights

 

[Ndaccountant]

Ok. Again, from what I have seen the “PC” crowd isn’t pushing to “hide” or “bury” any one groups “history”. What I have seen is an effort to push other histories to the fore and or questioning who and what is being celebrated, venorated and memorialized. I think that is a good thing. They are also advocating discussing “hurtful” facts like the realities of the institutions and social order the confederacy for instance was fighting to defend.

Again in the specific case of the Civil War if we are going to be honest many Southerners have engaged in these same “PC” history erasing tactics present day “PC Police” are being accused of to obfuscate what they were actually supporting, fighting and dying for, white supremacy. Should we celebrate and memorialize that? I don’t think we should.

If the country wants to do that, go all in. It's not just the Civil War. For example...

1) Make the SF 49ers change their name. The impact and treatment of Native Americans is something we should not be memorializing through sport.

2) Christopher Columbus - Reminder of the 9M+ natives there were lost as a result of colonization.

3) George Washington - Slave owner and person who ordered the decimation of British Iroquois, who he considered to be sub-human. Washington's slaves went on to fight for the British, but both he and Jefferson specifically went out to reclaim their "property" once the British surrendered.

4) Thomas Jefferson - Adding to the above...."Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do"

These are just a few that come to mind. The list could go on and on. Point is, if this is the path the nation wants to go down, fine. But don't single out one time period of moral opaqueness.

 

[Wild Bill]

Why are we so obsessed with idolatry? Maybe that’s the question that needs to be asked.

Who is obsessed with idolatry - those who deface and tear down our statues, memorials, etc, or those who disapprove but passively allow it to happen?

Ripping down our historic symbols and pissing all over our history is nothing more than a symptom of the disease that has already infected our nation. The cultural shift has already taken place, not by destroying statues, but by capturing the hearts and minds of the youth and that was accomplished by driving a wedge between the traditional family, religion, tradition and nature's order. Pointing my finger at the fools who destroy and deface our historic symbols, believing themselves to be political dissidents despite the fact that their political views and moral code is basically a mirror image of the mission statement at Google or any other multi national corporation, is a waste of time.

Ok. Again, from what I have seen the “PC” crowd isn’t pushing to “hide” or “bury” any one groups “history”. What I have seen is an effort to push other histories to the fore and or questioning who and what is being celebrated, venorated and memorialized. I think that is a good thing. They are also advocating discussing “hurtful” facts like the realities of the institutions and social order the confederacy for instance was fighting to defend.

Again in the specific case of the Civil War if we are going to be honest many Southerners have engaged in these same “PC” history erasing tactics present day “PC Police” are being accused of to obfuscate what they were actually supporting, fighting and dying for, white supremacy. Should we celebrate and memorialize that? I don’t think we should.

Our nation was founded by whites who, by today's standards, would be deemed white supremacists. Many owned slaves, drove the natives off of their land, and codified their intent to remain a white nation in the Naturalization Act of 1790 by limiting naturalization to immigrants who were "free White persons of good character". Should we celebrate and memorialize them?

 

[NDRock]

Ok. Again, from what I have seen the “PC” crowd isn’t pushing to “hide” or “bury” any one groups “history”. What I have seen is an effort to push other histories to the fore and or questioning who and what is being celebrated, venorated and memorialized. I think that is a good thing. They are also advocating discussing “hurtful” facts like the realities of the institutions and social order the confederacy for instance was fighting to defend.

Again in the specific case of the Civil War if we are going to be honest many Southerners have engaged in these same “PC” history erasing tactics present day “PC Police” are being accused of to obfuscate what they were actually supporting, fighting and dying for, white supremacy. Should we celebrate and memorialize that? I don’t think we should.

I've had a bunch of guys tell me the South seceding from the Union had zero to do with slavery. All about tariffs, taxes, and such. "Modifying" the truth to make your side look better has been going on for thousands of years. Rulers take over and remove or desecrate the achievements of their predecessors. Nothing new. Heck, go watch Fox and MSNBC. Both sides practice the same techniques with the present. Don't even let it become history first.

 

[ickythump1225]

Ok. Again, from what I have seen the “PC” crowd isn’t pushing to “hide” or “bury” any one groups “history”. What I have seen is an effort to push other histories to the fore and or questioning who and what is being celebrated, venorated and memorialized. I think that is a good thing. They are also advocating discussing “hurtful” facts like the realities of the institutions and social order the confederacy for instance was fighting to defend.

Again in the specific case of the Civil War if we are going to be honest many Southerners have engaged in these same “PC” history erasing tactics present day “PC Police” are being accused of to obfuscate what they were actually supporting, fighting and dying for, white supremacy. Should we celebrate and memorialize that? I don’t think we should.

Question: Why shouldn't Anglo-Saxon or "WASP" history be taught and lionized in American schools considering "WASPs" built this country? We are part of the Anglosphere and we have a strong Anglo-Saxon tradition and history. The Revolutionary War was basically an English Civil War and America is thoroughly rooted in Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence, philosophy, theology, etc. I'm not saying we can't teach other histories but you can't teach American history without teaching WASP history, because the United States was founded as a WASP colony.

 

[ACamp1900]

 

[NorthDakota]

Former Irish President Says Baptism Violates A Baby’s Human Rights

Glad my mom's tribe got off that God forsaken island. They can sink into the ocean anytime now.

 

[Bluto]

Question: Why shouldn't Anglo-Saxon or "WASP" history be taught and lionized in American schools considering "WASPs" built this country? We are part of the Anglosphere and we have a strong Anglo-Saxon tradition and history. The Revolutionary War was basically an English Civil War and America is thoroughly rooted in Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence, philosophy, theology, etc. I'm not saying we can't teach other histories but you can't teach American history without teaching WASP history, because the United States was founded as a WASP colony.

I never said it shouldn’t be taught (its the defacto history taught in most schools) and no it wasn’t solely WASP’s who “built this country”. What I take issue with is this idea of other histories and or perspectives being pushed to the fore being the “erasing of history”. I don’t think any history (particularly individuals who are a part of it) should be “lionized” because it then more often than not becomes propaganda. I think we should acknowledge the good, the bad and yes the ugly about our history and talk openly and honestly about it. Case in point I do not think Ceasar Chavez should be “lionized” due to some of his personal flaws which to put it mildly were pretty bad. With that in mind I think Cesar Chavez Day should be National Farm Labor Day and frankly I think Ceasar would have agreed. Now are there those on the left who would seek to stymie that honest conversation? Absolutely, however if we are being honest the right is just as bad.

 

[Bluto]

Who is obsessed with idolatry - those who deface and tear down our statues, memorials, etc, or those who disapprove but passively allow it to happen?

Ripping down our historic symbols and pissing all over our history is nothing more than a symptom of the disease that has already infected our nation. The cultural shift has already taken place, not by destroying statues, but by capturing the hearts and minds of the youth and that was accomplished by driving a wedge between the traditional family, religion, tradition and nature's order. Pointing my finger at the fools who destroy and deface our historic symbols, believing themselves to be political dissidents despite the fact that their political views and moral code is basically a mirror image of the mission statement at Google or any other multi national corporation, is a waste of time.



Our nation was founded by whites who, by today's standards, would be deemed white supremacists. Many owned slaves, drove the natives off of their land, and codified their intent to remain a white nation in the Naturalization Act of 1790 by limiting naturalization to immigrants who were "free White persons of good character". Should we celebrate and memorialize them?

Ok, so what part of our history is getting “pissed all over”?

Anyhow to your last point, I don’t think we should. We should however, celebrate the institutions they created and how those institutions have evolved to allow for a more inclusive and just society. Shitty people can create fantastic art, policy/governance and come up with great ideas. Case in point, Richard Nixon signed the Clean Water Act into law and created the EPA. I think those are two of the most important events in modern governance. I do not think that he deserves a statue.

 

[Bluto]

Glad my mom's tribe got off that God forsaken island. They can sink into the ocean anytime now.

I’m pretty sure the feeling is mutual. Lol.

 

[Bluto]

If the country wants to do that, go all in. It's not just the Civil War. For example...

1) Make the SF 49ers change their name. The impact and treatment of Native Americans is something we should not be memorializing through sport.

2) Christopher Columbus - Reminder of the 9M+ natives there were lost as a result of colonization.

3) George Washington - Slave owner and person who ordered the decimation of British Iroquois, who he considered to be sub-human. Washington's slaves went on to fight for the British, but both he and Jefferson specifically went out to reclaim their "property" once the British surrendered.

4) Thomas Jefferson - Adding to the above...."Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do"

These are just a few that come to mind. The list could go on and on. Point is, if this is the path the nation wants to go down, fine. But don't single out one time period of moral opaqueness.

I’m fine with that. The Niner’s suck anyway.

 

[Irish YJ]

I do not think you understand the concept of a “history”. If all US monuments were destroyed tomorrow it would not “erase” any history (other than maybe some of history of the events surrounding the construction of the monuments themselves) because the events that those monuments were a response to have been well documented. Now, what is important is what histories or parts of various histories we choose to venerate and celebrate. That to me seems to be the issue.

Anyhow, equating changing some street names and the like to “erasing” history is pretty absurd when one takes into account that the device I am typing this on gives one access to basically all of the historical information that has ever existed.

History is told through many things my friend. Not just history books. Times change. Cultural norms change. What was acceptable back then (for instance like language in Mark Twain's books) shouldn't be changed. It should reflect the time, regardless of right or wrong. And if you think there's not a lot of debate in terms of what should be included in school history books, you'd be wrong. The whole Little House thing is ridiculous.

I'm a big fan of leaving things. I want everyone to see the warts and ask the questions.

 

[Bluto]

History is told through many things my friend. Not just history books. Times change. Cultural norms change. What was acceptable back then (for instance like language in Mark Twain's books) shouldn't be changed. It should reflect the time, regardless of right or wrong. And if you think there's not a lot of debate in terms of what should be included in school history books, you'd be wrong. The whole Little House thing is ridiculous.

I'm a big fan of leaving things. I want everyone to see the warts and ask the questions.

I’m aware of the many forms history can be communicated and recorded. Studs Terkel did fantastic work in that regard.

I’m completely aware of the school curriculum debate. What is most troubling to me in all that are the right wing kooks who are successfully advocating that creationism be taught as an alternative “scientific” theory to evolution. On the ridiculousness spectrum that leaves Laura Ingles in the dust.

What “things” are we talking about?

 

[Irish YJ]

I’m aware of the many forms history can be communicated and recorded. Studs Terkel did fantastic work in that regard.

I’m completely aware of the school curriculum debate. What is most troubling to me in all that are the right wing kooks who are sucessully advocating that creationism be taught as an alternative “scientific” theory to evolution. On the ridiculousness spectrum that leaves Laura Ingles in the dust.

What “things” are we talking about?

Great post for the most part.

I love Terkel. Especially his stance against the NSA.

I'm also with you on creationism taught as scientific.

I'm not sure what you are about Wilder/Laura Ingles?

What things? I'm talking about many things. It's seems we're slowing sliding to PCness in just about every place. For instance the emphasis of late has been memorials in the South. Slavery was absolutely evil, but I think removing everything confederate is a mistake. Sure the war's primary political reasoning was slavery, but that's the politics side of it. Not everyone in the South was pro slavery, and not everyone in the North was anti slavery. A lot of commoners were just caught up. In the South, many common people fighting didn't give a shit about slavery, but lost love ones. A lot just didn't want Northerners telling them what to do. There are memorials simply to lost love ones (soldiers) that have been removed just because they are from the South. They are not memorials promoting slavery, simply memorials to fallen people.

Let's be honest, the country's history is full of men who did great things by today's standards but also did horrible things by today's standards,,,,, but weren't given a second thought by the norms of their days. Today it's all things Southern. Tomorrow it will be Washington and Jefferson because they owned slavers. In 50 years, it will be the last 4 presidents because they supported drone strikes. We'll probably see a Stormy Daniels monument at some time, but hey, that's OK.

 

[Bluto]

Great post for the most part.

I love Terkel. Especially his stance against the NSA.

I'm also with you on creationism taught as scientific.

I'm not sure what you are about Wilder/Laura Ingles?

What things? I'm talking about many things. It's seems we're slowing sliding to PCness in just about every place. For instance the emphasis of late has been memorials in the South. Slavery was absolutely evil, but I think removing everything confederate is a mistake. Sure the war's primary political reasoning was slavery, but that's the politics side of it. Not everyone in the South was pro slavery, and not everyone in the North was anti slavery. A lot of commoners were just caught up. In the South, many common people fighting didn't give a shit about slavery, but lost love ones. A lot just didn't want Northerners telling them what to do. There are memorials simply to lost love ones (soldiers) that have been removed just because they are from the South. They are not memorials promoting slavery, simply memorials to fallen people.

Let's be honest, the country's history is full of men who did great things by today's standards but also did horrible things by today's standards,,,,, but weren't given a second thought by the norms of their days. Today it's all things Southern. Tomorrow it will be Washington and Jefferson because they owned slavers. In 50 years, it will be the last 4 presidents because they supported drone strikes. We'll probably see a Stormy Daniels monument at some time, but hey, that's OK.

Claiming the US is slowly sliding into PCness (whatever that means) is by far the most overstated crisis of our time. The present makeup of US culture contains Juggalos, shows like South Park, over the top sexualization of everything, smoking weed in the open, having Tattoos and dyed hair and even dressing like a biker being passé, liquor being marketed on TV again. I’m not sure how that constitutes sliding towards this big scary “PC” world so by all means please explain that to me. From where I sit the US and US culture is as Non-PC as it has ever been.

If you want to celebrate a culture and or group of people who rallied around the worst institution in our nations history (Slavery) to fight a civil war and then after losing that instituted the second worst institution in our nations history (Jim Crow) until that too was torn down, have at it. Let’s be honest about it though.

So, how is anything that has been proposed fall under banning all things “Southern”? As far as I know grits are still on the menu, one can drive a dumb ass monster truck with the rebel flag attached, watch NASCAR on one screen and the SEC on the other while blasting Jelly Roll but yeah Southern Culture is “endangered”.

 

[NorthDakota]

Claiming the US is slowly sliding into PCness (whatever that means) is by far the most overstated crisis of our time. The present makeup of US culture contains Juggalos, shows like South Park, over the top sexualization of everything, smoking weed in the open, having Tattoos and dyed hair and even dressing like a biker being passé, liquor being marketed on TV again. I’m not sure how that constitutes sliding towards this big scary “PC” world so by all means please explain that to me.

If you want to celebrate a culture and or group of people who rallied around the worst institution in our nations history (Slavery) to fight a civil war and then after losing that instituted the second worst institution in our nations history (Jim Crow) until that too was torn down, have at it. Let’s be honest about it though.

So, how is anything that has been proposed fall under banning all things “Southern”. As far as I know grits are still on the menu, one can drive a dumb ass monster truck with the rebel flag attached, watch NASCAR on one screen and the SEC on the other to their hearts content while blasting Jelly Roll.

Abortion is more abhorrent than slavery and frankly... its not particularly close. Don't @me

 

[Bluto]

Abortion is more abhorrent than slavery and frankly... its not particularly close. Don't @me

Great. Thanks.

 

[Irish YJ]

Claiming the US is slowly sliding into PCness (whatever that means) is by far the most overstated crisis of our time. The present makeup of US culture contains Juggalos, shows like South Park, over the top sexualization of everything, smoking weed in the open, having Tattoos and dyed hair and even dressing like a biker being passé, liquor being marketed on TV again. I’m not sure how that constitutes sliding towards this big scary “PC” world so by all means please explain that to me. From where I sit the US and US culture is as Non-PC as it has ever been.

If you want to celebrate a culture and or group of people who rallied around the worst institution in our nations history (Slavery) to fight a civil war and then after losing that instituted the second worst institution in our nations history (Jim Crow) until that too was torn down, have at it. Let’s be honest about it though.

So, how is anything that has been proposed fall under banning all things “Southern”. As far as I know grits are still on the menu, one can drive a dumb ass monster truck with the rebel flag attached, watch NASCAR on one screen and the SEC on the other to their hearts content while blasting Jelly Roll.

It's pretty safe to assume you think all things "Southern" are racist. I grew up in Indy, and moved to ATL 20 years ago. I'll say two things.

1) being a white guy in an interracial marriage, I saw the most prejudice in the NE, and to a lesser extent, the MW. The prejudice I saw in the South was predominately from African Americans.

And 2) until you live in the South, you will not understand. I had an older female boss who was a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy. So likely an old racist white woman right? Not at all. She was one of the kindest managers in that shop to African Americans, promoting more than all the other managers combined. She volunteered for many diversity groups and to this day, one of the nicest people I've ever known. She was part of the "Lost Cause" ideology, that many folks criticize. When I first met her I immediately was touched by her kindness and demeanor. When I found out she was part of the UDC (shortly after meeting her), I was like, whoaaaaa she doesn't seem like a racist, and started to question things. I paid more attention to her actions, and couldn't believe it. After a few years, I confronted her. What I found was a person who loved everyone, and only wanted to honor her ancestors and heritage. It had nothing to to do hatred or racism. The only dislike on the topic she had, was for "Northerners". And keep in mind at this time I had an AA wife, and the setting, at her house for dinner with her family. Anyway, like I said, you'd have to live here.

Lastly, take a look at the most racist area in the US. Sure the south has their areas, but those woke Northerners have as many or more.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Culture

The biggest misrepresentation I can see is Utah and Arizona being mostly dark blue. In my experience, Mormons are some of the most racist people Ive ever come across. I have plenty of stories.

 

[Irish YJ]

The biggest misrepresentation I can see is Utah and Arizona being mostly dark blue. In my experience, Mormons are some of the most racist people Ive ever come across. I have plenty of stories.

Haven't really had a lot of experience with Mormons except I had and EA for a couple years that had recently stopped practicing. He wasn't prejudice at all. Also, the biking Mormon's around ATL don't discriminate in the neighborhoods they knock on doors in, that's for sure.

 

[Bluto]

It's pretty safe to assume you think all things "Southern" are racist. I grew up in Indy, and moved to ATL 20 years ago. I'll say two things.

1) being a white guy in an interracial marriage, I saw the most prejudice in the NE, and to a lesser extent, the MW. The prejudice I saw in the South was predominately from African Americans.

And 2) until you live in the South, you will not understand. I had an older female boss who was a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy. So likely an old racist white woman right? Not at all. She was one of the kindest managers in that shop to African Americans, promoting more than all the other managers combined. She volunteered for many diversity groups and to this day, one of the nicest people I've ever known. She was part of the "Lost Cause" ideology, that many folks criticize. When I first met her I immediately was touched by her kindness and demeanor. When I found out she was part of the UDC (shortly after meeting her), I was like, whoaaaaa she doesn't seem like a racist, and started to question things. I paid more attention to her actions, and couldn't believe it. After a few years, I confronted her. What I found was a person who loved everyone, and only wanted to honor her ancestors and heritage. It had nothing to to do hatred or racism. The only dislike on the topic she had, was for "Northerners". And keep in mind at this time I had an AA wife, and the setting, at her house for dinner with her family. Anyway, like I said, you'd have to live here.

Lastly, take a look at the most racist area in the US. Sure the south has their areas, but those woke Northerners have as many or more.

The discussion we were having was about what cultural symbols we should celebrate and or rethink and why, not whether I thought all things Southern were “racist”. If that’s what you now want to talk about...ok.

My brother lived in Atlanta for 15 years (his best friend played point guard for Clemson), so no I don’t think all things Southern are racist. I loved Atlanta. It was supper diverse and had all kinds of cool things going on. Also, R.E.M and the B 52’s are from Athens. I also particularly like New Orleans and the diversity of cultures I saw there.

Now based on the experiences of my brother and his African American friends most of the metro areas were fine, when one wandered off the beaten path, that’s when things got weird. He even experienced the classic “we don’t serve people like you” line. Also, when I talked with African American Southerners before I drove across the country to visit my brother one thing I was consistently told was “do not stop in Mississippi”. As to spending time in the “South”. Have you ever been to Bakersfield or Kern County? The place I grew up in was closer to North Texas from a cultural standpoint than anywhere else I have been.

Look I’m glad you met a nice old white lady whose relatives were bigots. I know and grew up with many nice old people that are still bigots. It’s been my experience that the niceties last up until the point you press them on things like why they would want to “celebrate” a society and past where lynching black people was fine. That’s usually when the claws come out. I have no problem with her living in this delusion. My issue is that delusion and false narrative have been and are still being pushed on the general public in part via these cultural symbols in the same perverse “PC” manner that people screech about when they point the finger at the left for engaging in this same type of intellectual dishonesty.

That sucks that black people were mean to you. I’ve experienced that as well on a number of occasions. For instance, a bunch of black people cut in front of me at a barber shop in the lower ninth ward when I rode a bike around New Orleans looking for a haircut. Anyhow, one of the barbers finally told me “we don’t cut hair like yours” and that they didn’t even have a pair of scissors in the shop. When I explained I wanted everything shaved with a number 5 guard the guy said have a seat. I left the place looking like a combination of Drake and a minor league short stop from the Dominican Republic.

Lastly, as to racism in the “north” I’m well aware of that as well. When I was in grade school I rode a school bus with a high schooler who told me everyday how great the KKK was and how he hated niggers and beaners right here in California.

 

[Irish YJ]

The discussion we were having was about what cultural symbols we should celebrate and or rethink and why, not whether I thought all things Southern were “racist”. If that’s what you now want to talk about...ok.

My brother lived in Atlanta for 15 years (his best friend played point guard for Clemson), so no I don’t think all things Southern are racist. I loved Atlanta. It was supper diverse and had all kinds of cool things going on. Also, R.E.M and the B 52’s are from Athens. I also particularly like New Orleans and the diversity of cultures I saw there.

Now based on the experiences of my brother and his African American friends most of the metro areas were fine, when one wandered off the beaten path, that’s when things got weird. He even experienced the classic “we don’t serve people like you” line. Also, when I talked with African American Southerners before I drove across the country to visit my brother one thing I was consistently told was “do not stop in Mississippi”. As to spending time in the “South”. Have you ever been to Bakersfield or Kern County? The place I grew up in was closer to North Texas from a cultural standpoint than anywhere else I have been.

Look I’m glad you met a nice old white lady whose relatives were bigots. I know and grew up with many nice old people that are still bigots. It’s been my experience that the niceties last up until the point you press them on things like why they would want to “celebrate” a society and past where lynching black people was fine. That’s usually when the claws come out. I have no problem with her living in this delusion. My issue is that delusion and false narrative have been and are being pushed on the general public via these cultural symbols and a false narrative that celebrates it in the same perverse “PC” manner people screech about when they point the finger at the left for engaging in this same intellectual dishonesty.

That sucks that black people were mean to you. I’ve experienced that as well on a number of occasions. For instance, a bunch of black people cut in front of me at a barber shop in the lower ninth ward when I rode a bike around New Orleans looking for a haircut. Anyhow, one of the barbers finally told me “we don’t cut hair like yours” and that they didn’t even have a pair of scissors in the shop. When I explained I wanted everything shaved with a number 5 guard the guy said have a seat. I left the place looking like a combination of Drake and a minor league short stop from the Dominican Republic.

Lastly, as to racism in the “north” I’m well aware of that as well. When I was in grade school I rode a school bus with a high schooler who told me everyday how great the KKK was and how he hated niggers and beaners right here in California.

Like I've said to you before, we're all shaped by our experiences. Most white Americans have bigots in their families if you want to go back far enough. That doesn't mean every white American celebrates it. And to be specific, it is you who talked out "celebrating" and pushing to the front. That was not part of my original post. My point is, and continues to be, knocking down statues and memorials isn't going to solve anything. Re-writing text in classic novel cheapens the history. Having a memorial doesn't mean it's celebrated. It's just a serves as a reminder of a time or event, be it a good time, or bad. Like I said, leave the warts. Today it's this we're trying to erase, tomorrow it will be something else.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Culture

Also, the biking Mormon's around ATL don't discriminate in the neighborhoods they knock on doors in, that's for sure.

Thats part of their racism IMO. They prey heavily on low income neighborhoods with a high % of POC. Its mostly self-serving. In AZ, they preyed heavily on the Native American reservations, and I have a few horror stories from my time working on one with the kids.

 

[Irish YJ]

Thats part of their racism IMO. They prey heavily on low income neighborhoods with a high % of POC. Its mostly self-serving. In AZ, they preyed heavily on the Native American reservations, and I have a few horror stories from my time working on one with the kids.

They're in my neighborhood at least once a week. When I'm out doing yard work and can't ignore the knock lol, I've talked to them on occasion. They've been really nice and polite when I explain to them I'm Catholic..... I've even had a little debate with them a few times, and they were cool about it. I'd be interested in hearing about your experience on the reservation if you care to share here or via PM.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Culture

They're in my neighborhood at least once a week. When I'm out doing yard work and can't ignore the knock lol, I've talked to them on occasion. They've been really nice and polite when I explain to them I'm Catholic..... I've even had a little debate with them a few times, and they were cool about it. I'd be interested in hearing about your experience on the reservation if you care to share here or via PM.

Ill send a PM later when I have time. Theres some doozies.

*I understand not all Mormons represent my personal view of them, but at the very least, they have a systemic problem internally, just like not all cops/Catholics/etc are bad, but its hard to deny a few systemic problems internally. Their problem is how they view people outside of the faith.

 

[Irish YJ]

Ill send a PM later when I have time. Theres some doozies.

*I understand not all Mormons represent my personal view of them, but at the very least, they have a systemic problem internally, just like not all cops/Catholics/etc are bad, but its hard to deny a few systemic problems internally. Their problem is how they view people outside of the faith.

Cool. No rush.

I've been to Salt Lake a couple times on business, and there was a superiority vibe I got. But it was their home turf and they own the state I guess lol.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Cool. No rush.



I've been to Salt Lake a couple times on business, and there was a superiority vibe I got. But it was their home turf and they own the state I guess lol.

They own most of the more affluent areas of the East Valley that arent in Scottsdale too, with East Mesa being their stronghold.

 

[Irish YJ]

They own most of the more affluent areas of the East Valley that arent in Scottsdale too, with East Mesa being their stronghold.

I spent significant time in E Mesa in the mid/late 90s on business. Had a furnished apartment near the office. I think it was on University Dr.. Had no idea it was a Mormon stronghold. Plenty of hot chicks though. Came very close to moving there.

 

[greyhammer90]

 

[Irish#1]

Claiming the US is slowly sliding into PCness (whatever that means) is by far the most overstated crisis of our time. The present makeup of US culture contains Juggalos, shows like South Park, over the top sexualization of everything, smoking weed in the open, having Tattoos and dyed hair and even dressing like a biker being passé, liquor being marketed on TV again. I’m not sure how that constitutes sliding towards this big scary “PC” world so by all means please explain that to me. From where I sit the US and US culture is as Non-PC as it has ever been.

If you want to celebrate a culture and or group of people who rallied around the worst institution in our nations history (Slavery) to fight a civil war and then after losing that instituted the second worst institution in our nations history (Jim Crow) until that too was torn down, have at it. Let’s be honest about it though.

So, how is anything that has been proposed fall under banning all things “Southern”. As far as I know grits are still on the menu, one can drive a dumb ass monster truck with the rebel flag attached, watch NASCAR on one screen and the SEC on the other while blasting Jelly Roll but yeah Southern Culture is “endangered”.

I'll tell you one thing. You can tap dance with the best of them.