COVID-19

zelezo vlk

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Koon, would you change your mind if instead of older people being the most at-risk, it were infants and the young including your own child?

A guy from my office tested positive last night. Great.

F. and prayers
 

Irish YJ

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I'm of the mindset that every country that didn't take proactive steps is currently in meltdown... while every country that did has had good results... so this kind of thinking is anti-factual.

Strange how different countries are impacted differently and their different approaches.

China and SKO already starting their B-ball leagues back up I think. Italy still in chaos.
 

IrishLax

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Koon, would you change your mind if instead of older people being the most at-risk, it were infants and the young including your own child?

F. and prayers

The thing people aren't realizing is that while "old people" are by far at the greatest risk of death, this isn't a binary disease. You can still get really fucking sick and require hospitalization even if you ultimately pull through.

40% of hospitalizations right now are people ages 20 to 55. So yeah, when your medical system has capacity those people aren't kicking the bucket, but when it's overwhelmed you're going to struggle to treat those people or people with other issues. You have normal aged people in Italy dying of things like appendicitis because they can't get treatment in time.

But according to some, this is all some giant world wide conspiracy by "the media" and Trump haters. Wake up. The countries that didn't take proactive steps early enough are in a tailspin.
 
K

koonja

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Koon, would you change your mind if instead of older people being the most at-risk, it were infants and the young including your own child?



F. and prayers

Maybe, but depends on the numbers. What is the actual US mortality rate being reported for 70+ of age? Is it 5%? 10%?

Keep in mind I'm of the mindset this mortality rate is highly over stated. There's no doubt there are many, many more infected that have reported as positive.

If reported cases is 10,000, and reported deaths are 100, 1% may scare people. What if 100,000 are actually infected and either don't realize it, think they have a cold, or don't have access to a test?
 

IrishLax

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Strange how different countries are impacted differently and their different approaches.

China and SKO already starting their B-ball leagues back up I think. Italy still in chaos.

China reacted late and is responsible for this entire pandemic. But when they did finally react, they had an authoritarian crackdown that worked. South Korea, Singapore, etc. reacted exactly how you would hope a government and their citizenry would.

Italy? France? Spain? A masterclass on what not to do. Unfortunately, the United States is tracking closer to those countries because of initial efforts to downplay the threat by elected officials, not enough proactive testing, etc. We missed the window to be South Korea.
 

NDohio

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Maybe, but depends on the numbers. What is the actual US mortality rate being reported for 70+ of age? Is it 5%? 10%?

Keep in mind I'm of the mindset this mortality rate is highly over stated. There's no doubt there are many, many more infected that have reported as positive.

If reported cases is 10,000, and reported deaths are 100, 1% may scare people. What if 100,000 are actually infected and either don't realize it, think they have a cold, or don't have access to a test?

The opposite can be true also. How many deaths have occurred that have not been quantified as COVID-19 caused deaths but actually are...
 

irishff1014

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I am very very concerned how all of this gets paid for in the long run. There is no way that my generation will see this paid for.

I am very fortunate that all 3 of my jobs are necessities so I won’t lose work. I do feel bad for those that will and have to stress over money. That will be just as bad as the virus for some.
 

ThePiombino

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I have friends/family in Naples, and they've said the same thing. I'm supposed to be down in late May / early June for two week.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My friend is in Fort Myers, FL preparing to self-quarantine. Today he drove to get supplies and said he has never seen the beaches more packed. Spring break in full effect. Local officials and <a href="https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GovRonDeSantis</a> will get countless retirees killed if they don't shut this down.</p>— Tommy Vietor (@TVietor08) <a href="https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/1240100464588247045?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
See, now this is what pisses me off. People who want to turn this into a political issue at every turn, when really it's nothing more than a common decency (or lack thereof) issue. It's not the local officials nor the governor's fault that the beaches are packed with a bunch of above-it-alls filled with youthful hubris.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

Irish YJ

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China reacted late and is responsible for this entire pandemic. But when they did finally react, they had an authoritarian crackdown that worked. South Korea, Singapore, etc. reacted exactly how you would hope a government and their citizenry would.

Italy? France? Spain? A masterclass on what not to do. Unfortunately, the United States is tracking closer to those countries because of initial efforts to downplay the threat by elected officials, not enough proactive testing, etc. We missed the window to be South Korea.

Saw some stats on MSM and a few different takes from docs talking about per capita impacts, rate of travel (to China by country), etc., and the US was not looking so terrible all things considered. Most of the stats we see are pure numbers (not per capita), and also lack the needed testing input data. I think it's pretty early to draw any clear conclusion.

The bungle with testing is by far my biggest issue. Had the FDA cut regs and allowed private industry to move forward and quicker, things wouldn't have been near as F'd up. That's not the only issues though. Some said lack of access (for researchers) to the virus itself was as big of a factor as the FDA red tape. The FDA has been a complete shit show for decades, so if anything positive comes out of this situation, I hope it's a complete overhaul top to bottom. South Korea does a great job of partnering with the private sector with much less FDA type barriers, and we need to take some clues from them.

One thing we did do right is closing travel from China early on. Americans by far have the most travel to China of all the western countries. Things could have been much much worse. As far as playing things down, while I agree to an extent, early on I saw folks from the WHO, CDC, and folks from all over the political spectrum play things down. And many of the folks playing it up early, weren't really doing so based on scientific data. Hell, even now after all we know, our woke young college goers are packing beaches around the US.
 

317Irish

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Maybe, but depends on the numbers. What is the actual US mortality rate being reported for 70+ of age? Is it 5%? 10%?

Keep in mind I'm of the mindset this mortality rate is highly over stated. There's no doubt there are many, many more infected that have reported as positive.

If reported cases is 10,000, and reported deaths are 100, 1% may scare people. What if 100,000 are actually infected and either don't realize it, think they have a cold, or don't have access to a test?
Koon I too believe the mortality rate is an unreliable stat due to the lack of symptoms most people see. However, I believe I have seen multiple models where 80% of the country (184 million) could become infected. If the mortality is more like 1% that would mean 1.84 million people die. If the mortality rate is really only 3x more deadly than the flu (0.3%) that would still mean 500,000 would die using some projections. I guess my point is that hanging your head on the fact that the mortality rate is overstated doesn’t paint the entire picture of what still could come. This is to not to comment on whether measures taken or suggested should be more considerate of the economy as everyone has their own opinion on that.
 

Irish YJ

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See, now this is what pisses me off. People who want to turn this into a political issue at every turn, when really it's nothing more than a common decency (or lack thereof) issue. It's not the local officials nor the governor's fault that the beaches are packed with a bunch of above-it-alls filled with youthful hubris.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

I can't believe how f'ing dumb college kids are.

Honestly though, the tweet in itself doesn't come off to me as political. Just asking the gov to step in and stop this. There is a legit fear for all the retirees. IMO, nobody thought masses would pack the beach with everything going on. I have family/friends down in the Naples/Ft Myers/Sanibel area, and most locals figured things would be dead. The part of Naples I go to (high end, mostly residences and luxury condos, and only a few expensive hotels) is pretty dead compared to Ft Myers. The condos I normally stay in is a ghost town.
 

Sea Turtle

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I am very very concerned how all of this gets paid for in the long run. There is no way that my generation will see this paid for.

I am very fortunate that all 3 of my jobs are necessities so I won’t lose work. I do feel bad for those that will and have to stress over money. That will be just as bad as the virus for some.

I'm in a very fortunate situation as well. I do have to high school children who will be in college soon so I worry for them some.

I'm also worried what happens if this bounces back after all of this.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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Guys, I'm a doctor. I have a very heavy heart today. Collectively as a nation we are going to suffer over the next several weeks unlike any of us have seen. Next week the reality will be clear to most. It will take 2 weeks for it to be clear to all. People will die by the thousands daily.

We do not have the testing capability to keep up with this or contain it currently. Multiply Italy's deaths by 5-6, we are literally looking into our own future as we watch Italy struggle.

Nobody should be out unless absolutely necessary. Do not seek medical care for a cold. Stay home. Do not go out to local restaurants to get out of the house, stay home. Do not go to the beach along with thousands of spring breakers, stay home.

This is a plea. We have to practice self control. We cannot live like we did just 2 weeks ago. We have to make sacrifices now.
 

317Irish

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I can't believe how f'ing dumb college kids are.

Honestly though, the tweet in itself doesn't come off to me as political. Just asking the gov to step in and stop this. There is a legit fear for all the retirees. IMO, nobody thought masses would pack the beach with everything going on. I have family/friends down in the Naples/Ft Myers/Sanibel area, and most locals figured things would be dead. The part of Naples I go to (high end, mostly residences and luxury condos, and only a few expensive hotels) is pretty dead compared to Ft Myers. The condos I normally stay in is a ghost town.
A couple days back I saw live clips of an area in San Francisco- while under a “shelter in place” warning- were jogging, roller blading, even walking while holding hands. I still have no idea how this plays out, but some people just want to fight the science at every turn. I have no doubt that the mixed messaging and conspiracy theories that we hear from those with many ears listening to them are contributing to the problem.
 

IrishLax

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Guys, I'm a doctor. I have a very heavy heart today. Collectively as a nation we are going to suffer over the next several weeks unlike any of us have seen. Next week the reality will be clear to most. It will take 2 weeks for it to be clear to all. People will die by the thousands daily.

We do not have the testing capability to keep up with this or contain it currently. Multiply Italy's deaths by 5-6, we are literally looking into our own future as we watch Italy struggle.

Nobody should be out unless absolutely necessary. Do not seek medical care for a cold. Stay home. Do not go out to local restaurants to get out of the house, stay home. Do not go to the beach along with thousands of spring breakers, stay home.

This is a plea. We have to practice self control. We cannot live like we did just 2 weeks ago. We have to make sacrifices now.

But but but loomis said it was all hysteria fueled by foreign governments that don't like Trump...
 

Irish YJ

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Guys, I'm a doctor. I have a very heavy heart today. Collectively as a nation we are going to suffer over the next several weeks unlike any of us have seen. Next week the reality will be clear to most. It will take 2 weeks for it to be clear to all. People will die by the thousands daily.

We do not have the testing capability to keep up with this or contain it currently. Multiply Italy's deaths by 5-6, we are literally looking into our own future as we watch Italy struggle.

Nobody should be out unless absolutely necessary. Do not seek medical care for a cold. Stay home. Do not go out to local restaurants to get out of the house, stay home. Do not go to the beach along with thousands of spring breakers, stay home.

This is a plea. We have to practice self control. We cannot live like we did just 2 weeks ago. We have to make sacrifices now.

Hope you're wrong, but I'm currently living as if you're right.
 

Greenore

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Guys, I'm a doctor. I have a very heavy heart today. Collectively as a nation we are going to suffer over the next several weeks unlike any of us have seen. Next week the reality will be clear to most. It will take 2 weeks for it to be clear to all. People will die by the thousands daily.

We do not have the testing capability to keep up with this or contain it currently. Multiply Italy's deaths by 5-6, we are literally looking into our own future as we watch Italy struggle.

Nobody should be out unless absolutely necessary. Do not seek medical care for a cold. Stay home. Do not go out to local restaurants to get out of the house, stay home. Do not go to the beach along with thousands of spring breakers, stay home.

This is a plea. We have to practice self control. We cannot live like we did just 2 weeks ago. We have to make sacrifices now.

Cheers Brother and God bless all those affected by this crisis.

Great advice about isolating. I'm not a big fan of Calgary's mayor... he's okay... but he had some great words yesterday. Paraphrasing, he said, "live the next month assuming you already have the virus and don't want it to spread... be kind, compassionate and help your fellow man/woman".

Our actions, as individuals, will make a difference.

Be safe all.

Cheers and Go Irish!!
 

NDdomer2

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Indiana governor just announced schools closed extended from mid April to may 1 and likely rest of school year.
 

Irish YJ

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A couple days back I saw live clips of an area in San Francisco- while under a “shelter in place” warning- were jogging, roller blading, even walking while holding hands. I still have no idea how this plays out, but some people just want to fight the science at every turn. I have no doubt that the mixed messaging and conspiracy theories that we hear from those with many ears listening to them are contributing to the problem.

I have no idea how it plays out either. I'm behaving as if it's going to get a lot worse, and that I have to stay healthy to potentially care for some of my family. I'm sheltering in place, and doing everything I can to avoid contact with others. Not sure logically what other alternative there is at this point lol.... My neighborhood is like a ghost town, and I think many here are in the same mode.

It's a shame there's so much "noise". Different messaging from docs, politicizing, and simply dumb ass people this late in the game.
 

BobbyMac

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I can't believe how f'ing dumb college kids are.

Honestly though, the tweet in itself doesn't come off to me as political. Just asking the gov to step in and stop this. There is a legit fear for all the retirees. IMO, nobody thought masses would pack the beach with everything going on. I have family/friends down in the Naples/Ft Myers/Sanibel area, and most locals figured things would be dead. The part of Naples I go to (high end, mostly residences and luxury condos, and only a few expensive hotels) is pretty dead compared to Ft Myers. The condos I normally stay in is a ghost town.

That tweet is from 2 days ago. Counties and local municipalities started shutting it down yesterday when the Gov. didn't (I think the state has set a Mar 23rd shut down instead of immeidately.) This prolly doesn't end well for Gov DeSantis.
 

NDdomer2

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A couple days back I saw live clips of an area in San Francisco- while under a “shelter in place” warning- were jogging, roller blading, even walking while holding hands. I still have no idea how this plays out, but some people just want to fight the science at every turn. I have no doubt that the mixed messaging and conspiracy theories that we hear from those with many ears listening to them are contributing to the problem.

holding hands with someone you live with doesnt seem to put yourself at any greater risk of infection right? I would also much rather be "close" to someone outside vs in an office setting.

I cant believe how often I am still seeing individuals crammed in conference rooms (most of them providers).
 

Irishize

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It's been 7 years so she's good from that aspect. She got her bachelors in psychology from Purdue, her masters in Public Health from IU and was running clinical trials for alzheimer and dementia patients when she found out she had cancer. Went through all of the treatment then went back to school to get her nursing degree which led to what she's doing now.

Has she been (& I assume still taking) hormonal therapy now? What stage? As a husband, son & son-in-law to nurses, I applaud your daughter. When you need a critical thinker on hand, it’s hard to beat an RN. Prayers for her safety.
 

Irishize

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Strange how different countries are impacted differently and their different approaches.

China and SKO already starting their B-ball leagues back up I think. Italy still in chaos.

As densely populated as India is, I’m amazed at how less affected they are. What little info I’ve found said that most of their infections (not all) were a result of Italian tourists.

Also, I haven’t heard/seen anything on how COVID-19 is affecting the continents of Africa or Australia. Is it b/c they’re in warmer regions of the world?
 

EvilleIrish

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Indiana Gov. just closed school till May 1. I know it sounds selfish, but I finally get my first baseball HC gig, team is loaded...and no season. Don't even know what to say to my seniors.
 

NDdomer2

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Indiana says currently all our hospitals have had no issues with equipment or crowding. They do believe there are 2/3 hospitals that could run into equipment issues in the next 96 hours, but also believe they are ahead of getting these issues addressed before its an actual problem.
 

IrishLax

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Indiana Gov. just closed school till May 1. I know it sounds selfish, but I finally get my first baseball HC gig, team is loaded...and no season. Don't even know what to say to my seniors.

Similar boat to you. We ended up having a one game season, and my team this year was loaded. Everyone was holding out hope we'd resume after a month or so off but it's clear this is all going to drag out at least through Easter and probably through June.

On top of that, my old HS has their best team since I was there and was the favorite to win the conference championship for the first time in decades... same story. I feel so bad for the seniors.
 

Irish YJ

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That tweet is from 2 days ago. Counties and local municipalities started shutting it down yesterday when the Gov. didn't (I think the state has set a Mar 23rd shut down instead of immeidately.) This prolly doesn't end well for Gov DeSantis.

He closed all the bars down yesterday I think. It's not just FL either. Padre Island and Havasu in TX are/were packed from what I've seen. Saw vids from Marina del Rey in Cali as well. Orange Beach in Bama... etc..

Honestly, aside from closing down the beach and bars, what are they going to do? Kick them out of their hotels and condos? Think the kids are all going to stay in their rooms and apply social distancing lol...

Woke College Millennials.
 

Whiskeyjack

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First, I don't disagree.

However, here is where my mind goes.....a few links later in the chain reaction, we have an economic depression that falls somewhere between 1930's and the Great Recession. In order to keep things semi-viable, the government needs funds and essentially defaults on interest and debt payments. Other governments do the same and in the end, there is a battle for resources that ends in WWIII. The few million lives at stake now will be a drop in the bucket compared to another World War.

I think the likelihood of that is remote. But the greater economic harm that is done today, increases the chances of military conflict down the road IMO.

That scenario would be more realistic if this virus was localized and our competitors could take advantage of our precautions to gain market share on American companies. But everyone we compete with is going through the same thing.

Any nation who seeks to exploit another's quarantine for economic advantage can be treated just like a war profiteer, and sanctioned by the WTO. I'd personally like to see us use this opportunity to start aggressively decoupling from China.
 

Wingman Ray

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As densely populated as India is, I’m amazed at how less affected they are. What little info I’ve found said that most of their infections (not all) were a result of Italian tourists.

Also, I haven’t heard/seen anything on how COVID-19 is affecting the continents of Africa or Australia. Is it b/c they’re in warmer regions of the world?

Im of firm belief that the China/Russia/India are just flat out Godless liars. They intentionally lie to their population and have for years to make themselves look better and everyone else worse. I recall during the housing crash, Russia was running TV showing video of empty shelves and saying Americans couldnt even afford to buy bread. Basically more propaganda to say you are in the best country that you could be already in type thing.

There is no way China nor Russia is containing the virus. Heck, half the population or more of Russia are living in 2nd world towns and villages. China is on top of each other and their country was filthy before all of this. Dont want to even begin on India which is possibly the filthiest county in the "civilized" world.
 
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