COVID-19

[gkIrish]

This is kind of where I'm at. I'll be unemployed in a month at this rate. We also have to consider how many people will die from crime and poverty if we continue down this path. Also supposedly there will be massive sewage problems if people quarantine. Just things to consider. The answer isn't simply "everyone stay home".

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nobody would support shutting down the economy to save 1 life. <br><br>Everybody would support shutting it down to save 1 billion lives. <br><br>The line is somewhere in between that huge range. The question is where to draw it. That's the philosophical dilemma at the root of this.</p>— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1240379433095172097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NorthDakota]

Not just that, but they all live on top of each other even in the more remote areas.

I saw some stat that they often adhere to the Whiskey lifestyle of grandparents living with their children/grandchildren as well. Just asking for bad things when it comes to this.

 

[notredomer23]

Big brain idea: infect everyone in good health under 65. Everyone else quarantines.
After 3 weeks herd immunity developed.

I will not be taking any further questions at this time.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This is kind of where I'm at. I'll be unemployed in a month at this rate. We also have to consider how many people will die from crime and poverty if we continue down this path. Also supposedly there will be massive sewage problems if people quarantine. Just things to consider. The answer isn't simply "everyone stay home".

The Imperial College report estimates 2 million deaths over the next 3 months if we just mitigate without going full-blown suppression. Do you think that's an acceptable loss in exchange for keeping our economy humming?

 

[gkIrish]

The Imperial College report estimates 2 million deaths over the next 3 months if we just mitigate without going full-blown suppression. Do you think that's an acceptable loss in exchange for keeping our economy humming?

How many people die with full-blown suppression for other reasons? What if the vaccine is harmful to us and we tanked the economy to avoid an unavoidable problem? There are so many variables it's basically impossible for me to take a position. I believe everyone should do everything they can to minimize the impact but we are going to get to a point where I'll be more worried about looters trying to enter my house than the disease itself.

My parents are 75 and 65 so I'm very concerned for them. I don't have an answer.

 

[yankeehater]

Seems a bit alarmist and without a source to back it up...I will wait for hard facts/

Is this fact hard enough for you! The dudes 29.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/post-malone-camila-cabello-producer-184922893.html

 

[Greenore]

I'm tearing up... third time in my life.

My daughter is/was attending University in New York. Classes cancelled about 10 days ago. She has been in self isolation since. We have had plenty of discussions about the pros/cons of her coming back to Canada.

Early this morning, I decided it was time for her to come home. My wife Face Timed her and she broke down. I have never seen her so emotional. Broke my heart. Almost half my family and cousins are physicians and I asked for their advice last night. It was less about the quality of health care in the US as it was about mental health concerns due to isolation/quarantine.

New Yorker's are amazing!! Most of her classmates showed up to help store her stuff. She had stockpiled a fair bit of food and supplies that she gave to other "stranded" students.

Her Profs were absolutely amazing and genuinely concerned.

What really made me emotional? One of her room mates is from China and is not great at English. Yvonne (her name) came out of her room early this morning and asked my daughter what all the noise was about. Daughter replied, "I'm heading home to Canada tomorrow morning". Yvonne (who is stranded) asked her if she had hand sanitize and masks. My daughter replied that she had plenty of Purell but there were no masks (she is travelling from La Guardia to Toronto to Calgary). Yvonne went to her room and came back giving my daughter 5 N-95 masks... from her LIMITED stock!!

Damn... I'm tearing up as I type this. Some real shitheads out there as we have all seem but largely beautiful and caring people.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

How many people die with full-blown suppression for other reasons? What if the vaccine is harmful to us and we tanked the economy to avoid an unavoidable problem? There are so many variables it's basically impossible for me to take a position. I believe everyone should do everything they can to minimize the impact but we are going to get to a point where I'll be more worried about looters trying to enter my house than the disease itself.

My parents are 75 and 65 so I'm very concerned for them. I don't have an answer.

Not trying to be confrontational. I agree that there are trade-offs here, and it's not obvious what the right decision is. But there seem to be three basic options: (1) do nothing, 4 million Americans die (including 10-15% of everyone over age 70); (2) merely mitigate, 2 million Americans die; or (3) go full-blown suppression, and only a few thousand die.

(1) is unthinkable, and would include major economic disruption for other reasons.

(2) would still be unprecedented. We've never lost that many Americans in such short span of time before. It's twice as many people who died in the entire Civil War on both sides, and 1/3 of a Holocaust. Only 3,000 people died in 9/11, yet we've spent $6 trillion waging war on the Arab world in the 20 years since then.

(3) seems reasonable to me in light of the alternatives. And I'm glad to see our leaders are still capable of subordinating the economy to higher goods in times of emergency. I honestly didn't think they had it in them.

 

[Sea Turtle]

This is kind of where I'm at. I'll be unemployed in a month at this rate. We also have to consider how many people will die from crime and poverty if we continue down this path. Also supposedly there will be massive sewage problems if people quarantine. Just things to consider. The answer isn't simply "everyone stay home".

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nobody would support shutting down the economy to save 1 life. <br><br>Everybody would support shutting it down to save 1 billion lives. <br><br>The line is somewhere in between that huge range. The question is where to draw it. That's the philosophical dilemma at the root of this.</p>— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1240379433095172097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If we continue down this path, unemployment will hit 20% in a few weeks. It will take over a year to recover.

We aren't talking about blunting the economy and keeping it from humming as some have suggested. We are absolutely wrecking it.

I'm fine. My mortgage is paid off in a year at age 48. I could pay it off now if I wanted. This isn't about me being selfish about the economy. I'm worried about others who have 15 years to pay off. Have new cars, young families, etc. We need to start thinking clearly. This is not the bubonic plague.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

To be fair, we've sacrificed on average 1.3 million American babies each year since 1973 in order to enable dual-income households and maximum consumption, so what's a one-time sacrifice of ~2 million unproductive elderly folks in light of that? Grandma and grandpa aren't contributing to GDP anymore, and Moloch hungers.

 

[koonja]

I'm of the mindset that in 6 months there will be millions who regret panicking, and the financial/lifestyle sacrifices will be great, both personal and nationwide. And there will be many people who want a re do, their jobs back, and their summer back.

 

[MJ12666]

To be fair, we've sacrificed on average 1.3 million American babies each year since 1973 in order to enable dual-income households and maximum consumption, so what's a one-time sacrifice of ~2 million unproductive elderly folks in light of that? Grandma and grandpa aren't contributing to GDP anymore, and Moloch hungers.

First I agree with you but you can't ignore the major difference between these two groups. Not one of the 1.3 million babies casted a vote while the elderly will be voting big-time when come this November.

 

[Irish#1]

Not at all. Just amazed that there are still posters here arguing this is NBD, and wanting to ensure that everyone takes this seriously.

Just having fun. I should have used italics.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm tearing up... third time in my life.

My daughter is/was attending University in New York. Classes cancelled about 10 days ago. She has been in self isolation since. We have had plenty of discussions about the pros/cons of her coming back to Canada.

Early this morning, I decided it was time for her to come home. My wife Face Timed her and she broke down. I have never seen her so emotional. Broke my heart. Almost half my family and cousins are physicians and I asked for their advice last night. It was less about the quality of health care in the US as it was about mental health concerns due to isolation/quarantine.

New Yorker's are amazing!! Most of her classmates showed up to help store her stuff. She had stockpiled a fair bit of food and supplies that she gave to other "stranded" students.

Her Profs were absolutely amazing and genuinely concerned.

What really made me emotional? One of her room mates is from China and is not great at English. Yvonne (her name) came out of her room early this morning and asked my daughter what all the noise was about. Daughter replied, "I'm heading home to Canada tomorrow morning". Yvonne (who is stranded) asked her if she had hand sanitize and masks. My daughter replied that she had plenty of Purell but there were no masks (she is travelling from La Guardia to Toronto to Calgary). Yvonne went to her room and came back giving my daughter 5 N-95 masks... from her LIMITED stock!!

Damn... I'm tearing up as I type this. Some real shitheads out there as we have all seem but largely beautiful and caring people.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

They closed the U.S. Canadian border. Don’t know if that includes air travel. Good luck to you and your daughter.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

First I agree with you but you can't ignore the major difference between these two groups. Not one of the 1.3 million babies casted a vote while the elderly will be voting big-time when come this November.

Sobering lesson, I suppose. Make sure you vote, lest the powers that be decide your death is an efficient outcome for The Market™.

 

[Greenore]

They closed the U.S. Canadian border. Don’t know if that includes air travel. Good luck to you and your daughter.

Love you Brother! Canada is still open for Canadians as is the U.S (to repatriate) Open to essential services and essential cross-country trade and services. Not sure how long this will last but I think we are on a very similar page.

Be safe and be responsible.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

ETA (Very Important!) - If all goes well, my wife is headed to Calgary tomorrow and dropping off a vehicle at the airport with some food. I can't drive. Daughter is heading to the ranch for a 14 day self isolation with one of our dogs. We just started calving so she is going to get some great experience in about 14 days!

 

[Big23Head]

The Imperial College report estimates 2 million deaths over the next 3 months if we just mitigate without going full-blown suppression. Do you think that's an acceptable loss in exchange for keeping our economy humming?

Here's the link to the Imperial College study (not sure if anyone posted it): Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID19 mortality and healthcare demand

 

[GATTACA!]

Fish swimming in arctic water tainted by the newly-released virus becomes infected.

Fish eaten by other fish.

So on and so forth until a pattern of migration results in Asian-based wildlife being infected.

Patient zero consumes the wrong organism at the end of the food chain.

And now here we are.

I don't make the rules, I just write the dramatized script.

 

[NDdomer2]

I don't know if it's fair to use that study as outcomes guaranteed to discuss choices as if the results are absolute.

Does the country need to be taking proper precautions, I don't know if anyone is arguing that.

Can we isolate for months on end and put people out of work? Not sure that's the answer.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't know if it's fair to use that study as outcomes guaranteed to discuss choices as if the results are absolute.

Does the country need to be taking proper precautions, I don't know if anyone is arguing that.

Can we isolate for months on end and put people out of work? Not sure that's the answer.

It's the best we've got currently for discussing alternatives. And when the lives of millions of Americans are in the balance, it's tough for the politicians to argue for more exposure in favor of juicing the economy. The calculus involved is pretty morbid.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm of the mindset that in 6 months there will be millions who regret panicking, and the financial/lifestyle sacrifices will be great, both personal and nationwide. And there will be many people who want a re do, their jobs back, and their summer back.

The idea of all the precautions is to make it appear that we did, in fact, overreact.

That’s kind of the ideal way to avoid greater-than-necessary loss of life.

 

[BeauBenken]

SIAP

This is Bill Gates discussing COVID-19 on Reddit:

Question by reddit user:

What do you think of the current approach the Netherlands is currently taking to combat this virus? They are not going to a full lockdown but rather try to spread it controllably in order to work towards ‘herd immunity’.

Bill Gates' response:

The only model that is known to work is a serious social distancing effort ("shut down"). If you don't do this then the disease will spread to a high percentage of the population and your hospitals will be overloaded with cases. So this should be avoided despite the problems caused by the "shut down". If a country doesn't control its cases then other countries will prevent anyone going into or coming out of that country. I think the Netherlands will end up doing what other countries are doing.

Just another big brain that might help some understand the importance of all this. Thread is here.

 

[Irish2155]

Is the term “Chinese Virus” racist?

 

[koonja]

Is the term “Chinese Virus” racist?

Is spanish flu?

 

[Circa]

Is the term “Chinese Virus” racist?

No! It originated there. The Chinese government still hides their numbers and who really knows how many people have been affected.
The Spanish Flu doesn't bother Spaniards.
Once an epidemic of this size happens you call It what It Is. Covid 19 Is not going to last and people just need to relax with the whole racially motivated crybaby BS.It really doesn't matter.

BTW Chinese Isn't a word that anyone could use as a slur. It's a heritage and not what they call each other anyway.

 

[GowerND11]

Is spanish flu?

Welllll the Spanish Flu wasn't even started there though.

 

[NDdomer2]

What does bill gates know about infectious diseases

 

[Irish2155]

Is “Ebola Virus” racist?

I just listened to Tucker interview Biden’s campaign manager and all she wanted to talk about is how “Chinese Virus” is racist.

I was kind of hoping for some substance. But no, nothing but race talk.

Some folks just can’t see the tree through the forest, I guess.

 

[Circa]

What does bill gates know about infectious diseases

I understand your point. I have been watching his talks for a long time and he has the funds to care. He's not new to this thought process.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6Af6b_wyiwI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Legacy]

Here's the link to the Imperial College study (not sure if anyone posted it): Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID19 mortality and healthcare demand

Thanks. Seattle and New Rochelle are examples of where we're headed if we don't maintain mitigation and suppression. "Mitigation might reduce the demand for healthcare services by 2/3s and deaths by half."

With all the healthcare workers being sent home for quarantine when one of their colleagues was positive, one can also put that on an upward curve. We can more easily manufacture hand soap, purifiers, respirators and PPE. Lift restrictions early and the healthcare system is worthless.