Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

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IrishSpartan

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It funny how fast people have turned on Freeman. General rule wait two years especially with the dumpster fire he inherited at Wr and Qb. I know people saw the #5 ranking and are pissed but you forget even Vegas had us winning 7. Now Tommy does need to go and I’m adamant about that but seriously give the guy some time.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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Here's a fun question: What would 2021 Notre Dame's record have been if Jack Coan was knocked out for the year mid way through the 4th quarter of the Toledo game?

Without Coan to run that two minute drill, ND probably suffers a disasterous loss to Toledo (a lot of Marshall parallels there, IMO). Without Coan to ride to the rescue on Virginia Tech, that game probably looks different.

After that VT game, Coan was rolling.

I am unconvinced that ND's problems in 2022 emanate from the head coach. ND's success was already pretty fragile (IMO).
 

Irish4life

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Here's a fun question: What would 2021 Notre Dame's record have been if Jack Coan was knocked out for the year mid way through the 4th quarter of the Toledo game?

Without Coan to run that two minute drill, ND probably suffers a disasterous loss to Toledo (a lot of Marshall parallels there, IMO). Without Coan to ride to the rescue on Virginia Tech, that game probably looks different.

After that VT game, Coan was rolling.

I am unconvinced that ND's problems in 2022 emanate from the head coach. ND's success was already pretty fragile (IMO).
I'm not entirely sure I agree that this programs' success was particularly fragile (how many teams wouldn't struggle when the starting QB goes out for the year in week 2?), but I agree with everything else.
 

IRISHMAN

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Here's a fun question: What would 2021 Notre Dame's record have been if Jack Coan was knocked out for the year mid way through the 4th quarter of the Toledo game?

Without Coan to run that two minute drill, ND probably suffers a disasterous loss to Toledo (a lot of Marshall parallels there, IMO). Without Coan to ride to the rescue on Virginia Tech, that game probably looks different.

After that VT game, Coan was rolling.

I am unconvinced that ND's problems in 2022 emanate from the head coach. ND's success was already pretty fragile (IMO).
i would agree with you, jack coan really saved the 2021 season. the big problem has been QB recruiting.

2016 - Ian Book: 30-5 as a ND starter
2017 - Avery Davis: moved to CB then WR, no QB in this class
2018 - Phill Jurkovic: transfered after sophmore season, no QB in this class
2019 - Brandon Clark: had shoulder issues and never played then transfered, no QB in this class
2020 - Drew Pyne: hasn't worked out as of now
2021 - Tyler Buckner: hasn't worked out as of now
2022 - Steve Anglei: to be determined

MF was handed a mess at the QB position and should have gone to the portal to get one even TR should have know that.
 

Henges24

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I've been purposely staying away from this board after this shit show of a season but there is one thing to remember:

We've seen some terrible losses through the years and many of them came under Kelly. Navy, MAC teams, Tulsa, etc. Those were all under Kelly and with Kelly's player's with no QB.
Stanford and Marshall losses = Kelly players with no QB.

Let's hold tight folks.
 

GowerND11

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i would agree with you, jack coan really saved the 2021 season. the big problem has been QB recruiting.

2016 - Ian Book: 30-5 as a ND starter
2017 - Avery Davis: moved to CB then WR, no QB in this class
2018 - Phill Jurkovic: transfered after sophmore season, no QB in this class
2019 - Brandon Clark: had shoulder issues and never played then transfered, no QB in this class
2020 - Drew Pyne: hasn't worked out as of now
2021 - Tyler Buckner: hasn't worked out as of now
2022 - Steve Anglei: to be determined

MF was handed a mess at the QB position and should have gone to the portal to get one even TR should have know that.
I don't think you can say it "hasn't worked out as of now" for Buchner. Kid was used as a change of pace last year, and played 7 quarters this year. He was put in an impossible spot with what we have said in regards to the WR unit.
 

BleedBlueGold

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10-2 with another NY6 bowl loss feels right.
I agree. BK proved over the last 5 years that he'd have his teams prepared to beat the teams they were supposed to beat. We all took this for granted and yearned for more when it came to competing against the very best. I believe the same would've played out this year, especially given the holes in this roster. (Do you think a BK coached team against Ok State last year loses that lead though? I personally think ND would've ended the NY6 losing streak).

Maybe? Coan in 2021 was the first year he took a transfer QB, so there's no guarantee he sweet talks Daniels into transferring.

Curious how many would rather keep Kelly at the helm indefinitely for more 10-2 seasons and no chance of ever winning a playoff game.
Kelly left willingly and that rubbed me the wrong way. Good riddance. But had that not happened and he was still at ND as a lifer, my attention would turn towards the lack of recruiting overall, but more importantly the QB position and skill positions. IF Kelly and much of his staff weren't so lazy in recruiting and built a better roster that included a game changer at QB, I'm not willing to say there would be "no chance of ever winning a playoff game," because ultimately, I think that's why ND never came close --> bad QB play and terrible recruiting when it came to skill positions.

Here's a fun question: What would 2021 Notre Dame's record have been if Jack Coan was knocked out for the year mid way through the 4th quarter of the Toledo game?

Without Coan to run that two minute drill, ND probably suffers a disasterous loss to Toledo (a lot of Marshall parallels there, IMO). Without Coan to ride to the rescue on Virginia Tech, that game probably looks different.

After that VT game, Coan was rolling.

I am unconvinced that ND's problems in 2022 emanate from the head coach. ND's success was already pretty fragile (IMO).
The bolded is a good point and it's one that, imo, can go multiple ways. BK's teams found ways to win close games and beat the teams they were supposed to beat. Even 2012 was a year of close wins. That team could've easily had a terrible record had a few bounces went the other way. Last year's team was no different and this year's team, with a new coaching staff, are realizing how "fragile" this roster really is as it pertains to winning games (even then ones ND is supposed to win).

Regarding your question about Coan...it's my opinion that this staff failed miserably before the season even begun by not bringing in a QB and multiple WRs through the portal. And I mean by any means necessary. The fact that ND doesn't do PFP and has difficult paths for undergrad transfers makes it harder. But EVERYONE knew the holes in this roster and the two biggest areas of concern, the staff struck out. (Did they even attempt at QB? I'm not sure they did). Buchner was massive question mark with high upside but he's also injury prone and first year starter. We know what Pyne is. Angeli is young and raw. Imo, they HAD TO bring in another QB to help elevate the competition and provide competent depth. They HAD TO bring in experienced WRs for the same reasons. They did neither.
 

Dale

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I'm not entirely sure I agree that this programs' success was particularly fragile (how many teams wouldn't struggle when the starting QB goes out for the year in week 2?), but I agree with everything else.

A large part of the country has had QB injuries. Maybe not for the season (yet) but ND isn’t exactly the only one looking around and seeing a backup QB.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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I can kind of give them a pass on the QB front. Buchner had a solid game against OSU and didn't get much of a chance to settle in this season (though there is no ignoring the Marshall performance).

OTOH, the WR situation is just brutal. Not only is ND thin at the position and lacking top shelf talent, they also could desperately use a possession guy on the outside. Too much of what ND does have at wide receiver presents similar skill sets.
 

Irish4life

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A large part of the country has had QB injuries. Maybe not for the season (yet) but ND isn’t exactly the only one looking around and seeing a backup QB.
And I would venture to guess that most if not all of the teams who've had their starting QBs knocked out struggled in the games they've missed. A&M nearly got Bama in Tuscaloosa without Bryce Young, and Saban is the GOAT with a better roster.
 

Irish4life

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I can kind of give them a pass on the QB front. Buchner had a solid game against OSU and didn't get much of a chance to settle in this season (though there is no ignoring the Marshall performance).

OTOH, the WR situation is just brutal. Not only is ND thin at the position and lacking top shelf talent, they also could desperately use a possession guy on the outside. Too much of what ND does have at wide receiver presents similar skill sets.
There is no debate, WR room is a catastrophe zone.
 

Dale

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And I would venture to guess that most if not all of the teams who've had their starting QBs knocked out struggled in the games they've missed. A&M nearly got Bama in Tuscaloosa without Bryce Young, and Saban is the GOAT with a better roster.

A&M was without Max Johnson.

Struggling from the norm and being inept are two different things. Pyne was borderline inept on Saturday, can’t be dressed up or excused any other way.
 

Sea Turtle

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Weird post.
Riley is basically Brian Kelly all over again, just flashier. 10-2 ceiling, teams always have holes and gets outcoached in big games.

Harbaugh lost 3 or more games every year at UM prior to last year, including an 8-5 record in year 3 and going a combined 11-8 in Years 5 and 6.

Chip Kelly was 10-21 his first 3 years at UCLA before putting together his first winning season last year at 8-4. All while the PAC-12 has been the weakest its been in years with Stanford and USC sucking and Oregon being ehhh.

Where do you even come up with this crap.

Funny thing is if we hadnt hired Freeman, when he is superstar HC in 3-4 years everybody would be bitching we let him go, and would probably say its because the school doesnt invest in football and wouldnt pay him. Its a circular conversation with a lot of people on this board just hopping from one thing to the next making bogus points just to have something to complain about and say how everybody else does it better.

The performance of said coaches doesn't even have anything to do with the point of my post.
I'm talking about big name. Sexy hires and ND not being able to land them.
 

Irish4life

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The performance of said coaches doesn't even have anything to do with the point of my post.
I'm talking about big name. Sexy hires and ND not being able to land them.
Brian Kelly was the #1 coaching candidate on the market when ND landed him in 2009. Marcus Freeman was the #1 defensive coordinator on the market and ND beat out LSU to land him. He would've been a HC this year even if Brian Kelly had stayed, just would've been at Duke or Virginia Tech, not at ND.
 

Irish4life

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A&M was without Max Johnson.

Struggling from the norm and being inept are two different things. Pyne was borderline inept on Saturday, can’t be dressed up or excused any other way.
While this is true, A&M still had it's starter to open the season healthy and went back with him (Haynes King). I'm not denying that Pyne was inept, or trying to say that the QB room is where it needs to be. Just trying to point out that the injury to Buchner has put us in a very bad place (even with his crappy game against Marshall). I think they win against Stanford with a healthy Buchner starting.
 

Old Man Mike

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A few "memories" (far beyond "opinions"):
A. Coach Kelly was and is a great head coach. He heals crummy programs, and makes them serial winners just short of National Championships. When he was hired he inherited a LOUSY QB prospects room. Only Dayne Crist was present as a possible player. When Crist turned into a surprise panicker, Coach had NOBODY. If you revisit Coach's quotes a year later as he contemplated recruiting, he chuckled about this and said (this is pretty close to a quote): Maybe I won't have to recruit eight QBs in this class. In his first recruiting year he DID recruit at least SIX guys who had been high school QBs --- he knew he had to go bonkers in that position in hopes of someone who would be at least competent. The person that he found (AND THE ONLY ONE) was Tommy Rees, who saved our respectability for a few years even as every fan screamed crap at him and Kelly. There were no QBs recruited in the previous 2009 class, and only Crist in the 2008 with Nate Montana as a PWO. Coach scrambled late in the game (remember that he had to let the OC/DC coach Cincy in their bowl game to try to get set up in hopes of salvaging something. He signed Rees, Hendrix, Massa, Danny Spond who was aimed elsewhere, but was a disaster relief option, and a guy named Roback --- Montana's other son slipped away late. SIX QBs. One succeeded against all odds. Thus Kelly's wry humor about recruiting eight QBs. I write this to remind everyone about how much sh!t Coach was facing. Freeman is not facing quite the problems Kelly had (he also inherits high level OL and DL people. Better than Kelly's --- remember that we had only one blue chip OLine recruit and he killed himself in an accident at a party.)
B. Coach Freeman does NOT have Coach Kelly's post-Cincinnati savvy ... probably about ANYTHING except coaching defense (though Kelly was pretty good at that too.) (And Coach Freeman seems to have a better personality for recruiting.) If personnel problems arise (they have), he won't have the "wisdom" yet to deal with them as efficiently as Coach Kelly can do. So fans have the choice: Do you recognize this severe learning curve? If you don't then your view is doomed to emotional ignorance in assessing anything about the Freeman potential and reality. If you DO recognize this, then you must decide whether you are going to be patient or want faster gratification. IE is full of both types. (mostly impatient adolescent behavior, but still a split.) Those recognizing the growing up phase for Coach Freeman, can still be split: those who think he'll be more than a defensive mind and a recruiter, and those who don't. If the latter, then even those who give Coach Freeman some slack may still not think that he is the right guy for this job.

There's lots more that can be said about Coach Kelly and Coach Freeman. They probably should not be over-analyzed and griped about in their at-the-moment performances. For one thing, our great former coach is gone. What's the point of bringing him in as to any pity party? Hate him or not, Coach Kelly was a great coach. All the national commentators agree to that. He's going into the Hall of Fame eventually. All we can hope for now is that Coach Freemen (in what? six to eight years?) becomes a mature head coach who is in the conversation of best NCAA coaches. There's NO data yet pointing to that. There MIGHT be ultimately, but decide for yourselves whether you want to be patient here, and admit that if you voice concrete opinions about how good Coach Freeman will become as a head coach, you, and NO ONE, knows what we are talking about.

... I guess it "passes the time" ... but public opinion (even baseless opinion) CAN ultimately influence real world decisions in people's lives, rather than armchair "fans." I'm choosing to just blank out on Coach Freeman (yes I HOPE he succeeds --- I'm an ND fan) and let this play out. I ain't seen nuthin' yet, but there's a bunch yet to come.
 

CANONIZEFATHERSORIN

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I don't think you can say it "hasn't worked out as of now" for Buchner. Kid was used as a change of pace last year, and played 7 quarters this year. He was put in an impossible spot with what we have said in regards to the WR unit.

Yeah unfortunately I think we can. He had a two game tryout and played horribly. Just take a look at his stat line from the Marshall game. If he was "the guy" he would have put the team on his back and won against Marshall, and would have looked great in a loss against OSU. Looking at his stat line now, he didn't have a single passing touchdown in two games. That is absurdly bad. Unfortunately he's washed. To the portal we go!
 

GowerND11

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Yeah unfortunately I think we can. He had a two game tryout and played horribly. Just take a look at his stat line from the Marshall game. If he was "the guy" he would have put the team on his back and won against Marshall, and would have looked great in a loss against OSU. Looking at his stat line now, he didn't have a single passing touchdown in two games. That is absurdly bad. Unfortunately he's washed. To the portal we go!
The OSU game is a first start, away, at night, in the 'Shoe... Nah that one he did his best with a limited play calling where they tried to play possession ball. Marshall was bad, but at the same time, it wasn't a clean game for much of anyone. Ground game gave him next to nothing, and protection was not great.

Forgive me for thinking he can still be a very good starter for ND. We probably should have brought someone in this year, but we didn't. That's not his fault.
 

CANONIZEFATHERSORIN

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The OSU game is a first start, away, at night, in the 'Shoe... Nah that one he did his best with a limited play calling where they tried to play possession ball. Marshall was bad, but at the same time, it wasn't a clean game for much of anyone. Ground game gave him next to nothing, and protection was not great.

Forgive me for thinking he can still be a very good starter for ND. We probably should have brought someone in this year, but we didn't. That's not his fault.

Sure he had a hard environment for his first game but dude again, 10/18, no TD's. That is very bad. He got two games and looked bad in both, one game he kind of has an excuse (the buckeyes were scary, he sniffles as he plans to...play in the NFL?!?) and in the other game, look dude if he could be "a very good starter for ND" he would have torn Marshall to shreds. Like sorry, thanks for playing but you're washed. He's started two games in like four years and looked mediocre to bad in both. Hopefully he's getting good grades.
 

Rockin’Irish

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Sure he had a hard environment for his first game but dude again, 10/18, no TD's. That is very bad. He got two games and looked bad in both, one game he kind of has an excuse (the buckeyes were scary, he sniffles as he plans to...play in the NFL?!?) and in the other game, look dude if he could be "a very good starter for ND" he would have torn Marshall to shreds. Like sorry, thanks for playing but you're washed. He's started two games in like four years and looked mediocre to bad in both. Hopefully he's getting good grades.
I would agree that Buchner didn’t look very impressive in hist first two game but it’s not all on him. The receiver core is/was limited with at least 3 injured and the remaining targets largely unproven. The OL also played without cohesion those first two games both in run blocking as well as pass protection. I’m all in on looking at the transfer portal for 2023 but I don’t think we can say that Buchner can’t still be a very good player for ND. He lacks in experience only playing his junior year in HS and a few games in 2021 (and the 1 and 3/4 games in 2022). He has tons of ability but what we don’t know is how his mind can handle the pressure. I sincerely expect him to improve dramatically.
 

CANONIZEFATHERSORIN

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I would agree that Buchner didn’t look very impressive in hist first two game but it’s not all on him. The receiver core is/was limited with at least 3 injured and the remaining targets largely unproven. The OL also played without cohesion those first two games both in run blocking as well as pass protection. I’m all in on looking at the transfer portal for 2023 but I don’t think we can say that Buchner can’t still be a very good player for ND. He lacks in experience only playing his junior year in HS and a few games in 2021 (and the 1 and 3/4 games in 2022). He has tons of ability but what we don’t know is how his mind can handle the pressure. I sincerely expect him to improve dramatically.

Okay I hope it's not his fault and he will develop into an incredible NFL quality quarterback before he gets hurt again in like Week 5 next year too (glass cannons who lose to Marshall are definitely the future of the QB position lol).
 

ndfanatic78

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Sure he had a hard environment for his first game but dude again, 10/18, no TD's. That is very bad. He got two games and looked bad in both, one game he kind of has an excuse (the buckeyes were scary, he sniffles as he plans to...play in the NFL?!?) and in the other game, look dude if he could be "a very good starter for ND" he would have torn Marshall to shreds. Like sorry, thanks for playing but you're washed. He's started two games in like four years and looked mediocre to bad in both. Hopefully he's getting good grades.
Buchner threw 2 perfect deep balls to Lenzy and he couldn't make any adjustments with the ball in the air to come up with them. Lenzy let one of the balls literally hit him in the head. Buchner's issues were not all about his talent. In the Marshal game he had a leaky sieve for an Oline who couldn't pass protect or get a push running the ball. None of that was Buchner's fault. He's played 2 games in 4 years he might need a little more time to get up to speed. It just sucks that he got injured and that is going to be the biggest thing he has to over come is his "tendency" to get banged up. He did miss Lenzy on the one crossing route that probably was a touchdown if he hits him stride but every single QB including Tom Brady missed those throws from time to time. Pyne with a 70% completion rate missed how may open deep balls. I won't write him off yet but he needs to stay healthy.
 

ColinKSU

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Buchner was put in an impossible position at Ohio State. I don’t blame that on him.

That said, he missed his sophomore and senior seasons of HS, was a situational wildcat QB as a freshman at Notre Dame and now he missed his sophomore year to injury.

At some point, that mountain just gets too high to climb for a kid. I don’t know that it’s going to happen for him here, and it’s be malpractice for the coaches to assume it will when they plan the QB room.
 

GowerND11

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Sure he had a hard environment for his first game but dude again, 10/18, no TD's. That is very bad. He got two games and looked bad in both, one game he kind of has an excuse (the buckeyes were scary, he sniffles as he plans to...play in the NFL?!?) and in the other game, look dude if he could be "a very good starter for ND" he would have torn Marshall to shreds. Like sorry, thanks for playing but you're washed. He's started two games in like four years and looked mediocre to bad in both. Hopefully he's getting good grades.
Dude, first possession against OSU, he took a shot to the chest, delivered the ball perfect, and we got a 55 yard pass play. Then Tommy ran three straight times right at the defense. Not sure how Buchner can throw a TD there. TD series he was 4/4, we ran it in. Take that. There was the BS OPI on Salerno which killed a drive. Just missed Jayden Thomas in the 3rd on a long TD because he took a shot because the OL didn't block a middle pass rush.

ND ran the ball almost 2:1 against passing in that game. Buchner was sacked 3 times, hit as he threw the ball (or just after) numerous more. I mean, he played about as well as he could given the play calls, WR talent, and lack of pass pro.
 

IrishLax

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Isn't it COMICAL in retrospect? We don't want to wait on interviewing a HC that is so successful that he takes his Non-P5 team to the Playoffs to hire an untested DC and retain a young bull OC. Because no way would Fickell been okay with an OC being put on him. Like the equivalent of a Jet Sweep with your slowest WR on the goal line

What a giant shit show Swarbrick engineered.
Why is that comical? You’d risk losing literally an entire recruiting class waiting until after ESP to hire a coach. That is a death sentence for a team.
 

Te'o4Heisman

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The performance of said coaches doesn't even have anything to do with the point of my post.
I'm talking about big name. Sexy hires and ND not being able to land them.
I mean...your words in your post "hire a difference maker", then you listed a coach that had a 10-21 records in his first 3 seasons and wasn't in high demand, and well, nevermind. I dont know why I do this to myself.
 

Sea Turtle

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I mean...your words in your post "hire a difference maker", then you listed a coach that had a 10-21 records in his first 3 seasons and wasn't in high demand, and well, nevermind. I dont know why I do this to myself.

I dont know why I bother either. You were so busy compiling coaching records that you didn't even bother to read the crux of the post.

ND not hiring big name, splashy hires. And yes, they tend to be shot across the bow difference makers. Yeah, we know it took Harbaugh longer than expected o get it going. It was sti a BIG hire.
It's not difficult to grasp. You can do it
It's always up and comers or coordinators or fall backs who ND hires.
 
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Irish#1

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I agree. BK proved over the last 5 years that he'd have his teams prepared to beat the teams they were supposed to beat. We all took this for granted and yearned for more when it came to competing against the very best. I believe the same would've played out this year, especially given the holes in this roster. (Do you think a BK coached team against Ok State last year loses that lead though? I personally think ND would've ended the NY6 losing streak).
They would have because MF would have been running the D, not a line coach learning with just a few weeks to learn.

I've been purposely staying away from this board after this shit show of a season but there is one thing to remember:

We've seen some terrible losses through the years and many of them came under Kelly. Navy, MAC teams, Tulsa, etc. Those were all under Kelly and with Kelly's player's with no QB.
Stanford and Marshall losses = Kelly players with no QB.

Let's hold tight folks.
Yes, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Lot's of variables in play this year, including pretty much a new coaching staff. Even these guys need to learn to gel some and be in sync. It doesn't happen overnight. Freeman will get it figured out.
 

arahop

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If LSU hangs on here, BK will get a win against a top 10 Team. Had 2 such wins at ND. #FreeTheNDFootballProgram #NDcompetesAcademically#MonkMalloy
 
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