Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[benneboy]

Not to be a wet blanket, but....

1) Most ND fans will start BK2.0 after 2016. But leaving 2017 off the table conveniently eliminates 3 losses (UGA / Miami / Stanford).
2) 2018 best wins....1) A Michigan team that gave up 62 to OSU and lost by over 3TD's to Florida in their two most difficult games 2) A 4 loss Stanford team 3) An exceedingly overrated Syracuse team.
3) 2019 best wins....1) A 5 loss UVA 2) Navy 3) A tie among 5 Loss USC, 5 Loss VT, 6 loss Iowa State
4) 2020 best win was Clemson, which was thrilling. But at the same time, once their injuries cleared and they got back TL, ND got bent over a barrel by them. Only other notable win was UNC, which ended the year with 4 losses (without playing Clemson) with losses to UVA / FSU / ND / Texas A&M.
5) 2021 - Wisky, who already has 2 losses and could end up with 4 or 5 before the end of the year.

I don't mean that as a knock on BK, but ND has consistently beaten who they should, which is something he couldn't even say thru 2016. The program is clearly in a better spot. But that stat makes it seem like they are constently winning against the tier 1b teams (tier 1a would be Ohio State, Clemson (before 2021), Bama...that's it as far as I am concerned).

How was Syracuse over-rated? Outside of the ND game they only lost to Pitt and Clemson. Pitt in overtime. They lost to Clemson by 4 and very well could have beat them. Clemson won the national championship that year and didn't lose a game. Then Syracuse roughed up #16 WV in a bowl game.

If anything Syracuse was underrated and we put it on them.

 

[Ndaccountant]

You won’t find much better doing the same for OSU or Clemson in the regular season which circles back to the tweet’s OG point about what we have won

or a different way, do the same exercise for Georgia, Oregon, Wisconsin, UNC etc

I edited my post to provide a bit more context. But Georgia has beaten us twice in the last 4 years, Florida has better wins (crushed Michigan in 2018 way more than what we did, beat UGA this year, etc.) and I wouldn't classify UNC or Wisconsin as tier 1a or tier 1b teams. UNC is a low-end tier 2 team under Brown.

Again, not faulting BK, the schedule is the schedule. But the current ND schedule isn't as top heavy as it once was.

 

[Dale]

I edited my post to provide a bit more context. But Georgia has beaten us twice in the last 4 years, Florida has better wins (crushed Michigan in 2018 way more than what we did, beat UGA this year, etc.) and I wouldn't classify UNC or Wisconsin as tier 1a or tier 1b teams. UNC is a low-end tier 2 team under Brown.

Again, not faulting BK, the schedule is the schedule. But the current ND schedule isn't as top heavy as it once was.

So 2019, “But Georgia beat a ND team that got crushed by Michigan later that year, lost to a bad South Carolina team, and beat an overrated Baylor squad that got beat by OU twice”. You can pull at any string that’s not Bama. The teams you beat’s resumes are by nature worse because well you beat them

 

[Ndaccountant]

How was Syracuse over-rated? Outside of the ND game they only lost to Pitt and Clemson. Pitt in overtime. They lost to Clemson by 4 and very well could have beat them. Clemson won the national championship that year and didn't lose a game. Then Syracuse roughed up #16 WV in a bowl game.

If anything Syracuse was underrated and we put it on them.

1) Clemson over the last 5 years has at least 1 game a year that's a head scratcher, just like most teams. ND beat Vandy by 5 in 2018. Does that make Vandy good? Cuse's SOS was middle of the road at best. Their opponents records (excluding games against each other) was 82-67 (excluding FCS wins). That includes 21 wins between Clemson and ND in that stat. Meaning the other wins and loss (to a 7 loss PITT team) came against a schedule of below .500 teams. Their schedule was incredibly weak and the rough up of WV...Will Grier did not play in that game. That wasn't the same version of WVU that nearly beat OU.

 

[Ndaccountant]

So 2019, “But Georgia beat a ND team that got crushed by Michigan later that year, lost to a bad South Carolina team, and beat an overrated Baylor squad that got beat by OU twice”. You can pull at any string that’s not Bama. The teams you beat’s resumes are by nature worse because well you beat them

My point is that ND has avoided the WTF loss (save for 2019 Michigan). ND got the best of Clemson in South Bend, tip of the cap on capitalizing on that opportunity, but right or wrong, it comes with an asterisk. ND has not played any other tier 1B teams over that time. Some of the other schools in the same tier of ND has and have won.

I am thrilled to not have the losses, trust me on that. But I think the stat ignores the lack of top tier wins (schedule driven).

 

[greyhammer90]

Need to get that neg rep button back on the site

 

[Irish#1]

Not to be a wet blanket, but....

1) Most ND fans will start BK2.0 after 2016. But leaving 2017 off the table conveniently eliminates 3 losses (UGA / Miami / Stanford).
2) 2018 best wins....1) A Michigan team that gave up 62 to OSU and lost by over 3TD's to Florida in their two most difficult games 2) A 4 loss Stanford team 3) An exceedingly overrated Syracuse team.
3) 2019 best wins....1) A 5 loss UVA 2) Navy 3) A tie among 5 Loss USC, 5 Loss VT, 6 loss Iowa State
4) 2020 best win was Clemson, which was thrilling. But at the same time, once their injuries cleared and they got back TL, ND got bent over a barrel by them. Only other notable win was UNC, which ended the year with 4 losses (without playing Clemson) with losses to UVA / FSU / ND / Texas A&M.
5) 2021 - Wisky, who already has 2 losses and could end up with 4 or 5 before the end of the year.

I don't mean that as a knock on BK, but ND has consistently beaten who they should, which is something he couldn't even say thru 2016. The program is clearly in a better spot. But that stat makes it seem like they are consistently winning against the tier 1b teams (tier 1a would be Ohio State, Clemson (before 2021), Bama...that's it as far as I am concerned). They aren't doing that and probably have 1 win against a tier 1b program since 2018 (tier 1b for me would be Oregon, UGA, Florida, Clemson without TL in 2020, maybe texas A&M?). The problem is they just don't play them much except for bowl games.

I never understand where this logic comes from. The schedule looked pretty tough to start the season. Every year there are teams that don't live up to the preseason hype and that directly effects the SoS. What is ND or any other team to do? You can't make schedule changes during the year, so is that ND's fault they didn't pan out? If you dig into the schedules, I bet you will find a comparable situation with most other teams. Wiscy now has two losses, but both were to top 10 teams. That doesn't mean Wiscy is bad

 

[Irish#1]

My point is that ND has avoided the WTF loss (save for 2019 Michigan). ND got the best of Clemson in South Bend, tip of the cap on capitalizing on that opportunity, but right or wrong, it comes with an asterisk. ND has not played any other tier 1B teams over that time. Some of the other schools in the same tier of ND has and have won.

I am thrilled to not have the losses, trust me on that. But I think the stat ignores the lack of top tier wins (schedule driven).

With that logic, beating Wiscy with your 3rd string QB, LT and missing your starting NT gives you positive asterisks.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

With that logic, beating Wiscy with your 3rd string QB, LT and missing your starting NT gives you positive asterisks.

I think people are already forgetting, based on the crooked 4th quarter number, that we came from behind in the fourth with said 3rd string QB, 3rd string LT and backup NT. It was 13-10 and we hadn't scored a point since the 2nd quarter.

Not to mention we were a TD-dog on a neutral field, yet Wisconsin sucks and is now overrated? Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[Irish#1]

BK is on Dan Patrick right now.

 

[NDBoiler]

BK is on Dan Patrick right now.

Did he have anything interesting to say?

 

[ulukinatme]

Did he have anything interesting to say?

Whole team....executed.

 

[Irish#1]

Did he have anything interesting to say?

Nothing we haven't heard before. Mentioned he knew before the 2012 NC that it was going to be a real struggle, doesn't feel being the winningest coach is note worthy without a NC. Said he has no timeframe in mind when it comes to retiring. Loves coming to work, teaching the players and has a great support system in place at ND.

 

[NDMatt91]

Nothing we haven't heard before. Mentioned he knew before the 2012 NC that it was going to be a real struggle, doesn't feel being the winningest coach is note worthy without a NC. Said he has no timeframe in mind when it comes to retiring. Loves coming to work, teaching the players and has a great support system in place at ND.

Didn't he say before his extension last year that his next contract would be his last?

 

[ACamp1900]

Whole team....executed.

Not too often I legit laugh out loud.... thanks.

 

[Irish#1]

Didn't he say before his extension last year that his next contract would be his last?

I think he did, but not totally sure. Maybe my ears deceived me, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Kelly needs to clean house on his staff. Too many friends, JAGs and an OC who should be OC at Marshall.
He needs to get some straight up dogs on his staff. And he needs to hold them accountable. There is no accountability on this staff

 

[NorthDakota]

I'm gonna go ahead and say Tommy was a lazy hire. BK has done so much good. But Tommy (who I dont think is inherently bad) was a bad hire. Notre Dame is not a "learn on the job" school.

Idk if Quinn sucks or the players do. I'll leave that to others to figure out.

If Pyne/Buch ain't the guys moving forward then this season could get ugly.. the offense is trash with Coan. Not blaming him. He'd have been solid with normal ND line, but we don't have a normal ND line. We have a very bad one.

 

[tko]

The stubbornness to stick with Jack that entire first half was such a bad look. VT is licking their chops right now for Jack to start. I knew we weren’t going undefeated this year, but Kelly took the keys away from the guys today. The inflection point is now upon us.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I love most of what Kelly had accomplished at ND. But this program is still a country mile from winning a national championship. Kelly doesn't win the big games and winning a title requires winning two in a row against the Bamas and Clemsons. The mountain is too high for Kelly to climb at this point in his career. I think I'm ready for an amicable transition away from Kelly, maybe Freeman in a year or two.

 

[irishff1014]

I love most of what Kelly had accomplished at ND. But this program is still a country mile from winning a national championship. Kelly doesn't win the big games and winning a title requires winning two in a row against the Bamas and Clemsons. The mountain is too high for Kelly to climb at this point in his career. I think I'm ready for an amicable transition away from Kelly, maybe Freeman in a year or two.

As I stated I think Freeman can be a good defensive coordinator here. However the thought of him taking over as a head coach doesn’t even need to be addressed. He needs to learn that our d- line is the strength to this team and needs to play more than 3 lineman.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I love most of what Kelly had accomplished at ND. But this program is still a country mile from winning a national championship. Kelly doesn't win the big games and winning a title requires winning two in a row against the Bamas and Clemsons. The mountain is too high for Kelly to climb at this point in his career. I think I'm ready for an amicable transition away from Kelly, maybe Freeman in a year or two.

some AD said it best - whatever must be done eventually, should be done immediately. If you’ve decided BK really probably needs to go, just do it now, IMO.

 

[ThePiombino]

some AD said it best - whatever must be done eventually, should be done immediately. If you’ve decided BK really probably needs to go, just do it now, IMO.

Except it's usually not that simple. It's the only reason Kelly was still the coach after 2017.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Except it's usually not that simple. It's the only reason Kelly was still the coach after 2017.

Why isn’t it that simple? I think it IS really that simple.

 

[T-Boone]

I love most of what Kelly had accomplished at ND. But this program is still a country mile from winning a national championship. Kelly doesn't win the big games and winning a title requires winning two in a row against the Bamas and Clemsons. The mountain is too high for Kelly to climb at this point in his career. I think I'm ready for an amicable transition away from Kelly, maybe Freeman in a year or two.

I think we are only a good QB away from winning.
That is why I say we get the best OC/QBC available.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Why isn’t it that simple? I think it IS really that simple.

Who do we hire though? I’m over BK but I literally can’t think of a coach I ‘ want ‘ who is realistic.

if you’re a coach. Do you pick USC or ND? I think 85/90% take USC

 

[ThePiombino]

Why isn’t it that simple? I think it IS really that simple.

Besides the obvious "who would come here?" question (because yes, you have to have consent - this isn't Duke lacrosse. ALLEGEDLY)? You also have to consider who's available that ND would consider. In 2016 Fleck would have come, but we wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Then there's the whole financial aspect. Can we afford the buyout? Can we afford the new coach's demands? Can we afford both simultaneously?

So no. It's NOT that simple.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Besides the obvious "who would come here?" question (because yes, you have to have consent - this isn't Duke lacrosse. ALLEGEDLY)? You also have to consider who's available that ND would consider. In 2016 Fleck would have come, but we wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Then there's the whole financial aspect. Can we afford the buyout? Can we afford the new coach's demands? Can we afford both simultaneously?

So no. It's NOT that simple.

We can afford it easily, do we want to is the question.

 

[Sea Turtle]

We can afford it easily, do we want to is the question.

This is a conversation for three years from now. The best established coaches aren't coming here because they want to win big. And you can't do that at ND. You can have nice teams here but there are always going to be several teams that will crush us

Saban and Meyer are both devout catholics. Saban would have laughed and Meyer said no.....twice. When feelers were sent out 5 years ago, only Dantonio, Narducci and Fleck were receptive. I actually like Fleck but I guess he likes women and that isn't allowed at ND. The other two? Yikes.

Years ago, it got leaked that the coach Swarbrick had in mind if 'what happens if my coach gets run over by a bus' was Al Golden.

Bob Stoops was interested years ago but wanted a chance to, you know, win by having 3-5 borderline guys who were difference makers. ND flatly refused. What are you going to do? ND isn't serious about winning so serious coaches aren't going to come here. You have to take a chance on a younger up and comer and hope he does the best he can.

Who would come now? Maybe Matt Campbell, Jeff Brohm, Clark Lea. They might just promote an assistant

The standard now it seems by the University and fans is just to be better than Weis, Willingham and Davie.

 

[NDRock]

This is a conversation for three years from now. The best established coaches aren't coming here because they want to win big. And you can't do that at ND. You can have nice teams here but there are always going to be several teams that will crush us

Saban and Meyer are both devout catholics. Saban would have laughed and Meyer said no.....twice. When feelers were sent out 5 years ago, only Dantonio, Narducci and Fleck were receptive. I actually like Fleck but I guess he likes women and that isn't allowed at ND. The other two? Yikes.

Years ago, it got leaked that the coach Swarbrick had in mind if 'what happens if my coach gets run over by a bus' was Al Golden.

Bob Stoops was interested years ago but wanted a chance to, you know, win by having 3-5 borderline guys who were difference makers. ND flatly refused. What are you going to do? ND isn't serious about winning so serious coaches aren't going to come here. You have to take a chance on a younger up and comer and hope he does the best he can.

Who would come now? Maybe Matt Campbell, Jeff Brohm, Clark Lea. They might just promote an assistant

The standard now it seems by the University and fans is just to be better than Weis, Willingham and Davie.

Serious question, do you have inside knowledge on this stuff (and know for sure it’s all correct) or do you just cobble it together from Internet forums?