Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[NDRock]

So going against Clemson was "bad luck?" Do you think we're going to be able to play KSU and Boston College in the playoffs?

Sarcasm. Just mocking the fact that you think the only big games the last three years were the ones we lost. Just seems like bad luck that every win that Kelly gets is against a team that sucks.

 

[phork]

Sarcasm. Just mocking the fact that you think the only big games the last three years were the ones we lost. Just seems like bad luck that every win that Kelly gets is against a team that sucks.

Just wondering if you know Kelly's record in Big Games. Top10 matchups etc.

 

[ickythump1225]

Sarcasm. Just mocking the fact that you think the only big games the last three years were the ones we lost. Just seems like bad luck that every win that Kelly gets is against a team that sucks.

We can split hairs about whether or not the USC win in 2017 was a good win but these numbers don't lie:
2012 BSC NG:
Alabama-42
ND-14

2015 Fiesta Bowl:
OSU-44
ND-28

2018 Cotton Bowl:
Clemson-30
ND-3

That's:
Elite Teams-116
ND-45

Let's do yardage too just illustrate the point further:
Alabama- 529
ND-302

OSU-496
ND-405

Clemson-538
ND-248

These are the averages:

Opponents: 38.66 points; 521 yards
ND: 15 points; 318.33 yards

So go back and split hairs and crow about our big time win over USC 3 years ago. When up against the best of the best in the biggest games we are utterly PATHETIC.

Until I see BK win just ONE of these kinds of games (you hear that, ONE game, not a national title every year) I will never be a BK guy.

I get that there's a gap in recruiting ability and all of that but I don't think one NY6 bowl win is too much to ask considering teams like Boise St, UCF, GA Tech, and Stanford all have at least one and we can recruit far better than them.

But no, no you totally pwned me with FACTS and LOGIC because that USC win in 2017 was BIG TIME.

 

[Circa]

Just wondering if you know Kelly's record in Big Games. Top10 matchups etc.

It's actually not that bad If you look at It year by year, Team by Team, Game by Game.

 

[NorthDakota]

That Virginia game starting to look okay hahah they are cutting through Clemson like a hot knife.

 

[ND88]

Yes, gotta win the Michigan game. That game is generally a pretty good test of if you have a good team or not. If you lose to Michigan, you probably aren't anything to write home about, if you beat them, generally an affirmative sign that you are probably a good football team.

If you lose to Michigan, it's probably raining too hard and Walmart sold out of umbrellas.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

We can split hairs about whether or not the USC win in 2017 was a good win but these numbers don't lie:
2012 BSC NG:
Alabama-42
ND-14

2015 Fiesta Bowl:
OSU-44
ND-28

2018 Cotton Bowl:
Clemson-30
ND-3

That's:
Elite Teams-116
ND-45

Let's do yardage too just illustrate the point further:
Alabama- 529
ND-302

OSU-496
ND-405

Clemson-538
ND-248

These are the averages:

Opponents: 38.66 points; 521 yards
ND: 15 points; 318.33 yards

So go back and split hairs and crow about our big time win over USC 3 years ago. When up against the best of the best in the biggest games we are utterly PATHETIC.

Until I see BK win just ONE of these kinds of games (you hear that, ONE game, not a national title every year) I will never be a BK guy.

I get that there's a gap in recruiting ability and all of that but I don't think one NY6 bowl win is too much to ask considering teams like Boise St, UCF, GA Tech, and Stanford all have at least one and we can recruit far better than them.

But no, no you totally pwned me with FACTS and LOGIC because that USC win in 2017 was BIG TIME.

So beating OU on the road in 2012 doesn't qualify? If not, then certainly beating UGA or Michigan this year does not.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that's the one thing he really needs to change is being more prepared in the big games. But since you said give you one game, just wondering if that one game qualifies in your eyes. Could even throw in Stanford in 2012. I know it's Stanford but they had been ND's Daddy for many years.

And when it comes to the bowl games, we always seem to get matched up with the best possible team available. OSU recently. Back in the Weis days it was OSU and LSU. Boise State got Arizona and TCU in their last 2 BCS bowls.

 

[NDohio]

I won't judge UGA too hard for this, they have a pretty good track record lately of being a high level team.

College football games can get away from you sometimes. Notre Dame fans know that well haha

I just don't get this. You are not the only one that feels this way, but I don't get it. GA and ND are basically the same, but ND fans seem envious of the GA program. Both programs win the games they should, they will beat a good team every now and then(GA slightly more often than ND), lose a "what the hell" game every other year, and get blown out by great teams. GA fired a good coach to go get the guy that they thought was THE guy that would lead them to a national title - ND fans want to do the same - but the results for GA are basically the same as before.

 

[stlnd01]

So beating OU on the road in 2012 doesn't qualify? If not, then certainly beating UGA or Michigan this year does not.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that's the one thing he really needs to change is being more prepared in the big games. But since you said give you one game, just wondering if that one game qualifies in your eyes. Could even throw in Stanford in 2012. I know it's Stanford but they had been ND's Daddy for many years.

And when it comes to the bowl games, we always seem to get matched up with the best possible team available. OSU recently. Back in the Weis days it was OSU and LSU. Boise State got Arizona and TCU in their last 2 BCS bowls.

Right. I get why people bring up the NY6 drought. It's not great. But to then say "Well UCF and Ga. Tech have won NY6 bowls so why can't we" is kind of irrelevant. They get in on auto-bids and matched up with other weak auto-bid teams. We have to earn a spot. And we've only even played in one actual NY6 bowl under Kelly. The other two Big Bowl Game examples were BCS Title/Playoff games, which are a little different.
If we'd gotten a few more breaks this year, we could be playing Memphis or Virginia in an NY6. We'd probably even win. Would that really change your mind about anything?

 

[phork]

Right. I get why people bring up the NY6 drought. It's not great. But to then say "Well UCF and Ga. Tech have won NY6 bowls so why can't we" is kind of irrelevant. They get in on auto-bids and matched up with other weak auto-bid teams. We have to earn a spot. And we've only even played in one actual NY6 bowl under Kelly. The other two Big Bowl Game examples were BCS Title/Playoff games, which are a little different.
If we'd gotten a few more breaks this year, we could be playing Memphis or Virginia in an NY6. We'd probably even win. Would that really change your mind about anything?

A few more breaks like Michigan not ass hammering us? That game set this program back. Even a close loss ND would probably still be a top10 team.

 

[IrishTusker]

And when it comes to the bowl games, we always seem to get matched up with the best possible team available. OSU recently. Back in the Weis days it was OSU and LSU. Boise State got Arizona and TCU in their last 2 BCS bowls.

74% of P5 programs have won a NY6 bowl since we last won one (1994). It's not that hard to do. I don't hold the losses to Alabama, OSU, or Clemson against Kelly particularly (although being competitive would be nice). The issue I have is all the years where we had the talent to be in a NY6 bowl but did not make one: 2011, 2013, 2014, 2017, and now 2019. Maybe if we were in NY6 bowls more often we would have easier matchups occasionally. We'd be in one this year if not for the embarrassing and inexplicable loss to UM.

 

[GreenGemsOmally]

74% of P5 programs have won a NY6 bowl since we last won one (1994). It's not that hard to do. I don't hold the losses to Alabama, OSU, or Clemson against Kelly particularly (although being competitive would be nice). The issue I have is all the years where we had the talent to be in a NY6 bowl but did not make one: 2011, 2013, 2014, 2017, and now 2019. Maybe if we were in NY6 bowls more often we would have easier matchups occasionally. We'd be in one this year if not for the embarrassing and inexplicable loss to UM.

There are two other reasons why we aren't playing in an NY6 this year though, that keep getting overlooked. Yes the UM loss is an anchor on us, but it's not all.

1) The field is pretty top heavy this year. There are a lot of teams who went 10-2 and 11-1, which really limits the spaces for those at large bowls. It's unusual, I think, to have this many teams with 10 wins at the end of the season. Usually there is more cannibalism that would have allowed ND to rise up in the spots.

2) The two playoff games use the Fiesta and the Peach bowl this year. This means that two of the three games that could have been At-Large vs. At-Large, which might have meant that ND could have had a favorable matchup against a team like Memphis or Boise State, are being automatically used by the playoffs already.

Both of these conditions were significant in causing our placement in the likely camping bowl. It sucks, but there's not much we could have done vs. these two conditions unless we had won out, then we would have gotten pantsed in the playoffs anyways.

 

[Crazy Balki]

And the quarterback he let get away will (likely) lead his new team to the title...man that would suck as a Georgia fan...

Meanwhile at Ohio State, the QB they let get away may very well lead LSU over them.

 

[phork]

There are two other reasons why we aren't playing in an NY6 this year though, that keep getting overlooked. Yes the UM loss is an anchor on us, but it's not all.

1) The field is pretty top heavy this year. There are a lot of teams who went 10-2 and 11-1, which really limits the spaces for those at large bowls. It's unusual, I think, to have this many teams with 10 wins at the end of the season. Usually there is more cannibalism that would have allowed ND to rise up in the spots.

2) The two playoff games use the Fiesta and the Peach bowl this year. This means that two of the three games that could have been At-Large vs. At-Large, which might have meant that ND could have had a favorable matchup against a team like Memphis or Boise State, are being automatically used by the playoffs already.

Both of these conditions were significant in causing our placement in the likely camping bowl. It sucks, but there's not much we could have done vs. these two conditions unless we had won out, then we would have gotten pantsed in the playoffs anyways.

There is only 1 reason. The loss at UM. An 11-1 ND is not getting snubbed for the riffraff currently above them.

 

[ARALOU]

Meanwhile at Ohio State, the QB they let get away may very well lead LSU over them.

Is the Oklahoma QB not a transfer also? Strange year in my opinion. Could three QBs in the playoff be transfers? The transfer portal is beginning to look like a way out for the QB that chose the wrong system or didn't look at the depth chart.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

For all the “we need 5 star players” to compete with the big boys, please explain Wisconsin’s performance yesterday.

 

[ARALOU]

For all the “we need 5 star players” to compete with the big boys, please explain Wisconsin’s performance yesterday.

They gave up 27 unanswered points in the 2nd half, got shutout in the second half. I think their depth and talent level got to them some. They did look good in the first half though. Not unlike Georgia against Bama 2 years ago.

 

[Bluto]

For all the “we need 5 star players” to compete with the big boys, please explain Wisconsin’s performance yesterday.

They needed more 5 star players?

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Some of you just like to whine.

 

[Ndaccountant]

For all the “we need 5 star players” to compete with the big boys, please explain Wisconsin’s performance yesterday.

 

[ickythump1225]

So beating OU on the road in 2012 doesn't qualify? If not, then certainly beating UGA or Michigan this year does not.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that's the one thing he really needs to change is being more prepared in the big games. But since you said give you one game, just wondering if that one game qualifies in your eyes. Could even throw in Stanford in 2012. I know it's Stanford but they had been ND's Daddy for many years.

And when it comes to the bowl games, we always seem to get matched up with the best possible team available. OSU recently. Back in the Weis days it was OSU and LSU. Boise State got Arizona and TCU in their last 2 BCS bowls.

When I said "just one of those games" I meant a NY6 type game. That is my standard because it's more objective and less prone to hair splitting. Different people will feel differently about OU 2012 or Miami 2017 or whatever. I want a big time bowl win. I used to feel like I would think ND is "back" when they won a national title. I'm willing to water that down to a NY6 bowl win would match the accomplishment of these illustrious programs:
-Washington
-Wisconsin
-Oregon St
-Utah
-West VA
-Penn St
-Kansas
-Boise St
-Iowa
-Stanford
-Louisville
-Oregon
-UCF
-TCU
-GA Tech
-Michigan St
-Houston

All of those are non-elite or non blue blood (PSU may be elite or a blue blood depending on your own personal definition) that have won a BCS or NY6 bowl and no not all of them played the Arizonas of the world to win them either.

I just don't think after 10 years with BK it's too much to ask to accomplish something even Kansas has been able to pull off.

 

[ickythump1225]

There is only 1 reason. The loss at UM. An 11-1 ND is not getting snubbed for the riffraff currently above them.

No way 1 loss is worth 11 spots in the rankings. 11-1 wouldn't get us in this year. We would be in a NY6 bowl though.

 

[Circa]

No way 1 loss is worth 11 spots in the rankings. 11-1 wouldn't get us in this year. We would be in a NY6 bowl though.

Phork Is right. We might have got hurt by the UGA loss but we would be in over an 11-1.. Oklahoma. The whole rankings would be different.

#Blue and Gold Matters

 

[phork]

No way 1 loss is worth 11 spots in the rankings. 11-1 wouldn't get us in this year. We would be in a NY6 bowl though.

We dropped 8 spots after that loss, and just stayed stagnant for 5 straight wins. Had we won we more than likely moved up. After that OU, PennSt, Florida and Alabama all lost. At 11-1 ND was in the playoff instead of OU. Thats a fact.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

Phork Is right.

"We'll wire the Governor for a Championship Appearance."

 

[irishnd31]

"We'll wire the Governor for a Championship Appearance."

 

[DogDaysIrish]

 

[stlnd01]

We dropped 8 spots after that loss, and just stayed stagnant for 5 straight wins. Had we won we more than likely moved up. After that OU, PennSt, Florida and Alabama all lost. At 11-1 ND was in the playoff instead of OU. Thats a fact.

I don't think so. We'd be #5, maybe 6 behind Georgia, since they beat us. Yeah we'd have beat four ranked teams but the best of them would've been four-loss Michigan, ranked ~20th. Oklahoma has two wins over Baylor, which remains in the top ten, somehow. And a conference championship, which people like to use as a rationalization for these sort of things.
But, we'd be in the Orange Bowl, playing Virginia again, with our best shot to win an NY6 bowl in a long time.

 

[Irish#1]

I thought this was the BK thread and not the bowl prediction thread?

 

[Rogue219]

I won't judge UGA too hard for this, they have a pretty good track record lately of being a high level team.

College football games can get away from you sometimes. Notre Dame fans know that well haha

They got their doors blown off Saturday and didn't show up last year against Texas in the bowl game. LSU blew them out last year too. Even the year they won the SEC and got to the title game, they got housed at Auburn in the regular season.

We've seen this before with UGA. I think Smart has made the program better compared to what it was under Richt, but the results sure seem similar, and it is a result driven business. Not that anyone here needs reminded of that.