Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[IrishLax]

I see #11 as a very good job. Not a great job. Not a top 5 or top 10 job, which reiterates my point that if BK were interested in LSU, I wouldn't blame him. Take the blue and gold sunglasses off. It's not 1975 anymore.

#11 is, almost by definition, top 10. And as I said, that #11 is the LOWEST you will find from similar objective polls. They also did a separate evaluation piece of what "tiers" jobs fall into... Notre Dame is Tier 1.

There is obviously no amount of facts or coaching surveys that are going to change your opinion, so I'm done.

 

[IrishLax]

Isn't there plenty of room to differentiate between the job being desirable and still difficult?

I can see why any poll from coaches would have Notre Dame high on desirability, mainly because any coach instantly becomes massively more popular in the national consciousness.

But is there any doubt that Notre Dame is the most difficult Tier I job in the country? I think that's the issue more than anything else.

Absolutely. Notre Dame is difficult. But what Leppy has been saying in this thread is that the difficulties make it unattractive to potential coaches. That part is very untrue.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Your posts are a joke. He went into Norman with a subpar offense and won. He's gone into Palo Alto and won, Kelly's offense is very good even if it's frustrating for us.

Imagine if he could run his offense without all of the stuff at ND. Imagine he never had the frozen 5, EG suspension or having to boot his senior safety. Imagine if he could pull any player he wanted instead of selecting from a reduced pool of applicants?

I think Kelly would do very well at a state school in any of the P5 programs. What it does for the perception of the program is not good. As others have said, lateral moves are never a good thing. I would much prefer he flirt with the NFL.

Imagine a straight up run game. I mean we'd score 70 a game. It's easily possible. Just trash that zone read shit. Kizer isn't a 'quick' enough runner for it to do anything.

Yeah, all this over a completely unsubstantiated rumor?

I think he was just trolling for fun.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

#11 is, almost by definition, top 10. And as I said, that #11 is the LOWEST you will find from similar objective polls. They also did a separate evaluation piece of what "tiers" jobs fall into... Notre Dame is Tier 1.

There is obviously no amount of facts or coaching surveys that are going to change your opinion, so I'm done.

I appreciate the surveys and they're valid. Maybe our difference is I see ND as a top 15 job and you might see it as a top 5 or top 10 job. Depends how you define Tier 1.

2004: Urban Meyer turned down ND for Florida, on Lou Holtz's advice
2004: ND had to hire an alum with no college experience for the job
2009: ND was DAMN lucky to get an Irish Catholic (Kelly) who liked ND in a year when no other high profile jobs were open

If Kelly were to leave ND for a place like LSU, Kelly would be getting the upgrade in that break up.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm surprised ND is outside the top 10. Who was 1-10?

Mind you, it's mainly an internal list put together by ESPN writers, but I thought the methodology was pretty decent... they look at location, recruiting base, budget, and administrative support/stability. Then they solicit input from active coaches, agents, and administrators on the schools gauge which is the "best job." These articles are "insider" articles behind paywall so I can't link them in full, but:

10. Clemson
9. Georgia
8. Oklahoma
7. LSU
6. Florida
5. Florida State
4. USC
3. Texas
2. Ohio State
1. Alabama

Michigan was #12, behind ND. Texas was #1 the year before... dropped to #3.

The other thing they do most years is a straight poll of coaches. We've discussed these polls on here before, but here's an old one: ESPN.com: NCF - ESPN.com poll: Coaches tab Florida their dream job ... and the one last year had Notre Dame #1 among Group of Five coaches polled, but I can't seem to track down that link. Probably behind paywall, too... but I know I at least posted a snippet of it on here last year.

So in "best job" style rankings, Notre Dame is towards the back end of the top 10 usually because of location and recruiting (ESPN ranked Notre Dame as the #14 school in terms of recruiting attractiveness). In terms of "desirability" for a coach, Notre Dame routinely has ranked in the top 5 for well over a decade.

 

[GowerND11]

Uhhh no, sorry. He hasn't won at Stanford, and in fact, his un-ability to create any kind of push in the run game was a major factor in losing last year (besides the crap defense). And oh wow, he beat a pretty good Oklahoma team in 2012. I give Kelly credit for the willingness to commit to the run game (outside of the long run by CW, the run game averaged right around 4.0). The passing game was pretty bad outside of the 50 yard pass to Brown. Not surprising though. Holding the Okie defense to abysmal YPC really helped though.

His offense isn't that good. He's had elite talent on the OL. Elite talent at WR/TE and some really good RBs. This thought that he would be better with a bigger pool of players to recruit is insane. Your posts are crap.

Flat out wrong with the bolded. We rushed for 299 yards with an 8.3 YPC against Stanford, while holding them to 153 yards on 3.6 YPC.

 

[NDgradstudent]

2004: Urban Meyer turned down ND for Florida, on Lou Holtz's advice

That's a new one. I thought it was Davie? Or that we only offered half the salary UF was offering? Or that we didn't agree to JUCO transfers and a certain number of auto-admit athletes? Or that he wanted to recruit closer to where he lived?

If Lou told him not to come, why does Lou show his face on campus?

 

[IrishLax]

Flat out wrong with the bolded. We rushed for 299 yards with an 8.3 YPC against Stanford, while holding them to 153 yards on 3.6 YPC.

Some of these people live in this weird alternatively reality where the running game sucks no matter how well it actually performs.

 

[bluengold4732]

In that Stanford game Adams broke a 50+ yarder for a TD and Kizer had a few big runs as well. Not every carry is gonna result in positive yards let alone gash plays...I say 299 is a hell of a total. Now the Clemson game was a different story but they basically played with 9 guys in the box the whole game. Although the run game looks rough in games anytime you have over 2,000 yards in a season I would chuck it up as a success

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Uhhh no, sorry. He hasn't won at Stanford, and in fact, his un-ability to create any kind of push in the run game was a major factor in losing last year (besides the crap defense). And oh wow, he beat a pretty good Oklahoma team in 2012. I give Kelly credit for the willingness to commit to the run game (outside of the long run by CW, the run game averaged right around 4.0). The passing game was pretty bad outside of the 50 yard pass to Brown. Not surprising though. Holding the Okie defense to abysmal YPC really helped though.

His offense isn't that good. He's had elite talent on the OL. Elite talent at WR/TE and some really good RBs. This thought that he would be better with a bigger pool of players to recruit is insane. Your posts are crap.

Because others have already called out your "un-ability" to think, I'll try to not duplicate info. Our run game blew the doors off last year. Our passing game has been more than enough to win every game on the schedule so far this year.

Every time Kelly has had a truly dominant player, he's utilized them incredibly well. He did it with Eifert and Floyd and Theo and TJ Jones and Fuller and Prosise and it goes on and on and on.

Last year, we were 27th in the country on rush offense, 35th in passing and 23rd in total offense.

This year we're 30th in scoring, 74th in rushing but 15th in passing which puts us at 23rd in total offense.

So 23rd was good enough last year to get a big BCS bowl and reach 10 wins but this year it's led to a 2-3 start.

In 2014 (Golson's final year) we still had the 19th ranked passing offense.

And we freaking torched Stanford's defense last year in all phases of the game. But uh yeah....his offense sucks because: reasons.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Some of these people live in this weird alternatively reality where the running game sucks no matter how well it actually performs.

Yes and no.

I don't think people will say it sucks per se or last year it was terrible. But like everything, it isn't nearly as good nor bad as what it seems. The problem I think most fans have isn't the box score results or the YPC metric. It's the "feel" for how it was attained. BK has admitted numerous times his run game is not the I formation, run it up your ass 40 times a game, type style. Instead, it is zone reads, stretch plays, single back formations designed to gash the opponent for big plays, while largely using zone blocking schemes.

Last year was a great example of what that can produce with safeties occupied by WR's, great line play and explosive backs. Last year ND was 3rd in the nation in rushingS&P+. However, tucked into that great season, was this stat.......ND was 58th nationally in power run success rate. So not picking up that 3rd down or not being able to stuff it into the endzone from the 2 yard line resonates with many people. The running game was great last year......except when then needed to power it home. It's finesse in a way and some old style traditionalists hate it.

This year.....ND rushingS&P+ comes in at......62. We will see how that improves as the year moves on.

EDIT: One more thing.....ND's stuff rate last year (% of runs by RB that are stopped at, or before, the LOS) was 20.5%, good for 87th in the country. That is why I think style and design is what leads to the frustration of many fans.

 

[kmoose]

Uhhh no, sorry. He hasn't won at Stanford, and in fact, his un-ability to create any kind of push in the run game was a major factor in losing last year (besides the crap defense). And oh wow, he beat a pretty good Oklahoma team in 2012. I give Kelly credit for the willingness to commit to the run game (outside of the long run by CW, the run game averaged right around 4.0). The passing game was pretty bad outside of the 50 yard pass to Brown. Not surprising though. Holding the Okie defense to abysmal YPC really helped though.

His offense isn't that good. He's had elite talent on the OL. Elite talent at WR/TE and some really good RBs. This thought that he would be better with a bigger pool of players to recruit is insane. Your posts are crap.

Well it sure as hell isn't BAD. ND is averaging almost 500 yards(495.4) and almost 40(39.8) points a game.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Just a visual reminder that IU beat MSU, doing what we could not do (in year 7)...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins lost a bet with teammate Nate Sudfeld over Indiana... <a href="https://t.co/6JRYiXOwsc">https://t.co/6JRYiXOwsc</a> <a href="https://t.co/niq16YItvK">pic.twitter.com/niq16YItvK</a></p>— John Keim (@john_keim) <a href="https://twitter.com/john_keim/status/783751666281566209">October 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We are IU. We are Hawaii. We are Furman.

And if the survey above is any indication, it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Just a visual reminder that IU beat MSU, doing what we could not do (in year 7)...

But that we did do in year 1, 3, 4, and 5.

Kelly should have parted ways with BVG this summer, and he may have ended his time at ND for not doing so, but the transitive property has never applied in college football.

 

[fightingirish26]

Just a visual reminder that IU beat MSU, doing what we could not do (in year 7)...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins lost a bet with teammate Nate Sudfeld over Indiana... <a href="https://t.co/6JRYiXOwsc">https://t.co/6JRYiXOwsc</a> <a href="https://t.co/niq16YItvK">pic.twitter.com/niq16YItvK</a></p>— John Keim (@john_keim) <a href="https://twitter.com/john_keim/status/783751666281566209">October 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We are IU. We are Hawaii. We are Furman.

And if the survey above is any indication, it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

shouldn't you be rubbing urban meyer's feet or something?

 

[ND NYC]

could we try one play, one series, one quarter with press coverage at the LOS by our corners. one time! that's all I ask.
I don't even care if we get burned on an easy score, I just want our corners to be up there and see what happens.

 

[IrishLax]

could we try one play, one series, one quarter with press coverage at the LOS by our corners. one time! that's all I ask.
I don't even care if we get burned on an easy score, I just want our corners to be up there and see what happens.

Well, we actually did... against Nevada and Duke... didn't work so hot in the latter.

 

[IrishBroker]

could we try one play, one series, one quarter with press coverage at the LOS by our corners. one time! that's all I ask.
I don't even care if we get burned on an easy score, I just want our corners to be up there and see what happens.

We straight up don't have the talent to line up one on one with anyone right now.

Our "best CB" Cole Luke is getting smoked every single game by guys who aren't even on NFL radars. It's laughable.

 

[NDgradstudent]

shouldn't you be rubbing urban meyer's feet or something?

Does Urbie like foot rubs? Somebody should have told Kevin "proudest moment" White about that- maybe then we wouldn't be losing to Duke!

 

[Circa]

Seems we're not the only ones fighting academics.

Paul Johnson: If you don't have Clemson's commitment, how can you expect to beat the Tigers?
“This is not the old ACC,” Johnson said. “Ten, 15, 20 years ago, there might be one ranked team. And now you have six. Every week there’s pretty good teams. People have committed, for whatever reason the other schools have committed to it. To have a good program.”

 

[stlnd01]

We straight up don't have the talent to line up one on one with anyone right now.

Our "best CB" Cole Luke is getting smoked every single game by guys who aren't even on NFL radars. It's laughable.

 

[JT_IRISH]

Out of the 13 players we sent to the NFL this year, 7 were on defense...

 

[phgreek]

could we try one play, one series, one quarter with press coverage at the LOS by our corners. one time! that's all I ask.
I don't even care if we get burned on an easy score, I just want our corners to be up there and see what happens.

You either need to be a better athlete (speed, hips) than the receiver, or you need to be more physical.

I think the ND D backs have shown to be Neither.

You don't have to be the fastest guy on the field, but When you press, you beat the living hell out of the receiver, sometimes completely knocking him on his ass. Every time he puts a hand out to get you off, you inflict pain to hands, fingers, forearms, whatever you can. OR you have superior athleticism, and can pop the receiver once and mirror him.

If you do not play that position with superior athleticism, or hate in your heart, you will suck...it is just that simple.

But you need to know who you are...and develop skills and strategies around that. Press is a mental game too...you need to dictate, and set things up...can't develop that ability if you don't know who you are.

It is clear to me cole luke doesn't know who he is...ie he was never developed correctly to take advantage of his gifts. IMHO, he should be an angry, mean, physical presence who beats the living hell out of receivers...he isn't. Some of the younger guys might be more finesse...remains to be seen...but part of coaching is finding your corner's identity, and then developing his game. What I've seen for years now are guys who aren't comfortable enough with who they are, and so the results are gary grey, cole luke, Russel...guys who flash some skills, but are hugely inconsistent/unreliable.

 

[ickythump1225]

GK - was running Lou Holtz out of town a good idea? Because that is pretty much what you are promoting here.

Le SIGH...Lou WON a national title and was robbed of a second one by the time he left. Lou>>>BK at ND.

 

[stlnd01]

Le SIGH...Lou WON a national title and was robbed of a second one by the time he left. Lou>>>BK at ND.

Yes. But 94, 95, 96 were not exactly his peak. And he was run out of town despite his record from '88 to '93. And we all watched what happened from there.

 

[ickythump1225]

Yes. But 94, 95, 96 were not exactly his peak. And he was run out of town despite his record from '88 to '93. And we all watched what happened from there.

Lou's time was up, he had peaked. It happened. But Lou's tenure will always be better than Kelly's unless Kelly coaches for 3 more years and wins two titles.

 

[Circa]

That is a complete mischaracterization of anything I have ever said on this subject.

I'm assuming you say this because Holtz went 6-5-1, 9-3, and 8-3 in the 3 years prior to his firing.

First of all, Lou Holtz WON a natty and then followed it up 12, 9, 10, 11 win seasons. That proved that his championship season wasn't an outlier/fluke. We have one 10 win season under BK since 2012 so the 2012 seasons is clearly the outlier.

In 1994, 3/5 losses were to top 10 teams and the other two were to a ranked team and @ a rival who was good at the time (BC).

In 1995, we lost to two top 10 teams but we also had a two top 10 wins. Northwestern was a bad loss.

In 1996, we beat a top 10 team and lost to a top 10 team and also @USC. We did lose to Air Force which was obviously a bad loss.

So if I was around at the time my opinion would have been Lou Holtz looks like he might be slowing down so we need to keep an eye on him the next 2 seasons. If we had 3-4 losses each of the next two seasons I would have said let's move on.

But there is no way I would have fired my championship winning head coach who took us to a bunch of other BCS type bowl games.

This might come off as the wrong way of stating my thoughts, kids these days think everything happens overnight and get insulted when they hear their wrong. Feeling insulted about being wrong is the problem. Everyone's wrong now and again and It turns kids into adults daily.

 

[NDRock]

Lou's time was up, he had peaked. It happened. But Lou's tenure will always be better than Kelly's unless Kelly coaches for 3 more years and wins two titles.

Lou was great and I'm glad to have been able to witness those years. Imagine if we had the internet during Lou's time. The amount of bitching that would have been done. We had the #1 recruiting class for four straight years from 87-90 and only won one championship. Good times, either way.

 

[irishff1014]

Anyone seen the scout video about Kelly and the defensive coordinator? Looks to be a paid.

 

[stlnd01]

Lou's time was up, he had peaked. It happened. But Lou's tenure will always be better than Kelly's unless Kelly coaches for 3 more years and wins two titles.

I don't think anyone here is arguing BK is Lou's equal. But that doesn't mean we should run Kelly off just because he's not Lou. If anything, running off Lou serves as a cautionary tale of what can happen when you take a good coach for granted.