Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Rocket 94]

I don't think anyone here is arguing BK is Lou's equal. But that doesn't mean we should run Kelly off just because he's not Lou. If anything, running off Lou serves as a cautionary tale of what can happen when you take a good coach for granted.

I think what needs to happen for Kelly now is tangible progress toward being able to compete and win New Year's Six games and playoff games. If that is not happening then Kelly needs to be replaced. The next year needs to be a mission to determine how can we compete and win these type games. Does culture need to change? Strength and conditioning need an upgrade? Kelly better be looking at all aspects of this program.

 

[BGIF]

I don't think anyone here is arguing BK is Lou's equal. But that doesn't mean we should run Kelly off just because he's not Lou. If anything, running off Lou serves as a cautionary tale of what can happen when you take a good coach for granted.

Not the first time.

Leahy deja vu.

 

[LoveThee]

BK bolts, Strong is fired at UT, ND gives him a go. We stay patient, and in year 5 win the natty

 

[philipm31]

Le SIGH...Lou WON a national title and was robbed of a second one by the time he left. Lou>>>BK at ND.

THIS....and it is not even close.

 

[philipm31]

I think what needs to happen for Kelly now is tangible progress toward being able to compete and win New Year's Six games and playoff games. If that is not happening then Kelly needs to be replaced. The next year needs to be a mission to determine how can we compete and win these type games. Does culture need to change? Strength and conditioning need an upgrade? Kelly better be looking at all aspects of this program.

The rest of this season is when we need to see tangible progress. Waiting another 20+ games is silly. You know what you have by year seven. We are not getting better and not getting any closer to another shot at the National Title under Kelly.

That much is clearly obvious. If he wants to coach at ND next year, then he honestly needs to win every game the rest of the way, even Stanford. If he loses by 2 TDs to USC or STAN, then it is obvious ND needs a new captain.

 

[irishtrain]

My whole bag of thoughts have changed on our team. Still love 'em still pull like %$#@ for them but I finally understand the deal. Kelly is still in my mind a great coach but even a great coach cant win without the horses on defense. His offense for every year but Teo's great team has simply tried to survive by scoring more points. You will never have a good like the great teams of the past without the right guys on defense. Last years defense was held together by 2 guys and when they played a top tier team they got whipped because the other teams had 6 plus guys like that on their defense. So Notre Dame tries to survive with a glitzy offense and smoking mirrors on defense--it simply cant work. There is no good answer because the guys required to play defense in todays college football world (tcfw) simply don't want to come to Notre Dame because of the requirements in the education process. Of course one of you fellows will say what about Smith or Day last year- they were an anomaly not the norm. Check out what the coach at Ga Tech just said----he cant get 'em in either, and their defense is almost as bad as ours. Next year all these guys who are getting a chance to play this year will do very well for their ability and they 'may' be a 8/10 game win team next year but they will loose to the strong teams that have 6 plus pros type guys on their defense because Notre Dame cant out score those teams. I'd like to see the guys maybe drop to a lower level of competition--join the MAC (or like conference)--we'd fit right in. Remember there is a 13 $billion (yeah that's billion) endowment so what they lose from TV revenue wont even matter. But let it be finally said by someone 'they cant do it anymore the way they want to' and Notre Dame is not about to change their stance on the education process-- and I guess nor should they. ONE FINAL THOUGHT--I played golf a few years ago behind 2 fathers and their sons all ND grads not a simple subway alum like myself and we discussed this very issue--their answer was simple 'maintain the standards and compete for a title once every 10 years' so we should be ready for a little excitement in 2022.

 

[Bishop2b5]

How was ND so successful in the past with the stringent academic standards for athletes, or were the standards lower in the 60's & 70's?

 

[Irish Insanity]

How was ND so successful in the past with the stringent academic standards for athletes, or were the standards lower in the 60's & 70's?

Kids were smarter.

 

[Irish#1]

Not the first time.

Leahy deja vu.

Leahy may have been the best coach of them all including Rockne.

 

[CrystalHead]

THIS....and it is not even close.

Totally agree. Lou was better in just about every aspect of the game. Where he blows Kelly away is in game time coaching. You didn't see Lou make the mistakes Kelly makes with in game decisions (Texas, Duke and Stanford last year). He was better in recruiting, motivating and game planning in all aspects of the game. I'm not bashing Kelly but comparing him to Lou IMO is quite humorous to me.

 

[ThePiombino]

My whole bag of thoughts have changed on our team. Still love 'em still pull like %$#@ for them but I finally understand the deal. Kelly is still in my mind a great coach but even a great coach cant win without the horses on defense. His offense for every year but Teo's great team has simply tried to survive by scoring more points. You will never have a good like the great teams of the past without the right guys on defense. Last years defense was held together by 2 guys and when they played a top tier team they got whipped because the other teams had 6 plus guys like that on their defense. So Notre Dame tries to survive with a glitzy offense and smoking mirrors on defense--it simply cant work. There is no good answer because the guys required to play defense in todays college football world (tcfw) simply don't want to come to Notre Dame because of the requirements in the education process. Of course one of you fellows will say what about Smith or Day last year- they were an anomaly not the norm. Check out what the coach at Ga Tech just said----he cant get 'em in either, and their defense is almost as bad as ours. Next year all these guys who are getting a chance to play this year will do very well for their ability and they 'may' be a 8/10 game win team next year but they will loose to the strong teams that have 6 plus pros type guys on their defense because Notre Dame cant out score those teams. I'd like to see the guys maybe drop to a lower level of competition--join the MAC (or like conference)--we'd fit right in. Remember there is a 13 $billion (yeah that's billion) endowment so what they lose from TV revenue wont even matter. But let it be finally said by someone 'they cant do it anymore the way they want to' and Notre Dame is not about to change their stance on the education process-- and I guess nor should they. ONE FINAL THOUGHT--I played golf a few years ago behind 2 fathers and their sons all ND grads not a simple subway alum like myself and we discussed this very issue--their answer was simple 'maintain the standards and compete for a title once every 10 years' so we should be ready for a little excitement in 2022.

What the hell are smoking mirrors and where can I find some?!

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Lou Holtz
1986 - 5-6
87 - 8-4
88 - 12-0 Fiesta Bowl Win/National Champs
89 - 12-1 Orange Bowl Win
90 - 9-3
91 - 10-3 Sugar Bowl Win
92 - 10-1-1 Cotton Bowl Win
93 - 11-1 Cotton Bowl Win
94 - 6-5-1
95 - 9-3
96 - 8-3

Brian Kelly
2010 - 8-5
11 - 8-5
12 - 12-1
13 - 9-4
14 - 8-5
15 - 10-3
16 - Currently 2-3

Not seeing the comparison.

 

[kmoose]

What the hell are smoking mirrors and where can I find some?!

You can get them at the "Intensive Purposes" store.

People don't read like they used to, so they only hear these phrases; and sometimes hear them wrong.

 

[kmoose]

How was ND so successful in the past with the stringent academic standards for athletes, or were the standards lower in the 60's & 70's?

Everyone wanted to play for ND in the 60s and 70s. They were constantly on TV, and they could afford to provide scholarships for guys who never even dressed. So they got their pick, pretty much, of the smartest athletes in the country.

 

[greenleaffootball]

I don't think anyone here is arguing BK is Lou's equal. But that doesn't mean we should run Kelly off just because he's not Lou. If anything, running off Lou serves as a cautionary tale of what can happen when you take a good coach for granted.

I'm becoming less and less convinced Kelly is a good coach quite honestly.

 

[greenleaffootball]

Lou Holtz
1986 - 5-6
87 - 8-4
88 - 12-0 Fiesta Bowl Win/National Champs
89 - 12-1 Orange Bowl Win
90 - 9-3
91 - 10-3 Sugar Bowl Win
92 - 10-1-1 Cotton Bowl Win
93 - 11-1 Cotton Bowl Win
94 - 6-5-1
95 - 9-3
96 - 8-3

Brian Kelly
2010 - 8-5
11 - 8-5
12 - 12-1
13 - 9-4
14 - 8-5
15 - 10-3
16 - Currently 2-3

Not seeing the comparison.

Holtz was playing much tougher schedules as well. 1986-1992 we always had one of the best 5-10 schedules in the country.

 

[stlnd01]

How was ND so successful in the past with the stringent academic standards for athletes, or were the standards lower in the 60's & 70's?

There were a lot fewer programs that were nationally competitive. Recruiting wasn't nearly as intense. No scholarship limits. Better talent/demographics in the Midwest (relative to the South or West) than there are today. All that helped us vs. many other programs.
Also, I'm not sure if this was an issue, but Notre Dame was not as highly-regarded academically back then as it is today. The gap between athletes and "regular" students was probably less. Not sure if that mattered re:academic standards, but it may have.

 

[greenleaffootball]

The rest of this season is when we need to see tangible progress. Waiting another 20+ games is silly. You know what you have by year seven. We are not getting better and not getting any closer to another shot at the National Title under Kelly.

That much is clearly obvious. If he wants to coach at ND next year, then he honestly needs to win every game the rest of the way, even Stanford. If he loses by 2 TDs to USC or STAN, then it is obvious ND needs a new captain.

Agreed.

 

[greenleaffootball]

BK= Mr. Excuses

2010, 2011= Weis' fault (somehow Weis doesn't get any credit for 2012 though even though much of the defense was recruited by him)
2013= Golson suspension
2014= Defensive injuries, also Golsen's slump
2016 start= BVG's fault
If things don't improve in 2016= Whose fault now?

 

[BabyIrish]

BK= Mr. Excuses

2010, 2011= Weis' fault (somehow Weis doesn't get any credit for 2012 though even though much of the defense was recruited by him)
2013= Golson suspension
2014= Defensive injuries, also Golsen's slump
2016 start= BVG's fault
If things don't improve in 2016= Whose fault now?

When did BK ever get up and blame Weis or Golson for his failures?

 

[greenleaffootball]

When did BK ever get up and blame Weis or Golson for his failures?

I was referring more to the excuses fans make for BK.

 

[GowerND11]

There were a lot fewer programs that were nationally competitive. Recruiting wasn't nearly as intense. No scholarship limits. Better talent/demographics in the Midwest (relative to the South or West) than there are today. All that helped us vs. many other programs.
Also, I'm not sure if this was an issue, but Notre Dame was not as highly-regarded academically back then as it is today. The gap between athletes and "regular" students was probably less. Not sure if that mattered re:academic standards, but it may have.

I'd say this is accurate. Notre Dame was really the only national brand at the time. On top of that, (almost) every football player that attended a Catholic school, or was Catholic, wanted to attend Notre Dame. My grandmother (graduated high school in '56) told me that on every Friday they had to sing the fight song at the end of the day. The nuns required it in Pennsylvania!

 

[Redbar]

You can get them at the "Intensive Purposes" store.

People don't read like they used to, so they only hear these phrases; and sometimes hear them wrong.

My buddy started working there, really excited, says he gets lots of French benefits.

 

[RDU Irish]

Heard a great Lou quote today "I was really loyal to my assistants until I got fired from my first head coaching job"

 

[Free Manera]

My buddy started working there, really excited, says he gets lots of French benefits.

You should of applied! Or you could just care less?

 

[greenleaffootball]

I don't want Kelly to leave because I think he's a good coach and, like Sticky said, Lord knows who we'd wind up with.
But the biggest problem would be perception that you just can't win here. Elite program coaches almost never make lateral moves. Which this, at best, would be. (I'd argue ND is a better job, given the national profile, but I can see the case the LSU is equal). And this wouldn't be about the money. This would be a successful coach, highly respected by his peers, walking away from the top-quality program he's built here for a school with far fewer self-imposed handcuffs. Think of the message that sends to all the other elite coaches we'd like to hire. Not good.

Anybody who still thinks Kelly is a good coach is a moron.

A good coach (not a great coach) would be 5-0 vs this awful scuedule so far. A mediocre coach would be 4-1 vs it.

 

[WestCoast]

You should of applied! Or you could just care less?

He was suppose to apply, but the bus he use to take broke down. Anyways, he is infamous for his principals and didn't want to take a taxi their. Its unfortunate, but he had to forego the chance.

 

[NDRock]

Anybody who still thinks Kelly is a good coach is a moron.

A good coach (not a great coach) would be 5-0 vs this awful scuedule so far. A mediocre coach would be 4-1 vs it.

So, he's a below mediocre coach? There's definitely a moron in this scenario.

 

[greenleaffootball]

So, he's a below mediocre coach? There's definitely a moron in this scenario.

A 57-26 record is subpar by ND standards if you believe it or not.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Anybody who still thinks Kelly is a good coach is a moron.

A good coach (not a great coach) would be 5-0 vs this awful scuedule so far. A mediocre coach would be 4-1 vs it.

A moron makes blanket statements and claims facts without considering the entire picture. Kelly should be held accountable for his performance and his poor choice in defensive coordinators but he's still a very good coach when looking at the numbers.