Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[stlnd01]

I don't know. On the list of hurdles between Notre Dame and the playoffs, Longo seems like he's not in the top ten.

 

[Irish Graham]

Yes ... those were the days before the ACC compromise and when ND used to go to play Mich and Mich State - used to say "ND going for yet ANOTHER Michigan Double". Those days might just be gone.

 

[MNIrishman]

1) How is this post at all responsive? You said our defense looks like it could be competent the rest of the year and I say you are basing that on one half of football. Then you go off on how BK isn't going anywhere...What does that have to do with anything?

2) This is why I honestly don't respect your football knowledge. I have nothing against you personally and agree with a lot of what you say in non-football threads but dude, what are you even talking about with Jim Tressel? Are you trolling right now?

You don't fire a coach for ONE 8-4 season. Everyone knows that. Jim Tressel went

10-2
12-1
11-2
10-3
11-2
12-1

in the years after the 8-4 season. They went to a BCS bowl every single year. They went to the Natty twice. He won 3 BCS games.

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 4 times and will do so again this year. What are you even talking about?

Wait, I seem to recall some funny business associated with Jim Tressel before he rode off into the sunset...couldn't have contributed to a competitive advantage, right?

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I have always wondered if the academic rigor side of ND prevents adequate rest and recovery for football players. I would love some anecdotal evidence.

This is a huge part of the problem. I've researched Longos program a bit. Nothing earth shattering, but solid. A lot of Olympic variations and speed lifts using accommodating resistance in the form of chains. Stress is stress. The body doesn't differentiate between physical or psychological stress. Once depleted, you are overreached and at greater risk for injury. Factor in incomplete nutrition, poor hydration, and lack of sleep and bad things happen. The workload of student athletes at ND is certainly a huge factor.
Another issue is the style of play that Kelly prefers. Our players do not lack the requisite strength to be physical. Scheme is a huge part of the inability to move people off the ball. Linemen would certainly prefer to fire out and drive people off the ball run blocking than play laterally and pass block.

I think many really do not understand what actually happens in a college S and C program and how at the mercy of the HC these programs actually are.

 

[Wild Bill]

Maybe juice is less prevalent at ND than it is at let's say...stanford.

 

[irishog77]

I think Kelly has really struggled with player development. That was supposedly his strong suit when he was hired, but it seems to be rare that a player steps in in year 3 or 4 and becomes a dominant player, much less a solid contributor. The vast majority of players in Kelly's tenure seem to be contributors by the start of their second year, or not at all. Which makes me wonder if those guys were simply better athletes/players than the others when they showed up on campus.

CJ Prosise would be an exception. But even with him and his speed and explosiveness, I wonder how much of his career was due to Brian Kelly, or due to God-given talent and ability. Sure, guys like Will Fuller got better as their careers progressed at ND, but 3-star Will was contributing as a true FR. Natural progression should be occurring for every 18 year old college football player. The pattern for BK looks like it may be that the guys who have "it" arrive to the school and can contribute early, while the guys who don't, never do. Can anybody think of anybody other than Prosise that was able to become a great (or even good) player late in their career under BK?

Maybe I'm wrong on this.

 

[phgreek]

I have always wondered if the academic rigor side of ND prevents adequate rest and recovery for football players. I would love some anecdotal evidence.

same here...all the serious folks stress the hell out of the sleep cycle / recovery...etc. You'd certainly think it could be an issue.

 

[jspags10pg]

I think Kelly has really struggled with player development. That was supposedly his strong suit when he was hired, but it seems to be rare that a player steps in in year 3 or 4 and becomes a dominant player, much less a solid contributor. The vast majority of players in Kelly's tenure seem to be contributors by the start of their second year, or not at all. Which makes me wonder if those guys were simply better athletes/players than the others when they showed up on campus.

CJ Prosise would be an exception. But even with him and his speed and explosiveness, I wonder how much of his career was due to Brian Kelly, or due to God-given talent and ability. Sure, guys like Will Fuller got better as their careers progressed at ND, but 3-star Will was contributing as a true FR. Natural progression should be occurring for every 18 year old college football player. The pattern for BK looks like it may be that the guys who have "it" arrive to the school and can contribute early, while the guys who don't, never do. Can anybody think of anybody other than Prosise that was able to become a great (or even good) player late in their career under BK?

Maybe I'm wrong on this.

You mean like guys who have went from a nobody to a star? That doesn't happen much anywhere but as far as guys who just improve over the course of their careers? I'd say guys like Harrison Smith, Manti, Zack Martin, Eifert, Ronnie Stanley, Chris Brown, TJ Jones, Theo Riddick, Jonas Gray, Jarron Jones, Daniel Cage, Troy Niklas, even Jaylon definitely improved. That's just off the top of my head...bolded guys are ones that went from nobodies to stars. Throw Kizer in that group too. I'm sure I forgot plenty.

I'm not a huge Kelly supporter and think his teams lack toughness but he can develop talent. Think he's more of a second tier coach and not in that elite group.

 

[irishog77]

You mean like guys who have went from a nobody to a star? That doesn't happen much anywhere but as far as guys who just improve over the course of their careers? I'd say guys like Harrison Smith, Manti, Zack Martin, Eifert, Ronnie Stanley, Chris Brown, TJ Jones, Theo Riddick, Jonas Gray, Jarron Jones, Daniel Cage, Troy Niklas, even Jaylon definitely improved. That's just off the top of my head...bolded guys are ones that went from nobodies to stars. Throw Kizer in that group too. I'm sure I forgot plenty.

I'm not a huge Kelly supporter and think his teams lack toughness but he can develop talent. Think he's more of a second tier coach and not in that elite group.

Yes, but I think all those guys were contributing by the beginning of their 2nd year in the program. Which leads me to believe that basically all those guys would probably be contributing (all things being equal) at most other programs, had they gone there. I think those guys may have shown up ND simply better/more athletic/more polished than other players. And I don't think that is necessarily a feather in the cap for player development.

I'm bewildered that it seems extremely rare for somebody like a redshirt JR to step in along the D-line or secondary and be a solid contributor. To me, that speaks more on player development than a guy that was good enough to play basically when he arrived on campus, lacking (or with a small amount of) major college coaching, training, and development.

 

[stlnd01]

I'm bewildered that it seems extremely rare for somebody like a redshirt JR to step in along the D-line or secondary and be a solid contributor. To me, that speaks more on player development than a guy that was good enough to play basically when he arrived on campus, lacking (or with a small amount of) major college coaching, training, and development.

I wouldn't sleep on Jay Hayes. Also: Louis Nix? Okwara and Kona Schwenke also made leaps late, thinking of defensive front seven players.
A little confused what you're looking for here. Guys who go from zero to 60 (or at least 45) their junior year? How often does that happen anywhere, aside from on the offensive line maybe where you stockpile guys to develop.
Kelly plays his freshmen - sometimes before they're ready - and that means most are contributing early if they show any potential of contributing ever. He doesn't really have the depth to do otherwise, for various reasons. I agree there sometimes are guys like Trumbetti who seem to regress. But also guys like Fuller who get better each year.

 

[jspags10pg]

Yes, but I think all those guys were contributing by the beginning of their 2nd year in the program. Which leads me to believe that basically all those guys would probably be contributing (all things being equal) at most other programs, had they gone there. I think those guys may have shown up ND simply better/more athletic/more polished than other players. And I don't think that is necessarily a feather in the cap for player development.

I'm bewildered that it seems extremely rare for somebody like a redshirt JR to step in along the D-line or secondary and be a solid contributor. To me, that speaks more on player development than a guy that was good enough to play basically when he arrived on campus, lacking (or with a small amount of) major college coaching, training, and development.

I get what you're saying but it's extremely rare for someone to go from non-contributor to star (except at QB where you usually only play one). Every other position will get rotation and the players with potential will play at least a little bit. My best ones for Kelly are Harrison and Eifert. They were non-factors or just bad and they became stars in both college and the NFL under BK. Or a guy like Nix. He came in and wasn't good/out of shape and turned into an AA level NG. Even Zeke Motta became a good player after doing nothing for awhile. Jarrett Grace was also playing well before his leg disintegrated and I think that was his junior year and he didn't do much his previous two years. Troy Niklas was getting better and better. Nyles Morgan and James O could also belong in that category.

It's seems kind of unfair to BK to say that anyone he has developed could have also been developed elsewhere to the same extent. Coaches like Hoke and James Franklin, just to name a couple, have wasted guys who were very talented but never developed or were not utilized well the way they should have.

 

[kmoose]

I have always wondered if the academic rigor side of ND prevents adequate rest and recovery for football players. I would love some anecdotal evidence.

I don't think it has that much of an effect. When I was in the Navy and we would go on deployment, we often worked 12 hours on/12 hours off for 5 or 6 months. We might get a total of 10-12 days off in that period. And we tended to party pretty hard, during our time off. We were in very good shape, but not like these guys playing D-IA football. I'm sure it doesn't help. But I doubt it makes a noticeable difference, either.

 

[kmoose]

So about .01% of the people in the country watched the game. I don't think 1 out of 10,000 people watching a game makes it a big game.

So how many people have to tune in before you consider it a big game?

 

[ACamp1900]

FYI, there's a calculator built into your phone.

Knowing hog...... I doubt it.

 

[BobbyMac]

You didn't hear it from me but...

I just heard from a speed dial booster that Team Kelly has reached out to LSU.

Also was told that Gary Patterson told ND he'd take the job in Dec. '09 but couldn't do what CBK ended up doing when he was also undefeated and #3 going into the Fiesta Bowl vs. Boise and had a shot to win the NC if Florida beat Bama.

That's crazy sh!t.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Reached out for a defensive coordinator? Do tell.

 

[BobbyMac]

Reached out for a defensive coordinator? Do tell.

Not exactly the sorta reaching that was going on my fellow Regionite.

 

[gkIrish]

Not exactly the sorta reaching that was going on my fellow Regionite.

Please god

 

[IrishLion]

Well that is interesting.

I could root for LSU with BK there. Which I now realize upon typing my thoughts is completely f*cked up.

 

[Irish Insanity]

And I was told in one for these threads that he wouldn't leave for another job......

 

[NDRock]

Well that is interesting.

I could root for LSU with BK there. Which I now realize upon typing my thoughts is completely f*cked up.

I think Kelly would do really well in the SEC with the type of offense he likes. I personally hope the next guy skews towards a power type offense and utilizes one of our best positions we can recruit (TE). I'm over having an offense that puts up a lot of yards but struggles in short yardage/redzone.

 

[Irish YJ]

You didn't hear it from me but...

I just heard from a speed dial booster that Team Kelly has reached out to LSU.

Also was told that Gary Patterson told ND he'd take the job in Dec. '09 but couldn't do what CBK ended up doing when he was also undefeated and #3 going into the Fiesta Bowl vs. Boise and had a shot to win the NC if Florida beat Bama.

That's crazy sh!t.

He just likes the thought of his gear camouflaging his face...

 

[irishff1014]

His offense would be very good but could his defense?

 

[Booslum31]

I think Kelly would do really well in the SEC with the type of offense he likes. I personally hope the next guy skews towards a power type offense and utilizes one of our best positions we can recruit (TE). I'm over having an offense that puts up a lot of yards but struggles in short yardage/redzone.

Yeah we could do better in short yardage...but i like the points we are putting up. I think we are averaging 42ish per game. That should be enough...even in these crazy days of offense. D-UP!!!

 

[gkIrish]

And I was told in one for these threads that he wouldn't leave for another job......

In before a BK apologist drops a "How can you blame him?"

 

[NDRock]

His offense would be very good but could his defense?

At LSU? Heck yeah. Just let their DC do his thing, recruit the studs they've been recruiting for the past 15 years and all would be good.

 

[irishff1014]

At LSU? Heck yeah. Just let their DC do his thing, recruit the studs they've been recruiting for the past 15 years and all would be good.

I completely forgot that his deal was still in play my bad.

 

[NDRock]

I completely forgot that his deal was still in play my bad.

Yeah, I was hoping for a Kelly/Aranda combo, just didn't think it might be at LSU.

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah, I was hoping for a Kelly/Aranda combo, just didn't think it might be at LSU.

I am not the biggest supporter of Kelly right now but is would be interesting to see what Jack could come up with.

 

[stlnd01]

I am not the biggest supporter of Kelly right now but is would be interesting to see what Jack could come up with.

If it's a leverage/contract play, Kelly's timing is not the best.
But of course, if it's a leverage/timing play to get ND to break out the check book for an elite DC, I'd say well played, sir.