Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[NDgradstudent]

Depends what part of the team you are talking about. Offense certainly doesnt look to be regressing....I'd say it's maybe the most dangerous it's ever been in fact.

Let's wait until we play a good defense before we say that.

 

[BeauBenken]

I was just using PJ Fleck as an example. But what did SoIll say? Or where can I find his post.

He asked that if anyone was interested to PM him. I did, but as it's not really my info to share, I'll let him tell you himself.

 

[gkIrish]

Depends what part of the team you are talking about. Offense certainly doesnt look to be regressing....I'd say it's maybe the most dangerous it's ever been in fact.

So scrap the whole damn thing because 1 thing needs fixed (defense)?

It's about judgment, or lack thereof. He stuck with BVG way too long. He permitted Joe Schmidt to start over a STUD in Nyles Morgan. He didn't see that Kizer >>>> Zaire, which cost us a game. I could go on. You can't have a coach who completely whiffs on obvious decisions like that.

I mean seriously, what about BVG last year gave anyone any confidence that he was the right guy. We could be 5-0 right now had it not been for BK failing to make a move.

 

[kmoose]

It's not about an "ultra-elite" coach. PJ Fleck is not an elite coach right now but certainly has the potential to be one given the resources and prestige of ND.

This is all about the fact that Kelly peaked and is regressing. We have had some completely unacceptable losses the last 3 seasons and rare wins against elite competition. We are never going to be a championship team with him at the helm and we probably won't be a top 10 team anytime soon going forward.

Therefore, it's time to move on. You don't have to get an elite coach. You get a coach with potential and take a risk. I'd rather take a risk on a guy than stick with a guy that we know won't get to where we want to be.

We just won 10 games last year. VanGorder is now gone, and the defense finally looks like it has the chance to be a competent unit.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What about keeping the whole thing the same, and adding Charlie Strong as Defensive Coordinator?

If you want to make a change, consider Mike Elston as full time recruiting coordinator, and Hudson as linebacker coach, assistant DC.

 

[zelezo vlk]

What about keeping the whole thing the same, and adding Charlie Strong as Defensive Coordinator?

If you want to make a change, consider Mike Elston as full time recruiting coordinator, and Hudson as linebacker coach, assistant DC.

I'm not sure that Coach Strong would take a DC job. Surely somebody would be willing to give him a job, or do you think he'd just want to bide his time until the right opening presented itself?

 

[gkIrish]

We just won 10 games last year. VanGorder is now gone, and the defense finally looks like it has the chance to be a competent unit.

It amazes me how much people are investing in one half of football. The defense is going to be putrid going forward. I'll bet all my vbucks we give up 30+ points per game the rest of the way.

 

[gkIrish]

What about keeping the whole thing the same, and adding Charlie Strong as Defensive Coordinator?

If you want to make a change, consider Mike Elston as full time recruiting coordinator, and Hudson as linebacker coach, assistant DC.

I'm not sure that Coach Strong would take a DC job. Surely somebody would be willing to give him a job, or do you think he'd just want to bide his time until the right opening presented itself?

I don't see Strong as a smart option. He will either do poorly or do well and be gone after 1 year. Our team will not be good enough next year (especially if Kizer leaves) to justify it.

Also I think he would rather be the HC at a school like Houston (assuming Herman leaves) than be a DC somewhere.

 

[NDdomer2]

It's about judgment, or lack thereof. He stuck with BVG way too long. He permitted Joe Schmidt to start over a STUD in Nyles Morgan. He didn't see that Kizer >>>> Zaire, which cost us a game. I could go on. You can't have a coach who completely whiffs on obvious decisions like that.

I mean seriously, what about BVG last year gave anyone any confidence that he was the right guy. We could be 5-0 right now had it not been for BK failing to make a move.

I don't recall you acting this upset that BVG wasnt fired in the offseason, in fact next to no one was calling for that.

So so obvious, we as fans ALSO missed it?

 

[RDU Irish]

I think gK makes some good arguments. BK definitely shit the bed on keeping BVG around - and the QB carousel was just stupid. I just do not see those as critical errors at this point. If he is sitting down with Swarbrick and oblivious to these mistakes or falling into the same patterns that created them, then I have my hand on the bat phone. If he is owning it and growing from it - he has a few years that are highly dependent on a good DC hire.

 

[NDdomer2]

Let's wait until we play a good defense before we say that.

Why wait, we have ultra-elite coaches waiting at Jack's doorstep to be hired now!

 

[gkIrish]

I don't recall you acting this upset that BVG wasnt fired in the offseason, in fact next to no one was calling for that.

So so obvious, we as fans ALSO missed it?

Um, I absolutely was. You are 100% wrong on that. And there were many people who felt the same way. There are posts from the 2014 season wondering if he should be fired. Look in the BVG thread.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

It amazes me how much people are investing in one half of football. The defense is going to be putrid going forward. I'll bet all my vbucks we give up 30+ points per game the rest of the way.

I'm with you. I didn't see our defense take anything away from Syracuse, we simply played at an average level and we were fortunate the QB isn't that accurate and the WRs had some drops.

Quite frankly, this is a bad defense but hopefully they continue to get better. If they do, we have a chance at 7+ wins.

If our defense doesn't take a step forward, we need our offense to routinely put up 50+ which will not happen with jet sweeps at the goal line.

 

[RDU Irish]

Seriously though, BVG can pack his bags tonight. Laziest recruiter in the midwest and has 300 LB guys in coverage on the reg. Fucking idiot.

JFC - you don't even have to look hard to find BVG bashing this time last year.

 

[NDdomer2]

Um, I absolutely was. You are 100% wrong on that. And there were many people who felt the same way. There are posts from the 2014 season wondering if he should be fired. Look in the BVG thread.

I remember a lot of pissed off fans questioning him. But i don't recall people flat out demanding him being fired. or that Kelly was an idiot for keeping him. I'll gladly be wrong, but the fire BVG shit went viral week 1 this year.

But if you were certain he was the problem this offseason, then well done I guess. But i think about everyone was talking about being a couple plays/injuries away from the playoffs, and hoped improvement play at MLB with Schmidt leaving.

 

[kmoose]

It amazes me how much people are investing in one half of football. The defense is going to be putrid going forward. I'll bet all my vbucks we give up 30+ points per game the rest of the way.

It amazes me how short sighted so many people are. Brian Kelly is NOT getting fired in the middle of the season. BOOK that. Even if he does, you are getting an interim coach until the end of the season. In other words, the defense is going to be what it is, until the end of the season, no matter what. You aren't hiring a Coordinator or Head Coach in the middle of the season. So what we have is what we have. For the rest of the year. So talking about this now is nothing more than pi$$ing and moaning. And I think we've seen enough of that, already, in this not even half over season?

For the record.......... Jim Tressel took Ohio State to a 14-0 record and the NC in his third year. Two years later, Ohio State finished the season 8-4. I guess Ohio State would have been better of 'revisiting" Jim Tressel, after he regressed, in 2004.

 

[gkIrish]

I remember a lot of pissed off fans questioning him. But i don't recall people flat out demanding him being fired. or that Kelly was an idiot for keeping him. I'll gladly be wrong, but the fire BVG shit went viral week 1 this year.

But if you were certain he was the problem this offseason, then well done I guess. But i think about everyone was talking about being a couple plays/injuries away from the playoffs, and hoped improvement play at MLB with Schmidt leaving.

JS has graduated. Our D should see improvement on that alone.

As far as BVG, send him packing

JOE SCHMIDT was a bust last year. Not ALL our players. I don't think I said a bad word about any other player last year.

BRIAN VAN GORDER sucks. Not all of our coaches suck. I don't think I've said a bad word about any coaches other than BVG and BK (and BK doesn't "suck").

The issue is that you take a slight against ANYONE associated with the program as some heinous crime that you feel obligated to defend against. As soon as you stop doing that, for the sake of doing it, you will be a better poster IMO.

I briefly looked through the BVG Fired thread for evidence and these posts are from February 2016. So well before the season started. Many more posts wondering if we should move on all the way back to 2014.

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm with you. I didn't see our defense take anything away from Syracuse, we simply played at an average level and we were fortunate the QB isn't that accurate and the WRs had some drops.

Quite frankly, this is a bad defense but hopefully they continue to get better. If they do, we have a chance at 7+ wins.

If our defense doesn't take a step forward, we need our offense to routinely put up 50+ which will not happen with jet sweeps at the goal line.

Offense is bordering on elite and getting better as the season progresses. Defense doesn't have to be very good. Just look around CFB and see how many teams are putting up 40+ points. In the Top 25 matchups last week there were 10 teams that scored more than 40 (including Iowa State, South Alabama and Oklahoma who were not ranked). I think our offense should have the expectation of scoring 40+ each week at this point.

MOST COLLEGE QBs ARE NOT THAT ACCURATE. They all make mistakes! Watching non-ND games just makes me appreciate it that much more. It shows how good Kizer is that we have so quickly come to expect so much more out of him.

 

[gkIrish]

It amazes me how short sighted so many people are. Brian Kelly is NOT getting fired in the middle of the season. BOOK that. Even if he does, you are getting an interim coach until the end of the season. In other words, the defense is going to be what it is, until the end of the season, no matter what. You aren't hiring a Coordinator or Head Coach in the middle of the season. So what we have is what we have. For the rest of the year. So talking about this now is nothing more than pi$$ing and moaning. And I think we've seen enough of that, already, in this not even half over season?

For the record.......... Jim Tressel took Ohio State to a 14-0 record and the NC in his third year. Two years later, Ohio State finished the season 8-4. I guess Ohio State would have been better of 'revisiting" Jim Tressel, after he regressed, in 2004.

1) How is this post at all responsive? You said our defense looks like it could be competent the rest of the year and I say you are basing that on one half of football. Then you go off on how BK isn't going anywhere...What does that have to do with anything?

2) This is why I honestly don't respect your football knowledge. I have nothing against you personally and agree with a lot of what you say in non-football threads but dude, what are you even talking about with Jim Tressel? Are you trolling right now?

You don't fire a coach for ONE 8-4 season. Everyone knows that. Jim Tressel went

10-2
12-1
11-2
10-3
11-2
12-1

in the years after the 8-4 season. They went to a BCS bowl every single year. They went to the Natty twice. He won 3 BCS games.

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 4 times and will do so again this year. What are you even talking about?

 

[kmoose]

I'm with you. I didn't see our defense take anything away from Syracuse, we simply played at an average level and we were fortunate the QB isn't that accurate and the WRs had some drops.

Quite frankly, this is a bad defense but hopefully they continue to get better. If they do, we have a chance at 7+ wins.

If our defense doesn't take a step forward, we need our offense to routinely put up 50+ which will not happen with jet sweeps at the goal line.

They did take away the run, for the most part. Syracuse ran the ball 37 times for a 3.4 yards per carry avg. They also significantly limited big plays in the passing game.

Syracuse's receivers:

Etta-Tawo: 7 catches for 134 yards. A long of 72. So aside from the one big play, he had 6 catches for 61 yards. Not great, but not bad considering the guy is the leading receiver in the entire country.

Philips: 6/68, long of 25. So 5/43 on his other catches.

Ishmael: 5/67, long of 36. So 4/31 on his other catches.

Strickland: 5/26, long of 10. 4/16 on his other catches.

Estime: 4/18, long of 10. 3/8 on his other catches.

Riley: 2/36, long of 23. 1/13 on his other catch.

Butler: 2/14, long of 15, so 1/-1 on his other catch.

Now look........ I'm not trying to say that these numbers are good, or even good enough. What I AM saying is that I think these numbers represent a HUGE improvement over the pass defense in the first 4 games. And that was with only one week of practice in this new "scheme/attitude". I think they can continue to play competently, which would mean that we would only need to score in the 30s to win most of the rest of our games. And this team is averaging 39+ points per game.

 

[RDU Irish]

@ NC State
Stanford (15)
bye
Miami (10)
Navy (away)
Army (away)
VA Tech (25)
@ USC

We will know a lot more about Miami by the time we play - they have FSU, UNC and VaTech before us and have played FAU, FAMU and AppSt before beating a decent Ga Tech this weekend. Highest ranked team on our remaining schedule is far from inducing fear.

I think 4-3 is the low water mark here. We should at minimum go 1-2 against Stanford, Miami and Va Tech and 2-2 against USC, NCST, Navy, Army. I have a hard time seeing worse than 5-7 overall for the season and a pretty rough road to get to even 7-5.

Those are pretty damning range of outcomes for this point of the season. Hard to see 6-6 or worse as anything other than a REALLY hot seat for CBK.

 

[ScooterIrish]

1) How is this post at all responsive? You said our defense looks like it could be competent the rest of the year and I say you are basing that on one half of football. Then you go off on how BK isn't going anywhere...What does that have to do with anything?

2) This is why I honestly don't respect your football knowledge. I have nothing against you personally and agree with a lot of what you say in non-football threads but dude, what are you even talking about with Jim Tressel? Are you trolling right now?

You don't fire a coach for ONE 8-4 season. Everyone knows that. Jim Tressel went

10-2
12-1
11-2
10-3
11-2
12-1

in the years after the 8-4 season. They went to a BCS bowl every single year. They went to the Natty twice. He won 3 BCS games.

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 4 times and will do so again this year. What are you even talking about?

Well 2010 and 2011 don't count because he didn't have his QB, so those years don't count....and now that he fired BVG, he should get more time. Come on man....

 

[Irish Insanity]

It's not about an "ultra-elite" coach. PJ Fleck is not an elite coach right now but certainly has the potential to be one given the resources and prestige of ND.

This is all about the fact that Kelly peaked and is regressing. We have had some completely unacceptable losses the last 3 seasons and rare wins against elite competition. We are never going to be a championship team with him at the helm and we probably won't be a top 10 team anytime soon going forward.

Therefore, it's time to move on. You don't have to get an elite coach. You get a coach with potential and take a risk. I'd rather take a risk on a guy than stick with a guy that we know won't get to where we want to be.

Serious dude? We will be a top 10 team under BK. In almost every preseason poll there is.

One of our posters, SoIll, commented about how PJ Fleck would not fit at ND. Just FYI.

He asked that if anyone was interested to PM him. I did, but as it's not really my info to share, I'll let him tell you himself.

I'd be down for a PM SoIll. I'm a PJ and WMU fan.

 

[Irish#1]

They did take away the run, for the most part. Syracuse ran the ball 37 times for a 3.4 yards per carry avg. They also significantly limited big plays in the passing game.

Syracuse's receivers:

Etta-Tawo: 7 catches for 134 yards. A long of 72. So aside from the one big play, he had 6 catches for 61 yards. Not great, but not bad considering the guy is the leading receiver in the entire country.

Philips: 6/68, long of 25. So 5/43 on his other catches.

Ishmael: 5/67, long of 36. So 4/31 on his other catches.

Strickland: 5/26, long of 10. 4/16 on his other catches.

Estime: 4/18, long of 10. 3/8 on his other catches.

Riley: 2/36, long of 23. 1/13 on his other catch.

Butler: 2/14, long of 15, so 1/-1 on his other catch.

Now look........ I'm not trying to say that these numbers are good, or even good enough. What I AM saying is that I think these numbers represent a HUGE improvement over the pass defense in the first 4 games. And that was with only one week of practice in this new "scheme/attitude". I think they can continue to play competently, which would mean that we would only need to score in the 30s to win most of the rest of our games. And this team is averaging 39+ points per game.

Unfortunately you can't remove big plays because they still count. However, I agree with you. Anyone looking for a vast improvement immediately like the idiot announcer doesn't know football. Yet there was a pretty good improvement in the second half as everyone was starting to feel more comfortable. I look for a little more improvement this week.

 

[gkIrish]

Well 2010 and 2011 don't count because he didn't have his QB, so those years don't count....and now that he fired BVG, he should get more time. Come on man....

So we are going to pick and choose which seasons count? 2012 counts even though a good amount of players were not ones that he recruited?

Did he have his own QB in 2013, 2014, and 2016? We lost 5 games in two of those seasons and will likely lose 5 or more again this year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If we are removing years from the equation due to lack of his recruits BVG should've gotten a pass on every fuckin year. Dude never has his own players because he doesn't recruit.

 

[RDU Irish]

GK - was running Lou Holtz out of town a good idea? Because that is pretty much what you are promoting here.

 

[dad4aa]

GK - was running Lou Holtz out of town a good idea? Because that is pretty much what you are promoting here.

^This.

 

[kmoose]

1) How is this post at all responsive? You said our defense looks like it could be competent the rest of the year and I say you are basing that on one half of football. Then you go off on how BK isn't going anywhere...What does that have to do with anything?

I'm not basing it off of one half of football. I'm basing it on the progress that I saw, with only 5 days to work with, from week 4 with BVG, to week 5 without BVG. And the comment about BK not going anywhere was in response to this:

The defense is going to be putrid going forward. I'll bet all my vbucks we give up 30+ points per game the rest of the way.

You act like we can fire BK and bring in an elite coach and turn things around by the end of the season? How will firing BK make one iota of difference in how the defense plays the rest of the season?

2) This is why I honestly don't respect your football knowledge. I have nothing against you personally and agree with a lot of what you say in non-football threads but dude, what are you even talking about with Jim Tressel? Are you trolling right now?

Oh, you don't respect my football knowledge? I has a sad now. Coming from the guy who posted THIS excrement, I'm not sure how I could care any less.

I'm just going to post a bunch of random negative thoughts about BK in this post...

You don't fire a coach for ONE 8-4 season. Everyone knows that. Jim Tressel went

10-2
12-1
11-2
10-3
11-2
12-1

in the years after the 8-4 season. They went to a BCS bowl every single year. They went to the Natty twice. He won 3 BCS games.

No one knew, in that 8-4 year, that Tressel was going to go on the tear that he did. Just like we don't know what is in store for Kelly. I'm not saying that we should have to keep him for another 10 years to find out, but let's at least see what he does, defensively, the rest of the season, and see what kind of DC hire we can make?

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 4 times and will do so again this year. What are you even talking about?

Brian Kelly has gone 8-4 or worse 3 times, not 4. He went 8-5 in each of his first two years(2010, 2011), then he went 12-1 in 2012. He went 9-4 in 2013, 8-5 in 2014, and 10-3 in 2015. Regardless of what you think of my football acumen, I'm going to assume that you are impressed with my superior ability to count to 4?

 

[gkIrish]

GK - was running Lou Holtz out of town a good idea? Because that is pretty much what you are promoting here.

That is a complete mischaracterization of anything I have ever said on this subject.

I'm assuming you say this because Holtz went 6-5-1, 9-3, and 8-3 in the 3 years prior to his firing.

First of all, Lou Holtz WON a natty and then followed it up 12, 9, 10, 11 win seasons. That proved that his championship season wasn't an outlier/fluke. We have one 10 win season under BK since 2012 so the 2012 seasons is clearly the outlier.

In 1994, 3/5 losses were to top 10 teams and the other two were to a ranked team and @ a rival who was good at the time (BC).

In 1995, we lost to two top 10 teams but we also had a two top 10 wins. Northwestern was a bad loss.

In 1996, we beat a top 10 team and lost to a top 10 team and also @USC. We did lose to Air Force which was obviously a bad loss.

So if I was around at the time my opinion would have been Lou Holtz looks like he might be slowing down so we need to keep an eye on him the next 2 seasons. If we had 3-4 losses each of the next two seasons I would have said let's move on.

But there is no way I would have fired my championship winning head coach who took us to a bunch of other BCS type bowl games.