Brady Hoke

[Bogtrotter07]

I am supporting Rocket because he is dead on. Buster you need to look at it sideways:

Davies; Willingham; Weiss.

 

[IrishLax]

I'll add some more fuel for the fire.

Brady Hoke has coached 97 football games in D-1 football and beaten 1 BCS team.

1 win over a BCS school. Now he's coaching at Michigan.

Sure he hasn't had the chance to play many BCS teams, or coach at a BCS school up until now, but that is the very definition of unproven.

And where did all this "Ball State was God awful before Hoke came along" talk come from?

Ball State was 16-18 in Lynch's last three seasons.

They would go 15-31 in Hoke's first four seasons at Ball State.

Maybe he was left with zero talent to work with, but the program declined even more after Hoke took over.

He has two seasons to hang his hat on...his last at Ball State and his last at SDSU. All other seasons he was just another coach.

Ball State's 12-0 run....meh. They beat Navy (so did we that year, so shush), Indiana and a bunch of MAC teams. They collapsed in spectacular fashion against Buffalo in the MAC title game.

I've said it before, Hoke's teams got good at Ball State when Nate Davis started tearing it up at QB.

And SDSU's season last year. Very fine indeed.

However...once again Hoke had one super special offensive star who really tilted the balance in his favor. This man was freshman RB Ronnie Hillman who is likely to blow up over the next couple seasons.

First off, 7 of SDSU's wins were over the absolute worst teams in college football. And they beat Air Force and Navy as their two biggest wins.

They also played Missouri, BYU, TCU, and Utah very close...it's true. But, I claim that Hillman was the difference maker for Hoke's team and kept them in most of these games.

Against all 6 tough opponents last year, Hillman ran for 817 yards at a crazy 7.2 yards per carry.

In those same 6 games, the Aztecs gave up an average of 448 yards per game. In other words, their offense kept them in games.

People keep saying well SDSU beat Navy and we didn't. Well okay...in our apocalyptic loss we only gave up 56 more yards than SDSU did to the Middies. The difference was we couldn't do anything on offense, and SDSU had Hillman run for 228 yards on 28 carries.

Am I trying to make Hoke look bad? Absolutely. But there's quite a lot to go off of here.

I honestly think that out of three UM coaches, Hoke is the least special. We should be more worried about Borges and Mattison as far as I'm concerned. Those two coordinators have a much better history of winning and achieving great things in college and elsewhere.

Just look at it this way....someone make a list of Hoke's 5 biggest wins in his career. There's a reason he wasn't their first choice and is considered a huge reach by most of the country.

I actually think he will be successful in part because UM desperately needs him to be and will throw all of their support behind him...something they didn't do with Rich Rod. Plus, with his two coordinators...they should do just fine. But Hoke by himself? Please.

Boom.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Rocket89

Brady Hoke has coached 97 football games in D-1 football and beaten 1 BCS team.

1 win over a BCS school. Now he's coaching at Michigan.

How many BCS teams did he coach? Exactly. The question for me and many others isn't whether he is proven or not. He's not, as far as proving he can win at a level as high as Michigan. BFD. Neither was Kelly (sorry, Cinci does not equal anything near what he faced at ND, and he admitted as much), neither was Tressel, neither was Urban, etc etc. Some guys have it, some don't. You can't say Hoke doesn't. We can't say he does for certain.

Ball State's 12-0 run....meh. They beat Navy (so did we that year, so shush), Indiana and a bunch of MAC teams. They collapsed in spectacular fashion against Buffalo in the MAC title game.

Wasn't he the coach of a MAC team? Yeah, I figured that. You saying 'meh' to that season, considering how bad that program had been, shows a major bias. We can say everything you just said about that Ball State team, and say it about BK's last Cinci season, FL demolition included. And I wanted Kelly over everyone but maybe Stoops, and I said that many times here. So yeah, I won't take that season away from him just like I wouldn't let UM and USC fans take away Kelly's Cinci season from him.

I've said it before, Hoke's teams got good at Ball State when Nate Davis started tearing it up at QB.

Who recruited Davis when teams like ND, Mich, OSU, LSU, FL, FSU, etc passed on him? WHo saw talent that the other schools didn't see? Whose staff developed him? Hoke, Hoke, and Hoke. You think you are disparaging Hoke, when you're actually helping his case even more. What do we love about BK? HIs ability to identify talent and develop it. Sounds like Hoke can do the same, which is not good for us considering he has some talented players in the fold already, plus some under-the-radar recruits as well.

However...once again Hoke had one super special offensive star who really tilted the balance in his favor. This man was freshman RB Ronnie Hillman who is likely to blow up over the next couple seasons.

See: everything I just said about Davis. Only this time, the USC, UCLA, and Cal coaches took a look at him and passed. Hoke took a look at him and promptly turned him into a superstar. Feather in his cap.

First off, 7 of SDSU's wins were over the absolute worst teams in college football. And they beat Air Force and Navy as their two biggest wins.

You're not getting how incredibly awful SDSU has been. 3-9, 4-8, 2-10; those were the team records before he took over. They SUCKED, and the community was pissed (those that cared, that is) because there is a lot of local talent, it is a BEAUTIFUL city with tons to do (I have family there, my wife and I just were there these past 2 days and it's insanely beautiful. And the women??? Holy sh!t, not even funny), it's a known party school, and it's easy to get into. But they sucked before Hoke got there. Beating teams like Air Force, who was this close to beating OK last year and are always a good team, and smoking an incredibly good Navy team, is HUGE for that program. HUGE.

Against all 6 tough opponents last year, Hillman ran for 817 yards at a crazy 7.2 yards per carry.

Spotted and offered by Hoke and his crew.

In those same 6 games, the Aztecs gave up an average of 448 yards per game. In other words, their offense kept them in games.

His offensive staff is coming with him. Another feather in his cap.

People keep saying well SDSU beat Navy and we didn't. Well okay...in our apocalyptic loss we only gave up 56 more yards than SDSU did to the Middies. The difference was we couldn't do anything on offense, and SDSU had Hillman run for 228 yards on 28 carries.

You keep making my point for me.

Am I trying to make Hoke look bad? Absolutely.

It's not working.

I honestly think that out of three UM coaches, Hoke is the least special. We should be more worried about Borges and Mattison as far as I'm concerned. Those two coordinators have a much better history of winning and achieving great things in college and elsewhere.

And that doesn't bode well for us then. They are a package. The fact that those guys are hitched to Hoke makes him that much more valuable/viable as a head coach. What would BK and ND have been last year without Diaco??? In trouble, let me tell you. That's not to bag on BK, but just to show that a HC is only as strong as his assistants. Ask CW.:banghead2

Just look at it this way....someone make a list of Hoke's 5 biggest wins in his career. There's a reason he wasn't their first choice and is considered a huge reach by most of the country.

There are tons of guys that haven't been the first choice and that have done INCREDIBLY well, and lots of first choices that have sucked. Pete Carroll was the 4th choice, and he turned out perhaps the greatest decade in the history of college football (modern game). BK, depending on who you talk to, was our 2nd or even 3rd choice behind Stoops and Meyer (who the hell knows). A very large segment of ND fans were PISSED when BK was hired. People were pissed when Les Miles got the LSU job. People around the country were skeptical of Urban Meyer. BFD what the rest of the country thinks. As a ND fan, you should be oblivious to that by now.

But Hoke by himself? Please.

He's not coming by himself. So your argument is moot.

I HATE having to defend Hoke, but the bottom line is nobody knows how we'll work out. But don't act like the man can't coach. He's proven that he can. He's proven that he can turn around programs. Do it once and you can call it a fluke. Do it twice and give the man his due. I can see Lax's point that he doesn't get the (over)hype. But I totally get why people are excited. They're excited in the same way we were excited about BK. It's what fans do - get excited. And in this case, it's warranted. He's got a pretty good track record, he's recruiting really well, he's got a very good staff, and he's a Michigan man doing and saying all the right things. They should be excited...

 

[ACamp1900]

Here's something for you to all chew on... Who the hell cares who Michigan's coach is... It could be Daffy Duck, and defensively for the past three years it might as well have been...

I understand this thread is about Hoke... but he is UM's coach and we wouldn't give two licks if he weren't... so the real focus is the team he coaches imo... and as long as Michigan has QB's who make us look as bad as they have the past two years, our guys will have real, legit, issues beating this team... Hoke, Rich-Rod, or Daffy Duck... we have to prove we can stop shoe laces.

I couldn't care less about Hoke right now... The man taking their snaps is who worries me.

 

[IrishMoore1]

Here's something for you to all chew on... Who the hell cares who Michigan's coach is... It could be Daffy Duck, and defensively for the past three years it might as well have been...

I understand this thread is about Hoke... but he is UM's coach and we wouldn't give two licks if he weren't... so the real focus is the team he coaches imo... and as long as Michigan has QB's who make us look as bad as they have the past two years, our guys will have real, legit, issues beating this team... Hoke, Rich-Rod, or Daffy Duck... we have to prove we can stop shoe laces.

I couldn't care less about Hoke right now... The man taking their snaps is who worries me.

Hoke IS important. A team takes on the identity of its head coach. Doesn't matter who you got, how talented you are, you will accomplish nothing without the right coaching. We all learned this too well from the Weis era. I care about knowing about our opponents because it helps me trash talk better lol But more importantly, it's imperative to know your opponent so you are properly prepared to win. A discussion about the leader of a rival should not be dismissed.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yep, it was great leadership from UM's coaching staff that beat us two years running.............................

 

[Anchorman]

SDSU absolutely slaughtered Navy last year. As both a Navy and ND fan, I think we'd best be very prepared for the next few years, as Hoke is a hell of a coach.

 

[BGIF]

Yep, it was great leadership from UM's coaching staff that beat us two years running.............................

^

UM has 15 wins in 3 years and 2 of them were over ND.

38-34
28-24

Last year after ND lost to them, UM beat Massaschusetts 42-37. The Minutemen scored 2 TDs more than ND did.

I recall the ND QB got hurt and the Irish only had a 3 Star freshman to replace him. Hey, how many Stars did the Minutemen QB have?

I'm curious how many of the 63 scholarship players on the Minutemen got any Stars? What round were they drafted in?

"Oh but Kelly was in his first year installing his system ... ." Kevin Morris was only in the second year of installing his. In his second year in 1AA football.


Hoke was the 3rd or 4th choice for UM. (Chizik was Auburn's 5th or 6th choice.) Hoke's hired two respected coordinators, and he's rolling on the recruiting trail. For the past 3 years Michigan has been discombobulated yet ND's found a way to lose 2 of 3. Since 2007 ND is 1-3 against Navy. Hoke is 3-0 against the Middies at two lesser programs.

Yes, I care about opponents but this urinating contest is embarrassing. Let the Wolverweasels pump out the ammonia. Screw how many wins Ball St had.

Shut down Denard, and move the damn chains!

 

[BeauBenken]

Screw how many wins Ball St had.

But that 12 win season was fun...

until the MAC championship game.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Here's something for you to all chew on... Who the hell cares who Michigan's coach is... It could be Daffy Duck, and defensively for the past three years it might as well have been...

Hey, what's his win-loss record against BCS opponents?

Wasn't he the coach of a MAC team? Yeah, I figured that. You saying 'meh' to that season, considering how bad that program had been, shows a major bias. We can say everything you just said about that Ball State team, and say it about BK's last Cinci season, FL demolition included. And I wanted Kelly over everyone but maybe Stoops, and I said that many times here. So yeah, I won't take that season away from him just like I wouldn't let UM and USC fans take away Kelly's Cinci season from him.

I don't give a **** about Bray-dey either way, and I don't care about being smart, but your arguments against Rocket were flawed with the same logic errors outlined above; see it? Hoykey coached Ball State through the season and the bowl game; Kelly left in the middle of a huge brouhaha right at the beginning for preparations for a bowl game. Hokey lost the MAC Championship to Buffalo, who's average record two years before was, lets see: ZERO WINS! See how long they have played D1 ball. Kelly's former team lost to Florida, who has won 2 National Championships this decade, and was really pissed they weren't playing for a third that day.

And I love your last point:

Shut down Denard, and move the damn chains!

But that would end the need for talk, and that would really be tough on this site.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Hey, what's his win-loss record against BCS opponents?



I don't give a **** about Bray-dey either way, and I don't care about being smart, but your arguments against Rocket were flawed with the same logic errors outlined above; see it? Hoykey coached Ball State through the season and the bowl game; Kelly left in the middle of a huge brouhaha right at the beginning for preparations for a bowl game. Hokey lost the MAC Championship to Buffalo, who's average record two years before was, lets see: ZERO WINS! See how long they have played D1 ball. Kelly's former team lost to Florida, who has won 2 National Championships this decade, and was really pissed they weren't playing for a third that day.

And I love your last point: But that would end the need for talk, and that would really be tough on this site.

I said only one of those 3 quotes you posted above, but yet you talked as if you were talking to the same person the whole time. So I'm not sure where you were trying to go there.

As for my quote, how is it flawed logic? I know everything you just said, and it means nothing. Look at the big picture. You want to concentrate on ONE game, and compare that to a game BK didn't coach. OK, let's compare a random important game...hmmmm, at random, I'll go with the SDSU game vs. Navy. How did Hoke do there? OK, at random, I'll pick a BK important game....hmmmmmm, I'll go with the FedEx Bowl vs VaTech. He lost. I can go with other games where his teams lost to inferior teams too (Tulsa, Navy anyone???) Does that make him a bad coach??? Of course not!

Respond to the entire post, not just one game. Explain to me in your response to my post where I'm wrong about Hoke.

 

[Rocket89]

How many BCS teams did he coach? Exactly. The question for me and many others isn't whether he is proven or not. He's not, as far as proving he can win at a level as high as Michigan. BFD. Neither was Kelly (sorry, Cinci does not equal anything near what he faced at ND, and he admitted as much), neither was Tressel, neither was Urban, etc etc. Some guys have it, some don't. You can't say Hoke doesn't. We can't say he does for certain.

Wait, Kelly beating Pitt, Rutgers, West Virginia, and Oregon State isn't better than Hoke beating a bunch of MAC teams? Brian Kelly beat ranked BCS teams before coming to Notre Dame. I don't know if Hoke really has it, but as far as his career victories go...there's not a lot to look at. That's called being unproven. Urban Meyer beat Missouri in back to back seasons in his two years at BGSU. He took a program that was 2-9 before he got there and made them 8-3 in his first year.

Wasn't he the coach of a MAC team? Yeah, I figured that. You saying 'meh' to that season, considering how bad that program had been, shows a major bias. We can say everything you just said about that Ball State team, and say it about BK's last Cinci season, FL demolition included. And I wanted Kelly over everyone but maybe Stoops, and I said that many times here. So yeah, I won't take that season away from him just like I wouldn't let UM and USC fans take away Kelly's Cinci season from him.

Again, Ball State being terrible before has been severely overstated. And Kelly beat good and ranked BCS teams, stop comparing that to Hoke who has never done that. That was a nice season at Ball State, but by no means mind blowing. It indicates Hoke is probably a decent coach, nothing more.

Who recruited Davis when teams like ND, Mich, OSU, LSU, FL, FSU, etc passed on him? WHo saw talent that the other schools didn't see? Whose staff developed him? Hoke, Hoke, and Hoke. You think you are disparaging Hoke, when you're actually helping his case even more. What do we love about BK? HIs ability to identify talent and develop it. Sounds like Hoke can do the same, which is not good for us considering he has some talented players in the fold already, plus some under-the-radar recruits as well.

Davis is one player.

If that helps Hoke's case...then I have 100 other coaches who are great recruiters too. Point being with one "star" player, you can be very good in the MAC. If he was so great at truly identifying and developing talent, he wouldn't have been a middling coach at Ball State for years.

See: everything I just said about Davis. Only this time, the USC, UCLA, and Cal coaches took a look at him and passed. Hoke took a look at him and promptly turned him into a superstar. Feather in his cap.

One player, see above. Well actually, that makes two players! So two players over 8 years of coaching, and an early good start at UM makes one a great recruiter? Where is the bar being set here?

You're not getting how incredibly awful SDSU has been. 3-9, 4-8, 2-10; those were the team records before he took over. They SUCKED, and the community was pissed (those that cared, that is) because there is a lot of local talent, it is a BEAUTIFUL city with tons to do (I have family there, my wife and I just were there these past 2 days and it's insanely beautiful. And the women??? Holy sh!t, not even funny), it's a known party school, and it's easy to get into. But they sucked before Hoke got there. Beating teams like Air Force, who was this close to beating OK last year and are always a good team, and smoking an incredibly good Navy team, is HUGE for that program. HUGE.

Last year was a big deal for Hoke, but it was just one year. I've purposely been trying to play devil's advocate, but I'm really impressed by his second season at SDSU.

His offensive staff is coming with him. Another feather in his cap.

They might not always be with him.

It's not working.

It is for some.

And that doesn't bode well for us then. They are a package. The fact that those guys are hitched to Hoke makes him that much more valuable/viable as a head coach. What would BK and ND have been last year without Diaco??? In trouble, let me tell you. That's not to bag on BK, but just to show that a HC is only as strong as his assistants. Ask CW.:banghead2

I know it doesn't bode well. But they might not always be with Hoke, especially Mattison. Kelly was a great coach before he ever met Diaco. I'm the biggest Diaco fan out there and Kelly will win with or without him. You have to really start stretching things to say that Kelly needs Diaco.

There are tons of guys that haven't been the first choice and that have done INCREDIBLY well, and lots of first choices that have sucked. Pete Carroll was the 4th choice, and he turned out perhaps the greatest decade in the history of college football (modern game). BK, depending on who you talk to, was our 2nd or even 3rd choice behind Stoops and Meyer (who the hell knows). A very large segment of ND fans were PISSED when BK was hired. People were pissed when Les Miles got the LSU job. People around the country were skeptical of Urban Meyer. BFD what the rest of the country thinks. As a ND fan, you should be oblivious to that by now.

Not really my point. You could take any coach in the country and have this argument. As it is, many UM fans are/were pissed that Hoke was hired. I've been simply trying to point out why that is. Are you planning on putting together the top 5 list??

He's not coming by himself. So your argument is moot.

I've said as much, thank you. There have been plenty of coaches who have looked good with very good coordinators and coaches. Hoke might be one of those guys.

I HATE having to defend Hoke, but the bottom line is nobody knows how we'll work out. But don't act like the man can't coach. He's proven that he can. He's proven that he can turn around programs. Do it once and you can call it a fluke. Do it twice and give the man his due. I can see Lax's point that he doesn't get the (over)hype. But I totally get why people are excited. They're excited in the same way we were excited about BK. It's what fans do - get excited. And in this case, it's warranted. He's got a pretty good track record, he's recruiting really well, he's got a very good staff, and he's a Michigan man doing and saying all the right things. They should be excited...

He can coach, and he has turned around two programs, although it took him an awfully long time to do at Ball State, and two seasons at SDSU isn't a huge sample size. Nevertheless, he has had a solid career to date. Solid, but not great.

We had much more to be excited about with the hiring of Kelly for a multitude of reasons. I've tried to show why people should be skeptical of Hoke and you've been trying to equate Kelly with Hoke. That doesn't compute.

"He's got a pretty good track record" is spot on. Kelly had a great track record. Our fan base would have imploded if Hoke was hired...and that's the dead truth. I think he will do well at Michigan, but I'm not sure well is good enough. And he's nowhere near the coach Kelly is.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

said only one of those 3 quotes you posted above, but yet you talked as if you were talking to the same person the whole time. So I'm not sure where you were trying to go there.

In the first, I was talking about Daffy Duck's winning percentage against BCS teams.

My second, you see to have gotten LA.

And my third, well that is the only thing that ****in' matters: how we respond. Talk is for this site. What happens on the field, that's what matters, that is why we can argue for hours and only risk hurt feelings.

As far as talking to three people in one post without addressing them individually, I have it from a good source that each was able to identify his own quote/response. Sorry I was in a hurry earlier.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm not arguing that Hoke will be great. Nor that he will be better than Kelly. All I'm saying is that he IS a good coach, and he could be a very good fit for Michigan, and I see why people believe he'll be successful (which you admit!!!). You want to undersell him b/c of your admitted bias, be my guest. But I'm not underselling him, and I'm not buying what you're selling.

Wait, Kelly beating Pitt, Rutgers, West Virginia, and Oregon State isn't better than Hoke beating a bunch of MAC teams? Brian Kelly beat ranked BCS teams before coming to Notre Dame. I don't know if Hoke really has it, but as far as his career victories go...there's not a lot to look at. That's called being unproven. Urban Meyer beat Missouri in back to back seasons in his two years at BGSU. He took a program that was 2-9 before he got there and made them 8-3 in his first year.

Are seriously championing teams in the Big East and a middling Pac 10 team? Really? How about this...BK was in the Big East with a Big East team whose coach was took a better job b/c they were doing so well, and he beat fellow Big East teams. Hoke was with a MAC team in the MAC conference and he beat MAC teams. Should we give Paul Hackett more credit for beating Pac 10 teams than BK when he was beating inferior teams? Does that make Hackett a better coach? Of course not. Apples to oranges, and that's obvious.

Davis is one player.

If that helps Hoke's case...then I have 100 other coaches who are great recruiters too. Point being with one "star" player, you can be very good in the MAC. If he was so great at truly identifying and developing talent, he wouldn't have been a middling coach at Ball State for years.

Really dude? You think ONE player makes a team? That one player will propel you to 12-0, and no one else was developed or had great seasons??? Weak. If that's what you think, then I'm wasting my time here. Or at least do a little research before making baseless acclamations. There were several more excellent players on that squad, good enough to make the pros. Guys like Robert Brewster, Dan Gerberry, Darius Hill, Reggie Hodges, Brad Maynard, Andre Ramsey, and Dante Ridgeway are all in the pros, whether they are stars or not. That means that Hoke was spotting talent and developing it. But it doesn't matter, cause your bias is blocking pretty much anything good the man did out of your stream of thinking.

One player, see above. Well actually, that makes two players! So two players over 8 years of coaching, and an early good start at UM makes one a great recruiter? Where is the bar being set here?

Again, see above. Do I need to go through San Diego St's pros too? Well, he was only there for 2 yrs, but I'm sure they'll come out of there as well.

Last year was a big deal for Hoke, but it was just one year. I've purposely been trying to play devil's advocate, but I'm really impressed by his second season at SDSU.

LOL, as I'm doing.

They might not always be with him.

Not the point. They're with him then and now, and now is when he'll be playing ND.

I know it doesn't bode well. But they might not always be with Hoke, especially Mattison. Kelly was a great coach before he ever met Diaco. I'm the biggest Diaco fan out there and Kelly will win with or without him. You have to really start stretching things to say that Kelly needs Diaco.

Never said he needs him. But yes, he needed him last year, no doubt about it. That defense was siiiiiick. And since Kelly is not a hands on recruiter (this is fact guys), he needs guys like Diaco out there. Yes, Kelly is a great coach, but he waited to hire the best possible assts for a reason. Don't begrudge Hoke for doing the exact same thing.

I've said as much, thank you. There have been plenty of coaches who have looked good with very good coordinators and coaches. Hoke might be one of those guys.

And he might not be. What's your point? Neither of us knows.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

^ So much to read

 

[ColinKSU]

Davis is one player.

If that helps Hoke's case...then I have 100 other coaches who are great recruiters too. Point being with one "star" player, you can be very good in the MAC. If he was so great at truly identifying and developing talent, he wouldn't have been a middling coach at Ball State for years.

That's not remotely true and it demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the subject you're arguing over.

Josh Cribbs went to my alma mater (Kent State, a MAC program) and was a *superstar* QB during his time there.

- All-time total offense leader with 10,839 yards.
- All-time rushing touchdowns (38)
- All-time pass completions (616)
- All-time passing yardage (7,169)
- All-time touchdowns scored (41)
- All-time points scored (246)
- One of only two true freshman in NCAA history to both rush and pass for 1,000 yards.
- One of only five players in NCAA history to both rush and pass for 1,000 yards in at least two different seasons.
- One of only four quarterbacks in NCAA history to rush for 3,500 yards and throw for 7,000 yards in his career.
- The only player in NCAA history to lead his team in both rushing and passing in four different seasons.

If Cribbs wasn't a "star" player, then I don't know who is. Kent's best record while Cribbs was there? 6-5.

I'm not saying Hoke is or is not going to be a success at Michigan, but I am saying that what he did at Ball State was pretty impressive -- and it wasn't just because he had Nate Davis as his QB.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Regardless, Brady Hoke needs to be at the top of our list.

 

[Rocket89]

That's not remotely true and it demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the subject you're arguing over.

Josh Cribbs went to my alma mater (Kent State, a MAC program) and was a *superstar* QB during his time there.

- All-time total offense leader with 10,839 yards.
- All-time rushing touchdowns (38)
- All-time pass completions (616)
- All-time passing yardage (7,169)
- All-time touchdowns scored (41)
- All-time points scored (246)
- One of only two true freshman in NCAA history to both rush and pass for 1,000 yards.
- One of only five players in NCAA history to both rush and pass for 1,000 yards in at least two different seasons.
- One of only four quarterbacks in NCAA history to rush for 3,500 yards and throw for 7,000 yards in his career.
- The only player in NCAA history to lead his team in both rushing and passing in four different seasons.

If Cribbs wasn't a "star" player, then I don't know who is. Kent's best record while Cribbs was there? 6-5.

I'm not saying Hoke is or is not going to be a success at Michigan, but I am saying that what he did at Ball State was pretty impressive -- and it wasn't just because he had Nate Davis as his QB.

Yeah that's great, but how come no one who is trying to defend Hoke talks about his 15-31 record at Ball State through 4 years?

Everyone keeps saying the program was in such bad shape, but why did they get worse when he got there?

I've already admitted that I think Hoke is a good coach, but he has some pretty huge marks on his resume for someone who just took over at Michigan. That's all I've been trying to point out.

For NDinLA:

If you go back to my first post on this subject I was merely adding fuel to the fire. Everyone just calm down and take a deep breath. If you don't think Hoke is a great coach, that doesn't mean he's going to turn into a great coach and beat Notre Dame every year because of what you wrote on a message board.

Once again, there is a reason some people are excited for Hoke at UM. I have admitted as much. But there are also a lot of people who laughed at his hiring and are skeptical of what he can do.

Not the point. They're with him then and now, and now is when he'll be playing ND.

This is exactly my point!! My first post had almost nothing to do with what Hoke is going to achieve at Michigan. I'm talking about his black spots on his resume before coming to Michigan. This is the crux of the entire matter here. I've already admitted that given who is surrounding him he will do a good job at UM.

And no, those other coaches were not always with him. I was simply pointing out that for the bulk of Hoke's coaching career he was the coach for a middling Ball State team. I'm more than willing to praise Hoke, but why can't you speak to his first half decade at Ball State? I really don't get it.

We're not going to lose 50-0 if you say one bad thing about Hoke. It's okay.

You can try your hardest to build up Hoke's black spots, but they are there. I don't give a flying eff what you want to buy or sell.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket89
Davis is one player.

If that helps Hoke's case...then I have 100 other coaches who are great recruiters too. Point being with one "star" player, you can be very good in the MAC. If he was so great at truly identifying and developing talent, he wouldn't have been a middling coach at Ball State for years.

That's not remotely true and it demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the subject you're arguing over.

I think Rocket said "can", not will or are assured, or anything like that. I will bet most of the argued points in this thread are semantics like this.

Other than the fact that I am absolutely beside myself waiting for the season to start, I wonder why Bray-dee has elicited such polarized responses, (with a wisp of violent confrontation)?

In the final analysis, you got to admit, Hoke is a good coach, and coaching at Michigan is a lot like Notre Dame, nobody is ready for the job.

By the way, everybody was unanimous for their respect of Michigan's assistants. Assistant coaches can only be great with a certain kind of head coach. We have experience with a head coach that tried to buy the best defensive coaching talent, then meddled and muddled; how did that work out?

Since everybody has put so much effort into this thread, I am going to start a list of questions/tasks that Hoke has to answer/perform going into this season.

First Hoke must integrate his assistants at a high operational level. These guys must give and take and work with almost one mind. It is one thing to turn the show over to your assistant, it is another to know how to maintain enough control to make the pieces fit together properly. Michigan's recruiting class this year does not show me that, being defense heavy, with specific offensive needs, being that they are shifting away from everything RichRod recruited for, for three years. You would think the one thing these coaches could do is put together a shopping list and go after it.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Hoke is going to need to show some determination, and grit if he is going to get UM on the right path. His next two years may be torture, he may lose 6 games this season, and even more his second season. Look at UM's 2012 schedule...man, if they don't finish with some momentum this season, they could be in for a long '12

 

[BeauBenken]

Really dude? You think ONE player makes a team? That one player will propel you to 12-0, and no one else was developed or had great seasons??? Weak. If that's what you think, then I'm wasting my time here. Or at least do a little research before making baseless acclamations. There were several more excellent players on that squad, good enough to make the pros. Guys like Robert Brewster, Dan Gerberry, Darius Hill, Reggie Hodges, Brad Maynard, Andre Ramsey, and Dante Ridgeway are all in the pros, whether they are stars or not. That means that Hoke was spotting talent and developing it. But it doesn't matter, cause your bias is blocking pretty much anything good the man did out of your stream of thinking.

I just want to add Dante Love to that list of talented players. If not for his career ending injury, he might have been considered the best player on the team over Nate Davis. And that's saying something.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I don't give a flying eff

Beside the point, but do "effs" fly? I tossed my eff off the ledge, and it fell. It was a cute eff. Dead now.

 

[military_irish]

Beside the point, but do "effs" fly? I tossed my eff off the ledge, and it fell. It was a cute eff. Dead now.

You should know that all "effs" should be equipped with a parachute. At least mine is, I threw mine off a cliff (on purpose) but the damn thing popped open his chute.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

My eff was cute. I had to eff myself in memoriam for my eff.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Rocket89

For NDinLA:

If you go back to my first post on this subject I was merely adding fuel to the fire. Everyone just calm down and take a deep breath. If you don't think Hoke is a great coach, that doesn't mean he's going to turn into a great coach and beat Notre Dame every year because of what you wrote on a message board.

Who needs to calm down? Certainly not me. This crap is just to pass time, and in no way is a Michigan man worth getting worked up for. You looked way to far into the situation and made it bigger than it was. And btw, YOU are the one arguing that he isn't a great coach, so if what you wrote above is true, why are you even bothering?

Once again, there is a reason some people are excited for Hoke at UM. I have admitted as much. But there are also a lot of people who laughed at his hiring and are skeptical of what he can do.

No sh!t. And BFD. There are a lot of people who laughed at FL when they hired Meyer. There are lot of people who laughed at USC when they hired Pete Carroll. There are a lot of ND fans (ever read NDNation?) who were pissed we hired Kelly. Who has argued against the fact that people didn't like the Hoke hire? You're arguing with phantoms on that one.

This is exactly my point!! My first post had almost nothing to do with what Hoke is going to achieve at Michigan. I'm talking about his black spots on his resume before coming to Michigan. This is the crux of the entire matter here. I've already admitted that given who is surrounding him he will do a good job at UM.

Never argued there weren't black holes. But look further into those black holes. Those two programs SUCKED. It took a while to get Ball State up, but he did, didn't he? Took him longer than a guy like you expected, but he got them there, and SDSU saw he was a good enough coach to hire him. And he rewarded SDSU with their best year in decades. And that wasn't the crux of the matter. You disparaged him for a lot more things, especially his recruiting and ability to develop players, which was quickly debunked, to which you had no answer.

And no, those other coaches were not always with him. I was simply pointing out that for the bulk of Hoke's coaching career he was the coach for a middling Ball State team. I'm more than willing to praise Hoke, but why can't you speak to his first half decade at Ball State? I really don't get it.

Simple, the team sucked with zero talent, and it took him a while to get his system in place and the players in place to run it. Also, as a coach, you get better every single year. You learn things about yourself, your team, and the game. I guarantee you he is a much better head coach today than he was in his 3rd year at Ball St. I've coached for almost 20 yrs. I look back and can't believe what I didn't know when I first started, and I don't know how we even won a few games. And our very own BK has said as much several times.

Is it really out of the realm of possibility that he didn't have any talent (go look up how many NFL players the previous coach recruited/developed, and then compare that to what Hoke did - you'll see what I'm talking about), and that Hoke was learning on the job his first couple of years? Did he not improve or am I imagining things? I'll definitely give you that his teams weren't good at Ball State his first few years. Maybe he wasn't good coach yet. But he is now.

We're not going to lose 50-0 if you say one bad thing about Hoke. It's okay.

LOL. I'm just laughing at you try to bag on him for things that aren't there. There's definitely things that I could say about Hoke, but I've ben spending too much time telling guys like you where you are dead wrong. Point in case, having to waste my time telling debunking your ridiculous theory that Nate Davis was the only good player on Ball St's team and that should be a black eye on Hoke's resume, when in fact he should be celebrated (too strong a word but I'm blanking right now) for recruiting a player no big school wanted and developing him into a star. And he recruited and developed several of those players into NFL players from tiny lil Ball St.

You can try your hardest to build up Hoke's black spots, but they are there. I don't give a flying eff what you want to buy or sell.

Ha ha, obviously you do give an eff, maybe even a flying eff, or you wouldn't keep responding to me.

Bottom line, AGAIN, is that while I don't think it was a grand slam hire, I absolutely see why Michigan fans are excited. There's reason to be. Where am I wrong in saying that?

EDIT: In the end, we're all Irish fans, so it;s nothing personal, and it's all good. Much Fichigan and Brady Hoke.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Holy...

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Holy poopoo. Mothers, hide your kids.

I kinda think NDinL.A's wife is good looking. And GoldenITF's momma.

 

[Rocket89]

Who needs to calm down? Certainly not me. This crap is just to pass time, and in no way is a Michigan man worth getting worked up for. You looked way to far into the situation and made it bigger than it was. And btw, YOU are the one arguing that he isn't a great coach, so if what you wrote above is true, why are you even bothering?



No sh!t. And BFD. There are a lot of people who laughed at FL when they hired Meyer. There are lot of people who laughed at USC when they hired Pete Carroll. There are a lot of ND fans (ever read NDNation?) who were pissed we hired Kelly. Who has argued against the fact that people didn't like the Hoke hire? You're arguing with phantoms on that one.


Never argued there weren't black holes. But look further into those black holes. Those two programs SUCKED. It took a while to get Ball State up, but he did, didn't he? Took him longer than a guy like you expected, but he got them there, and SDSU saw he was a good enough coach to hire him. And he rewarded SDSU with their best year in decades. And that wasn't the crux of the matter. You disparaged him for a lot more things, especially his recruiting and ability to develop players, which was quickly debunked, to which you had no answer.



Simple, the team sucked with zero talent, and it took him a while to get his system in place and the players in place to run it. Also, as a coach, you get better every single year. You learn things about yourself, your team, and the game. I guarantee you he is a much better head coach today than he was in his 3rd year at Ball St. I've coached for almost 20 yrs. I look back and can't believe what I didn't know when I first started, and I don't know how we even won a few games. And our very own BK has said as much several times.

Is it really out of the realm of possibility that he didn't have any talent (go look up how many NFL players the previous coach recruited/developed, and then compare that to what Hoke did - you'll see what I'm talking about), and that Hoke was learning on the job his first couple of years? Did he not improve or am I imagining things? I'll definitely give you that his teams weren't good at Ball State his first few years. Maybe he wasn't good coach yet. But he is now.


LOL. I'm just laughing at you try to bag on him for things that aren't there. There's definitely things that I could say about Hoke, but I've ben spending too much time telling guys like you where you are dead wrong. Point in case, having to waste my time telling debunking your ridiculous theory that Nate Davis was the only good player on Ball St's team and that should be a black eye on Hoke's resume, when in fact he should be celebrated (too strong a word but I'm blanking right now) for recruiting a player no big school wanted and developing him into a star. And he recruited and developed several of those players into NFL players from tiny lil Ball St.



Ha ha, obviously you do give an eff, maybe even a flying eff, or you wouldn't keep responding to me.

Bottom line, AGAIN, is that while I don't think it was a grand slam hire, I absolutely see why Michigan fans are excited. There's reason to be. Where am I wrong in saying that?

EDIT: In the end, we're all Irish fans, so it;s nothing personal, and it's all good. Much Fichigan and Brady Hoke.

We're basically arguing at each end of the spectrum respectively.

We agree on most of the stuff I would say.

Muck Fichigan.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

That...was...lovely.

 

[ColinKSU]

Yeah that's great, but how come no one who is trying to defend Hoke talks about his 15-31 record at Ball State through 4 years?

Everyone keeps saying the program was in such bad shape, but why did they get worse when he got there?

Boy, that's awfully dismissive.