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Just saw a newsclip last night on churches taking extra precautions for New Year.
Another Shooting
- Thread starter SonofOahu
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Just saw a newsclip last night on churches taking extra precautions for New Year.
Satire is dead in today’s world...
Irish YJ
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Very sad. IMO, we've always had mental health issues, and it's more cultural than anything else. While we still need more emphasis on mental health, we have far more emphasis on it now compared to 20+ years ago.... and this shit didn't happen back then.
I love it when folks jump on these like Legacy. Funny AF. I've seen similar with a few The Onion articles.
NorthDakota
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Grand Jury Appropriate With Recusals And Video Not Showing Who Attacked.
Grand Jury Appropriate With Recusals And Video Not Showing Who Attacked.
MAY 5, 2020 / 7:51 PM / UPDATED 3 HOURS AGO
Georgia grand jury to consider charges in shooting of unarmed black man
Dan Whitcomb
VIDEO#1 AT: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/african-american-man-gets-by-shotgun/#x
UPDATE:
VIDEO#1 (my designation) shown by CBS is at least 20 seconds shorter than the same video shown, uncut, by CNN VIDEO#2 https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/05/us/ahmaud-arbery-jogging-georgia-shooting/index.html
The missing 20 second clip is shown at about the 00:46 second mark. This shows Arbery jogging around the passenger side of the truck and running at the shooter who is now in front of the truck. I wrote my NOTES below AFTER watching only the CBS video#1. Then I went looking to see if anyone was showing an uncut version. The CNN Video#2 addresses some of my comments. I suspect the car weaving was in the video making car was due to the driver being surprised coming around the bend by the truck in the road and was swerving to avoid an accident.
(Reuters) - A Georgia county prosecutor said on Tuesday he would ask a grand jury to decide if charges should be filed against a white former law enforcement officer and his son in the fatal shooting of an unarmed young black man as he ran through a small town.
The shooting of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery outside Brunswick, Georgia, in February was captured on videotape and posted on social media. The graphic footage has stirred outrage over the reluctance of prosecutors to file charges against Gregory McMichael and his son, Travis.
“I am of the opinion that the case should be presented to the grand jury of Glynn County for consideration of criminal charges against those involved in the death of Mr. Arbery,” Tom Durden, acting district attorney for a neighboring district, said in a letter posted on Facebook.
Durden, who was assigned to investigate the fatal shooting after prosecutors in Brunswick and a neighboring district recused themselves due to potential conflicts of interest, said he would present the case to the next available grand jury in Glynn County. That grand jury might not meet until mid-June or later because courts were under restrictions imposed by the coronavirus pandemic, he said.
The video footage, which was taken by an unidentified witness in another car, shows Arbery jogging down a narrow two-lane road and around a white pickup truck stopped in the right lane, its driver’s door open. (BGIF NOTE: looking at the video there appears to be a person (clearly legs) visible at that open driver's door impeding Arbery path.)
As Arbery crosses back in front of the truck a gunshot is fired. Arbery is then seen struggling with a man holding a long gun as a second man stands in the bed of the truck brandishing a revolver. Two more shots are heard before Arbery stumbles and falls face-down onto the asphalt. (BGIF NOTE: The video doesn't show if Arbery attacked Travis McMichael or if McMichael attacked Arbery. The witness is the shooter's father who was "brandishing a revolver." Arbery may have been the one "standing his ground when menaced. He wasn't going to outrun a shotgun. IS there a missing piece of video showing the initial confrontation? THE CBS report cuts away from the video for the reporter's comments then show two men struggling with a long gun)
According to a police report obtained by the New York Times, Gregory McMichael, a former police officer and district attorney’s investigator, told investigators the incident began when he spotted Arbery from his front yard “hauling ass” down the street.
McMichael told police that, because he suspected Arbery in a string of recent neighborhood break-ins, he summoned his son and the two men gave chase in the truck, Gregory McMichael carrying a .357 Magnum revolver and Travis armed with a shotgun.
Gregory McMichael said Arbery began to “violently attack” his son and fought over the shotgun, prompting Travis to open fire. It is not clear from the police report or the videotape if Gregory McMichael also fired on Arbery.
According to a letter obtained by the Times, the prosecutor in Brunswick (BGIF NOTE: who recused himself) argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.
BGIF NOTE: Don't know if the right to pursue a burglary suspect is valid. There was no threat to their lives until they confronted Arbery jogging down the street. But two witnesses will claim Arbery was on their property and there's no one or no video to show otherwise. Without video of at least the confrontation I don't see at this time how the new prosecutor could get a conviction on even manslaughter. Where's Jack McCoy with a Depraved Indifference prosecution ... and a NYC jury?
Grand Jury Appropriate With Recusals And Video Not Showing Who Attacked.
MAY 5, 2020 / 7:51 PM / UPDATED 3 HOURS AGO
Georgia grand jury to consider charges in shooting of unarmed black man
Dan Whitcomb
VIDEO#1 AT: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/african-american-man-gets-by-shotgun/#x
UPDATE:
VIDEO#1 (my designation) shown by CBS is at least 20 seconds shorter than the same video shown, uncut, by CNN VIDEO#2 https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/05/us/ahmaud-arbery-jogging-georgia-shooting/index.html
The missing 20 second clip is shown at about the 00:46 second mark. This shows Arbery jogging around the passenger side of the truck and running at the shooter who is now in front of the truck. I wrote my NOTES below AFTER watching only the CBS video#1. Then I went looking to see if anyone was showing an uncut version. The CNN Video#2 addresses some of my comments. I suspect the car weaving was in the video making car was due to the driver being surprised coming around the bend by the truck in the road and was swerving to avoid an accident.
(Reuters) - A Georgia county prosecutor said on Tuesday he would ask a grand jury to decide if charges should be filed against a white former law enforcement officer and his son in the fatal shooting of an unarmed young black man as he ran through a small town.
The shooting of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery outside Brunswick, Georgia, in February was captured on videotape and posted on social media. The graphic footage has stirred outrage over the reluctance of prosecutors to file charges against Gregory McMichael and his son, Travis.
“I am of the opinion that the case should be presented to the grand jury of Glynn County for consideration of criminal charges against those involved in the death of Mr. Arbery,” Tom Durden, acting district attorney for a neighboring district, said in a letter posted on Facebook.
Durden, who was assigned to investigate the fatal shooting after prosecutors in Brunswick and a neighboring district recused themselves due to potential conflicts of interest, said he would present the case to the next available grand jury in Glynn County. That grand jury might not meet until mid-June or later because courts were under restrictions imposed by the coronavirus pandemic, he said.
The video footage, which was taken by an unidentified witness in another car, shows Arbery jogging down a narrow two-lane road and around a white pickup truck stopped in the right lane, its driver’s door open. (BGIF NOTE: looking at the video there appears to be a person (clearly legs) visible at that open driver's door impeding Arbery path.)
As Arbery crosses back in front of the truck a gunshot is fired. Arbery is then seen struggling with a man holding a long gun as a second man stands in the bed of the truck brandishing a revolver. Two more shots are heard before Arbery stumbles and falls face-down onto the asphalt. (BGIF NOTE: The video doesn't show if Arbery attacked Travis McMichael or if McMichael attacked Arbery. The witness is the shooter's father who was "brandishing a revolver." Arbery may have been the one "standing his ground when menaced. He wasn't going to outrun a shotgun. IS there a missing piece of video showing the initial confrontation? THE CBS report cuts away from the video for the reporter's comments then show two men struggling with a long gun)
According to a police report obtained by the New York Times, Gregory McMichael, a former police officer and district attorney’s investigator, told investigators the incident began when he spotted Arbery from his front yard “hauling ass” down the street.
McMichael told police that, because he suspected Arbery in a string of recent neighborhood break-ins, he summoned his son and the two men gave chase in the truck, Gregory McMichael carrying a .357 Magnum revolver and Travis armed with a shotgun.
Gregory McMichael said Arbery began to “violently attack” his son and fought over the shotgun, prompting Travis to open fire. It is not clear from the police report or the videotape if Gregory McMichael also fired on Arbery.
According to a letter obtained by the Times, the prosecutor in Brunswick (BGIF NOTE: who recused himself) argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.
BGIF NOTE: Don't know if the right to pursue a burglary suspect is valid. There was no threat to their lives until they confronted Arbery jogging down the street. But two witnesses will claim Arbery was on their property and there's no one or no video to show otherwise. Without video of at least the confrontation I don't see at this time how the new prosecutor could get a conviction on even manslaughter. Where's Jack McCoy with a Depraved Indifference prosecution ... and a NYC jury?
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drayer54
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The headline is dumb. Justified shootings don't require you to assess the attacker to see if they are armed.
As for this case, something is missing. Nothing about this feels right. Either he did something and they were chasing him or they had a history or something we don't know yet.
People don't do this over a fella jogging down the road. They had a reason. Not saying it's a good reason or a legal reason, but something was going on here.
As for this case, something is missing. Nothing about this feels right. Either he did something and they were chasing him or they had a history or something we don't know yet.
People don't do this over a fella jogging down the road. They had a reason. Not saying it's a good reason or a legal reason, but something was going on here.
Bishop2b5
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There had been some theft in the neighborhood and he was suspected by some of the people there of being responsible. Someone called 911 shortly before the shooting and reported him snooping around a house that was under construction and then running away when the two guys went after him. His family claims he was an innocent jogger out for a run doing nothing wrong. The guys who shot him claim he was stealing and when they tried to confront and apprehend him, he attacked them.
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Just announced they're going to trial.
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This one is puzzling to me. Two protests the following day. One at the scene and the other at the city-County Building. Police chief goes to the scene to discuss with the protestors who start to become unruly and throw water bottles, so Chief gets in his car and leaves. Some protestors start throwing water bottles at him as he drives away.
This guy has a criminal history, was carrying a gun and recorded himself during the chase telling everyone he wasn't going back to jail. Protestors say the police fired too many times. If he just pulls over he's alive. Why is it so hard for people to understand this? For those of you keeping score at home, the victim, the police officer and the chief are all black.
https://fox59.com/news/impd-chief-speaks-about-deadly-police-shooting-livestreamed-online/
INDIANAPOLIS — Two men were killed in two separate officer-involved shootings involving IMPD. The shootings took place less than eight hours apart.
In one case, a 21-year-old man livestreamed the moments leading up to his death.
Police claim the shooting at 62nd and Michigan started when officers tried to pull over a car for reckless driving. That led to a high-speed chase.
With sirens in background, Dreasjon Reed began to live stream from behind the wheel.
“Man I just can’t, I can’t go back to jail. Everybody knows me. I do not like jail,” said Reed.
For more than 13 minutes, Reed listened to music and continued to elude police.
“Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I’m not going to jail today. No sir. You’ve got to catch me baby. I’m not going to jail today,” said Reed.
Reed eventually stopped at the scene of 62nd and Michigan and jumped out of his car.
What happens next is hard to decipher on the video. Reed gets out of the car and, presumably, runs. You can hear rustling and some voices, but you can’t see anything because the camera is obscured.
The camera pans up to show Reed briefly. A buzzing sound is heard—presumably, a Taser that police said was deployed during the incident.
Reed yells an expletive, and the camera pans up to the sky. Several gunshots ring out. The camera remains fixed on the sky for the duration of the video.
Police claim an officer tried to use his Taser on Reed, which was ineffective. The police chief insists Reed pulled out a gun, and both men shot at each other.
In all, the police chief believes 15 shots were fired, with Reed firing twice. Photos of Reed holding the gun used in the shooting have been seen on social media.
“At this point I have no reason to think the officer didn’t act appropriately, but I’m waiting to see how the investigation plays out,” said IMPD chief Randal Taylor.
While the shooting remains under investigation, Taylor promised to be open and honest.
“It’s my commitment to the mayor this morning. We will act with transparency. We will act with fairness. We will act with compassion,” said Taylor.
For their part, Reed’s family criticized the number of shots fired by police.
“No, he didn’t make the best choice. He probably could have pulled over. He probably could have stayed in the car. That does not mean it was okay for the police to shoot him 12 -15 times,” said Reed’s aunt Temesha Crockett.
After the shooting, Reed’s phone camera continued to roll and a different IMPD officer could be heard making inappropriate comments toward Reed’s body.
“Looks like it’s going to be a closed casket homie,” said that unidentified officer.
“Let me be clear. His comments are unacceptable and unbecoming of our police department. We will be pursuing disciplinary action against that officer,” said Taylor.
The officer who pulled the trigger is on paid leave while the case is investigated. That is standard policy.
This guy has a criminal history, was carrying a gun and recorded himself during the chase telling everyone he wasn't going back to jail. Protestors say the police fired too many times. If he just pulls over he's alive. Why is it so hard for people to understand this? For those of you keeping score at home, the victim, the police officer and the chief are all black.
https://fox59.com/news/impd-chief-speaks-about-deadly-police-shooting-livestreamed-online/
INDIANAPOLIS — Two men were killed in two separate officer-involved shootings involving IMPD. The shootings took place less than eight hours apart.
In one case, a 21-year-old man livestreamed the moments leading up to his death.
Police claim the shooting at 62nd and Michigan started when officers tried to pull over a car for reckless driving. That led to a high-speed chase.
With sirens in background, Dreasjon Reed began to live stream from behind the wheel.
“Man I just can’t, I can’t go back to jail. Everybody knows me. I do not like jail,” said Reed.
For more than 13 minutes, Reed listened to music and continued to elude police.
“Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I’m not going to jail today. No sir. You’ve got to catch me baby. I’m not going to jail today,” said Reed.
Reed eventually stopped at the scene of 62nd and Michigan and jumped out of his car.
What happens next is hard to decipher on the video. Reed gets out of the car and, presumably, runs. You can hear rustling and some voices, but you can’t see anything because the camera is obscured.
The camera pans up to show Reed briefly. A buzzing sound is heard—presumably, a Taser that police said was deployed during the incident.
Reed yells an expletive, and the camera pans up to the sky. Several gunshots ring out. The camera remains fixed on the sky for the duration of the video.
Police claim an officer tried to use his Taser on Reed, which was ineffective. The police chief insists Reed pulled out a gun, and both men shot at each other.
In all, the police chief believes 15 shots were fired, with Reed firing twice. Photos of Reed holding the gun used in the shooting have been seen on social media.
“At this point I have no reason to think the officer didn’t act appropriately, but I’m waiting to see how the investigation plays out,” said IMPD chief Randal Taylor.
While the shooting remains under investigation, Taylor promised to be open and honest.
“It’s my commitment to the mayor this morning. We will act with transparency. We will act with fairness. We will act with compassion,” said Taylor.
For their part, Reed’s family criticized the number of shots fired by police.
“No, he didn’t make the best choice. He probably could have pulled over. He probably could have stayed in the car. That does not mean it was okay for the police to shoot him 12 -15 times,” said Reed’s aunt Temesha Crockett.
After the shooting, Reed’s phone camera continued to roll and a different IMPD officer could be heard making inappropriate comments toward Reed’s body.
“Looks like it’s going to be a closed casket homie,” said that unidentified officer.
“Let me be clear. His comments are unacceptable and unbecoming of our police department. We will be pursuing disciplinary action against that officer,” said Taylor.
The officer who pulled the trigger is on paid leave while the case is investigated. That is standard policy.
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It's a shame that it took the video release to spur actual charges.
The DA had the video, but considered it justified.
Then the public saw it... now it's worth a murder charge?
The 911 call alone was enough to know that this was nothing more than two white guys thinking a man is dangerous because he's black.
TorontoGold
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Extremely gross. I'm not exactly sure how their life was in danger when they're the ones in the truck. Seems counter intuitive to approach someone seemingly dangerous and engage them, unless of course they wanted trouble.
End of the day, a guy ended up dead when it really shouldn't have ended that way.
drayer54
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I struggle to understand how the video being released changes the dynamics of the case. It seems it should have gone to a jury or it shouldn't.
I also struggle to understand how,given the bizarre events and few details,we know how anyone could conclude that this was purely racially motivated?
I live right by 106th & Michigan. This wasn't far away.
That said, I struggle to feel outraged for someone who is fleeing the police on Michigan Ave with a gun on him.
What are we protesting? The right for an armed criminal to flee the police? Good riddance.
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Yep it's just a few minutes away. A long time ago I worked off of 62nd. Would hit that area for lunch.
They're upset about the number of shots fired, but if he doesn't flee, he's still alive and he recorded himself saying he wasn't going to go back to jail.
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ACamp1900
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Nvm
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Wild Bill
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Yes, you should definitely avoid these situations and let the men take care of it.
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I'm making the assumption that these guys wouldn't have mounted up with shotguns to go catch a white guy suspected of misdemeanor criminal activity...
But maybe these former law enforcement guys feel invincible enough that they would have gone out and killed a white man over suspected thievery, just like they did the black dude.
Irish YJ
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From everything I've read and seen, seems as simple as two rednecks playing "big man with gun". How they didn't take action prior to the vid coming out is insane (again, assuming there's nothing more to it). Can't say at this point if it is or isn't "racism", but assuming nothing more comes out, I hope they get life (or death) regardless. Sure does smell a certain way though.
Sea Turtle
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This case isn't as cut and dry and black and white as many are making this out. This is going to be messy.
Irish YJ
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Unless more info comes out, the video is pretty telling. 3 guys with guns in two trucks run down a jogger in broad daylight and shoot him. Unless there is some proof that they guy was actively engaged in criminal behavior at that time, not sure how messy it could be.
Sea Turtle
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It's intent. A couple of guys try to make a citizens arrest because they believed he was a burglar. The victim attacks the guy with the gun. They struggle with it and the victim is shot and killed.
It's being framed as these guys went out and just lynched some black guy. The public is frothing at the mouth for murder 1. It isn't. I don't believe it's even murder 2. Manslaughter and criminal negligence. Everybody calling these guys 'red necks' isn't helping either.
It was a tragic mistake and stupidity. They should have just called the police and he should have just stopped and waited for the police to come and clear him.
Irish YJ
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I'm white, live in GA, and very familiar with that area all the way up to Hilton Head and down to Jax.... Pretty sure both Brunswick and nearby Nahunta have Klan history. I've driven the stretch between Beaufort and Jekyll many times... Some if makes Deliverance look like NYC...
Like I said, unless there is more info, the situation is pretty clear. 3 guys with guns in 2 trucks.... Unless the kid was actively and clearly involved in some type of crime, there is simply no excuse. Georgia law says that you can only make a citizens arrest if you actually witnessed the crime. Suspecting someone of a crime is not enough, and the guy is ex law enforcement and should easily know this. No excuse.
If more info comes out, I'm happy to adjust my opinion.... but right now, between the video and the suspects own statements (suspected him of a crime, not witnessed), they were totally in the wrong and breaking the law. If there's not more info, this will likely be pretty simple per GA law.
Sea Turtle
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I guess time will tell if it's as simple as some guys going out with the intent of murdering somebody.
I don't think it is but we can agree to disagree for the time being. Trevon Martin was supposed to be pretty simple too. And then the trial happened and not everything was quite as it seemed.
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Irish YJ
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I'm not a SJW on the topic at all. I simply react to the facts out there. I've been on the opposite side of things several times. I'm fine with both bearing arms, and citizen's arrest if done lawfully. This time though, there's simply not a lot of information out there to even begin to give the shooter the benefit of the doubt. Unarmed kid. History of jogging. Confronted by 3 men in two trucks of whom at least 2 were brandishing guns. And with the father's history of law enforcement (should have known the law), and his statements (suspected, not witnessed), it will be an uphill battle based on the facts out there.
They don't have to have "intended" to kill someone or premeditated the act. To do what they did though, at minimum they would had to have directly witnessed a crime to even deserve a defense. If they didn't witness, it's likely a negligent act.. I'm not even saying racism was involved per my previous post.
At minimum based on what is known, sounds like stupid, and possibly redneck, vigilantism. They'll likely not be able to prove 1st degree (based on currently known info), but 2nd degree or VM will likely be in play based on negligent act. Likely plea to IM.
Sea Turtle
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Oh I agree. They were stupid and were in the wrong. Manslaughter in some form seems appropriate. It's just a tragedy all around.
I've read several articles but I've seen no mention of a second truck OR a third armed man. Can you provide a cite for me to read ... or are you assuming the cell phone video taker was the third party (of the "3 guys with guns in 2 trucks" and that person was armed?). Neither the ID of the video taker nor a description of the video taking vehicle were provided. The articles did mention that the IDs of 911 callers were redacted. I also don't recall any mention of third armed man.
I know I found it strange when I posted the original CBS news report that a video was taken of a seemingly random jogger going around a bend in the road ... particularly as the driver seems to struggle to keep the vehicle on the road negotiating the curve while trying to keep the action on camera. Unlike shootings where a bystander sees a confrontation and pulls out a cellphone to record an incident in progress this videographer has the camera rolling before the event took place ... like it was known that a confrontation was going to take place around that bend in the road.
IF that video vehicle was bearing down, closing on the jogger, as he came around the bend and he saw two armed men blocking his path I know I would not be thinking of a citizen's arrest as a likely outcome regardless of race. Between a hammer and an anvil it would be a quick decision, fight or flight, ... and there doesn't seem to be an avenue for flight with guns involved. Add in the racial component and fight for my life becomes the obvious choice for survival.
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NorthDakota
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This will be a high visibility dispute. I'm sure a lot will come out between now and then.
Irish YJ
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The 2nd truck I was assuming is Bryan (who filmed it). Pretty sure it's a truck he's in per the vid, but I guess could be a car. He, per his statements, suggests he wasn't a part of it, just decided to follow through the neighborhood to film it. If I was out in the yard like Bryan doing yard work, and saw 2 guys with guns chasing someone, I might also follow with my cam rolling too, if I'm honest lol...
Arbery however doesn't know who's with who. He just knows one truck cuts him off and another car/truck following. And then someone hops out with a shotgun. The father had a pistol in the back but Arbery doesn't know that. So 3 guys, two trucks, but only 2 were armed (should have been clearer). Personally I think I'd go for the shotgun too if I didn't know the 2nd guy had a handgun. If I do think I'm in danger, continuing to run makes me an easy shotgun target.
On Bryan, they reported more stuff here on local TV, but here's the CNN article.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/09/us/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-video-saturday/index.html
Sea Turtle
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Well this is going to change the 'just jogging' narrative to 'he didn't deserve to die for being a burglar' real quick as his mother now confirms it was him. Messy.
https://abc7.com/ahmaud-arbury-video-killed-death-did-break-in-to-home/6172467/
https://abc7.com/ahmaud-arbury-video-killed-death-did-break-in-to-home/6172467/
NorthDakota
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I mean...walking in a house under construction is probably illegal but really not a big deal as far as I am concerned.