All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[Cackalacky]

You forgot the J in the middle.......

Can’t SW without a J. It’s bad form.

 

[Cackalacky]

Maz Kanata to Han Solo: "So... who's the girl?" Hard cut.

Rey's lightsaber vision:

Maz Kanata to Rey: "That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him. And now, it calls to you."

So I been thinking.... Those two clips alone are supporting evidence that she was left behind. Daisy said she thought it was very clear in TFA who her parents were. The fan theories of her parentage were born on forums not in the movie. Maz’s Line was awkward. I am more pissed we don’t find out how Maz got Luke’s lightsaber though. I think the force is what brought Rey to that room, not that she was possibly a Skywalker. That was pure speculation by fans after the fact.

 

[Cackalacky]

Wiz, you seen Matt the Radar technician mod for Kylo?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/QH8mhQNCyP">pic.twitter.com/QH8mhQNCyP</a></p>— Star Wars Legacy (@theswlegacy) <a href="https://twitter.com/theswlegacy/status/948199107826417664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLion]

 

[connor_in]

Why is it racist for a fictional character to have an accent that sounds like one thing or another?


The difference is that The Phantom Menace was marketed heavily on Darth Maul. LucasFilm told us "this guy is important." Nobody ever told us that Snoke was important, we (the fans) did that on our own.

It's why Rey's parentage (if true) is my biggest gripe about TLJ. Unlike Snoke, which fans took and ran with, the mystery of Rey's origin was explicitly presented to us in TFA and then we were left out in the cold.


I made that joke on May 10, 2012. You're six years late.

Every good Catholic made that joke back in the late 1970's

 

[wizards8507]

So I been thinking.... Those two clips alone are supporting evidence that she was left behind. Daisy said she thought it was very clear in TFA who her parents were. The fan theories of her parentage were born on forums not in the movie. Maz’s Line was awkward. I am more pissed we don’t find out how Maz got Luke’s lightsaber though. I think the force is what brought Rey to that room, not that she was possibly a Skywalker. That was pure speculation by fans after the fact.

It's evidence that she was left behind by someone leaving in a starship. Alcoholic Jakku scavengers wouldn't be departing the desert in a starship.

 

[wizards8507]

Wiz, you seen Matt the Radar technician mod for Kylo?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/QH8mhQNCyP">pic.twitter.com/QH8mhQNCyP</a></p>— Star Wars Legacy (@theswlegacy) <a href="https://twitter.com/theswlegacy/status/948199107826417664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not canon. 0/10 do not want.

 

[Cackalacky]

It's evidence that she was left behind by someone leaving in a starship. Alcoholic Jakku scavengers wouldn't be departing the desert in a starship.

They would if it wasnt their ship. They dont have to own a ship if they are poor and sold/left their daughter. They likely wouldnt. I agree you cant get that from the scene but you also equally cant say that was definitively her parents ship.

 

[phork]

But didn't Kylo say they were buried in a shallow grave on Jakku or something?

Rian Johnson says:

So, can I just make the statement, that’s who her parents are? They came from nothing, they’re buried in the desert, is that for sure?



RIAN JOHNSON: That’s what Kylo sees and that’s what he tells her and I think he’s not lying in that moment. That’s what he saw and she seems to believe it when she hears it. I don’t want to … I’m not writing the next film, we’ll see how they handle it going forward, and as we all know in these movies, there’s always a certain point of view that’s involved. But, for me, I’ll tell you that was the … I can understand why that answer doesn’t feel good. It’s not supposed to feel good. It’s supposed to be the hardest thing she could possibly hear in that moment.

 

[ACamp1900]

So they don't even know where it's going moving forward?? Surely that's not the case... right?

 

[zelezo vlk]

So they don't even know where it's going moving forward?? Surely that's not the case... right?

Reversing on that would be inexcusable imo.

 

[connor_in]

I just wanna say that I don't feel Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks' people have gotten enough attention in the recent films.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The difference is that The Phantom Menace was marketed heavily on Darth Maul. LucasFilm told us "this guy is important." Nobody ever told us that Snoke was important, we (the fans) did that on our own .

What? No we didn't!

- He was the clear head of the first order and projected himself as a giant like the Emperor.
- He built a bigger Death Star and seemed to have limitless resources.
- Kylo Ren and everyone bad were terrified of him.
- Leah and Han specifically acknowledged that he corrupted their son, leading to his betrayal of Luke.
- He tossed around Hux via cell phone.
- Like acknowledged that he somehow turned his pupil despite his best efforts.
- He absolutely toyed with Kylo and Rey, both from a distance and in their presence, demonstrating a Yoda/Palestine mastery of the force.

... then, after decades of badassery, he got killed by KR, not while he was distracted, but while he was actually reading KR's mind and explaining what KR was currently thinking (which he was wrong about- you can't secretly will something in your own head).

 

[wizards8507]

What? No we didn't!

- He was the clear head of the first order and projected himself as a giant like the Emperor.
- He built a bigger Death Star and seemed to have limitless resources.
- Kylo Ren and everyone bad were terrified of him.
- Leah and Han specifically acknowledged that he corrupted their son, leading to his betrayal of Luke.
- He tossed around Hux via cell phone.
- Like acknowledged that he somehow turned his pupil despite his best efforts.
- He absolutely toyed with Kylo and Rey, both from a distance and in their presence, demonstrating a Yoda/Palestine mastery of the force.

... then, after decades of badassery, he got killed by KR, not while he was distracted, but while he was actually reading KR's mind and explaining what KR was currently thinking (which he was wrong about- you can't secretly will something in your own head).

You're describing evidence that he was powerful. No doubt. But he's not important and never was. He was a plot device for the sake of the development of Kylo Ren. He was in The Force Awakens for about three minutes, all as a hologram.

 

[Buster Bluth]

You're describing evidence that he was powerful. No doubt. But he's not important and never was. He was a plot device for the sake of the development of Kylo Ren. He was in The Force Awakens for about three minutes, all as a hologram.

...that's why is was lazy writing.

 

[wizards8507]

...that's why is was lazy writing.

What the hell are you talking about? Snoke is essentially the Wicked Witch of the East, Uncle Ben, or Vito Corleone. You know they killed Vito Corleone halfway through the FIRST film of a trilogy right? Fucking outrage.

 

[Buster Bluth]

What the hell are you talking about? Snoke is essentially the Wicked Witch of the East, Uncle Ben, or Vito Corleone. You know they killed Vito Corleone halfway through the FIRST film of a trilogy right? Fucking outrage.

Imagine if they inserted Vito Corleone 2.0 into the third movie and said "he's the baddest dude now, just go with it, it moves the plot along"....all Godfather fans would be wondering who the hell he is that made him the big dog.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Snoke is essentially the Wicked Witch of the East, Uncle Ben, or Vito Corleone.

This actually hurt my brain.

 

[GATTACA!]

...that's why is was lazy writing.

So they should have showed a character who wasn't important to the overall story more?

People were expecting Palpatine 2.0 and are disappointed that's not what they got.

 

[Cackalacky]

Interested your thoughts on this. This is a really good take IMO and exhos much of my posts herein. I thought TLJ was brilliant though I could not adequately assess my reasons why. This put much of my uncertainty into perspective.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VbHUJEH-ERI" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[greyhammer90]

Just saw it. It was insanely difficult but I waited for a few weeks so I didn't have to sit next to some f*cking twit who claps when he sees a lightsaber. Also didn't watch any trailers or TV spots for it minus what I would see on accident in the first few seconds of a commercial. Went in pretty much completely blind. Didn't know any major plot, location, or set pieces.

My review : Totally uneven script with some of the worst cheese of the series. Every scene with Leia is painfully dumb and poorly acted. Didn't matter. I cried by myself in a big empty theatre. Loved it. Loved it so f*cking much.

 

[Domina Nostra]

So they should have showed a character who wasn't important to the overall story more?

People were expecting Palpatine 2.0 and are disappointed that's not what they got.

Personally, I thought his role in the story was hokey.

They made his vast powers a major driver of both movies, and then had him killed in what I considered a really unsatisfying way.

Palpatine has very little role in the original trilogy, but he was built up to be the end all and be all. So he had to have a fitting ending. He got taken down in a very satisfying way- betrayed by Vader who sacrificed himself to save his son. Vader payed the ultimate price to kill the Emperor.

I wished we had more Darth Maul in the first trilogy, but he died killing a Jedi master and ultimately lost to Kenobi in an epic fight.

If they had knocked Snoke out of the plot in a more imaginative way, l could agree with you all. But it seemed like a lot of build up to be killed so easily. I agree with Buster. I thought the little Jedi trick was lazy writing.

 

[Cackalacky]

What? No we didn't!

- He was the clear head of the first order and projected himself as a giant like the Emperor.
- He built a bigger Death Star and seemed to have limitless resources.
- Kylo Ren and everyone bad were terrified of him.
- Leah and Han specifically acknowledged that he corrupted their son, leading to his betrayal of Luke.
- He tossed around Hux via cell phone.
- Like acknowledged that he somehow turned his pupil despite his best efforts.
- He absolutely toyed with Kylo and Rey, both from a distance and in their presence, demonstrating a Yoda/Palestine mastery of the force.

... then, after decades of badassery, he got killed by KR, not while he was distracted, but while he was actually reading KR's mind and explaining what KR was currently thinking (which he was wrong about- you can't secretly will something in your own head).

Watch the video I posted above and let me know your thoughts then. I 100% agree with wiz. Snoke was built up by the fans.

 

[Cackalacky]

Imagine if they inserted Vito Corleone 2.0 into the third movie and said "he's the baddest dude now, just go with it, it moves the plot along"....all Godfather fans would be wondering who the hell he is that made him the big dog.

Andy Garcia

 

[Cackalacky]

...that's why is was lazy writing.

Was the Empeor in ESB and ROTJ lazy writing too? Prior to the prequels the Emperor was a throw away character with no backstory.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Watch the video I posted above and let me know your thoughts then. I 100% agree with wiz. Snoke was built up by the fans.

Was the Empeor in ESB and ROTJ lazy writing too? Prior to the prequels the Emperor was a throw away character with no backstory.

But, as I said a couple posts above, the Emperor was sent out in a manner that befitted him. He was unexpectedly betrayed and killed Vader in the process. It didn’t seem like a throw away to me. Smokes death cost Kylo and Rey nothing.

 

[Cackalacky]

But, as I said a couple posts above, the Emperor was sent out in a manner that befitted him. He was unexpectedly betrayed and killed Vader in the process. It didn’t seem like a throw away to me. Smokes death cost Kylo and Rey nothing.

Did you watch the video, just curious. It makes a great set of points IMO about Snoke about this very discussion. Was snoke not unexpectedly betrayed by Kylo? Maybe he was. Maybe he wasnt. The ambiguous discussion (btw them) about turning the lightsaber casts doubt on what was really going on.

What did Kylo gain by killing him? What does the Resistance gain or lose by his death? You dont know what the cost or gain to anyone of them is yet. Only in retrospect can we conclude these things. I gaurantee you in the moment no one was ever this upset over The Emperor's (not Palpatine) "character" in the OT, or better yet, in 30 seconds of ESB and 30 minutes of RoTJ.

Nerd Alert:
My bet is that we get a cartoon series or books that goes into more details about Snokes past. With as much fan outrage as this has caused Disney would be dumb not to do something outside of the movies.

 

[Cackalacky]

[Snoke was a humanoid alien who was leader of the Attendants, a retinue composed of mute alien navigators who originated from the Unknown Regions. At some unspecified point in his life, Snoke acquired a black obsidian stone from the catacombs and mines beneath the castle of the Sith Lord Darth Vader on the planet Mustafar. He affixed this stone to a golden ring he wore, which was engraved with glyphs used by the Four Sages of Dwartii,[7] controversial figures of philosophy that dated back to the early days of the Galactic Republic.[10]
Eventually, Snoke witnessed the rise and eventual fall of the Galactic Empire.[1] What was left of the Galactic Empire fled to the Unknown Regions and took the shape of what eventually became the First Order. Although most of the Imperial officers would have likely perished while crossing this uncharted realm, the ancient hyperspace trails blazed by Snoke's retinue helped them to stay there and organize themselves. Although he was a powerful practitioner of the dark side of the Force, Snoke was not affiliated with the Sith,[7] which became extinct as a result of the deaths of Darth Sidious and Vader at the Death Star II thanks to the efforts of the Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker.[11] As such, Snoke, a master of the Force, was a seeker of arcane lore.[12]

-wookiepedia

The Attendants were a retinue of alien navigators led by the Supreme Leader Snoke. It was composed of mute alien navigators who originated from the Unknown Regions. Following the fall of the Galactic Empire at Jakku, what was left of the Empire fled to the Unknown Regions in order to escape from the New Republic and plan their revenge. Although most of the surviving Imperial officers would have likely died while crossing the uncharted Regions, the ancient hyperspace trails blazed by the Attendants helped them to stay there, where they took the shape of what eventually became the First Order.[1] They were present aboard Snoke's flagship the Supremacy at the time of the attack on the Resistance fleet in 34 ABY, where they designed and operated the oculus viewing scope in Snoke's throne room.[2]




Behind the scenes


The Attendants appear in the 2017 film Star Wars: Episode VIII The Last Jedi, written and directed by Rian Johnson.

They were based on concept art originally for J.J. Abrams' 2015 film Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens and were considered for Gareth Edwards' 2016 film Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, before being finalized by the Lucasfilm Ltd. artists for The Last Jedi.[3]

This is all we know about Snoke and none if this was relayed verbally in the latest two movies.

 

[SonofOahu]

*Spoilers*

This is fucking amazing:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oFfMN6lPnlA" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Domina Nostra]

Did you watch the video, just curious. It makes a great set of points IMO about Snoke about this very discussion. Was snoke not unexpectedly betrayed by Kylo? Maybe he was. Maybe he wasnt. The ambiguous discussion (btw them) about turning the lightsaber casts doubt on what was really going on.

What did Kylo gain by killing him? What does the Resistance gain or lose by his death? You dont know what the cost or gain to anyone of them is yet. Only in retrospect can we conclude these things. I gaurantee you in the moment no one was ever this upset over The Emperor's (not Palpatine) "character" in the OT, or better yet, in 30 seconds of ESB and 30 minutes of RoTJ.

Nerd Alert:
My bet is that we get a cartoon series or books that goes into more details about Snokes past. With as much fan outrage as this has caused Disney would be dumb not to do something outside of the movies.

That video certainly provided a number of sensible reasons why RJ did certain things. It illustrates why it would be difficult to, say, fire him for cause. But just because a decision is rationally defensible, doesn't mean its good. I personally think the movie fails as a SW film--not that RJ is irrational or that the movie is indiscernible..

I get that fans can blow characters out of proportion. Fans made Bobba Fett into a huge deal, and his apparent demise is pretty unsatisfying for some. But the story had nothing to do with Bobba Fett being amazing. His death was silly, but it didn't matter.

But that was not the case for the Emperor. It didn't matter that he had relatively little screen time or discussion. In the original trilogy, the central themes of Darth Vader being seduced to the dark side, his being overwhelmed by its power, his willingly submitting to some personality despite his own massive power, his approaching his son secretly to try to form an alliance, and his ultimate willingness to hand his son over once it became clear that he wouldn't join him, was all built around the mythos of the Emperor. So, again, it was fitting that that level of evil and power could only be stopped at the cost of Vader's own life. There was symmetry, which is important in this type of story-- "monomyth"-based fantasy.

It is, of course, possible that LucasFilm has some incredible way of tying this all together that will make us say, "wow, that was amazing. they were right." Or maybe there will be long term consequences that we see play out, or something like that. But, to me at least, Snoke's death seemed to lack symmetry with the story.

Moreover, I really doubt they will have some massive payoff in store. I think the much more likely reality is that they, like many here, were working under the assumption that Snoke was a relatively minor character and that he could be killed off to nudge Kylo Ren's story along without much impact on the plot. I just think they were wrong, and they left themselves with a story that many don't find nearly as compelling.