All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[gkIrish]

By the way Rey is the one who says her parents are nobody, not Kylo. So I guess that's that.

 

[IrishLion]

Also, RE the kamikaze thing...

You could kamikaze an X-wing into a Star Destroyer, but it’s not going to have the same effect as sending one of your largest ships into another, larger ship. It would be a minor bother for a dreadnaught if an X-wing impacted on its surface, even from hyperspace.

And there aren’t enough large ships in the Resistance to justify wasting them on reckless kamikaze dares every time they’re backed into a corner. You need those large ships to sustain your movement. It only made sense this one time, because the ship was dead in the water and beyond all hope.

 

[wizards8507]

Also, RE the kamikaze thing...

You could kamikaze an X-wing into a Star Destroyer, but it’s not going to have the same effect as sending one of your largest ships into another, larger ship. It would be a minor bother for a dreadnaught if an X-wing impacted on its surface, even from hyperspace.

And there aren’t enough large ships in the Resistance to justify wasting them on reckless kamikaze dares every time they’re backed into a corner. You need those large ships to sustain your movement. It only made sense this one time, because the ship was dead in the water and beyond all hope.

I was just coming back to say this exact thing. An X-wing lightspeeding into the Death Star isn't going to shred the Death Star. It's going to dent the Death Star and blow your X-wing to shit.

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[wizards8507]

By the way Rey is the one who says her parents are nobody, not Kylo. So I guess that's that.

Yeah I saw one of those "Rian Johnson shows up at a random Hollywood theater and does Q&A" and it's pretty settled.

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[zelezo vlk]

Yeah I saw one of those "Rian Johnson shows up at a random Hollywood theater and does Q&A" and it's pretty settled.

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Rey's parents being somebody does not fit with the theme of "forget the past, it's not important"

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[gkIrish]

I was just coming back to say this exact thing. An X-wing lightspeeding into the Death Star isn't going to shred the Death Star. It's going to dent the Death Star and blow your X-wing to shit.

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Also, RE the kamikaze thing...

You could kamikaze an X-wing into a Star Destroyer, but it’s not going to have the same effect as sending one of your largest ships into another, larger ship. It would be a minor bother for a dreadnaught if an X-wing impacted on its surface, even from hyperspace.

And there aren’t enough large ships in the Resistance to justify wasting them on reckless kamikaze dares every time they’re backed into a corner. You need those large ships to sustain your movement. It only made sense this one time, because the ship was dead in the water and beyond all hope.

You guys have grad degrees in lightspeed physics?

 

[GATTACA!]

By the way Rey is the one who says her parents are nobody, not Kylo. So I guess that's that.

That's a good point. He just kinda says you've known it all along blah blah, basically leaving it open for her to fill in the blank of whatever her greatest fear for them would be. Then he can just run with whatever she had said.

You guys have grad degrees in lightspeed physics?

 

[IrishLion]

You guys have grad degrees in lightspeed physics?

No, just a basic understanding of mass and velocity, and how something with low enough mass hitting something with much, much greater mass isn't going to be totally catastrophic, regardless of velocity.

It would be like a rail gun on steroids, sure, but an X-wing is so tiny compared to the Death Star (or even a Dreadnaught) that it's going to cause some damage, but not in a debilitating fashion.

 

[wizards8507]

Rey's parents being somebody does not fit with the theme of "forget the past, it's not important"

That's Kylo's theme, not the theme of the film.

You guys have grad degrees in lightspeed physics?

Seriously though. Drive a car into a small house at 1,000 MPH and you destroy the house. Chuck a Hot Wheels car at small house at 1,000 MPH and the house will be mostly fine.

 

[gkIrish]

So why couldn't they just line up their biggest ship and goodbye Death Star? Who said it had to be an XWing?

Oh and by the way, the whole suicide notion is silly because we know Droids can fly planes.

 

[IrishLax]

You guys ever take a physics class? F=ma, And kinetic energy=1/2mv^2.

A small object traveling at light speed would still do a fuck ton of damage albeit proportionally less than the larger mass object. Regardless, the way hyperspeed and hyperspace have always been established its not actually "lightspeed" it's traveling in entirely different space altogether. Otherwise hitting even a small rock at "light speed" would destroy any ship.

 

[Rack Em]

You guys ever take a physics class? F=ma, And kinetic energy=1/2mv^2.

A small object traveling at light speed would still do a fuck ton of damage albeit proportionally less than the larger mass object. Regardless, the way hyperspeed and hyperspace have always been established its not actually "lightspeed" it's traveling in entirely different space altogether. Otherwise hitting even a small rock at "light speed" would destroy any ship.

 

[IrishLax]

But the kamikaze was a hyperjump. So they had at least enough for one more. I believe the henchmen reporting to Hux says that based on his calculations/estimates. So they probably didn't know for sure exactly how much fuel they had left.

They ensured the Resistance fleet couldn't escape by leaving open the risk of an extremely unlikely kamikaze attack.

That's my point, they had enough for one more and that was it. That's what the FO knew and what the Resistance people established (plus they saw all the other ships one by one run out of fuel). So if you know they can't make multiple jumps AND you can track them to wherever that last jump would be why would have every single ship turn off their interdiction fields or whatever.

 

[ulukinatme]

Empire Strikes Back, Captain Needa: "No ship that small has a cloaking device."

Tarkin's personal ship, the Carrion Spike, had some dope cloaking.

In Rogue One, one of the projects in the Imperial archives is cloaking research.

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Yes, cloaking technology existed to an extent in the past, but it sure seems far more prevalent in the current timeline. My argument isn't so much to do with cloaking itself though...it has more to do with the fact that the First Order went "Durrrr" for 18 hours during the slowest space chase ever and never even bothered to use their descanning tech until they were tipped off to the Rebel's plot. If you ask me, in a universe where cloaking technology seems pretty common now, I would be using that descanning device from minute one that you engage an enemy, but that's just me.

Not only that, but you're telling me in 18 hours of chasing the Rebel ship couldn't pull away a little from the First Order, nor could the First Order gain any ground? They were both the EXACT same speed for an entire 18 HOURS?! Inconceivable. I guess all sub-light engines top out at 5,000 kmh, no matter what ship they're outfitted on...unless of course it's the Falcon trying to escape the older model Star Destroyers, cause the Falcon was losing ground until it went into hyperspace. I guess either the Star Destroyers have slowed down as technology has improved, or the Rebel Frigates and Cruisers are faster than the Falcon?

What I'm saying is the whole stealth plot and the space chase in general was kind of stupid writing and didn't make a lot of sense. I still very much enjoyed the movie, but the more I think about some of this shit, the more I question what the thought process was.

 

[zelezo vlk]

That's Kylo's theme, not the theme of the film.

Nah. Hence why Finn isn't just some "traitor", he's a Rebel scum. Or why the plan didn't involve Po being reckless in an X wing. Or why Yoda force lightning'd some tree that was important a long time ago. Or why Luke got over his past deficiencies to save the Resistance. Or why Snoke was killed.

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[Cackalacky]

You guys ever take a physics class? F=ma, And kinetic energy=1/2mv^2.

A small object traveling at light speed would still do a fuck ton of damage albeit proportionally less than the larger mass object. Regardless, the way hyperspeed and hyperspace have always been established its not actually "lightspeed" it's traveling in entirely different space altogether. Otherwise hitting even a small rock at "light speed" would destroy any ship.

LOL. How does anyone in this universe have real time conversations across whole galaxy distances in everyone of the movies? How do all these people traveling in hyper space never age according to relativity? Haha.

Yall are gonna kill your selves trying to rationalize this stuff.

And actually, in real physics, as a mass is accelerated to the speed of light.... it is a relativistic mass which does carry energy momentum that behaves in space time. All of the rest mass is essentially kinetic energy at light speed so it has very little or near zero real "mass" when travelling that fast. Not sure even a massive object would casue damage at light speed as it would have very little "mass" energy like a projectile but more kinetic/relatavisitc energy like a laser.


From wookiepedia

When moving at speeds many times the speed of light, there were many dangers. While any collision or interference at this state can be potentially fatal, the effects of gravitational pull on a starship could be particularly devastating, thus a course had to be plotted outside the "mass shadow" or gravity well of large celestial bodies. This was exploited in many ways through the ages. Hyperspace courses were often plotted using a planet's mass as a backstop, with the hyperdrive's safety systems automatically stopping the ship as it reached the farthest point of possible travel.

Hyperspace collisions, whether they be intentional or by accident, could devastate or even destroy a planet. Considering the fact that the output of the reactors of many Capital ships rivaled or eclipsed that of a star, and that the energies needed to make hyperspace travel possible were vast, one could unleash a great deal of destructive power on a target. Even if a planet had its planetary shielding up at the time of a hyperspace collision, it could still have the potential to kill millions on a world such as Coruscant just due to the fallout.[4] One of the more famous hyperspace accidents occurred during the Clone Wars, when the battlecruiser Quaestor collided with the Separatist planet Pammant, fracturing it to its core.[5]

Gravity generators could be used to create an artificial interdiction field which stopped hyperspace travel in a particular area by mimicking the outer fringes of a celestial body's gravity, useful for both pulling ships out of hyperspace en route and preventing enemies from escaping to lightspeed during engagement. Less affluent groups, such as pirates, dragged large asteroids (or planetoids) into trade routes in lieu of the generator or starship method, providing them with both a means to stop shipping and a temporary base or shield against hostile fire.

Black holes were a constant menace. At least a few vessels each year were destroyed by the several "wandering" black holes in real space. Their near infinite gravity wells could be catastrophic to craft that passed too close.

Outside the bounds of a vessel's shielding, hyperspace itself was a lethal environment to any realspace species. Being blown out of the airlock of a vessel while in hyperspace was a more effective way to kill an individual than exposing that individual to the vacuum of realspace. An individual could survive in an escape pod ejected in hyperspace, but if the pod lacked a hyperdrive of its own, reversion to realspace would be impossible.[6]

Even staring at hyperspace from the observation deck of a starship for a prolonged amount of time could produce "hyper-rapture", a form of madness, in a being, or so the legends stated. As there was something fundamentally wrong with viewing the higher-dimensional universe, standard Imperial operating procedure was to keep the transparisteel opaqued during travel through hyperspace.[7] However, Darth Vader enjoyed staring at the kaleidoscopic and swirling patterns of light,[7] and Cronal found it soothing to stare into what he thought of as the emptiness outside the universe.[8]

When a jump was attempted utilizing a damaged hyperdrive, a starship could be stuck in a "crossroad" of space: halfway into hyperspace, and half in realspace. An example of this was the Sith dreadnaught Harbinger. The unfortunate ship, after some quick thinking by the ship's captain, Saes Rrogon, was propelled 5,000 years into the future, to the time of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Order.

 

[IrishLion]

So why couldn't they just line up their biggest ship and goodbye Death Star? Who said it had to be an XWing?

Oh and by the way, the whole suicide notion is silly because we know Droids can fly planes.

As I said before, you can't just sacrifice your biggest ships all willy-nilly. Those ships are the life support of the rebellion and the Resistance. Losing one is catastrophic, even if it results in a meaningful victory, because the enemy still has you far outgunned and outmanned. The risk =/= the reward, IMO.

You guys ever take a physics class? F=ma, And kinetic energy=1/2mv^2.

A small object traveling at light speed would still do a fuck ton of damage albeit proportionally less than the larger mass object. Regardless, the way hyperspeed and hyperspace have always been established its not actually "lightspeed" it's traveling in entirely different space altogether. Otherwise hitting even a small rock at "light speed" would destroy any ship.

No, my brain isn't a numbers brain, it's a words brain. I sucked at anything beyond basic algebra.

And before you school us further, I'm gonna bow out of the "Kamikaze Physics" debate, because I think a debate about a small aspect of a fictional universe, which has so much unbelievable technology in the first place, is borderline useless.

If we're debating the physics of ramming certain objects into other objects from hyperspace, then we should probably debate the physics of lightsabers and whether or not the explanation as to why they are a looping field of energy, rather than a continuous laser beam, makes any sense.

 

[wizards8507]

So why couldn't they just line up their biggest ship and goodbye Death Star? Who said it had to be an XWing?

The ship Holdo crashed was bigger than any ship the rebels had at the Battle of Yavin. And the Death Star was WAY bigger than the Supremacy.

Not to mention the fact that the Imperial fleet was way bigger than just the Death Star. Losing a capital ship would have been too much of a loss for the Alliance. The only reason it made sense in TLJ is because their goal wasn't to win the war, it was just to escape.

Oh and by the way, the whole suicide notion is silly because we know Droids can fly planes.

The sentience of droids is a debated topic.

 

[wizards8507]

LOL. How does anyone in this universe have real time conversations across whole galaxy distances in everyone of the movies? How do all these people traveling in hyper space never age according to relativity? Haha.

Yall are gonna kill your selves trying to rationalize this stuff.

Star Wars isn't hard SF, it's space fantasy.

Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness

 

[gkIrish]

As I said before, you can't just sacrifice your biggest ships all willy-nilly. Those ships are the life support of the rebellion and the Resistance. Losing one is catastrophic, even if it results in a meaningful victory, because the enemy still has you far outgunned and outmanned. The risk =/= the reward, IMO..

You can definitely sacrifice your biggest ship to destroy the Death Star. That's not even debateable IMO. They lost huge ships in ROTJ that I'm sure would have destroyed the second Death Star.

The fact that we are even discussing this stupid stupid stupid topic is Rian Johnson's fault.

 

[IrishLion]

You can definitely sacrifice your biggest ship to destroy the Death Star. That's not even debateable IMO. They lost huge ships in ROTJ that I'm sure would have destroyed the second Death Star.

The fact that we are even discussing this stupid stupid stupid topic is Rian Johnson's fault.

OR it's because you feel the need to debate one of the unrealistic things about a galaxy and movie series full of them lol.

EDIT: This is not meant to be combative about the fact that you want to debate certain things. Just pointing out the amusement at a bunch of nerds on a football message board putting so much thought into a movie together.

 

[GATTACA!]

So why couldn't they just line up their biggest ship and goodbye Death Star? Who said it had to be an XWing?

Oh and by the way, the whole suicide notion is silly because we know Droids can fly planes.

Because it's not possible. See post #1590.

 

[gkIrish]

The ship Holdo crashed was bigger than any ship the rebels had at the Battle of Yavin. And the Death Star was WAY bigger than the Supremacy.

Not to mention the fact that the Imperial fleet was way bigger than just the Death Star. Losing a capital ship would have been too much of a loss for the Alliance. The only reason it made sense in TLJ is because their goal wasn't to win the war, it was just to escape.


The sentience of droids is a debated topic.

I'm pretty sure you and the rest of your posse could accept a Droid running a basic preprogrammed command to do one thing (jump to lightspeed in a straight line) considering all the stuff you guys are cool with believing in this movie.

 

[Cackalacky]

Star Wars isn't hard SF, it's space fantasy.

Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness

I get it. That is my point. It isnt real science fiction. Its on par with LOTR.

 

[Cackalacky]

 

[wizards8507]

You can definitely sacrifice your biggest ship to destroy the Death Star. That's not even debateable IMO. They lost huge ships in ROTJ that I'm sure would have destroyed the second Death Star.

The fact that we are even discussing this stupid stupid stupid topic is Rian Johnson's fault.

Sometimes they blow shit up because it looks cool.

 

[gkIrish]

Because it's not possible. See post #1590.

Then I'll be that guy who says then why the fuck is this not explained in the movie? If I need to go buy a book to tell me why something is not possible, that's BS.

 

[IrishLion]

Then I'll be that guy who says then why the fuck is this not explained in the movie? If I need to go buy a book to tell me why something is not possible, that's BS.

Why are lightsabers not explained? Why isn't it explained that certain small personal transports hover over the ground even though they aren't running? Why can Kylo Ren stop a blaster bolt in mid air? Why do some shields act as solid entities, while others are invisible and allow solid objects to pass through? Why is the Death Star protected by a rounded field, while all other shields lead us to believe that only straight lines are possible?

 

[wizards8507]

Then I'll be that guy who says then why the fuck is this not explained in the movie? If I need to go buy a book to tell me why something is not possible, that's BS.

Star Wars tried doing deep exposition in the films. It was called "the Republic Senate" and everyone hated it.

 

[IrishLion]

Why is the milk blue?
What is Beggar's Canyon? Why does that translate to Luke being a great X-wing Pilot?
Why is the emperor so powerful?
Why does Vader sound like James Earl Jones?
Why does Vader Force-choke one guy, but physically choke other guys?