All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[Domina Nostra]

It seems to be common Force-knowledge. When Kylo and Rey Force-connected (which I see as an extension of the same Force-ability), Kylo said something along the lines of "who is controlling this? It can't be you, Rey, because the effort would kill you."

RJ just changed so much crap along the way, I lose track.

How did Ray know all those sword fighting forms?

 

[gkIrish]

That's because you see things so clearly! Everyone fits neatly into a category.

I had no problem with the The Force Awakens, or Rogue One, both of which had female lead heroes. I loved them both. Ray and Jyn are great characters. Leah from the original series is also a great character (not so much anymore).

This movie was driven by a guy who had no attention to detail, and forced certain themes into the story at the expense of the plot. The feminist stuff was one of them. And, to me, it explains the Purple Lady.

Another example is the casino planet full of arms dealers that they trampled with a herd of space horses and then said, it was worth it. Nonsensical.

I picture a Family Guy spoof where they are like Admiral Ackbar is dead! Leia is unconscious! So we present to you.........LAURA DERN. *applause*

 

[wizards8507]

How did Ray know all those sword fighting forms?

This one is pretty easy to dismiss. Rey is good at melee combat from her time on Jakku beating Teedos with her staff. Exactly the same as Luke, who is an ace X-wing pilot from his time on Tatooine shooting womp rats in his T-16 skyhopper. I'd argue that staff-to-lightsaber is an easier transition than skyhopper-to-X-wing / atmosphere-to-space.

Fun fact about Teedos. They make no distinction between their species and their individuals. They are all just Teedo.

 

[gkIrish]

Alright I am about to go watch it again. I'll try to keep an open mind. Check back later nerds.

 

[wizards8507]

Alright I am about to go watch it again. I'll try to keep an open mind. Check back later nerds.

The Force will be with you. Always.

 

[Domina Nostra]

This one is pretty easy to dismiss. Rey is good at melee combat from her time on Jakku beating Teedos with her staff. Exactly the same as Luke, who is an ace X-wing pilot from his time on Tatooine shooting womp rats in his T-16 skyhopper. I'd argue that staff-to-lightsaber is an easier transition than skyhopper-to-X-wing / atmosphere-to-space.

Fun fact about Teedos. They make no distinction between their species and their individuals. They are all just Teedo.

I don't know. I thought they did a good job in the first one making her look like she was effective (due to perfect instincts), but untrained.

When you see the previews for the movie, you figure she's gotten trained when she is doing the tai chi stuff, but she never gets training.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I picture a Family Guy spoof where they are like Admiral Ackbar is dead! Leia is unconscious! So we present to you.........LAURA DERN. *applause*

Hahaha!

And to defend my honor again, the Phantom Menace had an embarrassing amount of racial stereo-types in it: goofy rasta-men, chinese trade federation, cheap Jewish merchant... I've called that out too. I didn't think it made GL a racists, but it was lazy and embarrassing.

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/KristianHarloff?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KristianHarloff</a> <a href="https://t.co/zk7OlxPlyv">pic.twitter.com/zk7OlxPlyv</a></p>— Chris Seaver (@1980sRevolution) <a href="https://twitter.com/1980sRevolution/status/943123815974014977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[GATTACA!]

Alright I am about to go watch it again. I'll try to keep an open mind. Check back later nerds.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

She's not flying genius. Outer space, i.e. no gravity and no friction. You could literally fart in space and do the exact same thing she did.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Bash it as a story element all you want, but it's blowing my mind that people are actually questioning if she would have been able to do it. That's probably the all time easiest thing anyone has used the force to do in Star Wars. If your powers are strong enough to pick up a pen you're more than capable of pulling off what she did.

Lol who gives a crap if it's "difficult". I don't care if Yoda himself had done it, it was freaking absurd


As for the result of it:

They should have had her die right there, adding to Kylo's guilt,

Or

Have him not pull the trigger, nor his wingmen, and she just does everything the purple hair lady did for the rest of the movie, eliminating (one of many) unnecessary character.

 

[GATTACA!]

Lol who gives a crap if it's "difficult". I don't care if Yoda himself had done it, it was freaking absurd


As for the result of it:

They should have had her die right there, adding to Kylo's guilt,

Or

Have him not pull the trigger, nor his wingmen, and she just does everything the purple hair lady did for the rest of the movie, eliminating (one of many) unnecessary character.

Did you even read what I wrote? I specifically said bash it as a story element all you want. Whether or not you think it was stupid it was 100% achievable within the rules of this universe, which was the only thing I was arguing.

 

[gkIrish]

Was better overall the second time around. Some things didn't bother me as much (i.e. the Hux humor at the beginning and the milking scene) but other things bothered me that didn't before (i.e. this entire Force projection thing that Luke does).

I truly despise every scene with Holdo and the entire Resistance takes stupid pills the entire movie. I can elaborate on this more tomorrow. I also dislike almost everything with Rose and the love angle they introduce at the end was not built up at all so it seemed so random. I also paid careful attention to every lightsaber scene and lightsabers literally turn off automatically every time someone let's go of it so the whole Snoke death really bothers me.

Things I liked more include Benicio Del Toro's character who I think will play a bigger role in the next movie, Kylo and Rey (even more than before) and the Porgs.

Two things I noticed this time around that I didn't before were

1) Luke doesn't shift the salt around on the ground at the end which is a giveaway that he is a projection.
2) Yet somehow he gives Leia Han's dice which Kylo later picks up. They proceed to vanish. I really don't understand how this is possible at all.

Finally, the Leia near death scene is just the worst thing ever. What makes it even worse is that there is this huge battle going on but Poe, Finn, and another person are just staring out the window watching her come back to the ship. None of it makes any sense. Leia didn't need to be in the rest of this movie. Should have just cut all her scenes out.

All that being said that movie fit together much better as a whole for me so I'd give it maybe a B on second viewing. I was surprised that it was fairly rewatchable. The moment after Kylo kills Snoke and Rey snatches the blue lightsaber out of the air is an all time great Star Wars moment. I really think they dropped the ball on the final battle though and just everything with the Resistance is stupid and makes me angry. Could have been so much better if they fixed all that because the rest is pretty good.

 

[GATTACA!]

I also paid careful attention to every lightsaber scene and lightsabers literally turn off automatically every time someone let's go of it so the whole Snoke death really bothers me.

I don't understand how that matters? If your finger is on the button the saber is on, Kylo used the force instead of his finger to turn it on.

2) Yet somehow he gives Leia Han's dice which Kylo later picks up. They proceed to vanish. I really don't understand how this is possible at all.

Kylo and Rey hold hands during a projection so some physical interaction is possible. Kylo also gets wet during the one when Rey in standing in the rain.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

.
2) Yet somehow he gives Leia Han's dice which Kylo later picks up. They proceed to vanish. I really don't understand how this is possible at all.

The dice were a part of Luke’s force projection, no?

 

[gkIrish]

I don't understand how that matters? If your finger is on the button the saber is on, Kylo used the force instead of his finger to turn it on.



Kylo and Rey hold hands during a projection so some physical interaction is possible. Kylo also gets wet during the one when Rey in standing in the rain.

It matters because it really makes me question every single lightsaber fight now.

It's hard to explain but it seems more "magic" than Force to me. The whole protection thing is very weird and there are contradictory things about it. Like Kylo tells Rey that he can only see her but then a minute later he can see Luke too. And if Snoke can cause this projection thing he can probably see where Rey is so I don't get why he needed to bait her into anything. It's just sloppily explained and illogical.

 

[GATTACA!]

It matters because it really makes me question every single lightsaber fight now.

Why? I genuinely don't understand what you're getting at.

It's hard to explain but it seems more "magic" than Force to me. The whole protection thing is very weird and there are contradictory things about it. Like Kylo tells Rey that he can only see her but then a minute later he can see Luke too.

I took it as Kylo being able to see only her because that's who Snoke was focused on, then Luke called Rey's name, Snoke hears him and then Kylo could see him after Snoke is aware of his presence.

And if Snoke can cause this projection thing he can probably see where Rey is so I don't get why he needed to bait her into anything. It's just sloppily explained and illogical.

Idk because that's not how the power works? It's not GPS and hadn't been shown to work in that way. Not sure why you would question why the power can't work in some other way we haven't seen that would be more convenient to the plot. You could sit and do that with any force related power.

 

[IrishLax]

Just watched it. Not going to read through entire thread, sure much of this has been posted.

-Purple hair lady dumb AF as was everything in the plot surrounding her. Poe being turned sexist "not what I was expecting" line was eye roll inducing. Light speed through ship doesn't even make sense.
-Leia should have died that was even dumber than purple hair lady.
-Bombs fall in space?

Everything else about the movie was either good or tolerable IMO. Loved the scene with Chewbacca and the little guys when he's about to eat the chicken (or chicken equivalent). Those little guys were fucking hilarious. First Star Wars film since Empire where you can't predict literally every plot point with half a brain... Snoke getting killed with no build up after displaying force supremacy was awesome. Thought Finn was a goner at end. Luke projection thing was fun. Etc.

I need to buy like ten of those Ewok-penguins

Overall solid B. Good, but not mind blowing or anything like that.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Just watched it. Not going to read through entire thread, sure much of this has been posted.

-Purple hair lady dumb AF as was everything in the plot surrounding her. Poe being turned sexist "not what I was expecting" line was eye roll inducing. Light speed through ship doesn't even make sense.
-Leia should have died that was even dumber than purple hair lady.
-Bombs fall in space?

Everything else about the movie was either good or tolerable IMO. Loved the scene with Chewbacca and the little guys when he's about to eat the chicken (or chicken equivalent). Those little guys were fucking hilarious. First Star Wars film since Empire where you can't predict literally every plot point with half a brain... Snoke getting killed with no build up after displaying force supremacy was awesome. Thought Finn was a goner at end. Luke projection thing was fun. Etc.

I need to buy like ten of those Ewok-penguins

Overall solid B. Good, but not mind blowing or anything like that.

What doesn't make sense about the light speed kamikaze?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[IrishLax]

What doesn't make sense about the light speed kamikaze?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Literally any of it. All you would do is take a small ship and light speed at a bigger ship (or death star) and win every battle. It literally breaks the entire Star Wars universe.

 

[IrishLax]

Also, if I remember "jumping to hyperspace" correctly from other films it was at least strongly implied that while in hyperspace you don't interact with shit outside of hyperspace... because traveling at "light speed" hitting any kind of debris or even speck of dust would destroy your ship. Literally none of it makes sense... but at least the worst character since Jar Jar is dead.

 

[GATTACA!]

Literally any of it. All you would do is take a small ship and light speed at a bigger ship (or death star) and win every battle. It literally breaks the entire Star Wars universe.

My best guess is that it has to do with something called an interdiction field. Very large ships are able to produce a gravity well that prevents other ships from performing hyperspace maneuvers, basically exactly what people are complaining about. The First Order had to have theirs turned off because they needed to be ready to jump and follow the Resistance at a moments notice.

This is all cannon btw.

So no all space battles aren't ruined. The Death Star 100% has an interdiction field to prevent this exact problem. I'm sure Buster or Shamrock Theories will say "Then why didn't they explain any of this in the movie?!".

I got bored just typing it out. They banked on general audiences just accepting the scene for the amazing spectacle that it is and not needing a technical breakdown of how it fits into established cannon technology. They were right. The movie is sitting at what 93% on RT?

 

[IrishLax]

My best guess is that it has to do with something called an interdiction field. Very large ships are able to produce a gravity well that prevents other ships from performing hyperspace maneuvers, basically exactly what people are complaining about. The First Order had to have theirs turned off because they needed to be ready to jump and follow the Resistance at a moments notice.

This is all cannon btw.

So no all space battles aren't ruined. The Death Star 100% has an interdiction field to prevent this exact problem. I'm sure Buster or Shamrock Theories will say "Then why didn't they explain any of this in the movie?!".

I got bored just typing it out. They banked on general audiences just accepting the scene for the amazing spectacle that it is and not needing a technical breakdown of how it fits into established cannon technology. They were right. The movie is sitting at what 93% on RT?

If that's the justification, it's not a good one. The "we have this thing to prevent exactly what happened but turned it off" doesn't make sense because they did not have to be ready to follow them "at a moment's notice." They knew the ship was completely out of fuel, and they knew they could track it to wherever it went and then follow it later.

So the massive plot hole, at minimum, relies on gross incompetence from a team of highly-trained professionals. That's bad.

And the reason it has a 93% on RT is obviously because they said #resist two dozen times (kidding) and also found a way to work in mansplaining (sorta kidding) and Disney buys critics (not kidding). The audience score is quite mediocre.

I liked it. I give it a B, which is above average. Did not think it was anywhere close to Rogue One.

But damn did purple hair SUCK and Leia surviving an exploding bridge and force gliding back from outer-fucking-space might even be worse than hyperspace kamikaze.

 

[GATTACA!]

If that's the justification, it's not a good one. The "we have this thing to prevent exactly what happened but turned it off" doesn't make sense because they did not have to be ready to follow them "at a moment's notice." They knew the ship was completely out of fuel, and they knew they could track it to wherever it went and then follow it later.

So the massive plot hole, at minimum, relies on gross incompetence from a team of highly-trained professionals. That's bad.

And the reason it has a 93% on RT is obviously because they said #resist two dozen times (kidding) and also found a way to work in mansplaining (sorta kidding) and Disney buys critics (not kidding). The audience score is quite mediocre.

I liked it. I give it a B, which is above average. Did not think it was anywhere close to Rogue One.

But damn did purple hair SUCK and Leia surviving an exploding bridge and force gliding back from outer-fucking-space might even be worse than hyperspace kamikaze.

They did have to worry about it because at the beginning I believe it's explained that they have already jumped a few times. The fact that the first order had followed them each time was the tip off. It's not like the First Order followed them they realized they were screwed and didn't jump any more. It's was a reasonable concern that they would do it again.

I assumed that the hyperspace tracking meant that they could tell the destination of where they were jumping to, not that they had tracker fixed on them at all times. So if the Resistance fleet jumps and while the First Order ships are switching their interdiction field off and waiting to follow the Resistance ships jump again would they be able to track that additional jump?

Idk if this is the justification but that was just what I assumed was going on while watching.

 

[IrishLax]

They did have to worry about it because at the beginning I believe it's explained that they have already jumped a few times. The fact that the first order had followed them each time was the tip off. It's not like the First Order followed them they realized they were screwed and didn't jump any more. It's was a reasonable concern that they would do it again.

I assumed that the hyperspace tracking meant that they could tell the destination of where they were jumping to, not that they had tracker fixed on them at all times. So if the Resistance fleet jumps and while the First Order ships are switching their interdiction field off and waiting to follow the Resistance ships jump again would they be able to track that additional jump?

Idk if this is the justification but that was just what I assumed was going on while watching.

But they clearly noted in the movie they didn't have fuel for more than one more jump. This was established, and the First Order said they knew their fuel supplies were depleted. Right?

I agree with what you're saying if they had legitimate reason to be worried about that but the movie established that everyone knew prior to the point of kamikaze that there was no chance that they were going to go hopping around the galaxy.

Anyways, done with work now so I'm going to head to bed and we can pick this up again in the morning. I am at least glad that it doesn't break all space battles as I originally stated.

 

[GATTACA!]

But they clearly noted in the movie they didn't have fuel for more than one more jump. This was established, and the First Order said they knew their fuel supplies were depleted. Right?

I agree with what you're saying if they had legitimate reason to be worried about that but the movie established that everyone knew prior to the point of kamikaze that there was no chance that they were going to go hopping around the galaxy.

Anyways, done with work now so I'm going to head to bed and we can pick this up again in the morning. I am at least glad that it doesn't break all space battles as I originally stated.

But the kamikaze was a hyperjump. So they had at least enough for one more. I believe the henchmen reporting to Hux says that based on his calculations/estimates. So they probably didn't know for sure exactly how much fuel they had left.

They ensured the Resistance fleet couldn't escape by leaving open the risk of an extremely unlikely kamikaze attack.

 

[ulukinatme]

Saw the movie finally. I've read some of the negativity around the interwebz, and I honestly feel like it was much to do about very little. The whole Mary Poppins thing with Leia was a bit much maybe, but when you consider that Jedi can Force Run, Force Jump, and move objects/people with the Force it really isn't that much of a stretch to travel through space.

I honestly didn't find the Casino scene that out of place. I thought it was actually a nice change of pace/location from the ships and space backdrops we were getting a lot of in the movie. If you take the Casino out the background it would have gotten a little stale location-wise. I get that some people have said that it was only used as an excuse to meet their "Alien" quota.

Apparently some people wanted to see Luke go ape shit on the First Order, but I think he went out exactly as a Jedi would have gone out. The diversion and illusion were the most Jedi way he could have saved everyone, no show of power needed and it wouldn't have fit the narrative.

I was shaking my head a bit that they pretty much jobbed Snoke out without any backstory or explanation, a little history there would have been good (But some people apparently are pushing a conspiracy theory that he's still alive and maybe he was projecting himself on the throne there, I don't buy it).

It sure seems like they're setting up Kylo to be turned, or maybe that's what they want us to think. I think the movie would have ended better if Rey had actually turned a bit and gone with Kylo, or maybe leaving her more ambiguous as to what path she takes.

The Porgs, Tribbles, whatever they were weren't' as bad as I thought they would be.

Loved some of the comedy elements of the movie. Not too much I thought, just enough small doses not to hurt. When Rey reaches out for the Force the first time...died laughing! The Poe prank call was excellent too, one of my buddies didn't like it though.

The battles at the end of the movie were awesome. The salt planet was a bit lame, sure felt like a call back to Hoth, but those replacement Snowspeeders were utter crap. Not even capable of atmospheric flight? They should have been shot down as they left the hangar.

Overall I liked the movie I think. I think the stuff people are outraged over is just over the top BS. I thought it was better than Force Awakens, if only because I was expecting them to clone Empire and while there were a few similarities it wasn't nearly as prevalent as New Hope 2.

Biggest disappointment was Rey's parents....IF Kylo wasn't lying to her. Ridley lied to everyone when she said "If you watch Force Awakens it should be obvious who Rey's parents are." Load of crap!

 

[ulukinatme]

Oh, one thing did bug me with the plot...while it was never really prevalent in the original films, Stealth/Cloaking technology appears to have become extremely available to everyone at this point in history. The First Order even has the capability to "descan" for cloaking devices, which they begin to do once they're tipped off to the Rebellion's plan.

However...in a world where one has descanning technology for cloaking, and cloaking is prevalent, wouldn't you think that the First Order would be descanning for cloaked vehicles from the very START of the battle? Instead they wait 17 hours or so into the chase. What if the Rebels would have left the ship 18 hours prior? They would have been long gone...but of course that wouldn't have fit the whole plot. Just made me shake my head that the First Order would have had that tech and not utilized it until 17 hours into the slowest space chase of all time. I guess the whole space chase was kind of stupid on it's own.

 

[wizards8507]

Literally any of it. All you would do is take a small ship and light speed at a bigger ship (or death star) and win every battle. It literally breaks the entire Star Wars universe.

And a willingness to commit suicide. Turns out that flying airplanes into buildings is an effective way to murder people but you don't see it every day, do you.

Also, if I remember "jumping to hyperspace" correctly from other films it was at least strongly implied that while in hyperspace you don't interact with shit outside of hyperspace... because traveling at "light speed" hitting any kind of debris or even speck of dust would destroy your ship. Literally none of it makes sense... but at least the worst character since Jar Jar is dead.

Han Solo: Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

You're right about "real" hyperspace travel in hard SF. Objects in hyperspace wouldn't interact with objects in realspace. But this is consistent in Star Wars.

On you "bombs dropping in space" comment, ships obviously have gravity generators so the crews can walk around on them. It's likely that the generators on a dreadnought are powerful enough to pull things down from a few meters overhead at least.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[wizards8507]

Oh, one thing did bug me with the plot...while it was never really prevalent in the original films, Stealth/Cloaking technology appears to have become extremely available to everyone at this point in history. The First Order even has the capability to "descan" for cloaking devices, which they begin to do once they're tipped off to the Rebellion's plan.

However...in a world where one has descanning technology for cloaking, and cloaking is prevalent, wouldn't you think that the First Order would be descanning for cloaked vehicles from the very START of the battle? Instead they wait 17 hours or so into the chase. What if the Rebels would have left the ship 18 hours prior? They would have been long gone...but of course that wouldn't have fit the whole plot. Just made me shake my head that the First Order would have had that tech and not utilized it until 17 hours into the slowest space chase of all time. I guess the whole space chase was kind of stupid on it's own.

Empire Strikes Back, Captain Needa: "No ship that small has a cloaking device."

Tarkin's personal ship, the Carrion Spike, had some dope cloaking.

In Rogue One, one of the projects in the Imperial archives is cloaking research.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk