All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[zelezo vlk]

I didn't realize that Ackbar was a character that any of you non-sweaties cared about. I assumed most people watched Rogue One thinking that Admiral Raddus was the "it's a trap" guy.

Dude Ackbar is a meme, of course we know who he is

 

[IrishLion]

Ackbar is the Ole Miss mascot guy, right???

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Ok, so how can we move past this bullshit? Luckily, shamrockonhelmet is here for you. I have a couple of possibilities...

1) events of TLJ were all Finns fevered nightmare. He still in a coma and none of this crap really happened. This approach solves a lot of problems, and still lets the casuals have this movie if they want to, while sane people can just forget it ever happened. We just open episode 9 with him coming out of the coma and needing to be talked off the ledge by Rey.

2) if that’s a bridge too far, then we still need to deal with the worst part of the film - how they take a shit on Luke’s legacy. So what if the Luke we see onscreen wasn’t the real Luke? Maybe this was a clone that took Luke’s place when Luke did really disappear. He’d be similar, but not perfect, the way copies of copies always lose resolution. That could explain most of the stupidity in that part of the story. Still doesn’t resolve the rest of the mess, but I could live with it.

 

[Domina Nostra]

They would never do it, but the fever dream thing would be a totally epic slap in Rian Johnson's face. I'd be all for it.

 

[IrishLion]

Why do you think they took a shit on Luke's legacy?

Luke was always kind of an unstable whiner, so I could see how he'd try to restart the Jedi Order and then mess it up because of his own doubts.

 

[gkIrish]

Ok, so how can we move past this bullshit? Luckily, shamrockonhelmet is here for you. I have a couple of possibilities...

1) events of TLJ were all Finns fevered nightmare. He still in a coma and none of this crap really happened. This approach solves a lot of problems, and still lets the casuals have this movie if they want to, while sane people can just forget it ever happened. We just open episode 9 with him coming out of the coma and needing to be talked off the ledge by Rey.

2) if that’s a bridge too far, then we still need to deal with the worst part of the film - how they take a shit on Luke’s legacy. So what if the Luke we see onscreen wasn’t the real Luke? Maybe this was a clone that took Luke’s place when Luke did really disappear. He’d be similar, but not perfect, the way copies of copies always lose resolution. That could explain most of the stupidity in that part of the story. Still doesn’t resolve the rest of the mess, but I could live with it.

An (Asian) Fever Dream. Amirite ACamp?

 

[RDU Irish]

Ok, so how can we move past this bullshit? Luckily, shamrockonhelmet is here for you. I have a couple of possibilities...

1) events of TLJ were all Finns fevered nightmare. He still in a coma and none of this crap really happened. This approach solves a lot of problems, and still lets the casuals have this movie if they want to, while sane people can just forget it ever happened. We just open episode 9 with him coming out of the coma and needing to be talked off the ledge by Rey.

2) if that’s a bridge too far, then we still need to deal with the worst part of the film - how they take a shit on Luke’s legacy. So what if the Luke we see onscreen wasn’t the real Luke? Maybe this was a clone that took Luke’s place when Luke did really disappear. He’d be similar, but not perfect, the way copies of copies always lose resolution. That could explain most of the stupidity in that part of the story. Still doesn’t resolve the rest of the mess, but I could live with it.

So the heart of your disdain is Luke Skywalker not being some perfect hero?

ANH - Luke is a whiny little bitch.
ESB - Luke gets his dumb ass nearly killed in a blizzard and beaten up by a beast he doesn't see coming. Would have died with out Solo. He somehow thinks he can take on Vader and gets his ass kicked needing his friends to bail his ass out for the second time in the movie.
ROTJ - Luke shits his pants scrambling to beat the Banta - not seeing the trap. Handles himself well against some gangsters. Relies on puppy dog eying his daddy to save him and his friends like a teenager at a busted party. He relied on turning Vader to beat the Emperor - he stood no chance on his own.Then his dad is somehow a ghost Jedi despite all the insane killing he did - but that was Vader not Anakin! (but lets not bring up how flawed anything is in the OT)

What did he do exactly to get some insane reputation as the most powerful Jedi ever? He fumbled and bumbled his way through - more lucky than good which is a testament to the Jedi before him more than him.

TLJ - WTF woudl Luke know about training people? He got a crash course himself and self studied (ESB to ROTJ). His first trip to Dagobah was measured in days, not years. Second was to see Yoda die. He is a naive yokel - not some scholar. What exactly did we see to imply Luke was remotely capable of self study? Most Jedi had one apprentice at a time - and he took on training twelve? You know for starters. One of which is his nephew - because the Jedi are so fond of attachments like that.

 

[wizards8507]

Why do you think they took a shit on Luke's legacy?

Luke was always kind of an unstable whiner, so I could see how he'd try to restart the Jedi Order and then mess it up because of his own doubts.

Exactly. It's all the old butthurt EU fans. EU Luke was OPAF.

Luke had shown himself capable of consciously reaching a state of Oneness. He was described as a maelstrom of luminous Force energy, against which there was no shelter. So calm and focused was he that his actions were not interrupted by any thought. Luke merged with the Force to such a degree that the Jedi Master did not seem to be there, physically or as an individual personality. Luke's control over his lightsaber blade was so great that he was said to might as well have been wielding ten, or twenty lightsabers against the Vong.

 

[IrishLion]

Yeah, Luke kind of had "stupid but brave" as his dominating trait.

And it's not really even established that he's a super powerful Jedi at any point in the original trilogy... he just happens to be one of the few known individuals in the galaxy that still has Force sensitivity, since Palpatine/Vader had hunted down and killed all of the others.

Luke is a great pilot, an okay swordsman, and a lousy strategist. His "Force Powers" are never really explained at all, aside from the fact that he trusts the Force when Obi Wan reminds him to, and it works out okay. He can also Force-pull an object if he tries really hard.

EU Luke was OP, as Wiz states, but New-Canon Luke actually has no evidence of any amazing power until the powers we see in "The Last Jedi".... so in a roundabout way, TLJ actually CREATES Luke's powerful legacy with his actions and Force Projection, rather than destroying it or shitting on it.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

So the heart of your disdain is Luke Skywalker not being some perfect hero?

ANH - Luke is a whiny little bitch.
ESB - Luke gets his dumb ass nearly killed in a blizzard and beaten up by a beast he doesn't see coming. Would have died with out Solo. He somehow thinks he can take on Vader and gets his ass kicked needing his friends to bail his ass out for the second time in the movie.
ROTJ - Luke shits his pants scrambling to beat the Banta - not seeing the trap. Handles himself well against some gangsters. Relies on puppy dog eying his daddy to save him and his friends like a teenager at a busted party. He relied on turning Vader to beat the Emperor - he stood no chance on his own.Then his dad is somehow a ghost Jedi despite all the insane killing he did - but that was Vader not Anakin! (but lets not bring up how flawed anything is in the OT)

What did he do exactly to get some insane reputation as the most powerful Jedi ever? He fumbled and bumbled his way through - more lucky than good which is a testament to the Jedi before him more than him.

TLJ - WTF woudl Luke know about training people? He got a crash course himself and self studied (ESB to ROTJ). His first trip to Dagobah was measured in days, not years. Second was to see Yoda die. He is a naive yokel - not some scholar. What exactly did we see to imply Luke was remotely capable of self study? Most Jedi had one apprentice at a time - and he took on training twelve? You know for starters. One of which is his nephew - because the Jedi are so fond of attachments like that.

Sounds like one vote for fever dream

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Yeah, Luke kind of had "stupid but brave" as his dominating trait

I disagree.

His defining character trait is his belief in people. The Emperor himself tells him his faith in his friends is his greatest weakness. He’s compassionate to a fault, he’s the only person in the galaxy that believes darth Vader is redeemable. And through the sheer power of will, he does in fact redeem Vader. And now you want me to believe THAT GUY seriously considers just killing a student because he senses some dark side tendencies. He hasn’t done anything wrong, mind you. Oh, and this is his best friends kid we’re talking about. And his nephew. Nope, just nope. Luke Skywalker wouldn’t behave that way. His legacy has nothing to do with how powerful his force abilities are, but who he is as a person.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Exactly. It's all the old butthurt EU fans. EU Luke was OPAF.

Butt hurt. That's it!

I though Hamill did a great job, but I agree with his own reaction to Rian Johnson's script. He said he fundamentally disagreed with every decision he made for Luke.

Of all people on earth, MH is the least butthurt there is. He just thought RJ was not doing the character justice.

The fact that look snuck into his student's bedroom, at night, with a lightsaber, to read his mind, and almost killed him out of shock, is pretty weak. It's such a strange thing to do and seemed cheap. That, like lots of other stuff in the film, was used as a plot device to help turn the story back to the only thing Rian Johnson was interested in (besides strong women): Ray and Kylo Ren.

So Luke was reduced to a awkward coward in order to make Kylo Ren seem less despicable going forward.

Luke's running away because Jedi ruing everything was also weak (why was there a map again?). His hissy fit where he was going to burn the library was weak. His "I'm sorry but I'm not" speach at the end was also weak.

In the terms you all are using, they took the whiny farm boy from Episode 4, ignored Episode 6, and just played off of that. Weak sauce.

I disagree.

His defining character trait is his belief in people. The Emperor himself tells him his faith in his friends is his greatest weakness. He’s compassionate to a fault, he’s the only person in the galaxy that believes darth Vader is redeemable. And through the sheer power of will, he does in fact redeem Vader. And now you want me to believe THAT GUY seriously considers just killing a student because he senses some dark side tendencies. He hasn’t done anything wrong, mind you. Oh, and this is his best friends kid we’re talking about. And his nephew. Nope, just nope. Luke Skywalker wouldn’t behave that way. His legacy has nothing to do with how powerful his force abilities are, but who he is as a person.

Yes.

 

[wizards8507]

I disagree.

His defining character trait is his belief in people. The Emperor himself tells him his faith in his friends is his greatest weakness. He’s compassionate to a fault, he’s the only person in the galaxy that believes darth Vader is redeemable. And through the sheer power of will, he does in fact redeem Vader. And now you want me to believe THAT GUY seriously considers just killing a student because he senses some dark side tendencies. He hasn’t done anything wrong, mind you. Oh, and this is his best friends kid we’re talking about. And his nephew. Nope, just nope. Luke Skywalker wouldn’t behave that way. His legacy has nothing to do with how powerful his force abilities are, but who he is as a person.

Stopped they must be. On this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the Force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil.

Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.

Luke sucks.

 

[IrishLion]

Wiz gets it. That is kind of what I'm getting at... rather than following his training and listening to the wise master Jedi, he followed his feelings and ran off to save his friends, risking the entire point of why he was there to get himself trained in the first place.

Is it so crazy to think that Luke might follow his feelings to a fault again in the future? Aka, ALMOST make a really terrible decision to save everyone else from heartbreak?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Luke sucks.

Is that supposed to counter an argument?

Luke: “Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You have failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.”

Luke isn’t a great person. He’s the best person.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Is it so crazy to think that Luke might follow his feelings to a fault again in the future?

Yes, it is. He believes in people, over and over and over again. He will always be compassionate. He wouldn’t give up on Ben, he would do everything to save him.

 

[IrishLion]

Is that supposed to counter an argument?

Luke: “Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You have failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.”

Luke isn’t a great person. He’s the best person.

He has great faith in people, but that doesn't excuse his glaring character flaw, which is fear.

It's not so crazy to me that Luke would look at an academy full of teenagers and think "I might need to protect them by doing something I REALLY don't want to do."

 

[wizards8507]

He has great faith in people, but that doesn't excuse his glaring character flaw, which is fear.

It's not so crazy to me that Luke would look at an academy full of teenagers and think "I might need to protect them by doing something I REALLY don't want to do."

"Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless!"

 

[Domina Nostra]

Wiz gets it. That is kind of what I'm getting at... rather than following his training and listening to the wise master Jedi, he followed his feelings and ran off to save his friends, risking the entire point of why he was there to get himself trained in the first place.

Is it so crazy to think that Luke might follow his feelings to a fault again in the future? Aka, ALMOST make a really terrible decision to save everyone else from heartbreak?

Luke mellowed learned his less by RTJ and is a different man. He still needs to face Vader to become a true Jedi.

The trilogy peaks with Luke Skywalker about to strike down Darth Vader who has threatened his sister Leah. When he's about to kill him, he realizes that he is about to follow in his footsteps, so he puts down his lightsaber in front of the Emperor and refusing to fight and declares himself a true Jedi. The emperor then tortures him until Vader saves him. Luke and Anakin then reconcile. He achieves serenity, as is clear in the final celebration.

Sure, you could right a book where Luke regresses, and is just like everyone else. But in the original trilogy, that is not where Jedis go. Old Degobah Yoda, and old Tatooine Obi Wan, are the direction he should have been heading.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

He has great faith in people, but that doesn't excuse his glaring character flaw, which is fear.

It's not so crazy to me that Luke would look at an academy full of teenagers and think "I might need to protect them by doing something I REALLY don't want to do."

Fear? When does he show fear? Like when he flies into the Death Star trench alone, knowing it’s probably a suicide mission? Or when he went to rescue Leia on the Death Star, against Hans advice? Or the time he led the snowspeeder team against imperial walkers, even after his gunner gets killed? Or maybe that time he went to face Vader because his friends were being tortured? Or the time he goes into jabbas palace to rescue his best friend? If he had any fear, he would have ducked out any of those times. Fear is not a Luke Skywalker trait.

It isn’t AT ALL believeable that he would even consider killing Ben.

 

[wizards8507]

Luke mellowed learned his less by RTJ and is a different man.

What are you talking about? He legit tries to murder Palpatine in like the last scene of the movie.

"Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete."

Then Luke DOES take his weapon and he DOES try to strike Palps down with his hatred. The only reason he's not successful is because Anakin turns.

 

[Cackalacky]

He displayed zero prequel type Jedi traits during the entire ROTJ movie.

He force choked the Gamoreans
He threatened Jabba multiple times with death
He killed how many people on the barge (pre-meditated by the way)
Manipulated the Ewoks by making C3P0 into a god

Attempted to murder Palpatine
Drew on the dark side while battling Vader and only after looking at what he did to Vader did he finally resign that he was not going to achieve his failure in the cave during ESB. This occurred in the last 10 minutes of the movie.

Luke was literally Dark side the entire ROtJ LMAO

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[IrishLion]

Fear? When does he show fear? Like when he flies into the Death Star trench alone, knowing it’s probably a suicide mission? Or when he went to rescue Leia on the Death Star, against Hans advice? Or the time he led the snowspeeder team against imperial walkers, even after his gunner gets killed? Or maybe that time he went to face Vader because his friends were being tortured? Or the time he goes into jabbas palace to rescue his best friend? If he had any fear, he would have ducked out any of those times. Fear is not a Luke Skywalker trait.

It isn’t AT ALL believeable that he would even consider killing Ben.

Fear for the fate of his friends... just like the fear that fueled Anakin in the prequels and created Darth Vader.

Anakin did plenty of brave shit, as did Luke. That doesn’t mean they aren’t motivated by fear to a fault.

 

[gkIrish]

https://www.reddit.com/r/eve/comments/7kgw15/_/

Posting mainly to reiterate the problems with Leia and also to point out that yet again, the movie made me question the OT. Why the heck did no one lightsped through the death star core?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

He displayed zero prequel type Jedi traits during the entire ROTJ movie.

He force choked the Gamoreans
He threatened Jabba multiple times with death
He killed how many people on the barge (pre-meditated by the way)
Manipulated the Ewoks by making C3P0 into a god

Attempted to murder Palpatine

Gamorean Lives Matter

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Fear for the fate of his friends... just like the fear that fueled Anakin in the prequels and created Darth Vader.

Anakin did plenty of brave shit, as did Luke. That doesn’t mean they aren’t motivated by fear to a fault.

Dude, if you can’t tell the simple differences in motivations between Anakin and Luke, maybe the twilight saga is more your speed.

 

[Cackalacky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/eve/comments/7kgw15/_/

Posting mainly to reiterate the problems with Leia and also to point out that yet again, the movie made me question the OT. Why the heck did no one lightsped through the death star core?

You got me guy. I am still stuck on how Luke's photon torpoedoes made it to the core. Or Han navigated an asteroid field, or how the 2nd Death Star took just long enough to blow up to allow for a harrowing escape by the Falcon.

My only thoughts are the Purple head had a pair balls on her bigger than Poe's head.

 

[IrishLion]

https://www.reddit.com/r/eve/comments/7kgw15/_/

Why should Luke and Leia be flawless individuals?

The only truly pure character in the entire series is Obi Wan.

Leia and the Resistance lost the support of the Republic, because Imperial sympathizers and profiteers infiltrated the Republic and steered its interest away, convincing everyone that the First Order wasn’t a threat.

As soon as their super weapon is ready, the First Order eliminates the New Republic and puts the Resistance on immediate life support, showing that they are, in fact, a threat. That’s why Leia has no allies... Resistance appears to be futile.

 

[Cackalacky]

Dude, if you can’t tell the simple differences in motivations between Anakin and Luke, maybe the twilight saga is more your speed.

Meh maybe dial down the rhetoric a bit guy. Both Anakin and Luke were very afraid of losing thise closest to them. Fear leads to the dark side. Lo and behold both end up in the Dark Side.

 

[IrishLion]

Dude, if you can’t tell the simple differences in motivations between Anakin and Luke, maybe the twilight saga is more your speed.

Anakin was motivated to stop the death of his lover.

Luke was motivated to abandon his training, despite being told that he wasn’t ready explicitly, to save the lives of his friends.

Herp derp totally different motivations there.